Nord Stage 4 Announced

[MathOfInsects]

3 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

I went back to two boards. I’m using a YC73 below with SK Pro 61 on top and loving it!

 

I haven’t given up on the Swiss Army knife single board. I’m feeling optimistic that the YC73 will fit the bill. It shows great promise at home. I’m going to try it alone on an electric blues gig in a few weeks; that’ll be the real test. The gig will likely call for AP, EP, B3, and maybe some clav and synth. If the YC73 Hammond sound falls short I’ll try it again with the HX3 Expander module which I already own and love. That would be a more complicated single-board rig than I’d like so I’m hoping the YC73 alone does well. 

Both of these boards are on my radar, so would be curious to hear how this goes.

[MAJUSCULE]

That certainly is a great rig. The SK Pro wasn't around when I picked up my Stage 3, and I can't quite remember if the YC had been announced yet. That said, I'm still very happy with my NS3C over CP73 rig (or dedicated synth over NS3C, or solo NS3C). We're spoiled, aren't we?

[EricBarker]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but the more I look at it, the Crumar Mojo series really made a big mistake when they didn't include a good AP. At the time, I didn't care because I knew I was going to use my Keylab88/Mainstage setup alongside it. And that was great. But there's a huge section of keyboard content that is "non-synth keyboards", and the Mojo covers all of them SUPERBLY... accept AP. It forces the board out of the running when compared to other "All-in-one minus synth" boards.

I probably wouldn't have ordered a Stage3 if the Mojo had a solid Piano.

[Docbop]

 

[Spider76]

I hoped it would be an in-depth, hands-on review like his other excellent ones... instead it's ONE HOUR AND THIRTEEN MINUTES (and seven seconds) of discussion of internet pics? Wow.

[Stokely]

With the (possible) news of a Montage successor (see thread), perhaps we have a new contender for the do-everything single board--minus the knobby interface surely, which is the YC's area.  If they add both a synth engine and the YC organ, look out!  Not really expecting both of those, or either really, but it's fun to speculate.

I'm more favorable toward the Nord sounds than many of you here.  I have heard gig recordings where I used strings, clavs, organ etc and they all sounded great to me (on my Electro 6).   Price is simply the reason I won't consider this new NS4.

[Adam Burgess]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

With the (possible) news of a Montage successor (see thread), perhaps we have a new contender for the do-everything single board--minus the knobby interface surely, which is the YC's area.  If they add both a synth engine and the YC organ, look out!  Not really expecting both of those, or either really, but it's fun to speculate.

I'm more favorable toward the Nord sounds than many of you here.  I have heard gig recordings where I used strings, clavs, organ etc and they all sounded great to me (on my Electro 6).   Price is simply the reason I won't consider this new NS4.

Totally agree with all of this.

I kinda want one - but that price is unjustifiable at the mo. I've got too much stuff as it is, but I still want one.

The Yammy teaser is interesting, for sure!

[cphollis]

The first version of the NS4 manual is up on the website.  My "pet feature" (song mode) has disappeared but re-emerged as a powerful set of capabilities to reuse presets and layers -- and march through them sequentially, if needed.  Or by category, or by address, etc.  It will take me a bit to fully appreciate what they've done, but it appears to be a powerful superset of previous NS3 capabilities.

[MathOfInsects]

I went right to page 38 for the split info. No selectable option. They can kiss my non-Swedish butt on this one. It's enough of an issue for me to make me skip this version unless I get some ridiculous deal on it used at some point. Can't one of the smart folks here come up with a hack for this?

[CyberGene]

12 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Can't one of the smart folks here come up with a hack for this?

 

Not sure what help it is but yesterday I experimented with changing the split point of my Yamaha CP88 by sending SysEx messages from a Java program that I wrote. My idea is actually different: I need to automatically set proper MIDI zone ranges based on the actual global split point. Anyway, you can read/write every single setting on the CP88 through SysEx messages. If the Nord Stage specification allows for setting any note split point, not just those with LED-s, through e.g. SysEx, then this can be done, even by using a small DIY device that's hooked to the MIDI IN port and a bunch of buttons.

[cphollis]

There is a hack, but it is an ugly one.  Simply find something that will filter the midi note ranges to your liking.  Transmit filtered midi+control, loop back into any of the seven layers.  Like I said, ugly.

