Nord Stage 4 Announced

[Reezekeys]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nail, meet hammer!

[drawback]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Thank you Nord for giving us something to bitch or cheer about during this otherwise lame February.  

Yes, and it’s even on topic!

[Adan]

38 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

 

 

I actually believe the Nord Stage 4 is very much intended for the weekend warriors - or, to be more specific, for people with independent income. If you are a full-time musician piecing together work or touring small-medium-sized clubs and making, say, 30-40k/year from gigs and session work (generous, given today’s marketplace), it makes no sense to purchase this keyboard. $6k represents an enormous share of your annual earnings and you can get the same sounds just by hauling an extra gig bag or two to your jobs. It’s the folks who have independent income for a day job (of which I am one) that could afford to spend all that dough just to have the controls laid out in one place - or whatever other benefits people are talking up in this thread. Even the rich and famous touring acts might opt for other gear since the alleged benefits of using just one keyboard are lost when you have roadies. I will be surprised (and I’d love to be! Keeps things interesting) if we hear from that tier of working musicians that they are shelling out for a brand new Nord Stage 4 before the price drops or used models enter the market. 

Very well put.   Depending where you sit on the time/money continuum, it may be well worth to you to buy this, have the convenience of being able to create set ups quickly and intuitively, and deal with only one keyboard (or maybe 2 if you midi in a  2nd).  

 

I could see myself being one of those people if I was playing more synth sounds.  As it is, I'm very meat and potatoes these days, relying heavily on Hammond, APs, and EPs.  Much of the NS's power would be wasted in my hands, and I would spend too much time wishing I had a better clone, not that the Nord is shabby, but it ain't among the best IMO.

[cphollis]

Hi, shared this on the Nord User Forum, I think it's relevant here as well

--------

If you haven't seen the Anderton's video from yesterday, you should. It caused me to re-think what Nord intended with this iteration. And their thoughts and my thoughts don't necessarily overlap as much as they used to. It's all cool, though.

Watching a core Nord engineer with musical chops walk through the "Top 10 Features" was quite eye-opening for me. Much of the newer functionality is clearly aimed at newer sounds, newer music and newer performance styles with dynamic, evolving and rhythmic patterns. I am certainly interested in exploring that sonic territory, as the Nord engineer was able to communicate the essence with just a few notes and examples.

Unfortunately, they are leaving some ground behind as they advance. For those of us who play an endless series of "Hits From The 60s Through Today!", we are looking to get through our gigs as simply and powerfully as possible. A third synth layer wasn't on my wishlist, for example. Getting through three long sets using a setlist function, yes please. I also wanted to control a few external sounds via USB audio (mostly SWAM instruments on iPad) and do some signal processing on the Nord.

So, in some sense, the high-end board market has segmented into two subsegments, one that is pursuing newer music, and one that is covering older styles. I mean, that arpeggiator pump stuff was incredibly cool, but I couldn't see using it with my audiences anytime soon. I was lustfully looking at the "dynamic compression" feature, but I am sure we will see that elsewhere in the product line before long.

I do think the NS3 will be around for a while for this reason. We may even see a NS3EX, who knows?

[Synthaholic]

In case no one has posted this, here's the preview from Sound On Sound:

 

Clavia unleash Nord Stage 4 (soundonsound.com)

 

https://www.soundonsound.com/news/clavia-unleash-nord-stage-4

[allan_evett]

If I happened to be in the market for a new keyboard and was not a Nord owner, I'd be taking a serious look at the Stage 4. About a year and a half ago, RedKey graciously gave me his Wave 2 to explore for a couple days. I'm very impressed with the design of that instrument and its quick, easy-to-use  interface. My thought at the time was that that interface would be awesome in a Stage 4. Granted, for certain players a more extensive, mega-zoned keyboard is important. But two or three synth zones, and two sections of piano and organ are fine for me. If I need mega layers I can add my Fantom 7 or Nautilus 61 on second tier. 

 

The new options a Stage 4 offers would be helpful, but with all the programming work I've put into the Stage 3 it would be a major time suck to start over with Nord. If a Stage 5 happens in six years - with further-improved piano and organ tones - I may consider it. I made a very different sort of major gear purchase two days ago, when we upgraded to a 2019 Honda Passport.  So that'll likely tie the budget up until a Stage 5 appears.  But I'm also intrigued as to where a few other manufacturers end up, Korg especially.  The Nautilus EPs and clavs have jumped ahead of those in the Stage 3 - especially the Wurlys; much the same with K2700. 

