Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[AnotherScott]

17 hours ago, pianopappa said:

Re: button colors, I too was disappointed to find it was not a global setting! Not looking forward to setting it for every Live Set individually (but i probably will). Anyone know an easy workaround?

 

While the John Melas editor doesn't let you globally change individual Live Set parameters, it would probably make it easier to copy-and-paste them to each Live Set, vs. navigating the on-board menus to do that.

[AnotherScott]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:17 PM, ESFlash said:

Anyway, I changed the CK88 touch response; 4 choices there, normal, soft, hard & wide, no help and very little difference in how my playing affected the output.

 

The 4 choices there are of limited use in affecting piano response. What you really want to play with are the velocity offset and velocity depth settings for the particular Live Set. Those settings are much more effective for tailoring the touch response of the pianos and EPs. Page 30 of the manual.

 

On 7/8/2023 at 2:17 PM, ESFlash said:

The acoustic piano sounds didn't do it for me at all. I tweaked them and made some decent edits that I felt could work. The editing, BTW, is pretty terrific along with the efx section and the way various unison's can be dialed in is ultra cool. However, when it came to piano sounds and how it all felt .... not happening.

 

If you're still using the spacestation for this, some EQ will almost certainly help. You'll probably want to adjust the midrange center frequency along with its amount, page 31. Alternatively, use the 1-band EQ effect, page 44. 

 

On 7/8/2023 at 2:17 PM, ESFlash said:

One thing tho, that  I couldn't get to work after splitting the keyboard into a piano on the left and a B3 on the right, was getting the FC7 expression pedal to only affect the organ and not the entire output. There's prbly a way to do that, I cldn't make that happen.

 

It's the Receive SW parameter, p.31.

 

On 7/8/2023 at 5:42 PM, Charleston said:

Thanks for the idea, but as far as masking tape: 1) Some of the buttons have text on them. 2) Having only one color would defeat the primary benefit of the colors changing depending on the layer chosen. 3) Not sure if I want all that tape all over that many buttons.

But yeah, as a last resort taping up everything could be done I guess.

 

Some white paper tapes are probably translucent enough that you'd still be able to see at least the colors through them, if not readable text. If you can't sufficiently read the text, you may be able to solving that via writing on or judiciously adding small labels to the tape.

[konaboy]

and, that concludes my CK review series!

 

[ESFlash]

Thanks AnotherScott, for the info.

[Prizm]

On 7/9/2023 at 12:22 AM, Charleston said:

I'm still concerned about the button lights, and may return it.

 

Perhaps you can send Yamaha some quick feedback about it if you have time. The more people mention it, the more chance they might look into a fix for those of us who plan to keep it.

[Charleston]

6 hours ago, Prizm said:

 

Perhaps you can send Yamaha some quick feedback about it if you have time. The more people mention it, the more chance they might look into a fix for those of us who plan to keep it.

Where do I give Yamaha feedback? 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Charleston said:

Where do I give Yamaha feedback? 

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/

[Bobby Simons]

SO, I picked up a CK88 today at Chuck Levin's. Got the last one, he said they are selling very well. I've been playing it for a couple of hours; it's no more or less than I expected. I'm very happy to have a very decent sounding board I can throw in the car and head out to a jam or a rehearsal or a vacation.

Not particularly bothered by the lights.

Next up: see how it serves as a Mainstage controller.

OK, back to it. . . 

[Tiff_Sunbacon]

On 6/29/2023 at 6:49 PM, Charleston said:

Do you know if there is a way to change the default colors? 

Yes but it seems you have to change it on every patch individually - there doesn’t appear to be a global setting 

[Charleston]

Has anyone noticed that you only see the names of the layers on the screen, when they are turned on?

 

Is this preferred by some? I can't remember, but is this how Nord does it?

 

I think I would rather see all 3 at all times, and then highlighted if turned on or off.

[Sam Mullins]

1 hour ago, Charleston said:

Has anyone noticed that you only see the names of the layers on the screen, when they are turned on?

 

Is this preferred by some? I can't remember, but is this how Nord does it?

 

I think I would rather see all 3 at all times, and then highlighted if turned on or off.

Won't say preferred by me, but it doesn't bother me.  Wouldn't object to what you propose though.  

[Bobby Simons]

I hooked up my iPad so I could run VB3m - the CK triggers the notes but I can't figure out how to get it to see the drawbars. Has anyone done this? Please help this old fool. Oh, and the mod wheel works Leslie speed, but the swell pedal at the same time! 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Bobby Simons said:

I hooked up my iPad so I could run VB3m - the CK triggers the notes but I can't figure out how to get it to see the drawbars. 

