Nord Stage 4 Announced

[EricBarker]

Some world-class violinist and MANY cellists don't even own their instruments, they're on indefinite loan from wealthy donors.

However, think about this. It's only in the last 70 years or so that keyboardists could even consider performing on our own instrument! Before then we were at the behest of whatever was in the hall/club. The downside is that every venue HAD to have a house piano, now that's rarely the case.

[analogika]

19 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Definitely agree with your concept.   On the other hand, for the full-time musician it's a business expense that will 1:1 offset your gross income, so you can make it up in tax savings.  With the pace of today's technology, and the rowdy-club wear and tear argument, you don't even have to treat it as a capital expenditure and depreciate it.

also, consider that the cost is partly offset by the sale of the previous instrument. 
 

Were I to opt for a Stage 4, I’d do so knowing I would sell the 3, just as I sold the 2 to get that. 

[jazzpiano88]

How do people feel about the synth section?  Can it hold its own against yeoman's-level dedicated boards?

My guess is that the targeted market isn't going to be bent out of shape if they can't perfectly re-implement Rush's Tom Sawyer (for which it can sort of approximate to my surprise).

 

I was looking at the synth section and it seemed to have very little real estate for all of the claims of real time control, so I'm guessing this is more marketing and people actually use presets in this portion of the engine.

 

Just off the top of my head it looks like the following are absent:

1.  No sine wave LFO shape (perhaps triangle is supposed to be similar enough?)

2. No LFO modulation of oscillator pulse width  (not even sure what they call the variable pulse width oscillator wave shape).

 

My impression is that it's good enough for government synthesis, but anyone who is even remotely synth focused would never use this instrument for it.  Which again calls into question the price.   Can you imagine....  Springing for the Stage 4 and then midi-ing it up to a GX80  (which doesn't even make a dent in the sales tax) ??? 

 

Given all this...   Crappy organ (consensus),  Crappy Synth (hypothesis, see above),  Piano people either love or hate (empirical),  where's the beef?

[jeffincltnc]

Wave 2 is most definitely not a crappy synth once you know what it is and what it isn’t.  It’s my tool of choice as the top board in an 80’s new wave tribute band that gigs a lot.  Sounds great, really fast to create the patches I need to with its workflow, built like a tank and very light to carry.

[analogika]

34 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

How do people feel about the synth section?  Can it hold its own against yeoman's-level dedicated boards?

My guess is that the targeted market isn't going to be bent out of shape if they can't perfectly re-implement Rush's Tom Sawyer (for which it can sort of approximate to my surprise).

 

I was looking at the synth section and it seemed to have very little real estate for all of the claims of real time control, so I'm guessing this is more marketing and people actually use presets in this portion of the engine.

 

Just off the top of my head it looks like the following are absent:

1.  No sine wave LFO shape (perhaps triangle is supposed to be similar enough?)

2. No LFO modulation of oscillator pulse width  (not even sure what they call the variable pulse width oscillator wave shape).

 

My impression is that it's good enough for government synthesis, but anyone who is even remotely synth focused would never use this instrument for it.  Which again calls into question the price.   Can you imagine....  Springing for the Stage 4 and then midi-ing it up to a GX80  (which doesn't even make a dent in the sales tax) ??? 

 

Given all this...   Crappy organ (consensus),  Crappy Synth (hypothesis, see above),  Piano people either love or hate (empirical),  where's the beef?

Interesting. I mean, I get that people point at the decisions made in any synth ever built in order to justify hating on it, for whatever personal reason. 
 

Like, I’ve been ranting for forty years about these complete pieces of shit Moog built. None of them ever even had a sine-wave LFO. Not one. 
 

Consensus is that the Memorymoog is a crappy synth, for this reason. 
 

BTW, the LFO can be assigned to „Osc Control“ from the images seen so far. 
 

What are the odds that one of the oscillator modes has a pulse wave where the oscillator control knob affects pulse width? 
 

Either way, it’s amazing to me to read on a keyboard site, no less, the sentiment that features are what make an instrument, and lack of particular features makes an instrument a bad instrument. 
 