 

EDIT: I will say as I go through the manual I am finding all sorts of nice and thoughtful touches.  The new FX subsystem will take a bit of exploring.

[AnotherScott]

6 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

If the Nord Stage specification allows for setting any note split point, not just those with LED-s, through e.g. SysEx, then this can be done, even by using a small DIY device that's hooked to the MIDI IN port and a bunch of buttons.

If you're going to bring external devices into it, since the NS4 allows you to trigger different sounds on different MIDI channels, I suppose you could get any split points you want by turning Local Off and addressing your sounds via Camelot Pro, Keystage, Gig Performer, Mainstage, etc.

 

Also, if you're using NS4 as part of a pair, you can assign a sound to be played {only} by the other board (it's the Aux KB function), which would be another way to give it its own key range independent of the Nord's own split settings. It's something that is set on a program-by-program basis.

 

Not that I expect these to be what most people will want to do., just to avoid a fixed split point...

[MathOfInsects]

11 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

If you're going to bring external devices into it, since the NS4 allows you to trigger different sounds on different MIDI channels, I suppose you could get any split points you want by turning Local Off and addressing your sounds via Camelot Pro, Keystage, Gig Performer, Mainstage, etc.

 

Also, if you're using NS4 as part of a pair, you can assign a sound to be played {only} by the other board (it's the Aux KB function), which would be another way to give it its own key range independent of the Nord's own split settings. It's something that is set on a program-by-program basis.

 

Not that I expect these to be what most people will want to do., just to avoid a fixed split point...

Yeah, the value prop for this board/price point is the lack of a need for another one. 

I know it seems like a small thing, but either you're an "all in one" board, which means maximum flexibility, or you're a Precious Flower and how you come is what we get. But you can't be both. 

[bjosko]

55 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

I went right to page 38 for the split info. No selectable option. They can kiss my non-Swedish butt on this one. It's enough of an issue for me to make me skip this version unless I get some ridiculous deal on it used at some point. Can't one of the smart folks here come up with a hack for this?

Perhaps I have misunderstood something, but it seems like it is possible to define the split point pr. Note

”

KEYBoarD SPLIT SETTINgS
after a split has been activated, use the KB ZONE controls (accessed with SHIFT) below each sections octave Shift buttons to assign a Layer to one or more zones. The four Zone LEDs indicate which zone(s) each Layer is assigned to.
CHooSINg a SPLIT PoSITIoN
The Keyboard Split page – accessed by holding down the Split SET 6 button – allows for assigning each of the three split points to a keyboard position, or for deactivating a split point by pressing its corresponding soft button. There are 11 possible keyboard split positions, ranging from C2 to C7. To adjust a split point, make sure the Note row is focused by using the 6/5 soft button (PROGRAM 1 button) and then select the split point by pressing its corresponding soft button (Low, Mid or High), corresponding to the PROGRAM 2-4 buttons, and turn the dial.
The LEDs located between the keyboard and the panel controls indicate which split positions are active at all times.
“

 

[CyberGene]

Indeed, if you would need an external device for a Nord Stage, then you defeat the purpose of the Nord Stage and you'd be better of with a workstation.

[MathOfInsects]

Just now, bjosko said:

Perhaps I have misunderstood something, but it seems like it is possible to define the split point pr. Note

”

KEYBoarD SPLIT SETTINgS
after a split has been activated, use the KB ZONE controls (accessed with SHIFT) below each sections octave Shift buttons to assign a Layer to one or more zones. The four Zone LEDs indicate which zone(s) each Layer is assigned to.
CHooSINg a SPLIT PoSITIoN
The Keyboard Split page – accessed by holding down the Split SET 6 button – allows for assigning each of the three split points to a keyboard position, or for deactivating a split point by pressing its corresponding soft button. There are 11 possible keyboard split positions, ranging from C2 to C7. To adjust a split point, make sure the Note row is focused by using the 6/5 soft button (PROGRAM 1 button) and then select the split point by pressing its corresponding soft button (Low, Mid or High), corresponding to the PROGRAM 2-4 buttons, and turn the dial.
The LEDs located between the keyboard and the panel controls indicate which split positions are active at all times.
“

 

That's as it's always been. You're just choosing which of their assigned split points you want for each part of the split you're creating. You can't choose your own.

[bjosko]

Oh well…

That is so dead easy on the A1, just hit the split button and hit the key where you want the split to be.