IIRC, the drawbars only send MIDI when you have the CK's internal drawbar organ sound active. So enable the built-in organ sound but turn down its volume, so you hear only teh VB3m organ and not also Yamaha's.

[Bobby Simons]

5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

IIRC, the drawbars only send MIDI when you have the CK's internal drawbar organ sound active. So enable the built-in organ sound but turn down its volume, so you hear only teh VB3m organ and not also Yamaha's.

Thanks, I saw that and tried it - no luck. I'll try again when I'm more awake.

[Prizm]

With the exception of piano, EP and other vintage keyboards (organ, etc), I find most other sounds on the CK are disappointing.

Every review I've seen seems to avoid talking about the quality of these other sounds. This feedback is only being mentioned in a few user comments.

 

I hear a lot of obvious loop points, I hear clipping on some sounds, and resampling of some sounds as I go up the keys. Most are thin and weak sounding, with no depth or high-end quality to make you sit up and go "wow".
Some sounds in 80s romplers have better quality than this.  Even the old orchestra hit sample on this board has an odd, overly-crunched distortion to it.

 

I get Yamaha don't want to put their most expensive sounds in here, but surely they can afford something better than 30 year old samples.

 

The redeeming feature is the hands-on effects and easy interface. A bit of tweaking can help mask the poor quality of the sounds.
Other keyboards might have better sounds/features, but if I have to menu dive all the time, then that cancels out whatever benefits the board has, as it just gets too tedious. So... the CK is a bit of a mixed bag.

[AnotherScott]

Yamaha has had the "sweet flute" around forever, I was disappointed that the CK has a lesser flute than that.

[Bobby Simons]

No luck getting Mainstage, or my iPad, to see the CK's drawbars. I bought this thing fully expecting it to function as a controller - not a big ask in this day and age. Sees the mod wheels and sustain pedal just fine, so there's no explanation. I'm very disappointed.

[Jinkings]

53 minutes ago, Bobby Simons said:

No luck getting Mainstage, or my iPad, to see the CK's drawbars. I bought this thing fully expecting it to function as a controller - not a big ask in this day and age. Sees the mod wheels and sustain pedal just fine, so there's no explanation. I'm very disappointed.

Try turning on the master keyboard mode on settings. The default is off

 

[Bobby Simons]

Found it. I had Menu : General : Midi : Midi Control in it's default 'OFF' setting. Dummy.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Bobby Simons said:

No luck getting Mainstage, or my iPad, to see the CK's drawbars. I bought this thing fully expecting it to function as a controller - not a big ask in this day and age. Sees the mod wheels and sustain pedal just fine, so there's no explanation. I'm very disappointed.

Have you setup a MIDI debugger on your computer and just watched what is generated when you move the drawbars?

[Ed Stanley]

Had a chance to play the CK88 today. I have been mulling over either a PC73 or the Crumar Seven / Seventeen but do not have access to either for a test drive. Can anyone here with experience on both comment as to whether the Rhodes sounds on the CK88 are the same as the CP73? 

[Pa Gherkin]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:17 PM, ESFlash said:

 

 

My main gig setup is an ancient Casio PX330 thru a SpaceStation V3 and an SK1 (the original model) thru a Fender Rumble 100.

 

 

 

 

ES, Sorry to derail but I have to ask if you ever tried the PX 330 through the Rumble and if so how did it sound?

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, Ed Stanley said:

Had a chance to play the CK88 today. I have been mulling over either a PC73 or the Crumar Seven / Seventeen but do not have access to either for a test drive. Can anyone here with experience on both comment as to whether the Rhodes sounds on the CK88 are the same as the CP73? 

 

the chart I posted earlier may help, see https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/183138-yamaha-ck61-and-ck88/page/13/#comment-2947486

 

[Bobby Simons]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:36 PM, Prizm said:

With the exception of piano, EP and other vintage keyboards (organ, etc), I find most other sounds on the CK are disappointing.

Every review I've seen seems to avoid talking about the quality of these other sounds. This feedback is only being mentioned in a few user comments.

 

I hear a lot of obvious loop points, I hear clipping on some sounds, and resampling of some sounds as I go up the keys. Most are thin and weak sounding, with no depth or high-end quality to make you sit up and go "wow".
Some sounds in 80s romplers have better quality than this.  Even the old orchestra hit sample on this board has an odd, overly-crunched distortion to it.

 

I get Yamaha don't want to put their most expensive sounds in here, but surely they can afford something better than 30 year old samples.

