Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[mrk7421]

I have been playing a CK88 a few times at a local music store...

 

Has any else commented that the CHORUS VIBRATO settings have vibrato on the percussion? The same issue the Roland VR09 had.

 

I guess Yamaha just doesn't get organ. I was surprised when Roland did it.

 

 

[mrk7421]

Also... I did like the pianos. The CFX sample sounds pretty good...also like Warm CFX. The 1973 Rhodes is nice and I liked the Wurli... but could not get tremolo for some reason.

 

Still am not sure what the difference in the CFX sample is between CK models and CP4, P 515, Montage etc. But I do think it sounds good. Overall.... a

lot going on and almost a Nord Stage Killer given the price. The Nord probably has better action.

 

What I would do is get the 61 and use another  88 controller.... use the 61 for portable applications rehearsals etc.

 

 

[Tripp323]

Nord stage killer?  CK-88 at $1.5K sounds good…. But the smaller CK 61 has the synth key action?

So …. Yamaha sells the P121 - a 73-key weighted keyboard. ($1K).

Yamaha also sells the CK-61 (not weighted! $1K) and the CK-88 (weighted, $1.5K, large!)

  Where is the portable CK-73 with weighted keys and the CK-61 guts. priced at $1300 vs SL Numa x 73 ?

Let us small-gig/couch-players know know what you think of playing pianos on the CK-61.

[ImproKeys]

24 minutes ago, Tripp323 said:

 

Let us small-gig/couch-players know know what you think of playing pianos on the CK-61.

It is possible. For me its working better than on my MODX 7.

[drawback]

On 5/5/2023 at 7:12 AM, AnotherScott said:

 

Since for some reason Yamaha is resistant to sending MIDI CC from the non-drawbar controls (percussion, CV), it would be nice if any of these apps would let you enter sysex strings (or better yet, learn them the way they can often learn CCs). I wonder why nobody supports that?

Is this the case? No MIDI CC to control B-3X parameters other than drawbars? I've been thinking about exchanging my VOX Conti for one, as the VOX is abysmal at MIDI controllability, but at least it has a quality 73 note keyboard and a good build in its favour. 

[ImproKeys]

18 hours ago, drawback said:

Is this the case? No MIDI CC to control B-3X parameters other than drawbars? I've been thinking about exchanging my VOX Conti for one, as the VOX is abysmal at MIDI controllability, but at least it has a quality 73 note keyboard and a good build in its favour. 

I just tested it with the app Midiscope. The CK61 transmits drawbar CCs when you activate at least one slot with an organ patch in it. You must then turn down the volume of the internal sound to only hear your B3x and others.

Rotary speed and stop also transmit CC.

Vibrato und Percussion indeed only transmit sysex messages.

[kenheeter]

You can easily map other controls on the YC to control non drawbar settings in B3X. I just printed a few labels for the buttons that I programmed.

[drawback]

30 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

You can easily map other controls on the YC to control non drawbar settings in B3X. I just printed a few labels for the buttons that I programmed.

Hi Ken - was talking about the CK - was that what you meant? 
 

[drawback]

2 hours ago, ImproKeys said:

I just tested it with the app Midiscope. The CK61 transmits drawbar CCs when you activate at least one slot with an organ patch in it. You must then turn down the volume of the internal sound to only hear your B3x and others.

Rotary speed and stop also transmit CC.

Vibrato und Percussion indeed only transmit sysex messages.

Same thing on the Vox.

[AnotherScott]

5 minutes ago, drawback said:

Same thing on the Vox.

Vox is even worse here... the CV and percussion functions are merely on/off. There is no MIDI command at all (CC or sysex) to access their individual parameters. The only way to get, for example, 2nd vs. 3rd percussion is to recall a preset that has that percussion.

[drawback]

I had a look at the CK61 yesterday and was quite pleasantly surprised. Nice action (better IIRC than the YC61), typically fine in the AP and extra sounds, limited in choice on the EPs but the ‘78 is probably enough to keep me satisfied. Organ is better than expected, but was hoping for more thorough MIDI controllability to run B-3x. Great interface and connectivity. A quality 73 waterfall would be icing on the cake and I’d trade the Vox for it in a second.

[AnotherScott]

23 minutes ago, drawback said:

I had a look at the CK61 yesterday and was quite pleasantly surprised. Nice action (better IIRC than the YC61), typically fine in the AP and extra sounds, limited in choice on the EPs but the ‘78 is probably enough to keep me satisfied. Organ is better than expected, but was hoping for more thorough MIDI controllability to run B-3x. Great interface and connectivity. A quality 73 waterfall would be icing on the cake and I’d trade the Vox for it in a second.