My stupid piano doesn’t even have polyphonic portamento. How lame is that? 

[jeffincltnc]

The way I see it, Nord is giving me the right tools for the show I am doing.  The other players are excellent musicians, the soundman is good and knows where keyboards belong in the mix, the lights look good, crowds are into the show.  That’s really what makes it worth it.

 

I don’t really get any negative energy that my rotary effect must be a better Leslie sim (although I do use a Tall&Fat, Vent 2 and reverb pedal if I really feel motivated to do so), or that my Rhodes sample hasn’t been updated since 2016 or my pianos are not fully mapped and I’m only using an L size piano instead of an XL one.

 

Doesn’t bother anyone and the show is doing well.

 

I use a lot of the product - make my own patches quickly, use samples, arp, mod wheel, effects, and move through the show quickly.  Also load in and pack up quickly with reasonable size and weight to carry.

 

I can sell my Nord Stage 3 after a few years for nearly what I paid for originally and the upgrade cost difference isn’t more than I would pay for a set of powered speakers, including that I am upgrading from a Compact to an HA package in the process.  I more than funded this difference selling a board that was sitting in my closet and not getting used.
 

I don’t see what the anger is all about to be honest.

[niacin]

46 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

How do people feel about the synth section?  Can it hold its own against yeoman's-level dedicated boards?

My guess is that the targeted market isn't going to be bent out of shape if they can't perfectly re-implement Rush's Tom Sawyer (for which it can sort of approximate to my surprise).

 

I was looking at the synth section and it seemed to have very little real estate for all of the claims of real time control, so I'm guessing this is more marketing and people actually use presets in this portion of the engine.

 

Just off the top of my head it looks like the following are absent:

1.  No sine wave LFO shape (perhaps triangle is supposed to be similar enough?)

2. No LFO modulation of oscillator pulse width  (not even sure what they call the variable pulse width oscillator wave shape).

 

My impression is that it's good enough for government synthesis, but anyone who is even remotely synth focused would never use this instrument for it.  Which again calls into question the price.   Can you imagine....  Springing for the Stage 4 and then midi-ing it up to a GX80  (which doesn't even make a dent in the sales tax) ??? 

 

Given all this...   Crappy organ (consensus),  Crappy Synth (hypothesis, see above),  Piano people either love or hate (empirical),  where's the beef?

Plenty of synth-focused folks bought the Wave 2 found in the Stage 4, and indeed that A1 found in the Stage 3 upon which it is based.  While the Stage 4 has only just been announced there are plenty of reviews and videos of the Wave 2 that show that your 'impression' isn't a widely shared one.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, JazzPiano88 said:

How do people feel about the synth section? 

Considering the Nord Stage is a performance-oriented KB, the synth section provides access to the sounds a KB player needs to get through a gig.

 

IMO, the Nord Stage synth section is not intended to be a full-fledged sound design tool.😎

[stillearning]

I’ve traded my way up through the Nord Stage lineage starting with the original Stage, and bought a Stage 3 88 as soon as they came out. It’s covered every synth part I’ve ever needed with no complaints, and I can program on the fly when requests are shouted out. I feel very much like I’m their target market, these aren’t aimed at synth geeks.

[AnotherScott]

12 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

How do people feel about the synth section?  Can it hold its own against yeoman's-level dedicated boards?... it seemed to have very little real estate for all of the claims of real time control

It may be months before any of us can play one, and there's not even a manual yet... but based on it being much of a Nord Wave 2, sonically, it should make a lot of people happy. How "knobby" it seems is is going to be a partly a matter of how they've implemented the screen with the 3 endless controllers under it, I guess.

 

12 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

My impression is that it's good enough for government synthesis, but anyone who is even remotely synth focused would never use this instrument for it.  Which again calls into question the price.  

Well, the NS4 is cheaper and generally more flexible than the combination of the Nord Wave 2 and Electro 6D. So it would seem to depend on what you're looking for.

 

12 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Given all this...   Crappy organ (consensus),  Crappy Synth (hypothesis, see above),  Piano people either love or hate (empirical),  where's the beef?