 

 

[timwat]

1 hour ago, Noah DC said:

I actually believe the Nord Stage 4 is very much intended for the weekend warriors - or, to be more specific, for people with independent income. If you are a full-time musician piecing together work or touring small-medium-sized clubs and making, say, 30-40k/year from gigs and session work (generous, given today’s marketplace), it makes no sense to purchase this keyboard. $6k represents an enormous share of your annual earnings and you can get the same sounds just by hauling an extra gig bag or two to your jobs. It’s the folks who have independent income from a day job (of which I am one) that could afford to spend all that dough just to have the controls laid out in one place - or whatever other benefits people are talking up in this thread. Even the rich and famous touring acts might opt for other gear since the alleged benefits of using just one keyboard are lost when you have roadies. I will be surprised (and I’d love to be! Keeps things interesting) if we hear from that tier of working musicians that they are shelling out for a brand new Nord Stage 4 before the price drops or used models enter the market. 

For whatever it's worth, out here in the SF Bay Area, two of the full timers I respect the most both gig Stages. 

 

That's certainly not to suggest they're going to go out next month and spendy on a 4. But both these guys use Stages as their primary bottom board (sometimes in 1 board, sometimes in 2 or more board rigs), and each of these excellent players gigs all types of music across the gamut - from wedding / corporate band work, to jazzy / funky originals, to touring work, to supporting other recording artists, to big band, to everything in between.

 

Their examples suggest the use case for a top tier Swiss army knife for very good full time players is still out there, at least it suggests this to me. Some of us may disagree with that notion, and I get that.

 

Beauty of the free market, folks will eventually vote with their wallet. 

[bjosko]

Well, as usual, they are expensive in US, someone know what they want for them 🫤

Over here in Denmark, a 88 is advertised to $4918, a bit more than I would like to spend, but a 73 with HA is tempting.

Just for fun, I used an inflation tool (www.inflationtool.com), and a NS 88 today is about the same as I gave for my Roland D50 back in 1987.

[Noah DC]

2 hours ago, timwat said:

For whatever it's worth, out here in the SF Bay Area, two of the full timers I respect the most both gig Stages. 

 

That's certainly not to suggest they're going to go out next month and spendy on a 4. But both these guys use Stages as their primary bottom board (sometimes in 1 board, sometimes in 2 or more board rigs), and each of these excellent players gigs all types of music across the gamut - from wedding / corporate band work, to jazzy / funky originals, to touring work, to supporting other recording artists, to big band, to everything in between.

 

Their examples suggest the use case for a top tier Swiss army knife for very good full time players is still out there, at least it suggests this to me. Some of us may disagree with that notion, and I get that.

 

Beauty of the free market, folks will eventually vote with their wallet. 

When it comes to older models or used gear, that makes sense! I feel like a working professional buying one of the excellent Nord Stages for sale in the Garage Section for around $3k is logical and in line with what you would pay for a good bottom board for that level of player. But I also think buying a brand new Stage 4 at double that figure (again, six thousand dollars) doesn't add up without day job money. Of course, since I'm not one of those full-time working players, I could be picking the wrong threshold figure and underestimating how big a share of their income the pros are willing to spend on this kind of gear. Speculation is a great hobby!

[ProfD]

No doubt about it that Nord would have gone out of business a long time ago if they had to rely on full-time, gigging musicians to buy their KBs. 

 

Otherwise, weekend warriors and hobbyists have been the Nord customer base since day one. 

 

 Nord tapped into a market of musos with disposable money who needed bread & butter KB sounds (organ, piano, synth) in a light-weight package.

 

Nord customers can afford to drop cash on a new KB and/or sell off existing gear to put a dent in the  cost of a new purchase. 😎

[AUSSIEKEYS]

5 hours ago, CowboyNQ said:

Big Macs, and a flight from Adelaide, Australia to Los Angeles, USA with QANTAS on Tuesday 9 May will require you to come up with 128 Big Macs.

 

Maybe....but do those Big Macs come with Beetroot in them.

 

If not they arent Aussie compatible Big Macs.

 

Fair suck of the sauce bottle, cobber

[EricBarker]

15 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

With the price comparisons, remember the B3 was the same price of a new Buick Skylark. 

 

The Nord is a months security deposit for apartment rental.  

