Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, The_Star_Guy said:

I also think that given the interface flexibility and wide sonic palette of this board it works exceedingly well as a "live" top board over just about any kind of bottom board workstation or slab piano.

 

I've ended up using it for the reverse.... as a bottom when I'm specifically looking to go as small, as light, as fast to setup as possible. For my purposes, it has too many limitations as a top. Specifically, not being able to pan sounds (making in not work for me for my LH bass gigs, unless I can switch my LH bass to a bottom), and not easy enough to navigate to a saved sound in real-time unless you've written down where it is (i.e. no search facility, and as far as I've seen, unlike the YC, no screen that will show you which sounds are currently assigned to the 8 live set buttons, meaning you kind of have to scroll through each sound to find what you want). Patch navigation isn't a big  problem for me on a bottom board, because I don't use it for that many sounds. But on the top board, I have lots more sounds I need to be able to navigate through. The more sounds you're using a board for, the more you need efficient navigation.

[LarsHarner2]

6 hours ago, The_Star_Guy said:

 

I think that the cost/value relationship 0f the CK-61 key version is excellent in general.    I also think that given the interface flexibility and wide sonic palette of this board it works exceedingly well as a "live" top board over just about any kind of bottom board workstation or slab piano.  In that scenario the CK 61 would be preferable.

Agreed- for me it was the allure of getting something ~12 pounds, built in speakers, option for batteries and and drawbars and other things- I am finding it fun to play so far.

In no way are the B3's like IK or Arturia VST's but as a whole the board is a enjoyable experience. 

[ewall08530]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:45 PM, APP said:

The CK88 is currently being discounted by $200 by the major retailers.

Seems unusual for a recently introduced board, no? Perhaps an update on the way?

That’s all I was waiting for!

    I have a CK 88 coming from Sweetwater this week. I’ve owned the CK 61 since April so I’m familiar with the sounds, interface, strengths and weaknesses and the CK 61 is a great light, cheap alternative to my Nord Stage 3 Compact.  
  I’m hoping I can get on with weighted action on the CK 88. If so, I’ll be listing my Nord Stage 2 HA76 + hard case.  Just too heavy for me now that I’m in my 70’s. 

[AnotherScott]

19 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

I have a CK 88 coming from Sweetwater this week. I’ve owned the CK 61 since April so I’m familiar with the sounds, interface, strengths and weaknesses and the CK 61 is a great light, cheap alternative to my Nord Stage 3 Compact.  
  I’m hoping I can get on with weighted action on the CK 88. If so, I’ll be listing my Nord Stage 2 HA76 + hard case.  Just too heavy for me now that I’m in my 70’s. 

 

Do you intend to stack your CK88 and CK61, or only use one or the other for any given gig?

 

I'll be curious to see what you think of the action, coming from that Nord.

[ewall08530]

42 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Do you intend to stack your CK88 and CK61, or only use one or the other for any given gig?

 

I'll be curious to see what you think of the action, coming from that Nord.

I’m honestly not sure how often I’ll use both. For the last 10 years I’ve been a fan of just using one keyboard for most band gigs   The Stage 3 Compact has been the most used since 2018 but I’m playing more piano these days and missing weighted keys.  I love the CK 61 for party jams and a couple small gigs I can walk to.  In fact I have one on Sunday. 
   I’ll share my thoughts on the CK 88 action after a little time with it. 
 

[BEMcCut]

A friend just bought a CK61. He is a great player but super low tech. I have benn doing his programming for cover bands for 30 years. He also has a Yamaha MO 6 and he is trying to midi them together. He is having a problem with tuning. He current band tunes down one half step and the two keyboards aren't working together. It sounds like he is playing an F and F# when layered. I suspect the problem is that he is actually turning the MO down and transposing the CK61. Hopefully it will be an easy fix

[AnotherScott]

24 minutes ago, BEMcCut said:

A friend just bought a CK61. He is a great player but super low tech. I have benn doing his programming for cover bands for 30 years. He also has a Yamaha MO 6 and he is trying to midi them together. He is having a problem with tuning. He current band tunes down one half step and the two keyboards aren't working together. It sounds like he is playing an F and F# when layered. I suspect the problem is that he is actually turning the MO down and transposing the CK61. Hopefully it will be an easy fix

 

What does "MIDI them together" mean here? Does he want to play MO sounds from the CK's keys, or CK sounds from the MO's keys, or both?

 

BTW, there is no standard MIDI command for "transpose" so there's no single answer to how to do this kind of thing, you have to look at the particular capabilities/settings of each configuration.

[Sam Mullins]

I noticed that my CK88 has issues when connecting balanced (TRS) cables...only get one side on audio (think it was left) most of the time although it occasionally comes back to stereo.  I’ve tried with multiple cables (that all work reliably with other equipment). Plug unbalanced (TS) cables in and problem goes away.  I know the manual says unbalanced outputs but I've never had this issue with other keyboards.