Organ is near the top of clonewheel boards that also have a full range of other sounds (e.g. better organ than Korg/Vox, Roland, Kurzweil, Dexibell). The only one that I think is clearly better is Hammond SK Pro. And maybe a tough call against the Yamaha YC series. And while this is subjective of course, I think Nord's pianos are the best of this bunch.

 

Synth is also probably competitive with the other boards that aren't dedicated synths... I think Nautilus and Fantom are the only real competitors here (with at least good touchscreen interfaces even if lean on hard controls), and IMO, both of those lag the Nord in piano and organ.

 

 

[stoken6]

A lot of the gripes at this point in the thread are "the piano isn't X", "the organ doesn't Y" or "the synth can't Z".

 

It is undeniable that you can get a better piano than Nord's (Yamaha would be my choice for AP and Crumar for EP), a better organ (Hammond, obvs) and a better synth (fill in your choice, I'm not a connoisseur). The Stage MO is that it puts them together in one place. I've posted many years ago that the Nord has a mighty fine piano for a clonewheel, and a decent organ for a stage piano - and that's before we start thinking about the synth section.

 

There were also comments earlier about some of the new features leaned into more modern styles. I will say that (with my ageing NS2) I do use the arpeggiator a fair amount. I use it to create "sparkly" synth patch in this song (time 01:35), for example. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Adan]

It's interesting that 18 years after the Nord Stage was introduced, no other manufacturer is really trying to squeeze into the niche that Nord created.  You can clearly see in something like the Yamaha YC how the Stage has influenced the market, but no one has tried to match Nord with an equally knobby and tactile  all in one trifecta.  That doesn't mean Nord can charge whatever it wants -- people are still going to be making judgements like "for less money I could just go with a two keyboard rig," etc. . .  but it does give Nord some amount of license to take a bold stance in the marketplace.  At the end of the day, they need to sell enough units to be profitable and will set the price accordingly.

 

The comparison to violins, guitars, etc. is interesting because, yes, there is the apples-to-oranges aspect of comparing any potentially "timeless" instrument to a digital keyboard.  No one will ever talk about a Nord Stage they way they do a Stradivarius.  And yet the distinction may not be a sharp as it once was.  Lots of examples on this forum (and in this thread!) of people who happily play the same NS for a decade.  Digital sounds continue to improve, but as time goes by those improvements are ever more incremental.  Could Nord improve its Hammond emulation?  Yeah, but not by a huge amount, and some of that might occur just through an updated OS.  

 

At the same time, the improving longevity of Nord keyboards is also true for other manufacturers.  So this argument doesn't tell us much about the price of Nord versus Yamaha, Roland, etc.

[CyberGene]

22 minutes ago, Adan said:

It's interesting that 18 years after the Nord Stage was introduced, no other manufacturer is really trying to squeeze into the niche that Nord created.  You can clearly see in something like the Yamaha YC how the Stage has influenced the market, but no one has tried to match Nord with an equally knobby and tactile  all in one trifecta.

Maybe it's not such a lucrative market after all? If a small manufacturer can make enough Stages to satisfy the world demand (because I haven't heard of any outstanding shortages for Stages), then any competing product might not be profitable, especially if all the potential customers already own a Nord Stage.

 

Besides, there's a certain confirmation bias here (as a keyboard forum), because as much as it seems that combining a piano, an electric pianos and analog-style synth in a keyboard is everything you need in a keyboard instrument, the reality is this is mostly relevant for music that was popular half a century ago 😀 No, really, let's face it seriously. Even when those retro styles of funk, fusion, progressive rock, etc. that required a keyboardist with at least three keyboards on stage, were at their peak, it was already a rather niche type of music with guitar-only driven rock being the norm, later replaced with pop music sequenced in the studios. And now, in 2023, you expect for millions of keyboardists to buy on what is realistically a retro concept? I'm not even sure how many real keyboardists there are nowadays, being able to play relatively demanding piano/keyboard/synth parts. Most modern music is sequenced and if there are keyboards, they were just for entering the notes while sequencing it with no instrument-specific solos or parts the way most keyboard players here are used to.