 

Not quite a fair comparison. Remember the venerable (and racist) Laurens Hammond designed the B2/B3 to be inexpensive... FOR CHURCHES, as a replacement for pipe organs. Not Individuals. And to that degree, they were cheap. Nord's entire mission statement is to create individual use keyboards for the working, gigging musician. So, I do get that the price is a bit of a sticking point. The argument is that it takes the place of 2-3 boards. I think there's a bit of truth in this way: since the mid-90s, you could take any workstation, and with enough time and forethought, zone it out to being able to do the work of many boards. But even as simple as something like the Alesis QS, it took quite a lot of work, and would require a lot of extra man-hours (on top of daily practice, rehearsal, and gigging) to choreograph those setups. Jordan Ruddess was pretty much the first person to be able to make it work with a single board (K2600) in a big complicated setup, but I've met his techs, and there was a heck of a lot of work that went into being able to make that work. The Nord Stage makes it much more feasible for the every-man to organically use a "multi-board" approach in a single unit, so in a sense, Nord's boasting isn't completely unfounded. We have to take requests and work on the fly.

I disagree that the Full Time musician is not going to need to strip down. The wear & tear on our bodies for hauling, setup, breakdown, every night of multiple instruments is a real thing to consider, and that's even more true for the nightly gigger than the weekend warrior. At the peak of my setup, I had a weighted-88, the Mojo61, Boog PolyD, Keytar, Trumpet, Seaboard Block, and all the sh*t that required. It was fun as hell on stage, but a total pain to get there. Luckily, we got a deal where we played 3-nights in a row and I could leave my kit there.

A final disclaimer: I've had the luxury of only rarely working a full time gigging musician. Most of the time I've had other work to supplement my income, though all audio and music related. For about 2 years it was about a 50/50 split. These days my day job (audio engineer for a sleep sound company) pays well enough that gigs are just walking money. So I guess I am a weekend warrior, now. But back when I was hungry and just making ends meet, a board like the Stage would have saved me a lot of setup time and back pain.

[Stokely]

Well, speaking for myself I can afford it.  But everyone has their tipping point of what they are willing to spend, even if some are higher than others.  Nord has figured there are enough "higher" types than people like me.

I won't do financing for my gear, for one thing my wife and I invest quite a bit in real estate and I like to keep my credit as high as possible for that.

Very interesting point about the old vs new music.  I kind of wonder though if people doing newer stuff wouldn't be much, much better off with laptops (even more than people doing classic stuff).  I know my plugins give me way more and easier control of things like arps and sequences than I'd expect to find on a hardware instrument, but I'm way out of my element even with that supposition!  I thank my stars I don't "have" to play top 40.  I think we do one song from the 2000s, and that is vintage-sounding! (Get Lucky).   As an aside, we had an especially "vintage" crowd at our show Wed...some guy, probably mid-70s, said "play some rock and roll, we want to dance!"  Er, what have we been playing?  Basically I think he meant "50s music" which is too classic even for us   We made an attempt, he didn't dance, oh well.

[timwat]

15 minutes ago, ProfD said:

No doubt about it that Nord would have gone out of business a long time ago if they had to rely on full-time, gigging musicians to buy their KBs. 

Is this not also true for every major KB manufacturer?

 

I'm guessing not for very specialized companies like the Manleys of the world (just my uninformed guess). But any company trying to sell a bunch of musical instruments has gotta sell to non-FT at scale to make sufficient revenue numbers, I would guess.

[EricBarker]

I really never saw the appeal of arpeggiators and sequencers on a board. In the studio... use a DAW. In live performance, play the part. The only time I can see a use is for a non-keyboard player, or a DJ. Like a guitarist triggering a sequence while they play their primary instrument, or a DJ on Ableton piloting the starship. But neither of those cases make sense for a dedicated keyboard. One you introduce sequences, you need to have at least the drummer wired up with IEMs and a click. Many young bands do it (one that I play in does), but it's a whole can of worms that you're not going to find in a nightly "working band". For many reasons, this is usually a job that's best for a laptop or dedicated hardware unit.

The only time I've ever used an arpeggiator is I get the bpm close to live tempo, and played half-note chords to re-start the pulse. Baba O'Riley style, but with chords. That can work. Otherwise, it's a much more complicated setup.

[cphollis]

If I ever started using sequences and arpeggiators live, the drummer(s) and I would have to have a very serious discussion.