 

Anyone experiencing this?

 

[Charleston]

I wonder when/if a music rest (for the 88) will become available? 

Or does the YMR-03 fit?

[Bobby Simons]

3 hours ago, Charleston said:

I wonder when/if a music rest (for the 88) will become available? 

Or does the YMR-03 fit?

Yes, that's the one.

[Charleston]

1 hour ago, Bobby Simons said:

Yes, that's the one.

Thanks!

But.... $99?   😬

[Bobby Simons]

11 hours ago, Charleston said:

Thanks!

But.... $99?   😬

I know, f*cking outrageous for a piece of plastic, isn't it? I actually got mine from Kraft Music for $76.99 - I see they still have it at that price. Slightly less outrageous.

[Charleston]

4 hours ago, Bobby Simons said:

I know, f*cking outrageous for a piece of plastic, isn't it? I actually got mine from Kraft Music for $76.99 - I see they still have it at that price. Slightly less outrageous.

Cool.

Although Kraft makes up a little on shipping ($12), ...but still a little better overall on price.

Thanks for the info!

[D. Gauss]

for those of you that have either of these, do they have a mono piano sample at all?

[drawback]

24 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

for those of you that have either of these, do they have a mono piano sample at all?

Yes, CFX Mono, Bright & Warm

[ewall08530]

2 hours ago, drawback said:

Yes, CFX Mono, Bright & Warm

The Upright U1 is mono too. 

[D. Gauss]

thanks!

[RDM]

 

[Giancarlo Robles]

Yesterday I was browsing through the Sweetwater website and in a tiny corner I see something mentioning a new keyboard: the CK-61.  I have been pretty happy with my current setup for church and had not looked at keyboards for a long while.  When I started reading the features my jaw dropped because I had been considering a Roland VR-09 for a while but I never purchased one.  This is a direct competition to the Roland VR-09 and it was perfect for me since I mainly do secondary keys.  So, I researched heavily for about an hour, went back to the Sweetwater website and purchased one without a second thought.  I am super excited about it.

 

I will probably be doing the same thing most of you have mentioned regarding the organ: connecting my ipad to the CK-61 and using the B3-X organ instead.  As for the rest of the sounds, they sound great (especially the strings), and from the audio demos I'm sure it will be perfect for what I do at church. 

 

One thing I would have loved for the CK-61 to have is the music stand slots just like the CK-88 has.  That CK-88 music stand looks amazing btw.  In the CK-61 FAQ they mention that some third parties may have music rests for the CK-61 but I did not see anything.  Has anyone found a solution to attach a music stand on the CK-61?

[franky64]

On 8/1/2023 at 4:37 PM, ImproKeys said:

Thank you! The linked discussion says it all. The difference to the behavior of a real piano is obvious,  given the nature of the piano tone. 

But it still feels strange and somewhat unrealistic playing other sounds. On the other hand, who am I to judge how a sustain pedal would work on a real string ensemble.... 

 

out of curiosity (I could not remember that an acoustic 're-sounds' even 10 seconds after the key release)  I just checked this on a) VR09 b) Casio Stage piano:

 

in both cases the damper works 'as it should':

• on all grand/piano sounds a damper action short time after key release re-enganges a (silent) outfading sound. This is because a 'piano' continues to 'vibrate' (the whole device and also the strings) for 1-2 seconds despite the dampers back on the strings. Relifting the damper allows the strings to 'recapture' the vibrations - but this is rather a kind of 'sympathetic reverb'  sound, and it only works if the pedal is reengaged within those 2 seconds
• on any patch other than (acoustic) pianos, lifting sustain pedal does end the tones - pour toujours  - no 'continuation' of the sounds release when repushing the pedal.

 

It seems what happens on the Yam that is revives the entire 'release phase' of a sound what is imho very different from the 're-damper' effect of a piano.

 

So either it's a bug (software glitch, constraint of the sound chip, etc) or it's a 'design philosophy' of Yamaha (for what ever reason) - or they don't have the 're-damper effect in the piano modeling and tried to compensate it with a 'workaround'

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CHarrell]

7 hours ago, Giancarlo Robles said:

Yesterday I was browsing through the Sweetwater website and in a tiny corner I see something mentioning a new keyboard: the CK-61.  I have been pretty happy with my current setup for church and had not looked at keyboards for a long while.  When I started reading the features my jaw dropped because I had been considering a Roland VR-09 for a while but I never purchased one.  This is a direct competition to the Roland VR-09 and it was perfect for me since I mainly do secondary keys.  So, I researched heavily for about an hour, went back to the Sweetwater website and purchased one without a second thought.  I am super excited about it.

