Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[AnotherScott]

31 minutes ago, Adan said:

But if you're willing to spend the money on an app, even just the VB3, and plug your phone in, those issues fade away. 

 

Since for some reason Yamaha is resistant to sending MIDI CC from the non-drawbar controls (percussion, CV), it would be nice if any of these apps would let you enter sysex strings (or better yet, learn them the way they can often learn CCs). I wonder why nobody supports that?

[pjd]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Since for some reason Yamaha is resistant to sending MIDI CC from the non-drawbar controls (percussion, CV), it would be nice if any of these apps would let you enter sysex strings (or better yet, learn them the way they can often learn CCs). I wonder why nobody supports that?

 

This is one of my hot button issues. Software/hardware engineers should be forced to eat their own dog food. If it's a keyboard, they should be forced to do two things:

 

1. Make the instrument communicate with a control-intensive virtual instrument like IK B-3X, controlling everything, not just a few easy controls like the drawbars.

 

2. Carry a full size, fully-weighted replica of the keyboard every day during development. In and out of the office, on the subway. Montage/Kronos would both weigh a lot less.

 

This should be the law. They should be grateful that I'm not managing their product development... 🙃

 

All the best -- pj

 

[AnotherScott]

12 minutes ago, pjd said:

2. Carry a full size, fully-weighted replica of the keyboard every day during development. In and out of the office, on the subway. Montage/Kronos would both weigh a lot less.

 

And heck, just lift the prototypes in and out of a case and on and off a keyboard stand. It's amazing we still have to deal with boards that are unnecessarily awkward to grip.

[aronnelson]

The size of the Yamaha keyboards and the weight is the reason I can't use them for my local gigs. I request them on riders, but I just can't carry an awkward sized keyboard anymore. The S90ES was my last massive keyboard.

[stoken6]

On 4/26/2023 at 3:47 AM, SonicKeysII said:

Thanks for your comments.  Ironically, I am currently using a Roland VR-09 as a top board and thinking of getting the CK-61 to replace it.  Not sure if that is the right way to go or not.  Thinking of a Numa X Piano 73 as a replacement bottom board.  Looking for light and compact equipment.

As mentioned above, the Roland's weakness is AP and EP. If you like those in the Numa, then I'd probably keep the Roland for its better rotary sim. But it depends if things like onboard speakers and USB audio are useful to you.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[konaboy]

hopefully of some help to those of you curious about the organ models and ck rotary simulator. compared to YC and real miced-up leslie.

 

[pjd]

Thanks for posting that video -- nice deconstruction!

 

I think someone could A/B a Reface YC against the video as the settings are explicitly visible.

 

The comparisons against a real Leslie and YC61 are helpful. Hate to say it, but the CK rotary has a phase-y-ness that I don't hear in the for-real Leslie. Of course, YMMV due to the way things are recorded and so forth. I'm interested in other opinions as to authenticity.

 

All the best -- pj

 

[mrk7421]

I HAVE SOME BASIC ck QUESTIONS...

 

Is this the same acoustic sample... CFX...as the Yamaha CP4?  Or is it compromised in some way?

 

Am I hearing things or is there VIBRATO on organ percussion when chorus vibrato engaged?If so this would be the same scenario as the Roland VR09.

 

I have had hands on the CK 61 and liked it. I guess I don't expect a great leslie sim or chorus vibrato. I will say I am not wild about very many leslie sims...they seem to affect the basic organ tone too much. Percussion seemed decent on the CK.It would probably sound good through a real leslie.

 

Interesting it has taken Yamaha this long to take some attempts at drawbar organ.

[mrk7421]

Is this thread dead?.....How is that CFX compared to its predescessors? If I had unlimited funds ....I would get one and use it as a module for a CP5 I have as a controller. I also like the idea of a 61 running on batteries for summer outings.