Yeah, Vox has the better action, and (IMO) often the better sounds, but the CK is a lot more functional overall. I wish Korg had built on the VC concept, instead of seemingly abandoning it.

[JohnH]

On 5/20/2023 at 9:07 AM, mrk7421 said:

I ordered a CK88 on Amazon for $ 999.00. Well of course this order got screwed up. The order went to a music store in MIssouri  called Palen Music and they refused to honor this order.

 

My first experience with Amazon. What a nightmare trying to communicate with them. Not sure where my money went at this point.

 

I could possibly start another thread about dealing with Amazon. When you call customer service you get the somebody in the Phillipines with very thick accents...

 

Businesses are closing all around me and one very possible reason is because it is cheaper to buy things on Amazon. My trustworthy local auto parts store is going out of business....Amazon has certainly affected this.

 

When it comes to customer service , Amazon sucks. To talk to them you have to Log in with passwords ....security codes....and trying to figure out what they are even saying through bad phone connections and thick accents

 

I made a huge mistake trying to snag a bargain on this. Lesson learned!

 

 

This is very strange and I just checked and it's now fixed.There is no $999.00 CK88 on Amazon as of today- 6/5/2023. I am sorry this happened. If you see something selling as brand new $500 below MAP than what it is selling at all other well known dealers (such as GC, MF, Sweetwater, etc ) then it is an error .

[LarsHarner2]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:18 AM, drawback said:

I had a look at the CK61 yesterday and was quite pleasantly surprised. Nice action (better IIRC than the YC61), typically fine in the AP and extra sounds, limited in choice on the EPs but the ‘78 is probably enough to keep me satisfied. Organ is better than expected, but was hoping for more thorough MIDI controllability to run B-3x. Great interface and connectivity. A quality 73 waterfall would be icing on the cake and I’d trade the Vox for it in a second.

I like the '78 as well and added some phaser to it. I am pleased so far on what it offers me, i would say the Organs could be better, but I have been able to get some decent drawbar setting on it.

Also, as I mentioned elsewhere you can add to the audio output level which in turn will make the speakers louder in addition to the volume slider.

[Rand L]

On 6/4/2023 at 7:07 AM, ImproKeys said:

I just tested it with the app Midiscope. The CK61 transmits drawbar CCs when you activate at least one slot with an organ patch in it. You must then turn down the volume of the internal sound to only hear your B3x and others.

Rotary speed and stop also transmit CC.

Vibrato und Percussion indeed only transmit sysex messages.

Instead of dealing with needing to ensure internal organ is turned down, copy a single or split organ  live set to a user page.  In this new patch, turn on Master controler and set zones and midi channels, then go to external keyboard and under the part letter you are controlling the external, set it to external only. Save. The CC number for part volume is 12 for Part A.  In B-3X enter 12 under master volume.  Its best to choose a different Midi channel other than 1 in the zone and in the external.  

[HSS]

It's not a deal breaker for me but when I quickly perused the CK's user manual I didn't see anything about string resonance for the piano samples.  Do the CK's have it?  My Yamaha P121 does so it would be a little surprising to me if the CK's don't.

[ewall08530]

6 hours ago, HSS said:

It's not a deal breaker for me but when I quickly perused the CK's user manual I didn't see anything about string resonance for the piano samples.  Do the CK's have it?  My Yamaha P121 does so it would be a little surprising to me if the CK's don't.

Page 164. Acoustic Simulator 

[HSS]

2 hours ago, ewall08530 said:

Page 164. Acoustic Simulator 

Thanks!  I missed it.

 

I need bifocals. Hopefully man-sized diapirs are still a few years down the road.

[pawelsz]

1 hour ago, HSS said:

Thanks!  I missed it.

 

I need bifocals. Hopefully man-sized diapirs are still a few years down the road.

 

Hey, those are Casio specs, not Yamaha.

[Sam Mullins]

10 hours ago, HSS said:

It's not a deal breaker for me but when I quickly perused the CK's user manual I didn't see anything about string resonance for the piano samples.  Do the CK's have it?  My Yamaha P121 does so it would be a little surprising to me if the CK's don't.

 

[HSS]

2 hours ago, Sam Mullins said:

 

Thanks. So I might have been originally correct that no specific string resonance effect is available for the piano samples on the CK's, only damper resonance. 

 

Could the CK's "Harmonic Enhancer" which creates harmonic overtones be an effect that is roughly equivalent to string resonance if it's dialed in correctly?  Sorry if that's a stupid question which I excel at.  

