Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[ElmerJFudd]

This one went up recently, MIDI control on the CK. 

 

 

 

[SonicKeysII]

I bought the Yamaha SC-DE88.  It is fairly light and does not offer a lot of protection for the board.  On the other hand, it fits in my back seat.  i carry my own boards and for my purposes, I think it is fine.  It has more padding than my Privia case which is lighter and more compact.  The heavier duty cases tend to be bigger and heavier.  

[drawback]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:17 PM, Adan said:

On a recent gig I had VB3 running through the CK61 and could easily switch back and forth between VB3 and the internal hammond sound. 

Have you mapped any controls other than drawbars to VB3? Do switches (such as rotary speed, percussion, ch/vib) send out cc messages? I don’t have a CK61 yet, and the owners’ manual is comprehensive but confusing. 

[ImproKeys]

On 6/4/2023 at 1:07 PM, ImproKeys said:

I just tested it with the app Midiscope. The CK61 transmits drawbar CCs when you activate at least one slot with an organ patch in it. You must then turn down the volume of the internal sound to only hear your B3x and others.

Rotary speed and stop also transmit CC.

Vibrato und Percussion indeed only transmit sysex messages.

 

[drawback]

Thanks (again, 😉) I completely forgot I’d asked the question and received the answer! 

[LarsHarner2]

I have a gator hard shell case that probably weighs almost as much as the keyboard; it has memory foam which is nice. 

After 2 months, I enjoy playing the board and actually use my extra 3.5" monitors with it .

My honest review is they could have but more effort into the hammond. Other than that the controls and being able to blend sounds is fantastic. 

[Charleston]

Did anyone download the free Live Set Pack from Yamaha?

I bought the CK88, and when I clicked the link in the email from Yamaha it went to "access denied".

Just curious what it sounded like. 

And btw, anyone have trouble seeing the interface (buttons/knobs/etc..) in a darker setting? The button lights are kind of blaring, while hiding/over-contrasting the tiny text. I wish the lights could be dimmed (or can they?). Maybe it's just my eyes though.

The screen itself is nice. 

I may give more of a review later. Sounds good so far though. 

[Charleston]

I meant to say.... does anyone have trouble seeing the printed text on the interface?

[CHarrell]

I know whachu mean. I've only played it in well lit environments, but in a stage setting I can totally imagine some of the text being very difficult to read.

[Tiff_Sunbacon]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:27 PM, Charleston said:

And btw, anyone have trouble seeing the interface (buttons/knobs/etc..) in a darker setting? The button lights are kind of blaring, while hiding/over-contrasting the tiny text. I wish the lights could be dimmed (or can they?). Maybe it's just my eyes though.

Whilst the colour 'coding' on different parts is, frankly, inspired, I agree that in low light environments they are bright. Also, I find that the default yellow on Part A appears red in my peripheral vision, which is a little distracting. To handle this I changed it to magenta but there doesn't seem to be a way to save that to the default colour because when I powered off and back on again, part A was back to yellow.

[Tiff_Sunbacon]

On 6/1/2023 at 5:38 PM, mrk7421 said:

I liked the Wurli... but could not get tremolo for some reason.

Tremolo is under Effects >  'Trm/Rtr

[Outkaster]

My other keyboard player just got one of these yesterday.

[allan_evett]

19 hours ago, Charleston said:

Did anyone download the free Live Set Pack from Yamaha?

I bought the CK88, and when I clicked the link in the email from Yamaha it went to "access denied"....

 

I had the same experience. I sent an email to customer support shortly after that, but haven't received a response. 

 

Meanwhile I've been organizing sounds on the CK88, a lot of tweaking factory presets and optimizing several Live Sets for some upcoming gigs. While a lot of the presets are quite good, some basic editing really brings this instrument out.  This will be a very practical tool as I work it into my live rig.

