Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[Philip Clark]

Got my hands on the CK yesterday at NAMM. Regarding the 61 key, frankly build quality is basically a YC61 with MX61 keybed. I guess a decent value. But I'd probably rather opt for the YC. I bought a YC 73 last year and have absolutely no buyer's remorse now that the CK series is out. 

It's unfortunate that Yamaha is phasing drums and percussion out of these instruments. I think that's a big miss. But they're "stage keyboards" so I get it.

[ElmerJFudd]

Woody has his hands on one.  Unboxed.  He’ll spend time on reface YC engine next episode. 
 

 

[ProfD]

Well, I'm not a YouTube influencer nor do I play one on the internet but I did manage to lay hands on the CK88 yesterday. 😁

 

The good news is that it does sound like a Yamaha YC/CP.  But, I'm not a fan of the CK88 build quality. The molded plastic feels cheap.

 

Otherwise, musicians who dig the Yamaha sound and prefer a light-weight KB will appreciate it as mentioned by those who've already bought it.

 

Personally, if I was buying a Yamaha, instead of a CK88, I would spend the extra money to get a MODX8+ or take a step backward and cop a MOXF8.

 

 Maybe I'll feel differently about the CK61. I'll report back after test driving it.😎

[ElmerJFudd]

17 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Woody has his hands on one.  Unboxed.  He’ll spend time on reface YC engine next episode. 
 

 

 

[Adan]

On 4/14/2023 at 6:14 PM, Philip Clark said:

 Regarding the 61 key, frankly build quality is basically a YC61 with MX61 keybed. I guess a decent value. 

Hopefully the keybed is at least slightly better than the MX61.  According to Yamaha, it is technically not the same keybed, though it might be very similar.

 

I'm considering the CK61 now because getting outdoor gig opportunities where battery power is, if not strictly necessary, at least very helpful.  (I would need a battery powered separate speaker too).  Something like the Casio might have better action than the CK, but it won't have the range of Yamaha APs and EPs, and just as importantly won't have the USB audio interface.

[ewall08530]

21 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

  This is a very good representation of some of the untweaked live set sounds, especially Piano, EP’s & Strings, Orchestra….  Unfortunately not much on the Reface organ section, 

and Woody used the wheel to try to change Leslie speeds so you really didn’t hear it. The Leslie slow/ fast & Brake are dedicated buttons, bottom left and can be assigned to the sustain pedal or wheel, but not in this case. 
  Later this week I will try to post a video of the Live Set Organ bank that I’ve been working on and used this past Saturday on a gig.  The production values won’t be this good but it may answer some questions that some may have as to if the Reface Organ with Rotary A & Rotary B will be “good enough”.  
 

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

  This is a very good representation of some of the untweaked live set sounds, especially Piano, EP’s & Strings, Orchestra….  Unfortunately not much on the Reface organ section, 

and Woody used the wheel to try to change Leslie speeds so you really didn’t hear it. The Leslie slow/ fast & Brake are dedicated buttons, bottom left and can be assigned to the sustain pedal or wheel, but not in this case. 
  Later this week I will try to post a video of the Live Set Organ bank that I’ve been working on and used this past Saturday on a gig.  The production values won’t be this good but it may answer some questions that some may have as to if the Reface Organ with Rotary A & Rotary B will be “good enough”.  
 

Since he said in the first video he’d be getting into the reface YC engine im thinking there will be a third video. Maybe he’ll pop in here to let us know when it’s up. 

[Rand L]

Good afternoon.  Havent posted in a while as my old account stopped working. I stopped by the Music Mill in Manchester NH yesterday, they actually have a pretty decent keyboard area.  Was interested in YC or a CP, but I played this CK88 and really enjoyed it.   Ive steered away from 88's because of the weight, but this is pretty light and costs less.  The organs would be a problem.   I have an electro 5D that could be a top board,  but in small gigs, I could bring an Ipad. Havent had a Yamaha in a while, so I am unfamiliar with it's midi CC mapping.  I can map out the B-3X with my Kurzweil, so the Yamaha CK88 would need to do the same or it's a no go.  Looking at the midi implementation specs, it's hard to tell, so hopefully someone can chime in.  Can the controllers be mapped to control the same functions in the B-3X? B-3X allows you to enter any control number on the ones it does have, and the CK manual shows CC numbers for A,B, and C. Hopefully this a all works.  

