Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

No one seems excited about showing us what the drive sounds like on organ.  Although, it sounds pretty good on Rhodes.  

The Leslie sounds more like tremolo, even in stereo.  Which is unfortunate. 

 

Yeah, no in-depth demos of the organ section yet. There are two different Leslie effects in it (Rotary A and B), not counting the additional one available as a general insert effect (which I assume, as on the YC, is not controllable by the dedicated slow/fast rotary button). Hopefully people can find one that they're reasonably content with.

[AnotherScott]

Here's a nice demo, again on the 61, with a bunch of organ at 1:30

 

 

 

[HSS]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Here's a nice demo, again on the 61, with a bunch of organ at 1:30

 

 

 

IMHO the organ in this video sounds better to my ears than in previous videos where it sounded pretty bad. The Leslie sim still sounds pretty lame. Of course, I already expect Yamaha's the AP's, EP's, strings, pads, etc. to be good.

 

I am still curious about how the CK's onboard speakers compare to the P121/ 125's which IMO are pretty good for what they are. I know the CK's speaker specs aren't as good as the P121's / 125's but I'm still hopeful they'll sound almost as good. As a result, I'm anxious for hands-on reports from KC'ers. 

 

The lack of onboard drum patterns is still a bit annoying to me for a self-contained hybrid home / stage board but I guess one could just use the CK's Bluetooth audio with a drum app on a smartphone without going through the hassle of loading 'em on a USB stick or running a line in.

 

All things considered, I'm very tempted by the CK. I'm also already thinking I can pick up a RD88 on the cheap as folks unload them to get a CK88. 😉

[Charleston]

3 hours ago, HSS said:

The lack of onboard drum patterns is still a bit annoying to me for a self-contained hybrid home / stage board but I guess one could just use the CK's Bluetooth audio with a drum app on a smartphone without going through the hassle of loading 'em on a USB stick or running a line in.

 

Speaking of that, does anyone have a recommendation for a nice Android app with good presets of standard drum beats/patterns? 

Weeding through 1000's on the PlayStore is a daunting task....

[HSS]

20 hours ago, Charleston said:

 

Speaking of that, does anyone have a recommendation for a nice Android app with good presets of standard drum beats/patterns? 

Weeding through 1000's on the PlayStore is a daunting task.

I agree. The choices are overwhelming.  FWIW... For Android, I use "Drum Loops & Metronome", "Loopz", and "Drumgenius".  Given that I'm notoriously cheap, I prefer the first two apps because they give you the most free drum loops before you have to pay. 

[Charleston]

44 minutes ago, HSS said:

I agree. The choices are overwhelming.  FWIW... For Android, I use "Drum Loops & Metronome", "Loopz", and "Drumgenius".  

I'm looking those up now. Thanks. Like you said, might be helpful with the CK.

[Ibarch]

On 3/25/2023 at 4:08 PM, HSS said:

All things considered, I'm very tempted by the CK. I'm also already thinking I can pick up a RD88 on the cheap as folks unload them to get a CK88. 

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. Can't see many Roland owners crossing to the dark side and swapping to a Yamaha 😂

I for one will be keeping my RD-88. 

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. Can't see many Roland owners crossing to the dark side and swapping to a Yamaha 😂

I for one will be keeping my RD-88. 

You know what would be a nice offering from Roland?  Something like the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S and A for Roland Cloud members.  If you’re already paying the Roland cloud subscription and have Zenology and their other models running on your laptop, why do we need to pony up for processors to run the software in the keyboards?  Give us two price points - a cheap action controller and a premium action controller ($300 - $1k).  

[Fleer]

9 hours ago, Ibarch said:

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. Can't see many Roland owners crossing to the dark side and swapping to a Yamaha 😂

I for one will be keeping my RD-88. 

Same here. Zenology 2.0 looks mighty fine and plays well with that RD. 

[Sam Mullins]

I've been off the Yamaha train for several years and haven't played a recent "GHS" action.  I tried to find one of the existing GHS (MODX8, MX88) models to play locally to no avail.  Understanding that these things are inevitably subjective, can someone comment just on the general quality of the action.  I can deal with differences  as long as it isn't a cheap, noisy/clacky keybed (e.g. when I transitioned from S90ES to Stage 2, it took me a while but in the end i was fine with it.)  How does the current Yamaha GHS compare to say the Stage 2/3 weighted 88?

 

Contemplating complete overhaul of rig to be much lighter than current Stage 3/Kronos...for later this year.  Would definitely make a trip to Chicago to play a CK88 before making any decision, but wondering whether it's even a candidate based on keybed.... any thoughts appreciated.

 

Sam

 

[stoken6]

42 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

How does the current Yamaha GHS compare to say the Stage 2/3 weighted 88?

I think the marketing would say that the GHS is more of a "budget/entry-level" action. Perhaps comparable to the Casio actions. 

