Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[Charleston]

On 7/16/2023 at 1:40 PM, AnotherScott said:

 

I can understand not using the MX sound set of over 1100 voices... there is an advantage to quick navigation through available sounds, and if there were 3x as many sounds, those scrolling menus would be more cumbersome to navigate. But I would have hoped that all the sounds that were there were at least MX quality (e.g. the MX does have that better flute sound I mentioned).

I personally would prefer it. Scrolling 50 voices....or 200....within a category is fine with me. The most bread and butter ones are typically toward the beginning of each category anyway if one is in quick improv mode.

 

And they could make it even easier, by making consecutive clicks (on the same category button) bring up the subcategories (so even way less scrolling needed). 

[Bobby Simons]

Keeping costs down?

It seems outrageous that they don't include a sustain pedal like the little FC5 with the board. I happen to have plenty of all varieties but c'mon, it's a effin' piano. It's not like some people won't feel they need one. Also, I like to have a music rest, both for sheet music and for the iPad I'll use with it. It's 100 bucks for not much more than a piece of plastic! That is indefensible, lol. I'll pay it, but not without some complaining. Also, since I decided I'll eventually want a FC3A continuous sustain for half pedaling and can't find one around here, my CK has gone from 1450 to almost 1600. I think Yammie has just picked my pocket.

OK, I feel a little better now.

[Docbop]

3 hours ago, Bobby Simons said:

Keeping costs down?

It seems outrageous that they don't include a sustain pedal like the little FC5 with the board. I happen to have plenty of all varieties but c'mon, it's a effin' piano. It's not like some people won't feel they need one. Also, I like to have a music rest, both for sheet music and for the iPad I'll use with it. It's 100 bucks for not much more than a piece of plastic! That is indefensible, lol. I'll pay it, but not without some complaining. Also, since I decided I'll eventually want a FC3A continuous sustain for half pedaling and can't find one around here, my CK has gone from 1450 to almost 1600. I think Yammie has just picked my pocket.

OK, I feel a little better now.

 

You ever hear of Nord.    Look at the price of the new Stage 4 and the triple pedal is an add-on along same with the music rest.   Shrinkflation has hit the restaurant biz and is spreading throughout all bizness.   iPhone and no more charger as price of the phone continues and other companies copy them.   It's shrinkflation is just a way to hide a price increase. 

[drawback]

Apologies if this has been asked and answered. I have an EV5 Pedal that doesn’t work with the CK61 (or Kronos for that matter, but my FC7 does). I’d like to use the EV5… is it just a matter of reversing the tip/ring?

[pawelsz]

14 hours ago, drawback said:

Apologies if this has been asked and answered. I have an EV5 Pedal that doesn’t work with the CK61 (or Kronos for that matter, but my FC7 does). I’d like to use the EV5… is it just a matter of reversing the tip/ring?

 

I think so.

 

http://expressionpedals.com/list-of-expression-pedals

 

At least FC7 with my DIY adapter reversing tip/ring works well with my Kurzweil and worked with Rolands.

[ewall08530]

I bought a Roland Ev-5 to use as an expression pedal on my CK61. I plugged it into foot pedal 2, made sure it was set to expression in the Menu and have had no problems. I would double check how it’s connected and confirm that the pedal works with other keyboards. (If you haven’t already). 

[drawback]

I didn’t see the option to select ‘expression,’ instead it says FC7. Or am I looking in the wrong place?

 

Edit - The manual has it in the menu under Settings (P.28) for Live Sets. I was looking under the global Menu. Will try when I have a chance. 

[drawback]

@ewall08530 I've checked the controller settings under both Settings and Menu and Pedal 2 is set up for Expression, but the EV5 doesn't work. It's a new pedal I've had as a spare. Have you done anything else to your setup that I'm missing? 

 

I'll probably just open it up and swap the TR wiring. From expressionpedals.com ( thanks, @pawelsz ), I see that an FC7 is RTS while the rest of the world is TRS. Otherwise the only other difference is electrical resistance.

 

EDIT – For anyone who cares at this point, I have swapped out the TR wiring to RT and the EV5 works as it should. 

[Paul Woodward]

Sorry if its been addressed earlier in the 19 pages, but how does the CK61 compare to the YC61? 

Reasons I bought the latter originally were the waterfall keybed which turned out to be pretty awful. Clacky and noisy before a surface then a weird initial resistance I just couldnt really get to grips with. I said that I actually preferred the high trigger point of the Roland VR09.

I wanted the audio ins as well as the iPad integration and, to be honest, I never used the drawbars other than to set up an organ sound in the first place and save it. I believe the CK covers both of these.