[Sam Mullins]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:21 AM, Sam Mullins said:

I got my CK88 yesterday and have a few quick impressions.

 

- The keybed is not great but usable; closer to the better GHS actions I played recently (P125, P45) and not like the horrible MX88 I played.  A little sluggish for my taste.  My initial reaction was pretty negative but after playing it for 30 minutes, I adjusted. 

- The user interface is really well done.  This has not always been a Yamaha strength (I had several Motif era keyboards and was well versed in the menu diving....I know, it's a more complicated engine but even simple things were often arduous).  Doing splits and layers is straightforward.  The color coding of the parts with effect chains is brilliant. 

- The sounds are generally very good.  I was also considering the YC73 but I think for my purposes the greatly expanded sound palette here is the right choice.   Yamaha tends to do a good job on many of the sounds I use frequently.  I would love a better organ but I have B3-X to fall back to.

- A nice variety of effects that are easily accessible and assigned to parts.  Having three insert effects per part is great.

- The build is what you would expect in this price class.  Would I love to have something in the YC73/Stage build quality (steel chassis, internal power, etc.)?  Sure, but that's not gonna happen at this price and (more important to me) weight.  

- I hooked up to my iPad and everything worked immediately...no fuss.  

 

Overall, this is another example of "Gosh I would have been ecstatic to get this much when I was a kid."  Having said that, I haven't made a final decision on whether I'm keeping it.  It's part of a larger rig overhaul I am considering to reduce weight (Stage 3 88/Kronos -> CK88/Arturia Keylab/iPad) and there are issues outside the CK88 that need to be resolved. 

 

I will have more time this weekend and will update with any additional feedback.

 

 

 

I've spent some more time on my CK88 and have a few more comments.  

 

- Will reiterate that I really like the interface for quickly setting up splits/layers and dialing in effects.  For simple setups, this is great.

 

- It would be nice to have more flexibility in allocating the three parts even if it required menu diving to do i.e. arbitrary key limits for each part would allow

           - overlapping parts

           - splits that don't have to occupy whole keyboard, which would let me use all three parts and cover "missing" key ranges with external sound sources. As it stands I have to sacrifice one part (actually assign the part and turn the volume to 0) to have an external only zone on the CK88 keyboard.

 

I understand this might conflict or complicate the front panel interface..although maybe it just means the split button has one more option in the screen that says "custom" and when that is selected, you have to go to menu to set key limits.

 

-  An easier enhancement that doesn't really require any changes to front panel interface:  It would be nice to be able to externally address the entire key range for each part on a separate MIDI channel.  As it is, you are playing the entire split/layer of the CK88 keyboard (with the option to defeat each part on from external triggering.)

 

- Minor annoyance is that all parts are sent through the master FX.  Many times I would like to not send a bass part through the reverb.  However, you have the choice of doing the reverb separately on each part using one of the insert FX...so in most cases a solvable problem.  

 

- Annoying (and arbitrary) that you can only shift each part -24 to +24.  Means sometimes if I have a split in the top couple octaves of the keyboard, I can't get the sound in the range I want.  Don't understand this one at all.

 

Most of this I can work around. 

 

On my larger project of replacing the Stage 2/Kronos with CK88/Arturia Keylab/iPad....I'm pretty close to declaring it doable.  My general strategy will be to cover as many songs as possible with just the CK88 (probably around 75%) and the rest of them will be augmented with iPad.  This means I can have plenty of material even if the iPad flakes out at some gig. 

