Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[ElmerJFudd]

The Yamaha AN-X trademark filing has us all imagining the engine going into MODX+ and/or Montage+.  
 

But slightly less recent history… 

 

Yamaha filed for two new trademarks in June 2021. The trademarks are words in stylized form - similar font to CP and YC.
The scope is “Musical instruments, namely, electronic musical keyboards, electronic organs, electronic music synthesizers, cases for musical instruments”.  
 

Could these instruments be replacing the MX line?  Could they possibly be big-kid reface models with full size 61 keys?  Could they be where the AN-X engine is intended for?  
 

 

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/namm-2022-your-guess-is-as-good-as-mine/

 

[CyberGene]

Hmm, I just posted in the MODX+ that I would like to see a YC88 with the refaceCS panel and engine added to it, a Nord Stage competitor. Could this CK88 be the thing? Maybe it’s CP + YC + CS in one keyboard? Or just CP + CS?

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Could they possibly be big-kid reface models with full size 61 keys?  Could they be where the AN-X engine is intended for?  
 

 

 

Could be. If it were CS61 I would say, absolutely, that's where the VA is going. ;-)

 

Since we're making stuff up, how about... Yamaha is re-entering the soundless controller market. CK could stand for Controller Keyboard.

[ElmerJFudd]

7 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Hmm, I just posted in the MODX+ that I would like to see a YC88 with the refaceCS panel and engine added to it, a Nord Stage competitor. Could this CK88 be the thing? Maybe it’s CP + YC + CS in one keyboard? Or just CP + CS?

Let me just say, if I haven’t before (haha, I’ve suggested it many times), that for me and I imagine many others - I’m always going to prefer a weighted action 88 or 76k for playing piano.   When I bring a second board it’s to cover other things - it would be ideal if MI developers paired poly synth engines with clone wheel organ engines in boards that sport an organ or semi-weight synth action with waterfall keys.  

[stoken6]

46 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Since we're making stuff up, how about... Yamaha is re-entering the soundless controller market. CK could stand for Controller Keyboard.

That was my first thought. All of it.

 

CK is the new KX.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[drawback]

Controller was my first thought also. No matter what it is, let the clamor for a 7x begin. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

So in my mind I've been thinking all along that "CK" stands for "Classic Keys",  but then they already have the YC line and the CP line, so I'm not sure what that would be then.

[davinwv]

52 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

That was my first thought. All of it.

 

CK is the new KX.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Oh man - I hope so! These would probably be insta-buys for me. 

[CyberGene]

Isn’t the market already over-saturated with MIDI controllers? Not sure about the profitability of it. 

[Konnector]

Well, they could be ultra budget friendly controllers.   CK = Crappy Keyboard

 

Hope not!

[davinwv]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Isn’t the market already over-saturated with MIDI controllers? Not sure about the profitability of it. 

It isn't saturated with great controllers.

[ElmerJFudd]

There’s a long gap between Yamaha 1986 KX controllers and their 2008 KX controllers.  What does a Yamaha KX midi controller look like in 2023?  Maybe we’ll find out… 

 

I’m guessing they won’t offer it in their best actions but probably the same actions we get on the three MODX sizes.  
 

Possibly some MIDI 2.0 features. 
 

Cubase integration? 
 

USB-C connection?  
 

 

[AnotherScott]

Tangentially, MODX is one of my favorite MIDI controllers, because you can create screen-selectable named patches for external sounds which, themselves, can be entirely freely combined (up to 8 at a time) in Performances. You can even use this method to mix internal and external sounds interchangeably, with no operational distinction between them, so the available external sounds really become an entirely transparent extension of the available internal sounds. I haven't seen any other board do this. (Though it was essentially an idea I suggested many years ago to reps at a couple of companies, who were not Yamaha!)