[Al Coda]

On 2/17/2023 at 4:44 PM, Noah DC said:

Even the rich and famous touring acts might opt for other gear since the alleged benefits of using just one keyboard are lost when you have roadies. I will be surprised (and I’d love to be! Keeps things interesting) if we hear from that tier of working musicians that they are shelling out for a brand new Nord Stage 4 before the price drops or used models enter the market. 

 

LOL !

The rich and famous touring acts don´t buy the gear at all, they endorse it.

 

Big acts performing different styles of music use NORD exclusively,- "TOTO" do since some time and the totally different band "Rammstein" does too,- just only to name two.

There are many more.

When I saw Steely Dan,- what was there for the 2nd keyboardist ? - A Hammond chop and a Nord Stage 2.

NORD keyboards qualify for every tech tour rider around the globe,- possibly because there´s a good service network and you can get it everywhere.

It´s all not about the sounds, the action and arrangement of front panel controls only.

And, the big acts use hardware keyboards mainly as controllers today, while most sound comes from software running on laptops.

 

Well, I´m not a NORD fanboy and don´t use NORD gear,- I never did.

But it´s pretty clear they are one of the leading MI manufacturers selling electronic gear w/ a obviously low failure rate while replacing some vintage gear for the gig situation and offering haptics acceptable for every MIDIot out there.

 

So, if it´s worth spending about $6K for such piece of gear is a individual decision.

I myself pass almost every 88- or 76/73 weighted keys instrument w/ all the haptics on top.

I need a flat top on my bottom board.

 

 

A.C.

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Adan said:

It's interesting that 18 years after the Nord Stage was introduced, no other manufacturer is really trying to squeeze into the niche that Nord created.  You can clearly see in something like the Yamaha YC how the Stage has influenced the market, but no one has tried to match Nord with an equally knobby and tactile  all in one trifecta. 

 

Yeah. You can get the real-time organ and synth dedicated controls (at least to a good extent), but then not the dedicated effects controls (SK Pro, Fantom). You can get the real-time organ and dedicated effects controls, but not the synth (YC, and arguably Dexibell S10). There are also borderline cases, where you kinda get all 3, but by repurposing organ controls as synth controls (so no simultaneous access to both) and much more limited capabilities overall: Vox Continental (the 9 drawbar strips also function as 7 fixed synth controls, and 2 that change), VR09/VR730 (5 of the drawbars also function as synth controls), Numa Compact 2X (the 9 sliders also function as synth controls). But obviously none of these are anywhere in the league of the Nord, in ways too numerous to list.

 

Though I will say the 18 year timeframe is disputable, since the early models were only piano/organ/synth and had none of the "rompler" sounds at all, which most players need as well. So in that sense, it's only been a true "all-in'-one" for 12 years. But still, point taken.

 

 

1 hour ago, Adan said:

The comparison to violins, guitars, etc. is interesting because, yes, there is the apples-to-oranges aspect of comparing any potentially "timeless" instrument to a digital keyboard.  No one will ever talk about a Nord Stage they way they do a Stradivarius.  And yet the distinction may not be a sharp as it once was.  Lots of examples on this forum (and in this thread!) of people who happily play the same NS for a decade.  Digital sounds continue to improve, but as time goes by those improvements are ever more incremental.  Could Nord improve its Hammond emulation?  Yeah, but not by a huge amount, and some of that might occur just through an updated OS.  

 

At the same time, the improving longevity of Nord keyboards is also true for other manufacturers.  So this argument doesn't tell us much about the price of Nord versus Yamaha, Roland, etc.

 

Related, all digital boards have a limited life. You can rebuild a hundred year old Steinway. Twenty years from now, you'll not easily find parts for today's board, nor computers that have the right connection and right OS to be able to run their editors etc. Even today, an old analog synth is more repairable than an old digital one. Heck, once you go back a certain number of years, older cars are more repairable than newer ones.