[Sam Mullins]

1 hour ago, allan_evett said:

IMeanwhile I've been organizing sounds on the CK88, a lot of tweaking factory presets and optimizing several Live Sets for some upcoming gigs. While a lot of the presets are quite good, some basic editing really brings this instrument out.  This will be a very practical tool as I work it into my live rig.

And isn't it nice how easy it is!  As someone who was a long time user of Motif/S series keyboards (and the requisite archaic menu diving)  and then defected to Kronos (when Montage crippled their MIDI capabilities compared to Motif)...I have to give Yamaha credit on the vast user interface improvements.  I do understand that it is a simpler beast so easier to accommodate dedicated controls.  But I'll also say that I like the interface better than the Nord Stage 2/3's that I used for years.  

 

[Charleston]

3 hours ago, allan_evett said:

I had the same experience. I sent an email to customer support shortly after that, but haven't received a response. 

Great! Please let us know if you hear back from them.

[CHarrell]

2 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

And isn't it nice how easy it is!  As someone who was a long time user of Motif/S series keyboards (and the requisite archaic menu diving)  and then defected to Kronos (when Montage crippled their MIDI capabilities compared to Motif)...I have to give Yamaha credit on the vast user interface improvements.  I do understand that it is a simpler beast so easier to accommodate dedicated controls.  But I'll also say that I like the interface better than the Nord Stage 2/3's that I used for years.  

 

 

Agreed! And the CK has the best interface of the CP/YC line, too. Now it wasn't for that GHS bed....

[Charleston]

7 hours ago, Tiff_Sunbacon said:

Whilst the colour 'coding' on different parts is, frankly, inspired, I agree that in low light environments they are bright. Also, I find that the default yellow on Part A appears red in my peripheral vision, which is a little distracting. To handle this I changed it to magenta but there doesn't seem to be a way to save that to the default colour because when I powered off and back on again, part A was back to yellow.

Do you know if there is a way to change the default colors? 

Seems as though, as of now, it has to be done per live set? (If so, that's really annoying).

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, CHarrell said:

Agreed! And the CK has the best interface of the CP/YC line, too. Now it wasn't for that GHS bed....

Better than some of the alternatives imho (although tastes vary of course). And the CK61 beats the crappy Krome/DS/MODX 61-key actions. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Tripp323]

How does CK-61 keys work for playing piano?  Compared with SL Numa x 73?

 

everyone has different opinions about keybeds. I like the CK-61 (light-weight!) but Numa X 73 has weighted keys -

   Your comments are helpful - checked a few stores near me, and these keyboards were not available for a test drive.

Thx

 

[CHarrell]

1 hour ago, Tripp323 said:

Compared with SL Numa x 73?

 

everyone has different opinions about keybeds. I like the CK-61 (light-weight!) but Numa X 73 has weighted keys -

   Your comments are helpful - checked a few stores near me, and these keyboards were not available for a test drive.

Thx

 

Other than the very hard bottoming on the Numa X (members here think it might be the aftertouch), it feels really nice and responsive. It's a pretty light and fast action.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Tripp323 said:

How does CK-61 keys work for playing piano?  

Out of the box, I thought it was pretty terrible. But if you tweak the velocity parameters within the particular Live Set, it can actually feel surprisingly good.

 

2 hours ago, Tripp323 said:

Compared with SL Numa x 73?

I haven't played it, but while the CK61 can be pretty good, I think it would take a pretty bad hammer action board to not be able to beat it.

[Adan]

12 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Out of the box, I thought it was pretty terrible. But if you tweak the velocity parameters within the particular Live Set, it can actually feel surprisingly good.

 

I had not tried that yet.  Yes, that's makes a big difference.  Even so, when it comes to piano technique, comparing the CK61 (or any semi-weighted) to hammer action is apples and organges.

[Prizm]

On 6/29/2023 at 6:19 PM, Tiff_Sunbacon said:

Also, I find that the default yellow on Part A appears red in my peripheral vision, which is a little distracting. 