 

The local piano store will be carrying the CK. At least it is accessible...unlike some Rolands I have still yet to hear such as the FP 90x

Quote

K

 

 

[ap297]

Yamaha CK88 vs. Studiologic Numa X Piano would make for an interesting review..

[konaboy]

1 hour ago, ap297 said:

Yamaha CK88 vs. Studiologic Numa X Piano would make for an interesting review..

I got you covered, here's the first part!

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

5 hours ago, konaboy said:

I got you covered, here's the first part!

 

Hey woody thanks for that but just a heads up the audio drops out half way thru. Cheers 

[konaboy]

5 hours ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

Hey woody thanks for that but just a heads up the audio drops out half way thru. Cheers 

thanks for getting back to me, but I think it must be something on your end...?

[AUSSIEKEYS]

1 hour ago, konaboy said:

thanks for getting back to me, but I think it must be something on your end...?

 

I thought so too so i read the comments to make sure it was my end but there is a number of replies on your youtube comments section saying the same problem

 

Starts with the 78RD at 2:37. Not everone mentioned it but a fair number did. 

[konaboy]

36 minutes ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

I thought so too so i read the comments to make sure it was my end but there is a number of replies on your youtube comments section saying the same problem

 

Starts with the 78RD at 2:37. Not everone mentioned it but a fair number did. 

you know what, I think the yamaha preset has some weird stereo widening going on.

i got a hunch you were listening in mono...?

[AUSSIEKEYS]

1 minute ago, konaboy said:

you know what, I think the yamaha preset has some weird stereo widening going on.

i got a hunch you were listening in mono...?

 

Hey may be the problem although its on both keyboatds as from that point all sounds on both keyboards are so low I couldnt discern any nuances.

 

Im listeming on a phone so in mono 

 

not everyone mentioned it so others maybe on computer

[konaboy]

1 minute ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

Hey may be the problem although its on both keyboatds as from that point all sounds on both keyboards are so low I couldnt discern any nuances.

 

Im listeming on a phone so in mono 

 

not everyone mentioned it so others maybe on computer

 

nice, then that explains it, or at least explains why only some people notice. it doesn't make sense though that both the numa and ck would have that effect.  First I recorded acoustic and electric on the CK, then did another recording on the Numa. Maybe something got screwed up in the video edit.  I never monitor in mono so won't notice.

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

33 minutes ago, konaboy said:

 

nice, then that explains it, or at least explains why only some people notice. it doesn't make sense though that both the numa and ck would have that effect.  First I recorded acoustic and electric on the CK, then did another recording on the Numa. Maybe something got screwed up in the video edit.  I never monitor in mono so won't notice.

 

 

Thought id point it out here away from comments as sometimes it gets lost in the noise of comments.

 

Definately something amiss the last half of the recording is so low when on a phone youd give up listening.

 

Hope this helps. Ive listened to many of your videos over the years and this one definately is screwy for some of us. Lets blame the phones.

[konaboy]

this one is dedicated to you  @AUSSIEKEYS

thanks for the help with the troubleshooting!

 

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

1 hour ago, konaboy said:

this one is dedicated to you  @AUSSIEKEYS

thanks for the help with the troubleshooting!

 

 

 

Yep now perfect on my phone. 

[ap297]

Frankly both sound very good. For weekend warriors who play on cramped stages in mono via a single powered  speaker I wonder if either Ck88 or Numa Piano X come out ahead on piano/epiano-type sounds.

My guess is that the Achilles heel with either is in the B3 organ department. Certainly not ideal to play organ on weighted actions ( btw on the matter of weighted actions, which feels better - CK88 or Numa Piano X?), but weekend warriors want/try to get by on one keyboard.

Am thinking one solution is Vb3m on a tablet (my case it's an android tablet). Does either offer advantages there? I see the CK88 offers 9 sliders for drawbars,  but are percussion, chorus/vibrato, leslie slow/fast bottons able to control tnose parameters vb3m?