[EricBarker]

Some stories imply that recorded sequences were one of the factors that lead to Keith Moon's downfall on the Quadraphenia tour. Obviously he was always self-destructive. But Roger Daltrey insisted on NOT hiring a keyboard player to play backing parts, and they made Keith wear a wire. The system was so unstable that it greatly increased stress, and it was around that time he started drinking even more heavily. Could have been one of the factors that lead to his death.

Folks, hiring Keyboardists SAVES LIVES!

[ProfD]

3 minutes ago, timwat said:

Is this not also true for every major KB manufacturer?

Sure.  But, the big 3 KB manufacturers (Yamaha, Roland, Korg) have cheaper products that rake in enough dough to offset their more expensive lines.  Also, they sell gear to schools, churches and backline companies.  It also helps that those companies have been around for many decades.😎

[jeffincltnc]

I am probably the only person in this forum who is buying one, I guess.

 

Meanwhile, I see zero competitors to the Nord Stage 4 73 HA that weigh 36 pounds, fit in the same space and are as thoughtfully designed for my preferences and how I most want to use a gigging-centric keyboard.   If I was willing to add some weight and buy an out-of-production board on the used market I think the only possibilities are a used Korg Kronos 73 or another used Kurzweil Forte 7, and based on my experiences I am 100% certain I am picking the right one for me.

[Delaware Dave]

Awww, did big red let you down????

 

https://giphy.com/gifs/audible-balloon-blah-audiobook-RMSGudFiz8KINA5aOn

[AWkeys]

Nord has been the centerpiece of my rigs for 20 years. I currently own (and use) three Nord Stage Compacts for various reasons. I'm even selling one or two of them every so often thru a dealer friend of mine who sometimes has overstock - just posted about a NS3 88 in the sales section.

 

I love my Stage 2s, and they are still my primary go-tos over the Stage 3. Reason being, they are easier to navigate on the fly. Yeah, you gotta scroll through the presets and the samples or synth presets as well, but it's pretty easy to do and you have PENDING LOAD. The wiseguys at Nord took away this feature when they redesigned the Stage 3 with seamless transition. That's really nice, but I don't want to have to use an iPad app or a computer to find programs on the fly in between songs. And I still cannot find synth presets or samples I'm looking for on the fly anywhere nearly as fast as I can on the Stage 2. However, the Stage 3 is wonderful to use when I'm doing a show with a setlist. The synth section is a real step up from the Stage 2. But they also changed the MIDI specs in the Stage 3 and it behaves frustratingly differently than the Stage 2. I thought you were supposed to ADD to the features, not take away. Grrrr. 

 

Anyway, the Stage 4 is yet another redesign and I'm sure it'll be amazing to those just getting into the Stage series. It's a bummer that we are still on the C2 organ engine and they haven't updated the Wurly or Clavinet for years. I'm going to wait and see what they did THIS time to the functionality. Meanwhile, I'll keep working with what I got.

[jerrythek]

Over the last 10 years or so, I have seen so many red keyboards on stages of touring acts, bar bands and wedding/convention-type bands. So to say that gigging musicians don't make up a good percentage of Nord sales would seem wrong to me. I personally don't think that well-off home musos make up that much of the Nord audience. I don't have qualified statistics to back up that perception, but I've been in the biz for a long time, and I still trust my instincts/perceptions.

 

Just saying...

[Sam Mullins]

12 minutes ago, jerrythek said:

Over the last 10 years or so, I have seen so many red keyboards on stages of touring acts, bar bands and wedding/convention-type bands. So to say that gigging musicians don't make up a good percentage of Nord sales would seem wrong to me. I personally don't think that well-off home musos make up that much of the Nord audience. I don't have qualified statistics to back up that perception, but I've been in the biz for a long time, and I still trust my instincts/perceptions.

 

Just saying...

Yeah...I have no data either but see lots of touring bands with them.  

OTOH, I've never been a full-time musician and given my limited talent, I doubt I could have afforded one if I was   But old age and a fruitful engineering career now allows me to buy expensive toys.  Not like when I was 30 with young kids, a mortgage and was trying to figure out how to cover all these songs with a Yamaha P90 and a Roland JV-1010 module.  

[Sam Mullins]

18 minutes ago, AWkeys said:

But they also changed the MIDI specs in the Stage 3 and it behaves frustratingly differently than the Stage 2. I thought you were supposed to ADD to the features, not take away. Grrrr. 