 

I programmed one of my most complex songs with 11 splits/layers using only sounds from the iPad and both keyboards to control.  Works fine on an iPad pro using Camelot Pro and a few reliable plugins (Korg Module, B3-X, Mogg Model D, iSem, Koala)  Will definitely play a couple gigs with this setup before selling my Stage and Kronos ...but looking more likely than not.  My back is actively campaigning for this option

[Sam Mullins]

On 4/16/2023 at 4:42 PM, Rand L said:

Good afternoon.  Havent posted in a while as my old account stopped working. I stopped by the Music Mill in Manchester NH yesterday, they actually have a pretty decent keyboard area.  Was interested in YC or a CP, but I played this CK88 and really enjoyed it.   Ive steered away from 88's because of the weight, but this is pretty light and costs less.  The organs would be a problem.   I have an electro 5D that could be a top board,  but in small gigs, I could bring an Ipad. Havent had a Yamaha in a while, so I am unfamiliar with it's midi CC mapping.  I can map out the B-3X with my Kurzweil, so the Yamaha CK88 would need to do the same or it's a no go.  Looking at the midi implementation specs, it's hard to tell, so hopefully someone can chime in.  Can the controllers be mapped to control the same functions in the B-3X? B-3X allows you to enter any control number on the ones it does have, and the CK manual shows CC numbers for A,B, and C. Hopefully this a all works.  

 

I played briefly with trying to map the CC's to B3-X...drawbars aren't a problem.  However, one thing I did notice is that the Rotary Stop and Speed buttons both use CC = 9 with different values:

 

Slow: CC 9, value 0-63

Stop:  CC 9, value 64

Fast: CC 9, value 65-127

 

If you assign CC 9 to both Speed and Brake on B3-X, you don't get the behavior you want.   As I recall it will always go from Slow to Fast/w Stop on.   I suppose some plugin hosts (Keystage, AUM, Camelot) might be able to fix this problem with mapping magic...but if you are only running B3-X that seems like some bother.

 

Another issue is that it seems the organ section controls are only sent out if you have an organ part active (and presumably would have to have volume = 0 if you are using B3-X)

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[ewall08530]

I’ve made a few clips of the Hammond Live Sets I’ve tweaked and saved on my Yamaha CK-61.  I’m finding the organ section perfectly acceptable for my use as a lighter and less expensive version of the organ in my Stage 3 Compact.  

[ewall08530]

 

[ewall08530]

 

[ewall08530]

 

[AnotherScott]

There's room noise in the videos... am I correct then that that's the sound through the board's internal speakers?

[ewall08530]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

There's room noise in the videos... am I correct then that that's the sound through the board's internal speakers?

It was a combination of the CK speakers but also left output into a Bose S-1. 

[pjd]

8 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

I’ve made a few clips of the Hammond Live Sets I’ve tweaked and saved on my Yamaha CK-61.  I’m finding the organ section perfectly acceptable for my use as a lighter and less expensive version of the organ in my Stage 3 Compact.  

 

Pretty nice tone! Thank you for posting because this gives us a better idea of what real people can squeeze out of the CK.

 

I would be interested to know the registrations and effect settings --- so I can steal 'em and try to use 'em on MODX. 😃

 

Thanks, again -- pj

 

[RandyFF]

Question: it doesn't have a dedicated mic input, but a few folks said you could use the USB audio/MIDI interface?  Or AD inputs?  How would this work?

 

Always envious when we get to this point where folks are getting their boards!

 

I’m with you AS and others, a 73/6 note version would be ideal!!!!  That should help me from developing GAS for a board that I don't absolutely need to have!  I guess in the world of inexpensive, 61 wins out, but seriously, with few exceptions, I ALWAYS want the 73/76 board.

 

 

[Sam Mullins]

10 hours ago, RandyFF said:

Question: it doesn't have a dedicated mic input, but a few folks said you could use the USB audio/MIDI interface?  Or AD inputs?  How would this work?

.

 

 

The audio A/D input has L and R jacks. You would use the L jack for mono input. There is a menu setting for mic versus line level input and also a gain trim pot in the back.  Haven’t tried it yet but I’m guessing it works fine. 