I wish I could try them side -by-side. Correct me if I'm wrong but CK88 seems more "prosumer" vs Numa which appears more "pro-level"...but frankly hard for me to judge based on youtube videos.

[konaboy]

10 hours ago, ap297 said:

Frankly both sound very good. For weekend warriors who play on cramped stages in mono via a single powered  speaker I wonder if either Ck88 or Numa Piano X come out ahead on piano/epiano-type sounds.

My guess is that the Achilles heel with either is in the B3 organ department. Certainly not ideal to play organ on weighted actions ( btw on the matter of weighted actions, which feels better - CK88 or Numa Piano X?), but weekend warriors want/try to get by on one keyboard.

Am thinking one solution is Vb3m on a tablet (my case it's an android tablet). Does either offer advantages there? I see the CK88 offers 9 sliders for drawbars,  but are percussion, chorus/vibrato, leslie slow/fast bottons able to control tnose parameters vb3m?

I wish I could try them side -by-side. Correct me if I'm wrong but CK88 seems more "prosumer" vs Numa which appears more "pro-level"...but frankly hard for me to judge based on youtube videos.

i've got a comparison of the features and "feel" of both coming soon, so keep eye out for that.

[Adan]

12 hours ago, ap297 said:

 

Am thinking one solution is Vb3m on a tablet (my case it's an android tablet). Does either offer advantages there? I see the CK88 offers 9 sliders for drawbars,  but are percussion, chorus/vibrato, leslie slow/fast bottons able to control tnose parameters vb3m?

I wish I could try them side -by-side. Correct me if I'm wrong but CK88 seems more "prosumer" vs Numa which appears more "pro-level"...but frankly hard for me to judge based on youtube videos.

For me, drawbar control is the main thing, and that's an obvious advantage for the CK over the Numa.  I would typically assign leslie fast/slow to a foot pedal and percussion to the mod wheel, so having dedicated buttons for those is irrelevant.  Chorus is set-it-and-forget-it.  Again, that's just me.

 

The CK61 works well for me at a VB3/B3X controller.  I'd also say that if you comparing the onboard organ sounds, CK is clearly better than the organ patches on the Numa.  The CK aspires to be a real clone, whereas the Numa doesn't even hold that aspiration.

 

Because you've referred to a distinction between pro versus amateur, however inadvertent, tangential or oblique, you're banned from the forum for 6 weeks.  Sorry, but them's the rules!

[Fleer]

Interesting first take by our forum colleague Paul J. Drongowski:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-yes-i-played-one/

[aronnelson]

Amazon made a mistake. $999 for CK88!

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-61-Key-Keyboard-Built-Speakers/dp/B0BTQ2BFHD/ref=sr_1_1?crid=IOW0MHGZ41PD&keywords=yamaha%2BCK88&qid=1684208588&sprefix=yamaha%2Bck88%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5&th=1

 

Go for it! LOL

 

But picture is correct so???

[pjd]

18 hours ago, Fleer said:

Interesting first take by our forum colleague Paul J. Drongowski:

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-ck88-yes-i-played-one/

 

Hi Fleer --

 

Thanks for posting that link. I meant to say something about the built-in speakers and added comments to the post. (See below).

 

All the best -- pj

 

I played and listened to the CK88 through its built-in speakers. The built-in speakers are a bit unusual for Yamaha stage/synth instruments, but not so for its digital pianos and arranger keyboards. The CK88 has sufficient volume for practice and maybe enough for an acoustic-level rehearsal. Thus, I put the CK's speakers in the "courtesy speaker" category. Being 2x6W, 12cm by 6cm ovals, they are not unlike the courtesy speakers on the Case CT-S1000V (or S500) -- just OK. They are not boxy, something I don't tolerate under any circumstance.
 

[LarsHarner2]

On 5/15/2023 at 11:46 PM, aronnelson said:

Amazon made a mistake. $999 for CK88!