 

I will probably be doing the same thing most of you have mentioned regarding the organ: connecting my ipad to the CK-61 and using the B3-X organ instead.  As for the rest of the sounds, they sound great (especially the strings), and from the audio demos I'm sure it will be perfect for what I do at church. 

 

One thing I would have loved for the CK-61 to have is the music stand slots just like the CK-88 has.  That CK-88 music stand looks amazing btw.  In the CK-61 FAQ they mention that some third parties may have music rests for the CK-61 but I did not see anything.  Has anyone found a solution to attach a music stand on the CK-61?

 

I'm gonna say it: except for the organ section, the CK61 kicks the VR09's ass in just about every meaningful metric. I had a CK88 briefly in the springtime, so was aware of its features and UI, but last weekend I got to try the 61 and it's an amazing 2nd board. The keybed is waaaaaay better than the VR09's, too.

[franky64]

9 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

I'm gonna say it: except for the organ section, the CK61 kicks the VR09's ass in just about every meaningful metric. 

not sure (despite of being a notorious critic of VR09s flaws): few days ago tried the filters in CK (for synth related sounds):  not only they are far far away from anything that could seriously be called 'resonance' - with reso at max (still far from what the synth nerds call eigen-resonance), in 95% of pads/leads the 'cutoff sweeps' induce awful artefacts: loud jumps, steps, cracklings, completely different 'sounds' -  sometimes even alternating between R and L channel. 
this is absolutely not the case with VR: you can use its filter to make sounds hurl and cry as in a 'real synth'.
At this point we still have not haven taken into account VRs hidden multi-layer/timbral zones with 4 zones and 9-fold timbrality which makes a huge difference when layering even classic fat brass/string background or solo parts. An then we yet have not talked about the ~2000 hidden GM/GS/Sound-Canvas sounds (e.g. by external controller). 
the pros of CK vs. VR are: acoustic pianos/grands (a HUGE pro though), FX per zone, speakers, audio-to-usb
the pros of VR vs CK are: the not perfect but ways better organ engine (in all aspects including integration of pedal bass), the zones/mulitlayers, the synth-engine including Virtual-Analog, the easy-going usb-recorder (and if you like the inbuild rhythms, looper, d-beam controller)
--

Seriously:  try to achive something like this on a CK (this was just at the beginning of discovery of VR09 secrets, more sounds have been deflowered since  ...)

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, tonewheel organ and VA synth are the big Roland advantages, along with drums and the additional "hidden" facilities available via the unofficial PC/Mac editor. 

 

CK advantages--in addition to "acoustic pianos/grands, FX per zone, speakers, audio-to-usb"--include real-time control over 3 split/layered sounds (instead of 2), 4 external zones (instead of 1), Rhodes sounds, transistor organs, the ability to recall sounds with 8 buttons and over MIDI (as opposed to 4 buttons and no MIDI), and organ sliders send MIDI CC. (The audio over USB, MIDI zoning, MIDI patch change, and slider CCs combine to make it a better board for integrating external sounds.)

 

And in terms of other acoustic instrument sounds (besides pianos/organs), it's a mix, each has some advantages over the other there, I think. 

[CHarrell]

Good points about the VA engine, y'all, I forgot you could hook up an iPad to control the "VA" part (I believe it's the Gaia engine which uses samples instead of modelled circuitry, but still sounds pretty good). I was subconsciously thinking just what you can do from the board itself.

[franky64]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Yeah, tonewheel organ and VA synth are the big Roland advantages, along with drums and the additional "hidden" facilities available via the unofficial PC/Mac editor. 

 

CK advantages--in addition to "acoustic pianos/grands, FX per zone, speakers, audio-to-usb"--include real-time control over 3 split/layered sounds (instead of 2), 4 external zones (instead of 1), Rhodes sounds, transistor organs, the ability to recall sounds with 8 buttons and over MIDI (as opposed to 4 buttons and no MIDI), and organ sliders send MIDI CC. (The audio over USB, MIDI zoning, MIDI patch change, and slider CCs combine to make it a better board for integrating external sounds.)

 

And in terms of other acoustic instrument sounds (besides pianos/organs), it's a mix, each has some advantages over the other there, I think. 

100% agree  (just one precision: on VR one can recall single sounds via midi but not complete 'registrations' - the latter being a pain in the a....  absolutely incomprehensible why Roland did not deliver a fix after all the owners claims)
Midi: right, VRs capabiltiy to control external gear is basically null (or at least complicated to setup with sysex-to-CC mappers) - on the other hand you can use an external controller to play VRs complete Roland GS/SC heritage sound palette  ... like a XV or SC module ...  
We could continue this 'shootout' CK vs. VR for hours - it won't  make sense:  although both cover the 'budget all-in-one-gigging-board' segment each has its strong points and weak points, none is 'better' or 'worse' - it's upon each ones 'spec sheet' to decide which of both fits in.
 