 

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Indeed, if you would need an external device for a Nord Stage, then you defeat the purpose of the Nord Stage and you'd be better of with a workstation.

OTOH, there are people with, for example, the NS3 Compact, who pair it with something like a Casio PX-5S for a lightweight pair that still lets them play the Nord pianos from a hammer action. With the NS4's more flexible MIDI implementation (it looks like each of the 7 sounds can be addressed on its own MIDI channel), and the PX-5S itself being a 4-zone controller, you could presumably manage to do whatever you'd need in terms of key ranges. I'm not saying someone should use a second keyboard just for that, but the Stage series has never exclusively been the province of people committed to doing everything on the one board.

[cphollis]

10 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

That's as it's always been. You're just choosing which of their assigned split points you want for each part of the split you're creating. You can't choose your own.

This is one of those features that people either care about greatly, or not so much.  Something I did notice?  The new "layer" construct can take some of the pressure off the need for more (and finer grained) split points.

[Josh Paxton]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

I went right to page 38 for the split info. No selectable option. They can kiss my non-Swedish butt on this one. It's enough of an issue for me to make me skip this version unless I get some ridiculous deal on it used at some point. Can't one of the smart folks here come up with a hack for this?

 

Same. Any potential interest I had in this board died on page 3 of this thread, with the words "still fixed split points." Oh well, at least I get to repeat for probably the thirty-somethingth time: for the price, I expect a modern board to have all the bells and whistles that my DX21 did back in 1986.

[MathOfInsects]

My rig is always "for now," as far as I'm concerned. If a hotter chick comes along, I always reserve the right to talk to her in the bar. 

There are certain features I'm not going to pony up a bunch of bills without getting, on a "next" board. It's like a gas engine in a car. I've got one now, but when it comes time to pop for a new car, this will be the last gas-only engine I ever own.

Nord gets no more of my money until I can choose my own damned split points.

I also wouldn't mind a nice big Montage-style touch screen next time. I mean, it's 2023. I can't figure out how ANY screens are non-touch, with a straight face, at this point. 

My NS3C is the perfect board for my needs....so far. But when the time comes to drop $ on a new board, it can't be the 4 until and unless they address the splits. 

A Grand on the bottom (I wouldn't care about split points on a "single use" board) and the SK Pro on top could be a pretty nice rig. No real multi-use synth there, though, just that (very versatile) monosynth on the SK Pro. And still no single-board option.

[16251]

I'm only a bystander of this thread but have kept up. (I'm fascinated at the interest Nord always generates.) Reading the comments about the fixed split points makes me add to my dislike Nord list in that they are fine with selling the 88 for $5699. but no so much in redesigning flaws.

[MAJUSCULE]

Fixed split points does seem like an easy fix and almost petty to leave out at this point. I do find the adjustable fade to be useful, but altogether it's not a dealbreaker for me. It's the price for me. Simply can't justify the cost for the upgrade. Moving from an Electro 3 to a Stage 3 was a complete transformation and worth several thousands of dollars. S3 to S4, not so much.  

[cphollis]

Yes, there is not enough here for most NS3 users to consider an upgrade anytime soon.  Much like Apple users knew what the M1 would bring down the road, I know that at some point I will get one, figure out how to make it sing and dance, and start moving my workloads over to it.  But not anytime soon, as there's no rush.

[Iconoclast]

Does mainstage have the smart floating split point patented or something?  Because that is an awesome invention that you would think could address this fixed split point issue. Really every board should have it.

(floating split points in Mainstage analyzes whether your other hand is engaged somewhere else on the board or whether you're playing a scale/melody across the split point, and then floats the split point based on what your hands are currently doing. Works brilliantly for when you have that 1-3 note conflict across a split and you don't want to play your parts a whole nother octave apart.)

[HammondDave]

On 2/22/2023 at 2:33 PM, bjosko said:

Oh well…

That is so dead easy on the A1, just hit the split button and hit the key where you want the split to be.