 

FWIW... Here is the spec page 25 from the P125-121 manual which explicitly shows string resonance (outlined in red).

[Mighty Motif Max]

I had the opportunity to spend a good hour or so with a CK88 last week. General thoughts are that the pianos are very nice (I love the U1 upright), the '78 and '73 Rhodes are both very good, the overall UI is excellent, and the keybed feels pretty good as well - standard GHS. The organs are more than good enough for the average keys gig - certainly an improvement over the Montage/MODX or PC4 organs, but not quite to the level of the Fantom VTW organs IMO. I find the leslie sim to be pretty good as well - sure, it's no SK Pro, but it's really not bad at all.

 

I'm not much of a fan of the included orchestral sounds - especially the strings and brass. Some of those are pulled straight from the CVP-305-era (2004) Clavinova soundset - they're not terrible but I feel like Yamaha could have at least included the orchestral samples from the MX series instead. So that's a bit of a letdown. I would also like to see more clavinet pickup options - neither of the existing two are what I would use for my go-to clavinet (which is an DA combination).

 

I like the user interface - I think they took some of the nicer aspects of Nord's UI and made things much more accessible from the front panel - people have always complained about menu diving with Yamaha boards, and while yes, there is some menu diving for some features, most of what you need is on the front panel. The built-in speakers are a nice extra for monitoring and such, if a little lacking in low end.

 

My verdict? A heck of a stage piano for a pretty reasonable price - this is definitely what I am going to push for when our campus ministry upgrades our old Casio.

[ewall08530]

3 hours ago, pawelsz said:

 

Hey, those are Casio specs, not Yamaha.

Grrrr.  You’re right. I brought up the wrong manual.  Sowie….

[Justin Havu]

GC in Boston had both the 88 and the 61.  Acoustic and electric pianos sounded great.  The organ, however, left a lot to be desired.  Perhaps I've set my expectations way higher than I should have, I know.

 

Action was nice on both of them, from what I remember (I was down there a week and a half ago.).  Same keybed on the 61 as the MODX6/7, I'm presuming.  As a MODX7 owner, I don't mind the keybed.  It would be interesting to A/B the 88 action to my RD-1000, as that is where I find the most comfort in terms of playability.

[Adan]

On a recent gig I had VB3 running through the CK61 and could easily switch back and forth between VB3 and the internal hammond sound.  While VB3 is clearly more authentic regarding the ancilliary stuff -- leslie sim, chorus, percussion, key click, the CK's native organ has a warmer, heftier tone.   I ended up sticking with the native rather than VB3 just because I liked the basic tone better.  This just confirms what I already knew about the CK's strengths and weaknesses, but it was interesting to gig test it and see where I came down on that particular gig where organ was mostly being used as a pad, not a lead instrument.

[ImproKeys]

On 6/7/2023 at 1:59 AM, justin_havu said:

Same keybed on the 61 as the MODX6/7, I'm presuming.  

No, definitely a different keybed. According to some information on the net it is a newly developed one - even if this is not true, I can tell from first hand experience it is not the same.

[Fleer]

3 hours ago, ImproKeys said:

No, definitely a different keybed. According to some information on the net it is a newly developed one - even if this is not true, I can tell from first hand experience it is not the same.

That’s the reason I got the CK61. Didn’t care for the MODX (6 and 7) keybeds. Too flimsy and too much horizontal movement. The keybed on the new CK61 is FSB. Pretty good. 

[ImproKeys]

5 hours ago, Fleer said:

That’s the reason I got the CK61. Didn’t care for the MODX (6 and 7) keybeds. Too flimsy and too much horizontal movement. The keybed on the new CK61 is FSB. Pretty good. 

Exactly!

[SonicKeysII]

I ended up buying the CK88, even after my initial concerns over its keybed.  Judgment call.  My Roland VR09 has a better violin sound for country fiddle and my Privia PXS 560 has better banjo sounds.  It matters for both of my bands.  My VR09 is probably a better board for Hammond organ and better as a top board IMO.  The synths, pianos and electric pianos on the CK88 are very good and justify the purchase.  I purchased the Yamaha case and it fits across my backseat with just enough room.  I doubt I will be able to squeeze this board into the back of my SUV without folding the seat down which I am able to do with my Privia board and my Yamaha P125.   We will see.  Now I know why Casio makes its boards so narrow.  It facilitates loading them in and out of a small SUV.  It is more than a gimmick.   

[Bobby Simons]

14 hours ago, SonicKeysII said:

 I purchased the Yamaha case and it fits across my backseat with just enough room. . .

Which case did you get, is there a model number?