 

 Yeah, I had to reprogram a bunch of stuff because of this when I went from Stage 2 to Stage 3.   It's that kind of stuff (combined with not really needing any of the new features) that means I will likely pass on Stage 4.  

[AnotherScott]

30 minutes ago, AWkeys said:

I love my Stage 2s, and they are still my primary go-tos over the Stage 3.

Yes, they each have strengths.

 

Advantages of the NS2/2EX over the NS3 include pending load, bank buttons, endless encoders with LED rings for some synth and fx parameters (for visual indication of current settings and morph status, and no jumping when you move the controls), latch/KB gate, more flexible MIDI control, and more complete clav EQ emulation. But the NS3 has the improved more informative display, seamless sound transitions, a more capable synth section, more polyphony, more sample memory, more morphable destinations, 4 definable zones instead of 3, improved Leslie effect, song mode, crossfades, pipe organ, compatibility with newest sample enhancements (piano EQ filters, nsmp3), and on the 73, the advantages of a low E (though the 2EX had that too), real drawbars, and an action that I find improved in terms of its piano playability. The Monitor input only goes to the headphones on the 2 while it also goes to the main outs on the 3... I guess which is better depends on what you're trying to do with it, but I think the latter is more useful overall.

 

Personally, not counting the NS4, if I wanted an 88, I'd probably pick the Stage 2EX. If I wanted a 76, I'd probably pick the Stage 2 (for its action over the newer). If I wanted a more organ-oriented SW 73, I'd probably pick the NS3. All subject to change as I get to know the NS4.

[jazzpiano88]

7 hours ago, MAJUSCULE said:

RE:  Nord Stage 4 being the cost of a security deposit.
Not sure where you live but that’s a pricey apartment! After sales tax (and I live in a place that has no provincial tax), a Stage 4 88 would run me back about eight months of my mortgage. And that’s before accessories! 😬

 

True.  More like Security deposit + first and last month's rent.

 

[cphollis]

I dunno, a nice Martin acoustic guitar can easily run over $6k.  And I see plenty of those around!

[jazzpiano88]

8 hours ago, Noah DC said:

I actually believe the Nord Stage 4 is very much intended for the weekend warriors - or, to be more specific, for people with independent income. If you are a full-time musician piecing together work or touring small-medium-sized clubs and making, say, 30-40k/year from gigs and session work (generous, given today’s marketplace), it makes no sense to purchase this keyboard. $6k represents an enormous share of your annual earnings and you can get the same sounds just by hauling an extra gig bag or two to your jobs. It’s the folks who have independent income from a day job (of which I am one) that could afford to spend all that dough just to have the controls laid out in one place - or whatever other benefits people are talking up in this thread. Even the rich and famous touring acts might opt for other gear since the alleged benefits of using just one keyboard are lost when you have roadies. I will be surprised (and I’d love to be! Keeps things interesting) if we hear from that tier of working musicians that they are shelling out for a brand new Nord Stage 4 before the price drops or used models enter the market. 

 

Definitely agree with your concept.   On the other hand, for the full-time musician it's a business expense that will 1:1 offset your gross income, so you can make it up in tax savings.  With the pace of today's technology, and the rowdy-club wear and tear argument, you don't even have to treat it as a capital expenditure and depreciate it.

[OrpheusNY]

While Nords are expensive keyboards, one might count one’s blessings that one is not a professional violinist.

 

in violin world a just a quality bow can easily cost the same as a Stage 4. Then there’s the fiddle.

 

I  think Nords should be awarded points for their durability and longevity, which means you can amortize the cost over a decade or longer. Look at all the folks on this thread still using Stage 2s.

 

What Nords and violins do have in common is they both  tend to hold their value pretty well.

 

but man,  good violins are expensive.

 

signed,

 

father of a violinist 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, OrpheusNY said:

While Nords are expensive keyboards, one might count one’s blessings that one is not a professional violinist.

 

in violin world a just a quality bow can easily cost the same as a Stage 4. Then there’s the fiddle.

 

I  think Nords should be awarded points for their durability and longevity, which means you can amortize the cost over a decade or longer. Look at all the folks on this thread still using Stage 2s.

 

What Nords and violins do have in common is they both  tend to hold their value pretty well.

 

but man,  good violins are expensive.

 

signed,

 

father of a violinist 

I feel your pain but believe there is a sense of pride in your child achieving a level of play that would warrant an artisan crafted bow and fiddle.  Those mass produced factory born sticks are for noobs.  😊