 

46 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

much as it seems that combining a piano, an electric pianos and analog-style synth in a keyboard is everything you need in a keyboard instrument, the reality is this is mostly relevant for music that was popular half a century ago 😀 No, really, let's face it seriously. Even when those retro styles of funk, fusion, progressive rock, etc. that required a keyboardist with at least three keyboards on stage, were at their peak, it was already a rather niche type of music with guitar-only driven rock being the norm, later replaced with pop music sequenced in the studios. And now, in 2023, you expect for millions of keyboardists to buy on what is realistically a retro concept? 

 

That's an interesting point, and I think kind of explains this post:

 

On 2/17/2023 at 11:40 AM, cphollis said:

Watching a core Nord engineer with musical chops walk through the "Top 10 Features" was quite eye-opening for me. Much of the newer functionality is clearly aimed at newer sounds, newer music and newer performance styles with dynamic, evolving and rhythmic patterns.

 

Players focussed merely on the traditional piano/organ/synth types of stuff may not be able to keep them in business for much longer, these folks are aging out, so it makes sense that Nord is adding these kinds of features. Emphasizing more "modern" sounds and/or functionalities were also much of what Korg did in the move to the second generation of Kross and Krome, what Yamaha did with stuff like the Motion Control of the Montage/MODX. They are trying to find ways to stay relevant to another generation of players.

[DJkeys]

15 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

The way I see it, Nord is giving me the right tools for the show I am doing.  The other players are excellent musicians, the soundman is good and knows where keyboards belong in the mix, the lights look good, crowds are into the show.  That’s really what makes it worth it.

 

I don’t really get any negative energy that my rotary effect must be a better Leslie sim (although I do use a Tall&Fat, Vent 2 and reverb pedal if I really feel motivated to do so), or that my Rhodes sample hasn’t been updated since 2016 or my pianos are not fully mapped and I’m only using an L size piano instead of an XL one.

 

Doesn’t bother anyone and the show is doing well.

 

I use a lot of the product - make my own patches quickly, use samples, arp, mod wheel, effects, and move through the show quickly.  Also load in and pack up quickly with reasonable size and weight to carry.

 

I can sell my Nord Stage 3 after a few years for nearly what I paid for originally and the upgrade cost difference isn’t more than I would pay for a set of powered speakers, including that I am upgrading from a Compact to an HA package in the process.  I more than funded this difference selling a board that was sitting in my closet and not getting used.
 

I don’t see what the anger is all about to be honest.

I agree with this.  I have the same combination NS3 and NW2 and there isn't really any sound programming for Pop/Rock tunes that I haven't been able to do and do quickly.  Plus, these instruments hold value better than anything else on the market.  I have had 6 of them and sold 4 years later. 

 

-dj

[MathOfInsects]

So far I’d say this release has gone according to script, from all angles.

 

I love the slider-controlled layers.

 

I love the new synth section and part-specific effects.

 

The drawbar LEDs are kinda cool, but I don’t care about them since I’d only ever buy the Compact anyway.

 

I wouldn’t mind if it turned out the organ and piano sections had gotten some love, and I’m guessing we will discover that it has.

 

I hate that they kept the fixed split points. Either be a one-board solution or have fixed split points, I don’t see how a board can be both.

 

The whole “you’ll never make that back on gigs” thing is a gaslight, that’s not how we choose our equipment. If it were, we’d all play toy-store keyboards. We choose the equipment that lets us be at our best. That’s sunk cost and always has been. 
 

I’d like to lay hands on. I probably won’t be an early adopter, but may very well be an “early used” adopter if this board is what it seems to be.

[bjosko]

I am patiently waiting for some online reviews with more critical eyes and ears before I make my decision. 
My Mojo61 will still be my organ source, but it is times where I’m layering a pad or piano with the Nord organ, or use it as a lower manual. 

[Stokely]

I share Adan's puzzlement, that it's kind of weird how other companies nibble at the edges of the Stage but don't go all the way.  It's almost like there's a treaty not to step on its toes.

There's no way they don't have the knowledge, some of the erstwhile competion has far more complex programming and functionality like sequencing.