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Tangentially, MODX is one of my favorite MIDI controllers, because you can create screen-selectable named patches for external sounds which, themselves, can be entirely freely combined (up to 8 at a time) in Performances. You can even use this method to mix internal and external sounds interchangeably, with no operational distinction between them, so the available external sounds really become an entirely transparent extension of the available internal sounds. I haven't seen any other board do this. (Though it was essentially an idea I suggested many years ago to reps at a couple of companies, who were not Yamaha!)

Yes, typically the price point at which we find complete well featured instruments is where we also find the best midi controller features.  
 

Kawai’s VPC-1 is one of the few to offer a high quality action - one we typically pay for on a complete instrument.  They have never refreshed this product.  I don’t know that they will.  
 

What might inspire our MI manufacturers to offer their best controller features and best actions at price points that are under their complete instruments where we are also  paying for processing power, fast storage and sound engines?  

[AnotherScott]

A MODX7-style design with no sound engines, but with aftertouch and 9 Montage-style sliders + 8 Montage style encoders (meaning all with LED indicators), and MIDI 2.0 to facilitate the 2-way communication that would make those LED indicators really effective with external sound sources, with that same ability to create labeled screen-selectable external sounds that can be freely mixed-and-matched, for under a grand, would be along the lines of what i would find to be a really appealing controller.

 

(Of course, with no CK76 shown, that's probably off the table. Nod to drawback.)

[Fleer]

As the MODX+ should be revealed Sep 1st, these may follow. 

[stoken6]

There are plenty of meh-quality cheap controllers on the market, with lots of lights, pads and very little appropriate for live use. If I had to put my money down, that's what I think Yamaha would be building.

 

Here's what would be really cool: built-in USB audio/MIDI interface (like the YCs and the P125), USB-C with power delivery, slot for an iPad. Instant iPad rig: just add cable.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[CyberGene]

Yamaha are not in my mind the company that wants to make it easy for you to have an iPad rig, i.e. use non-Yamaha solutions 😀

 

I used to have a KX8 at the office 10 years ago. Was an OK controller. A Casio CDP-100 entry-level digital piano was better and lighter though 😀

[davinwv]

2 hours ago, stoken6 said:

 

Here's what would be really cool: built-in USB audio/MIDI interface (like the YCs and the P125), USB-C with power delivery, slot for an iPad. Instant iPad rig: just add cable.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

I would rather have a more high-end action (like the CP88), solid controls, and two modwheels (like the EX5) than an audio interface.

 

I already have a Quantum 2626 in my live rack, but I do see how a built-in interface would be a benefit, especially in a pinch.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, davinwv said:

I would rather have a more high-end action (like the CP88), solid controls, and two modwheels (like the EX5) than an audio interface.

 

I already have a Quantum 2626 in my live rack, but I do see how a built-in interface would be a benefit, especially in a pinch.

Yeah... on one hand, an audio interface sounds like it would be an unlikely thing to put into a board that doesn't generate any sound... but if you're using a laptop or tablet live, it would be nice to not have another dangly box to deal with, and the associated cluttered octopus wiring, or connections to 1/8" headphone jacks. If you want to show up with just your laptop/tablet and a keyboard (no rack, etc.), the clean single-wire connection between the devices, and solid 1/4" (and maybe XLR) outs from the keyboard would look to be probably the fastest, easiest, neatest, most solid/reliable way to go.

[Stokely]

7 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Yamaha are not in my mind the company that wants to make it easy for you to have an iPad rig, i.e. use non-Yamaha solutions 😀

 

I used to have a KX8 at the office 10 years ago. Was an OK controller. A Casio CDP-100 entry-level digital piano was better and lighter though 😀

Yet, they are the one company currently (other than maybe Studiologic) that does make it easy.   One cable connects my ipad to my Modx.  There is a separate volume control for it.  I can use the ipad sounds right along with the internal sounds in splits and layers.   I'm a person who hates "fiddly" when it comes to live rigs, I've avoided laptops despite being all-in on VSTs for 15 years or so in my home hobby studio.  If I can't set up in five minutes, ten tops then something needs to change.   This has won me over, though caveat I'm only using one app (B-3X) so things are really caveman simple on the ipad (no AUM or other app to tie things together).