 

Same for MODX. Amazing that a $1300 keyboard has more flexibility in performance options than one close to $5000. Yamaha does some stupid things with their OS, but this one is a no-brainer. Maybe they can do an OS update like Studio Logic has done with their Numa Piano X…

[1203]

31 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

Same for MODX. Amazing that a $1300 keyboard has more flexibility in performance options than one close to $5000. Yamaha does some stupid things with their OS, but this one is a no-brainer. Maybe they can do an OS update like Studio Logic has done with their Numa Piano X…

Same for YC 61/73/88

[Docbop]

30 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

Same for MODX. Amazing that a $1300 keyboard has more flexibility in performance options than one close to $5000. Yamaha does some stupid things with their OS, but this one is a no-brainer. Maybe they can do an OS update like Studio Logic has done with their Numa Piano X…

 So much of keyboard features today are all software based why aren't they doing more to continually enhance their products.    They simplify their control surface and case to make a less expensive model like Montage and Modx, Kronos and Nautilus, but why aren't they coming out with software enhancement that offer more.    Just look at what people are doing with tablets and laptops to create gigging system and can see the hardware in most these modern systems have the capability to do more and not cost a fortune. 

 

I think it is a negative side effect of Apple deciding to no longer charge for their operating system upgrades.   That caught on no only in the computer industry, but spread out other products like keyboards.   Major software upgrades are expensive to develop and test and now people expect them to be free.   I just wonder is we'd would be getting more if we still paid a reasonable price for upgrades (updates/bug fixes would still be free) to help offset the cost of R&D.   Back when I was a Product Manager for a small company with a popular software app we plan on two upGrades a year because the money from the upgrades help keep us afloat.  Nord is a small company I hear people say it is only 40 on staff,  so I'm sure one or two paid software upgrades a year would really help their bottom line.  Then new models of Nords would involve physical changes as well as software changes.    Yamaha could make paid upgrades to Montage a could times a year and then to upgrade trickle down to ModX a year later.   Maybe Korg could make a paid software update for the Kronos and offer the few things that were in the Nautilus.    As the old saying goes..... You get what your pay for and if upgrades are free they're going to be small,  then they'll make some new model that isn't that different but being a new model they can charge a lot more for it. 

 

Off soapbox, it's about to break anyway I gotta get back on my dam diet. 

[ElmerJFudd]

3 hours ago, Docbop said:

 So much of keyboard features today are all software based why aren't they doing more to continually enhance their products.    They simplify their control surface and case to make a less expensive model like Montage and Modx, Kronos and Nautilus, but why aren't they coming out with software enhancement that offer more.    Just look at what people are doing with tablets and laptops to create gigging system and can see the hardware in most these modern systems have the capability to do more and not cost a fortune. 

 

I think it is a negative side effect of Apple deciding to no longer charge for their operating system upgrades.   That caught on no only in the computer industry, but spread out other products like keyboards.   Major software upgrades are expensive to develop and test and now people expect them to be free.   I just wonder is we'd would be getting more if we still paid a reasonable price for upgrades (updates/bug fixes would still be free) to help offset the cost of R&D.   Back when I was a Product Manager for a small company with a popular software app we plan on two upGrades a year because the money from the upgrades help keep us afloat.  Nord is a small company I hear people say it is only 40 on staff,  so I'm sure one or two paid software upgrades a year would really help their bottom line.  Then new models of Nords would involve physical changes as well as software changes.    Yamaha could make paid upgrades to Montage a could times a year and then to upgrade trickle down to ModX a year later.   Maybe Korg could make a paid software update for the Kronos and offer the few things that were in the Nautilus.    As the old saying goes..... You get what your pay for and if upgrades are free they're going to be small,  then they'll make some new model that isn't that different but being a new model they can charge a lot more for it. 

 

Off soapbox, it's about to break anyway I gotta get back on my dam diet. 

I think the trend has become to release incomplete products - they seem to release digital devices knowing the firmware will need bug fixes and wait for user feedback to finish features.  

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I think the trend has become to release incomplete products - they seem to release digital devices knowing the firmware will need bug fixes and wait for user feedback to finish features.  

That's pretty much how most commercial software is written.   A lot of the time future features are already written and just turned off or the code is skipped over during the is commented out of the build until the Product Manager say we need the feature now.  Most products I was involved with were designed with future feature sets going out five years and Marketing had estimated time frames they were to be made available.   Sadly these days schedules get driven by the Accounting department not Engineering or Marketing.   Accounting decides what quarter they was the number from a new release to come in and could care less if it ready or not just put it out so the estimated numbers end up in the quarter they want.   Also because of the time of expense of QA some bugs and features are laying in wait until the budget is there for a full QA cycle.   It's ugly behind the curtain of big corporations seeing how the sausage is made.