 

I just got a CK88 and this was the first thing I noticed when turning it on. If I scan my eyes back and forth across the controls, the default yellow LED lights leave a red and green trail in my vision. It was quite distracting. It's like they're poor quality LEDs and/or the flicker rate is too low or something, because the raw red/green/blue aspect of the LED is too visible (in peripheral vision when looking around).

 

This was in a bedroom at night though, so not full daylight.
 

I might send something to Yamaha in case it's something they can fix with firmware (along with a brightness option for the LEDs which some people have mentioned).

[Charleston]

If anyone was interested, I was just checking the speaker volume (and bass) of the CK88 vs the P-125.

If you have a P-125, first put the piano on variation 1 (Live Grand).

Then put the volume on around 7.5 (using the 11 dots, and counting the first dot on the left as 1).

That will be the closest to volume and bass, although the CK88 will still have a little less bass ..... and more crispy highs.

The sound of the CK88 speakers are decent enough for quick solo practice in a completely quiet environment. Kinda low volume/bass. Bluetooth audio sounds okay coming through it. PC audio sounds decent enough. You can get a quick jam in, but yeah, nothing like the P-125 speakers.

 

I'm still concerned about the button lights, and may return it. I like to play at night, in low lighting, and knowing that I have to crank up my room lighting like a cafeteria,..... or use my portable music stand light every time is not something I enjoy. I keep thinking that maybe I'll memorize where everything is and not need to look very much? I assume we won't hear from Yamaha about possible lighting changes before my return window, so ...oh well....

 

And another thing I forgot to mention earlier on lighting is that you can't see what current category you are in, with heavy or low room lighting. Not a huge thing, but when you look down to see what category you're in, you ain't gonna see it. 

 

I think it's ironic that one of the purposes/advantages of this really cool UI is for quick sound creation/improv/etc.. on the fly, on stage and such, but the button lights will probably make that very difficult for those that aren't playing where lighting is hitting that interface. Seems like, at the moment, you need to setup your live sets ahead of time, and just have the effects/layers ready to turn off/on (which you could do with about any board).

[drawback]

Until Yamaha gives you an option to change button lighting intensity, tape them off with masking tape. The light will still shine through, but limited. You can use different colours of tape to modify the colours too.

[ESFlash]

I so wanted the CK88 to work out and hadn't been excited about a gear purchase in ages.

 

My main gig setup is an ancient Casio PX330 thru a SpaceStation V3 and an SK1 (the original model) thru a Fender Rumble 100.

 

No issues with that setup, the action on the 330 is terrific ...... quick, responsive and the piano and ep sounds are excellent for the blues, rock and country gigs I play. I often run the 330 into a small stereo graphic before it hits the SpaceStation.

 

The SK1 is 99% only for organ, B3 and TexMex Vox/Farf; I even installed a half-moon switch on the SK, and it's a rockin lightweight board that sounds better to me going thru the Rumble than it does plugged into the SpaceStation. I also have a Kawai upright US60 in the house.

 

The CK88 with it's amazing interface, layer/split capabilities and drawbars caught my attention and I ordered one. I  saw plenty of videos, downloaded the manual and felt "up to speed" when it arrived. The master plan: turn my two keyboard setup into a single board for most gigs.

 

After a day playing the CK88, I arranged to send it back.

 

The two main deal killers: the action and the acoustic piano sounds.

 

ACTION

 

The CK88 action felt stiff and slow, especially the treble, which seemed quite uneven. I needed quite a lot of effort to play this thing.

 

And, it was difficult to get fast treble passages to speak evenly, and this was not the case on either the PX330 or the Kawai (and yes, not fair to compare the real piano action of the US60 with the CK88 ...... but still, that little PX330 does a solid job on the action front when compared to the US60).  Anyway, I changed the CK88 touch response; 4 choices there, normal, soft, hard & wide, no help and very little difference in how my playing affected the output.