I loved the EP’s and the AP’s were fine if triggered from an external weighted board. Lack of regular updates proved a niggle but not a deal breaker.

In the end I couldn’t justify keeping a board of that value lying around for the occasional play so I sold it, but I can get a CK61 for under £600 (pretty much half the price of the YC)…

Anyone played both? 

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Sorry if its been addressed earlier in the 19 pages, but how does the CK61 compare to the YC61? 

Reasons I bought the latter originally were the waterfall keybed which turned out to be pretty awful... weird initial resistance I just couldnt really get to grips with. I said that I actually preferred the high trigger point of the Roland VR09.

...

I loved the EP’s and the AP’s were fine if triggered from an external weighted board. Lack of regular updates proved a niggle but not a deal breaker.

Addressing those particular points: CK61, though not waterfall shares that YC61 characteristic of an initial resistance to the keys, somewhat reminiscent of escapement on a piano, so you may fine it equally unsatisfactory. Still no high trigger point. EPs/APs are of comparable quality, but there are fewer of them. No indication that there will be any updates to the sound library.

[ImproKeys]

I went to try (and buy) a YC 61, but went home with a CK. Build quality feels better on the YC, but Yamaha plastic is not bad either. 
The YC has a lot more piano sounds but I liked the many non-piano sounds on the CK. I can get along with the CK61 keybed even for piano playing. Controlling via external is easy. 
The organ definitely sounds different, but it is so easy to just hook up your favourite IOS Clonewheel. 
I got a backpack case and am really happy to turn up on rehearsals or sessions like a guitar player 😉

[CyberGene]

5 minutes ago, ImproKeys said:

I got a backpack case and am really happy to turn up on rehearsals or sessions like a guitar player 😉

That's currently one of the main tempting points for me. We rehearse in a studio in an area where parking spots are sparse and sometimes I have to walk with my equipment for 5 minutes and is when I envy the guitar player.

[Fleer]

CK organ sounds pretty pretty good through a Leslie:

 

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, Fleer said:

CK organ sounds pretty pretty good through a Leslie

I'm sure it would sound pretty good through a Vent as well, without losing so much portability! Though unless you already own one, a $500 pedal might be not be the easiest sell for a $1000 keyboard. 😉 The other issue is that the CK doesn't have the panning function that was just added to the YC, which basically makes it impossible to put the CK sound through the Leslie effect without also putting any non-organ split/layered sounds through it as well. 😞

[stoken6]

1 minute ago, AnotherScott said:

the panning function that was just added to the YC

That's news - when did that come in?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[JohnH]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

That's news - when did that come in?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Yes , that was on the update of April 4, 2023. https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/yc61_yc73_yc88_os.html

 

V1.20 to V1.30

New features

A new Vibrato/Chorus effect has been added to the FM Organ Voices.

A new Pan setting has been added to the Live Set Sound settings.

A new function that allows simultaneous changing of parameters in the Keys Section has been added.

A new function allows maintaining the rotation speed of the rotary speaker effect has been added.

New Live Set Sounds have been added.

New Voices have been added.

[Fleer]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I'm sure it would sound pretty good through a Vent as well, without losing so much portability! Though unless you already own one, a $500 pedal might be not be the easiest sell for a $1000 keyboard. 😉 The other issue is that the CK doesn't have the panning function that was just added to the YC, which basically makes it impossible to put the CK sound through the Leslie effect without also putting any non-organ split/layered sounds through it as well. 😞

Guess we’d better look out for that update then 😎

[ImproKeys]

Does someone know how to reach Yamaha Support? The one support form I found doesnt work.

 

I discovered what could be a "bug" in the firmware.
It affects using the sustain pedal on sounds that have a long decay.
For example, if I select a pad sound that decays after the key is released and then step on the sustain pedal after the key is released, the sustain function is applied to the note that has already been released, i.e. it becomes then (at the then current volume) held by the pedal until I release it.
Of course, this is not how a sustain pedal should normally work and, for example, when playing string sounds, it leads to the tones blurring into one another, even though I have pedaled correctly.

Maybe you could check if this is also the case with your instrument. Thanks.

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, ImproKeys said:

I discovered what could be a "bug" in the firmware.
It affects using the sustain pedal on sounds that have a long decay.
For example, if I select a pad sound that decays after the key is released and then step on the sustain pedal after the key is released, the sustain function is applied to the note that has already been released, i.e. it becomes then (at the then current volume) held by the pedal until I release it.
Of course, this is not how a sustain pedal should normally work and, for example, when playing string sounds, it leads to the tones blurring into one another, even though I have pedaled correctly.