@CHarrell: right, the VA-synth is that of JP-80/Integra/Gaia

 

[danskeys]

Regarding the CK61 FSB keybed...it doesn't look like I can try this out anywhere, so I'm looking for some opinions from those who have played it.  I am a piano player at heart, but I really want a *very* portable keyboard with speakers for traveling.  I have a Nord Stage 4 HA73 for serious playing--and that one is pretty portable compared to 88-note boards.  But it's still too heavy for grabbing from my attic studio and throwing in the car for a quick trip.  I soooo wish there was a ~23lb GHS keybed in a CK73.  Would literally be the unicorn keyboard I've been searching for.  But there isn't.  All this to lead up to the real question: is there any way I will adjust to, and find acceptable, the keybed on the CK61 as a keyboard/piano player that hasn't played an unweighed keybed since my Kurzweil K1000 back in the 90s?  While I'm not super picky, and I understand the huge tradeoffs in getting a 12 pound (!!!) keyboard with speakers, I just don't know how I'll adjust to a 5-octive FSB keybed.  I'm convinced I will be good with the sounds and features of the CK61, but I'm not sure if I'll find it acceptable to play!  Opinions would be appreciated.

[AnotherScott]

8 minutes ago, danskeys said:

I soooo wish there was a ~23lb GHS keybed in a CK73.  Would literally be the unicorn keyboard I've been searching for.  But there isn't. 

Since you'd be willing to go up to a 23 lb 73-key for something with a keyspan and feel you'd prefer, you might also look at a Kurzweil SP6-7, it's 17.53 lbs, 76 keys. I've got the PC4-7, and its feel for piano playing is much better than that of the CK61, IMO, and I think the feel of the SP6-7 should be about the same (I think the only difference in the actions is the aftertouch strip). But... no speakers, no battery operation.

[danskeys]

"But... no speakers, no battery operation."

 

I don't care about batteries, but the speakers are what make it truly portable, and are a must.  I had a Yamaha P121 which has great speakers which I kind of regret selling.  Sounded great, very decent feel.  Not much variety of sounds.  That's why I'm so attracted to the CK61.  I keep reading that people are saying it is "fun" to play.  That's what I want.  Playing the Nord Stage 4 is the most fun you can have with a keyboard, and has made me rethink what I want.  A great piano feel and sound are great...but I want to have more fun playing!  But anyway, speakers are a deal-breaker.  Speaking of speakers, can anyone compare the CK speakers to the P121/125?

[drawback]

I've found the action on my CK61 to be quite good for AP/EP playing. The keys don't bottom out as early as some other semi-weighted I've owned (VOX Continental, Nord Stage Compact), and they're not noisy/clacky. In fact the action is what surprised me in the store – you know pretty much the sound you're gonna get from Yamaha – so much so that I kept going back to it while demoing other instruments. It feels like a premium diving board action – kind of like the quality of earlier keyboards, if you know what I mean. 

 

Speaker-wise, well, you can EQ internally and externally, plus there's a good amount of volume from the 6w speakers. Compared with the P121 IIRC they're about the same. Not a lot of bass, but doable. I noticed right away that if I used the onboard speakers in conjunction with reinforcement, it can become quite adequate for an in-home session. I just plugged it into my studio monitors on low volume. I plan to get a small keyboard-friendly amp to take out to some friends. Currently looking at a Laney AH, VOX VX50KB or (gulp) Roland KC220/60.

[danskeys]

25 minutes ago, drawback said:

I've found the action on my CK61 to be quite good for AP/EP playing. The keys don't bottom out as early as some other semi-weighted I've owned (VOX Continental, Nord Stage Compact), and they're not noisy/clacky. In fact the action is what surprised me in the store – you know pretty much the sound you're gonna get from Yamaha – so much so that I kept going back to it while demoing other instruments. It feels like a premium diving board action – kind of like the quality of earlier keyboards, if you know what I mean. 

 

Speaker-wise, well, you can EQ internally and externally, plus there's a good amount of volume from the 6w speakers. Compared with the P121 IIRC they're about the same. Not a lot of bass, but doable. I noticed right away that if I used the onboard speakers in conjunction with reinforcement, it can become quite adequate for an in-home session. I just plugged it into my studio monitors on low volume. I plan to get a small keyboard-friendly amp to take out to some friends. Currently looking at a Laney AH, VOX VX50KB or (gulp) Roland KC220/60.

This is GREAT to hear.  I found the P121 speakers to be really nice--surprisingly great actually.  On the other hand, I tried an RD88 for a few days and the speakers were a complete joke.  Shockingly bad and useless.  After trying that RD88, I will never assume that built-in speakers are usable.  And your description of the keybed of the CK61 is just what I wanted to read.  I'll just have to buy one from the local GC (since they don't have any on display) with the 45-day return policy, and see what I think.  Thanks again!