 

So more then anything, the action killed the deal.

 

SOUNDS

 

The acoustic piano sounds didn't do it for me at all. I tweaked them and made some decent edits that I felt could work. The editing, BTW, is pretty terrific along with the efx section and the way various unison's can be dialed in is ultra cool. However, when it came to piano sounds and how it all felt .... not happening.

 

The B3 sound even with the short drawbars, wasn't bad but as others have reported, the Leslie is a bit shabby. Rotary B is the better and more usable of the two choices. There's not much in terms of parameters you can adjust on the Leslie settings. The Farf and Vox organs sounded pretty cool. One thing tho, that  I couldn't get to work after splitting the keyboard into a piano on the left and a B3 on the right, was getting the FC7 expression pedal to only affect the organ and not the entire output. There's prbly a way to do that, I cldn't make that happen.

 

The EPs worked, and after tweaking and messing with them, gave me some cool sounds especially with the auto-wahs
 

One other thing --- the built in speakers --- don't expect much, weak and thin..

 

CONCLUSION

 

The overall interface and layout --- wow --- terrific. I think this is board that can be a superstar for many folks . . . . just not for me.

 

My guess: this is the first iteration of this keyboard and hopefully Yamaha can produce a model with a quick, light and responsive action and better sounding acoustic pianos. Also, some Leslie control adjustments would be an excellent addition, and if the drawbar throw could be lengthened that would be cool. And if there's a way, when splitting the keyboard into two zones, to only have the expression pedal work on the organ volume and not globally on the entire keyboard, that would be excellent --- this parameter might already be there, I cldn't find it.

 

All in all, I was quite disappointed that this didn't work out for me and having to return the CK88.

 

 

[Charleston]

3 hours ago, drawback said:

Until Yamaha gives you an option to change button lighting intensity, tape them off with masking tape. The light will still shine through, but limited. You can use different colours of tape to modify the colours too.

Unfortunately there is no way to know if Yamaha can.... or will.... change anything regarding button lighting. 

Thanks for the idea, but as far as masking tape: 1) Some of the buttons have text on them. 2) Having only one color would defeat the primary benefit of the colors changing depending on the layer chosen. 3) Not sure if I want all that tape all over that many buttons.

But yeah, as a last resort taping up everything could be done I guess.

[pianopappa]

Hi. My first post here… finding the discussion very helpful!

 

Just got a ck88, test driving it, really liking it. Most likely a keeper.

 

Re: button colors, I too was disappointed to find it was not a global setting! Not looking forward to setting it for every Live Set individually (but i probably will). Anyone know an easy workaround?

 

as for the colors, I was also concerned about their brightness, not wanting the glare to compromise readability of everything else. To mitigate the issue, I changed yellow to red, which is darker than yellow. I have to assume that all the colors are being mixed with combinations of the red/green/blue primary color lights. So if each of the 3 buttons are using just 1 of those 3 primaries, they should be the dimmest and least problematic ones, e.g. no weirdness with yellow sometimes flashing red and/or green. Anyway, I’m finding red, blue, and green for parts A, B, C to be working well for me so far.

[Sam Mullins]

15 hours ago, pianopappa said:

Re: button colors, I too was disappointed to find it was not a global setting! Not looking forward to setting it for every Live Set individually (but i probably will). Anyone know an easy workaround?

I would:

- make a live set that you use as a template with the colors you want (different from Init Sound),

- call that live set up when you want to create a new one

- make your changes for that live set, rename, and save to a new live set slot

 

[pianopappa]

6 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

I would:

- make a live set that you use as a template with the colors you want (different from Init Sound),

- call that live set up when you want to create a new one

- make your changes for that live set, rename, and save to a new live set slot

 

Smart. At least that covers the newly added live sets going forward. 
 

For existing presets, guess I’ll just modify the ones I like and expect to use.