 

My opinion: much better than the TP/100 in comparable lightweight/low cost boards. Not quite as good as the TP/40 in the Nords, I find it highly playable and completely acceptable in the P125, CP73 and MODX8 that I've tried.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[HSS]

55 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

I've been off the Yamaha train for several years and haven't played a recent "GHS" action.  I tried to find one of the existing GHS (MODX8, MX88) models to play locally to no avail.  Understanding that these things are inevitably subjective, can someone comment just on the general quality of the action. 

FWIW... I currently have a P121 and MX88 and their GHS actions feel different to me.  I compared them side by side last week and the MX 88's action feels lighter and faster than the P121's.  As a result, I don't know if one can extrapolate how the CK88's GHS action will feel based on other GHS actions in other Yamaha boards.  Of course, this is subjective and just my opinion. I should mention that I've had the MX88 longer than the P121 so maybe it's just more "broken in" or it has a different pivot length (?) or maybe I'm just wrong; I don't know.

[AnotherScott]

36 minutes ago, HSS said:

FWIW... I currently have a P121 and MX88 and their GHS actions feel different to me.  I compared them side by side last week and the MX 88's action feels lighter and faster than the P121's.  As a result, I don't know if one can extrapolate how the CK88's GHS action will feel based on other GHS actions in other Yamaha boards.  Of course, this is subjective and just my opinion. I should mention that I've had the MX88 longer than the P121 so maybe it's just more "broken in" or it has a different pivot length (?) or maybe I'm just wrong; I don't know.

 

It's a mystery. Back when the MODX8 was first released, I played a DGX-660 and the MODX8 side by side at a Guitar Center (both being GHS), the DGX felt a lot better, I really liked that one. Yes, it had been on the floor longer, but I'm always skeptical of the "broken in" argument because people play more in the center than at the extremes (especially on an 88), and even as boards get old, you never really notice the center changing relative to the extremes. So I think it's more likely that there are possible design changes, or things that vary (intentionally or not) over different production runs, or differences in things that aren't specifically part of the action but may affect how it plays, like the rigidity of the chassis and how the key structure is mounted to it... who knows? And if you're comparing with the power on, there are also the variables of how the sound is velocity-mapped to the keys, and whether the board has speakers, which can also affect the tactile sensation. If the CK88 feels like that DGX did, I think I will happily buy it. If it feels like that MODX did, probably not.

[Sam Mullins]

Thanks all....sounds like it's a possibility that I would find it acceptable but will obviously have to play one to be sure.  I can continue plotting

 

[pjd]

1 hour ago, HSS said:

FWIW... I currently have a P121 and MX88 and their GHS actions feel different to me.  I compared them side by side last week and the MX 88's action feels lighter and faster than the P121's.

 

This observation and discussion pops up on YamahaSynth.com, too. Phil (Bad Mister) swears that the keybed designs are the same -- if it says GHS, then it's GHS. I try to keep an open mind because players aren't fools. 🙂

 

The only objective thing I can say is the FSX synth action (Montage, Genos) is definitely better built and more playable (IMHO) than anything in the mid-range (PSR SX or MODX).

 

Pretty much everything else is try-before-buy, Caveat emptor, yada-yada  -- pj

 

[Tommy OnIt]

Z

On 3/22/2023 at 10:06 PM, LarsHarner2 said:

Just ordered the 61 version for $850. Perhaps it was a good sign last week when I couldn't order a Liano and I am picking this over the Numa COmpact 2x. 

Hi Lars. Congrats! Sounds like you got a great price! Where did you buy it from? I’m glad you didn’t order the compact 2x. I had one it was really crappy. Had super cheap sliders and knobs. Cheap crappy action. I expected it to be better because it was studiologic. Really nice organ sounds. And it was only 15 pounds. Super light and easy to carry. No battery operation. But the sliders were unreliable and would often “move” when you didn’t want them to.

I ended up trading it in.

Currently using a Roland RD88 for gigs. Difficult to program. No midi in. Going through menus with a push button and no rotary control is very difficult. I can go on and on about why I don’t like it. I love that it is not heavy. It’s very easy to transport to gigs. I don’t need a 20 pound case.

This new CX88 looks awesome. And reminds me of my Yamaha CP4.

Thinking about pre-ordering it myself. Let me know how you make out.

Cheers-Tom
 

[LarsHarner2]

My CK61 is on backorder so likely won't be getting to me before 4/5. 

[ewall08530]

I preordered a CK61 from Sweetwater. They said they ship to store on April 6.  I’ll keep you posted. 

[AnotherScott]

On 3/24/2023 at 1:50 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

Ok, this bloke seems to be their CK guy.   

You get to hear some full/fuller draw bars in this example. 

 

But while he's obviously a strong player in general, that sustain pedal use on his organ playing makes my ears cringe.

[ElmerJFudd]

44 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

But while he's obviously a strong player in general, that sustain pedal use on his organ playing makes my ears cringe.

I only press it when I have to hold a chord during patch change, I swear!   