I don't even care all that much about the knobby interface, I am ok with menus as long as there are adequate controls I can map important things to.  My main complaint for all those others is simply the sound.   They just refuse to have the holy 3 of piano/organ/synth.  My SK Pro adds a freaking mono synth (???) The Modx/Montage keep trotting out their abysmal organ (and I'm a bit tired of the occasional glitches I get with an ipad).  The YC has little synth capability.   The Kronos is no more, the Nautilus has woeful controls and the old crap (IMO) cx3 organ.  C'mon guys!   I'd say the closest competition--from what I've heard, and played--is the Roland Fantom.  The organ is pretty good, the vpiano (according to my gigging friend) actually works great in mono and he's quite picky, the synths are really good.  I don't use rhodes/wurli/clav that much so that's not a huge concern, I don't think these are Roland strong points.   Not cheap, but not ludicrously expensive like the Stage 4 either.  Granted I'm not going to be gigging the Fantom 8, it's 62 pounds and the size of a coffin, so it's going to be the Fantom 6 if I can get a good deal on one.

[ElmerJFudd]

They all target their audience with the features they believe their user base wants to see.  Nord makes a clear delineation between their Stage, Electro and Piano lines. 
 

Yamaha believes at the moment that their gigging musicians were asking for a more tactile user interface and an organ engine with drawbar controllers.  They believe these features fall within their stage instruments like the CP and newer YC offerings.  $2-3.2k.  This is very competitive with the Nord Electro which also lacks a programmable synth section. 
 

Montage, Fantom, Discontinued Kronos, K2700 are in various ways more flexible and feature-full instruments than the Nord Stage but they also target studio as much as if not more than stage use.  
 

If considering a Stage 4, I’d probably want to get to a shop that could setup the current Fantom and the NS4 next to each other for comparison on sounds, split/layer, setlist,  quality of action, controls, user interface, audio interface, build quality, etc.  and of course $4.2k vs $5.7k.  

[Charleston]

After watching Derrick Keels' 2 videos on the Fantom's polyphony issues, I definitely wouldn't buy one.

[ElmerJFudd]

40 minutes ago, Charleston said:

After watching Derrick Keels' 2 videos on the Fantom's polyphony issues, I definitely wouldn't buy one.

I’m not in the market, but interested in this issue regardless.  Have they not employed a proper sounding note steeling scheme?  

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

The drawbar LEDs are kinda cool, but I don’t care about them since I’d only ever buy the Compact anyway.

They'd be a benefit on the Compact, too.

 

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

My SK Pro adds a freaking mono synth (???)

They do have a poly synth, but the editing is only through the menus and not with the dedicated synth controls. (And the oscillators are samples.)

 

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

I'd say the closest competition--from what I've heard, and played--is the Roland Fantom.  The organ is pretty good, the vpiano (according to my gigging friend) actually works great in mono and he's quite picky, the synths are really good.  I don't use rhodes/wurli/clav that much so that's not a huge concern, I don't think these are Roland strong points.   Not cheap, but not ludicrously expensive like the Stage 4 either.  Granted I'm not going to be gigging the Fantom 8, it's 62 pounds and the size of a coffin, so it's going to be the Fantom 6 if I can get a good deal on one.

I'd agree, Fantom is probably the closest choice. But despite a lot more flexibility in many ways, you do lose the direct effects manipulations. The board that comes next closest may be Kurzweil K2700/PC4 series, but now you lose not just the dedicated fx controls, but also the dedicated synth controls.

 

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

If considering a Stage 4, I’d probably want to get to a shop that could setup the current Fantom and the NS4 next to each other for comparison on sounds, split/layer, setlist,  quality of action, controls, user interface, audio interface, build quality, etc.  and of course $4.2k vs $5.7k.  

Fantom mostly wins on split/layer, and setlist functions, and audio interface. On the semi-weighteds, I'd say Roland wins on action, but it would be a tougher call on the hammer actions. Each wins on different sounds. Nord again wins on real-time effects manipulation. On the semi-weighted, I'd have to go with the Nord for travel weight. The hammer action boards are all too heavy for me!

[MathOfInsects]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

They'd be a benefit on the Compact, too.

Meh. To me, that panel is a greater value-add to be weighted key versions of the board, than to the Compact. We already had drawbars. The LEDs are cute, but I wasn’t waiting for them to add that. If anything, they make the board less organ-like, rather than more. Whereas the drawbars make the other versions more organ like.