Maybe you could check if this is also the case with your instrument. Thanks.

 

This is by design. The pedal affects anything that is currently sounding. It may not always be desirable, but it's not a bug. It's also the way a piano pedal works.

 

See also:

 

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19331

 

 

[ImproKeys]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

This is by design. The pedal affects anything that is currently sounding. It may not always be desirable, but it's not a bug. It's also the way a piano pedal works.

 

See also:

 

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19331

 

 

Thank you! The linked discussion says it all. The difference to the behavior of a real piano is obvious,  given the nature of the piano tone. 

But it still feels strange and somewhat unrealistic playing other sounds. On the other hand, who am I to judge how a sustain pedal would work on a real string ensemble.... 

 

And the reported solution seems to work on a MX keyboard, but I can't see how to do this on the CK.

[AnotherScott]

5 hours ago, ImproKeys said:

On the other hand, who am I to judge how a sustain pedal would work on a real string ensemble.... 

🙂

5 hours ago, ImproKeys said:

And the reported solution seems to work on a MX keyboard, but I can't see how to do this on the CK.

Yeah, the MX has deep editing available (via external editor), as does the MODX (internally or via external editor), but on the CK, there is no access to those kinds of parameters.

[mrk7421]

As far as CK through a leslie the above video does not represent that well. The pentatonic beginner blues licks don't help

 

One acid test would be to see how the percussion tapers in the 5th octave.

 

Yamaha screwed up the chorus vibrato by adding vibrato to the percussion. Who designs these things?

 

I will have to go by GC and see how that percussion is in the last octave. Does it taper off at all?

 

I am still trying to find out how the CFX sample stacks up against the CP4, P515 , Montage etc. The 61 still offers a lot for the money .

[Bobby Simons]

For me, the killing stroke is that the overdrive distortion is always on, doesn't ramp up as you work the expression pedal. That's a shame, otherwise sometimes the organ sounds nice.

 

Still, I'm enjoying having it around and it didn't break the bank. And you never know. . . maybe they can fix some of this stuff with an update - without encroaching on YC territory.

[UnderGroundGr]

On 7/31/2023 at 11:49 PM, AnotherScott said:

I'm sure it would sound pretty good through a Vent as well, without losing so much portability! Though unless you already own one, a $500 pedal might be not be the easiest sell for a $1000 keyboard. 😉 The other issue is that the CK doesn't have the panning function that was just added to the YC, which basically makes it impossible to put the CK sound through the Leslie effect without also putting any non-organ split/layered sounds through it as well. 😞

My 1988 Kawai K1 has this panning function, i believe that all boards must have this...

[AnotherScott]

6 minutes ago, UnderGroundGr said:

My 1988 Kawai K1 has this panning function, i believe that all boards must have this...

The feature has been pretty common since boards went stereo in the first place. But unfortunately, there are also numerous boards that don't support this. Other recent multi-sound boards with organ engines, where you can't pan or otherwise route the organ sound to its own output, include Numa Compact 2X, Vox Continental, and Roland VR09/VR730.

[APP]

The CK88 is currently being discounted by $200 by the major retailers.

Seems unusual for a recently introduced board, no? Perhaps an update on the way?

[LarsHarner2]

My only guess is they are selling more of the 61 key versions? To me, the 61 key is more appealing 

[Fleer]

Always thought that asking $500 (or 50%) more for a larger and weighted keybed was somewhat exaggerated. 

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, Fleer said:

Always thought that asking $500 (or 50%) more for a larger and weighted keybed was somewhat exaggerated. 

Considering that you could buy the same action with sounds, speakers, power supply, connectors, sustain pedal for $500 (in the P45), it does seem like it might be a bit much to also ask $500 essentially for the action alone (that figure even allowing zero credit for the action already included in the 61). Though they do also have to supply a chassis that is larger than the one the P45 comes in, and also it is common that companies may offer lower priced products at lower profit margins and look to make it up on higher priced products. Still, while the premium for the 88 may have seemed high, I don't think it was a bad value even at $1499, i.e. compared to what else is in the market. 

[The_Star_Guy]

16 hours ago, LarsHarner2 said:

My only guess is they are selling more of the 61 key versions? To me, the 61 key is more appealing 

 

I think that the cost/value relationship 0f the CK-61 key version is excellent in general.    I also think that given the interface flexibility and wide sonic palette of this board it works exceedingly well as a "live" top board over just about any kind of bottom board workstation or slab piano.  In that scenario the CK 61 would be preferable.