 

Edit:  a couple more notes

- no phantom power (in case that's not obvious)

- there is a dedicated "INPUT" button on the front panel which brings up a menu where you can specify:

      - Volume

      - Input Effect 1 and 2 (so dedicated effects for the A/D input)

      - Input EQ

      - Noise Gate parameters

 

Pretty nice touch on a board at this level.

 

 

[Garubi]

21 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

I’ve made a few clips of the Hammond Live Sets I’ve tweaked and saved on my Yamaha CK-61.  I’m finding the organ section perfectly acceptable for my use as a lighter and less expensive version of the organ in my Stage 3 Compact.  

Thank you, much appreciated!

[Sunlight2]

From what I'm hearing the organ in the CK would be fine for jazz/light organ duties, but it's going to struggle in any sort of classic rock setting.

[ewall08530]

2 hours ago, Sunlight2 said:

From what I'm hearing the organ in the CK would be fine for jazz/light organ duties, but it's going to struggle in any sort of classic rock setting.

I’m not sure that is the case.   The next chance I get I’ll dial up some more overdrive and grit and try some things   

 

[SonicKeysII]

I played the CK88 at my local Guitar Center for a little over half an hour while standing up which was awkward.  Wasn't in love with the action for playing rock piano.  Perhaps, I could get used to it.  Don't think so.  i have a Yamaha P125 and the action is different, i.e., better for piano playing.  I used to have a MOX88 and the action was different, i.e., better for piano playing.  And I used to have an S-90 and the action was different, i.e., better for piano playing.  My focus is now on whether I want to buy the CK61 as a top board or continue using my Roland VR-09 as a top board.  I am still in the market for a new light weight hammer action bottom board which is either 88 keys or 73 keys.  The Numa X 73 interests me.  I don't think that the action on the CK88 cuts it for me which is a shame.  I would have walked out of the store with one in hand if I had taken a liking to the action.   If money was no object, i would buy a Nord Stage 4 Compact as a second tier board and find a new weighted action board to use as a first tier board. 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, SonicKeysII said:

If money was no object, i would buy a Nord Stage 4 Compact as a second tier board and find a new weighted action board to use as a first tier board. 

You could put a weighted action board under the CK61 or VR09, of course. Both allow you to play a sound locally while playing another sound from the lower board.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[allan_evett]

2 hours ago, SonicKeysII said:

I played the CK88 at my local Guitar Center for a little over half an hour while standing up which was awkward.  Wasn't in love with the action for playing rock piano.  Perhaps, I could get used to it.  Don't think so.  i have a Yamaha P125 and the action is different, i.e., better for piano playing.  I used to have a MOX88 and the action was different, i.e., better for piano playing.  And I used to have an S-90 and the action was different, i.e., better for piano playing...  ...I don't think that the action on the CK88 cuts it for me which is a shame.  I would have walked out of the store with one in hand if I had taken a liking to the action.  

One of my students tried the CK88 this past weekend, and had a similar experience.  He plays on a P45 at our studio, which has the same GHS action; but he said it felt sub-standard to that. Too bad that many others have been reporting similar experiences. He has played the RD88 for comparison, and feels the action is much stronger.  Not surprising, as I also find the PH4 in the RD88 satisfying to play. I just wish its interface was as well layed out as that of the CK88. 

[aronnelson]

Is the RD-88 similar to the Korg RH3? Which one feels heavier to play?

[Fleer]

On 4/18/2023 at 10:21 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

 

That’s a pretty amazing showcase. 

[pawelsz]

15 hours ago, aronnelson said:

Is the RD-88 similar to the Korg RH3? Which one feels heavier to play?

I would say Roland feels heavier. But should be compared side by side. 

[16251]

sidebar: I just called closest Guitar Center (Danvers, MA,) person said he could help after asking to talk to keyboard specialist. He came back to me to say they that two CK88s. I asked if one was set up, he said they came in yesterday so they are "probably" in boxes. I asked to be transferred to keyboards, he said they were too busy, so I said, hey I just want to know if one is set up so I could go there.  He said it's 98% sure that they are still in box. I asked are you sure? he said: No.  I thanked him.