[jeffincltnc]

I do see a number of concerns on the support forum about removing the song list feature, though I have a different set of state loads for both my Wave 2 and Stage 3 and use the Programs where both keyboards have the patch names and changes in order of the show.  I can change orders and add/remove things in Programs in Nord Sound Manager but don’t use the song features to point to other patches.  I am interested in seeing how setlist management is optimized in the new Stage though.

[EricBarker]

11 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Meh. To me, that panel is a greater value-add to be weighted key versions of the board, than to the Compact. We already had drawbars. The LEDs are cute, but I wasn’t waiting for them to add that. If anything, they make the board less organ-like, rather than more. Whereas the drawbars make the other versions more organic like.

Agreed. People nowadays are always gripping by about how their drawbars don’t match the sound, and how inauthentic that is. But they forget that real B3s had 12 presets per manual that disengaged the drawbars. That’s been part of the instrument’s identity since day one.

 

At first the LEDs on the NS4 seemed snazzy. But then I found myself asking “but can I turn them off?” Because I don’t think I really need them and they’d be more of a distraction than a convenience. I do like that they have physical drawfaders on all models now, and I get they felt the need to put the LEDs to satisfy those that just NEED to have their visual data in-sync at all times. 

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

Agreed. People nowadays are always gripping by about how their drawbars don’t match the sound, and how inauthentic that is. But they forget that real B3s had 12 presets per manual that disengaged the drawbars. That’s been part of the instrument’s identity since day one.

 

At first the LEDs on the NS4 seemed snazzy. But then I found myself asking “but can I turn them off?” Because I don’t think I really need them and they’d be more of a distraction than a convenience. I do like that they have physical drawfaders on all models now, and I get they felt the need to put the LEDs to satisfy those that just NEED to have their visual data in-sync at all times. 

 

On a real B3, you had four sets of real drawbars. The LEDs can help compensate for the fact that you now only have one, e.g. if you can switch focus to "see" and more easily edit your alternate organ registration (the other manual, or the other sound you intend to switch to). The NS3 did have a visual representation of 2 sets of drawbars on the screen, but crude by comparison, and not in your natural visual eyeline when working with the organ controls, and may or may not have been visible at all depending on what screen you were on.

 

As a bonus, on a real B3, when you recalled a preset, drawbars were inoperable, but on the Nord, you can still use them. To fully take advantage of that benefit, though, it's nice to see where a drawbar's setting "really is" as a starting point for when you go to move it. It can give you a cue as to which drawbars you want to adjust, for those with not enough experience to simply be able to tell with their ears, for example, which drawbars are probably already at max.

[ElmerJFudd]

53 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Fantom mostly wins on split/layer, and setlist functions, and audio interface. On the semi-weighteds, I'd say Roland wins on action, but it would be a tougher call on the hammer actions. Each wins on different sounds. Nord again wins on real-time effects manipulation. On the semi-weighted, I'd have to go with the Nord for travel weight. The hammer action boards are all too heavy for me!

Right. That’s why I’m suggesting if one is in the market that these two Fantom and Stage 4 are probably the closest matchup in current boards.  So give them both a spin.  

[jeffincltnc]

I have a Fantom 8 and really love it as the main hub of my home studio but it’s too large and heavy to gig with in the typical load in - 3 hour gig - pack up sequence.

 

if I were setting up a rig for a series of shows where I could leave it in place that would be another story.

 

Fantom 8 is well over 60 lbs though.

[ElmerJFudd]

25 minutes ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I have a Fantom 8 and really love it as the main hub of my home studio but it’s too large and heavy to gig with in the typical load in - 3 hour gig - pack up sequence.

 

if I were setting up a rig for a series of shows where I could leave it in place that would be another story.

 

Fantom 8 is well over 60 lbs though.

That’s quite true, same with the Montage.  K2700 is close at 52lbs. 43.2lbs on the NS4 comes in the lightest.  
 

Yet another reason folks hold on to their CP4 at 38.5lbs (not comparing features other than getting a quality piano action in a lighter carry board).