 

The redeeming feature is the hands-on effects and easy interface. A bit of tweaking can help mask the poor quality of the sounds.
Other keyboards might have better sounds/features, but if I have to menu dive all the time, then that cancels out whatever benefits the board has, as it just gets too tedious. So... the CK is a bit of a mixed bag.

I can't really disagree with this, other than: I find the Hammond falling short, as do others. They could have done better, and could have given more controls (Leslie speed ramps, key click, etc.) I knew this going in - and if I find myself in a position that demands a better B3, I have one on my phone. Still can't get over that. 😛

But some of the other patches sound great to me. You can layer together beautiful string sections; I always test that with Barber's Adagio for Strings because his voicing forces you to play in the proper manner. It was killing me last night, just lovely and aching.

The pipe organs are positively massive. I tried Wakeman's Close to the Edge spot where he goes about as big as he can go, and dug up my transcription of Emerson's Clotho. These are the organs that destroyed the world, and the CK does them justice. I was jonesin' for some bass pedals.

I could use some a couple of these brass patches, one sax section choice sounds fine. I don't know how old these samples are but they seem serviceable.

This old man put on headphones and went down the rabbit hole last night, stayed up way past his bedtime.

[Charleston]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:36 PM, Prizm said:

With the exception of piano, EP and other vintage keyboards (organ, etc), I find most other sounds on the CK are disappointing.

Every review I've seen seems to avoid talking about the quality of these other sounds. This feedback is only being mentioned in a few user comments.

 

I hear a lot of obvious loop points, I hear clipping on some sounds, and resampling of some sounds as I go up the keys. Most are thin and weak sounding, with no depth or high-end quality to make you sit up and go "wow".
Some sounds in 80s romplers have better quality than this.  Even the old orchestra hit sample on this board has an odd, overly-crunched distortion to it.

 

I get Yamaha don't want to put their most expensive sounds in here, but surely they can afford something better than 30 year old samples.

 

The redeeming feature is the hands-on effects and easy interface. A bit of tweaking can help mask the poor quality of the sounds.
Other keyboards might have better sounds/features, but if I have to menu dive all the time, then that cancels out whatever benefits the board has, as it just gets too tedious. So... the CK is a bit of a mixed bag.

It would have been great if they had at least dumped the MX sounds into it. A lot of great stuff there. 

 

Last night, I was looking for the basic ole' generic rock guitar sustained lead sound on the CK and there was nothing. Even the synth leads are pretty terrible. The MX has ton of them both. Yeah, old samples, but they work.

[ESFlash]

@ Pa Gherkin -- I like the Rumble 100 with the PX330; quite a full sound and easy to transport and setup.

 

My main setup is the PX thru the SpaceStation V3 and the SK1 thru the Rumble. 

 

I have also connected the Rumble to the SStation's sub output and that works quite well and it's easy to balance the two amps. Many folks have posted their problems getting decent acoustic piano sounds from that little SpaceStation, however for me it works and I can get a punchy piano sound. I (usually) use a small stereo graphic that the PX plugs into before hitting the SS. BTW the SS w/Rumble is a pretty slick organ setup.  The SS alone with the SK1 just dznt do it for solid low end definition once you step on the gas, especially if you're playing with a pounding rhythm section.

 

And getting back to the CK88 . . . . . .

 

I hope the CK88 heralds Yamaha and other manufacturers in developing & bringing to the eager marketplace, more sub $2,000 Piano / B3 drawbar boards that have great piano action, an assortment of terrific AP's/EP's along with decent knob/slider interfaces that avoid the layered-menu style "cost saving" interfaces that have, sadly, become so popular.

 

The CK88 interface and controlability is nothing short of amazing.

 

I so wanted the CK88 to work out for me but that action and the limited AP and EP palette (I know edit edit edit edit those sounds) was the deal breaker. So . . . . . . it's back to the two board two amp setup for me - quick setup with a wide assortment of controllable sounds.

[AnotherScott]

44 minutes ago, Charleston said:

It would have been great if they had at least dumped the MX sounds into it. A lot of great stuff there. 

 

I can understand not using the MX sound set of over 1100 voices... there is an advantage to quick navigation through available sounds, and if there were 3x as many sounds, those scrolling menus would be more cumbersome to navigate. But I would have hoped that all the sounds that were there were at least MX quality (e.g. the MX does have that better flute sound I mentioned).

[Polychrest]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:21 AM, Adan said:

 . . . when it comes to piano technique, comparing the CK61 (or any semi-weighted) to hammer action is apples and organges.

Organges indeed.  KC neologism of the year.

[Pa Gherkin]

ES, Thanks for the Rumble response.

[ESFlash]

... no problem