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-61-Key-Keyboard-Built-Speakers/dp/B0BTQ2BFHD/ref=sr_1_1?crid=IOW0MHGZ41PD&keywords=yamaha%2BCK88&qid=1684208588&sprefix=yamaha%2Bck88%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-1&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5&th=1

 

Go for it! LOL

 

But picture is correct so???

they have them flip flopped on the button, below the button they have the name and dimensions correct 

[LarsHarner2]

On 5/16/2023 at 1:54 PM, pjd said:

 

Hi Fleer --

 

Thanks for posting that link. I meant to say something about the built-in speakers and added comments to the post. (See below).

 

All the best -- pj

 

I played and listened to the CK88 through its built-in speakers. The built-in speakers are a bit unusual for Yamaha stage/synth instruments, but not so for its digital pianos and arranger keyboards. The CK88 has sufficient volume for practice and maybe enough for an acoustic-level rehearsal. Thus, I put the CK's speakers in the "courtesy speaker" category. Being 2x6W, 12cm by 6cm ovals, they are not unlike the courtesy speakers on the Case CT-S1000V (or S500) -- just OK. They are not boxy, something I don't tolerate under any circumstance.
 

I've had the CK61 and would agree about the speakers; having them is a + , but they are not as good as the P125 (extra watts and extra speakers). However, I'd be hard pressed to find such a value as the CK- 1) internal speakers 2) batteries and 3) 12" pounds  4) layering of sounds.

 

*Also of note when you first get the board and try it there is a global setting for audio output which does raise the volume of the keyboard- its great.

 

Perhaps when I take it out I will use with my Electro Voice 

[voxfan]

According to the CK61 manual, you CAN adjust the rotary speed using the Effects panel and Trm/Rtr. I don't own one, so if a member who has one could check to see if you can indeed adjust the rotary speed, that would be great as it seems the too fast speed is a sticking point with the model. Unless I"m confusing this with the tines rotary effect?

 

Effect>Trm/Rtr> Simple Rotary Simple rotary speaker effect. Turn the [DEPTH] knob to adjust the volume and distortion level, and the [RATE] knob to adjust the rotation speed.

[Rand L]

18 hours ago, voxfan said:

According to the CK61 manual, you CAN adjust the rotary speed using the Effects panel and Trm/Rtr. I don't own one, so if a member who has one could check to see if you can indeed adjust the rotary speed, that would be great as it seems the too fast speed is a sticking point with the model. Unless I"m confusing this with the tines rotary effect?

 

Effect>Trm/Rtr> Simple Rotary Simple rotary speaker effect. Turn the [DEPTH] knob to adjust the volume and distortion level, and the [RATE] knob to adjust the rotation speed.

Voxfan, under Drive, there is Rotary A and Rotary B with a depth adjustment only, controls drive, no rate control for speed. Rotary B is a better B3 sounding Leslie.  In Effects, there is a simple rotary option that is the same as Rotary A in the drive section.  Effects does have a rate knob, and at rate 64, seems to be the default used in Drive.  With Rotary Speed on high, it does sound better at a rate of about 30 to 35.  The problem would be that rate is to slow when changing back to slow speed, not to even mention again that it is the weaker of the 2 rotary options.

Overall, the H patches, for Hammond, is the weakest part of the board.  Maybe used at a practice or on a 3 lowest drawbars and on slow rotary only song.  If you have an Ipad, or Iphone, with interface built in so no worrying about audio out, you can map all the sliders and knobs to any CC control, and even separate lower and upper drawbar CC numbers.  For any buttons, except for Rotary speed which is #9, it still uses Sysex, so you would need a translator like Keystage if you had to have the exact same buttons control what it says. An example for B3X, there are 18 non drawbar CC sliders and knobs and 2 foot pedal CC#2 f you don't want to go down the Keystage route to control Vib/Chr and Pec and the other midi controllers listed.