[Sam Mullins]

On 3/27/2023 at 1:03 PM, pjd said:

 

This observation and discussion pops up on YamahaSynth.com, too. Phil (Bad Mister) swears that the keybed designs are the same -- if it says GHS, then it's GHS. I try to keep an open mind because players aren't fools. 🙂

 

 

I went to guitar center and played a P45 and MX-88, which are supposedly both GHS. Very different.  P45 key travel was a bit shallow and bottomed out hard but overall was acceptable. The MX-88 action was uneven, sloppy and sluggish…couldn’t deal with that. Hopefully CK88 is more like former. 
 

 

[HSS]

Assuming the CK 61's semi-weighted action is decent for piano, a semi-weighted 73 key CK coming in under 20 lbs. would hit the sweet spot for me for a portable board.  It'd be great if Yamaha could make it backpackable like the semi-weighted Nord Electro 73's and keep the max length at ~42" so it could fit in a lot of 61 key cases.  

[EscapeRocks]

On 3/26/2023 at 12:48 PM, Ibarch said:

 

I wouldn't hold your breath. Can't see many Roland owners crossing to the dark side and swapping to a Yamaha 😂

I for one will be keeping my RD-88. 

 

I would trade my RD88 for a CK88.   I got the RD a while back as a lighter weight 88 note board to be used primarily as a controller, with great on-board sound as a fail-safe.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I really do not like it's MIDI connectivity.  The CK88 wins that battle (for me)     Now, as stand alone boards, I probably wouldn't trader my RD.

[Ibarch]

Can you share a link to these other discussions or summarise the Rd-88 midi issues — aside from the glaringly obvious missing midi Din. Genuinely interested in what they are, as not explored that side too deeply yet. On initial glance it looked ok. 

[Chummy]

I have a Casio CT-S1 as my couch/jam keyboard. I wonder how the CK61 compares to that in terms of Keyboard feel and Speaker quality/loudness. I haven't played the newest PSR so I wouldn't know. I only play an old Yamaha PSR-E343 from 2013 so they might have improved the keys since??

As for sounds, I know the Yamaha would sound 10 times better of course + it has way more functionallity.

Thanks in advance to anyone who happens to know these answers.

[Tommy OnIt]

On 3/29/2023 at 1:54 PM, EscapeRocks said:

 

I would trade my RD88 for a CK88.   I got the RD a while back as a lighter weight 88 note board to be used primarily as a controller, with great on-board sound as a fail-safe.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I really do not like it's MIDI connectivity.  The CK88 wins that battle (for me)     Now, as stand alone boards, I probably wouldn't trader my RD.

I don’t love my RD88. In fact I bought one. Returned it. Then ended up buying another. It’s light and decent. But the programming sucks. The knobs should be continuous rotary encoder.

In between I had a used Yamaha CP4 from Guitar Center for 44 days. Loved it. But it was heavy to carry to gigs and practice. And right before the return period ended, it developed a squeaky key. So I returned it and bought another RD.

Does the job. MIDI connectivity indeed sucks. No rotary controller for data entry. It’s tedious to program. And the way the EQ is set up globally really is a downer.

As far as trading. Nope, I’ll likely keep the RD even if I buy the CK.

My biggest concern now, is if I will like the GHS action.

[AnotherScott]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:18 PM, pjd said:

Front panel gizmos and 88 GHS keybed aside, the CK is 100% recycled content. That's not a slag on the CK because the content is Yammie good. However, by deep diving MODX,  I can recreate nearly every CK sound using MODX

 

I'm hoping the CK Rhodes are from the YC/CP, and not from the MODX. Because at least without any "deep diving" (of the sort that is not available on the CK anyway), the MODX Rhodes are not as good as those. I'm not saying you might not be able to get them there if your editing skills are sufficient, I don't know. But at least out of the box, to me, the MODX Rhodes are not nearly as impressive as the YC/CP ones are.

 

[1203]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I'm hoping the CK Rhodes are from the YC/CP, and not from the MODX. Because at least without any "deep diving" (of the sort that is not available on the CK anyway), the MODX Rhodes are not as good as those. I'm not saying you might not be able to get them there if your editing skills are sufficient, I don't know. But at least out of the box, to me, the MODX Rhodes are not nearly as impressive as the YC/CP ones are.

 

From what i‘ve heard from the demos, i‘m absolutely sure that the CK Rhodes are from the YC/CP, at least the great ist „RD78“ sample is in the CK. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

14 hours ago, Tommy OnIt said:

My biggest concern now, is if I will like the GHS action

 

As other have said, and is also my experience, the GHS is not the same (or at least feels not the same) in all its incarnations. I had a DGX660 for a couple years (replaced it with an acoustic) and quite liked its action. So I guess you will need to play it to decide!

 

Jose

[JFN]

11 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I'm hoping the CK Rhodes are from the YC/CP, and not from the MODX. Because at least without any "deep diving" (of the sort that is not available on the CK anyway), the MODX Rhodes are not as good as those. I'm not saying you might not be able to get them there if your editing skills are sufficient, I don't know. But at least out of the box, to me, the MODX Rhodes are not nearly as impressive as the YC/CP ones are.

 

 

Very true, and the reason the first thing I did with my MODX+ was load the Neo Soul Rhodes library. Problem solved.