A midi controller with a built-in audio interface (class compliant) would be absolutely great in my book.   Now personally I'd pair that with a hardware keyboard "just in case" but it would mean I wouldn't need a second hardware keyboard.  And extra bonus if the action is really nice and I could use it for a home controller.

What *does* the YC and CP stand for, if anything?

[Delaware Dave]

Man, you guys love to speculate and wonder.  I too wonder.....

 

 

[davinwv]

8 minutes ago, Stokely said:

What *does* the YC and CP stand for, if anything?

I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I always thought it was Yamaha Combo (organ) and Concert Piano.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

If you want to show up with just your laptop/tablet and a keyboard (no rack, etc.), the clean single-wire connection between the devices, and solid 1/4" (and maybe XLR) outs from the keyboard would look to be probably the fastest, easiest, neatest, most solid/reliable way to go.

Exactly my thinking: inspired by the ReezeKeys lightweight rig, but fewer cables.

 

5 hours ago, davinwv said:

rack

The minute you have a rack, the situation is different. You can mount PSUs, USB hubs, audio interfaces in there, and don't need so much onboard. 

 

8 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

you guys love to speculate and wonder

More "wish and hope", in my case. Something like I described would be a winner for me as an informal rehearsal/jamming board. 

 

16 minutes ago, Stokely said:

What *does* the YC and CP stand for, if anything?

YC=Yamaha Combo, I believe. The P in CP would surely be Piano, but C?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[davinwv]

22 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

The minute you have a rack, the situation is different. You can mount PSUs, USB hubs, audio interfaces in there, and don't need so much onboard. 

I have the updated version of the 2u SKB Studio Flyer. I had the original one, but decided to upgrade when I got a new music PC laptop and the Quantum.

 

The Studio Flyer is key to having a neat, laptop-based live rig. I used the original one from 2008-2022 (since I went all software for live performances with zero hardware sounds).

 

It is a great piece of kit, but I definitely see the benefit of integrated audio interfaces for quick in & out gigs/jams.

[CyberGene]

Compact Piano? Clavier Portable? 😀 And what about CS? S is for Synth but the C? Compact/Console?

[stoken6]

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Compact Piano? Clavier Portable? 

Except that P-series (p-85 through p125) are more compact and "plus portable" than the CP-series (CP300, CP33, CP 1/4/5, CP 73/88). Yes this is less obvious is you compare CP73 and P515 - but my point is that the distinction between P and CP is not naturally one of compactness and "portabilité"

 

Cheers, Mike.

[CyberGene]

How about Combo Piano? Similarly to combo organ which is a touring organ, a combo piano is a touring piano, the CP70 could be moved by only 2 very fit people compared to a concert grand piano that requires a team of weightlifters 😀 Thus “combo piano” is the predecessor term to “stage piano”.

 

And then the Combo Synth CS80 since it’s not the modular bulk that one builds in the studio but can be toured. 
 

And we arrive at the Combo Keyboard CK since it’s not just a piano or organ or synth but all of it, so it’s all Keyboards in one Combo 😀

[AnotherScott]

Reported elsewhere that the same Yamaha product registration page that is prematurely listing the MODX+ is also showing the CK61 and CK88 so their release must be imminent as well.

 

Tangentially... Sweetwater has had the MOXF6 at $999 for years... it now finally appears to be gone, all they show now is one demo unit available for $899, new ones are no longer orderable. Guitar Center/Musicians Friend still have the MOXF8, though.

[felis]

On 8/25/2022 at 5:44 PM, Konnector said:

Well, they could be ultra budget friendly controllers.   CK = Crappy Keyboard

 

Hope not!

 

If it has aftertouch (or polyAT) and release velocity, then it could be CK - Celestial Keyboard.

 

But odds are that you're probably closer to the mark.

 

Yamaha really does need to do something with the AN engine though.