Nord Stage 4 Announced

[jeffincltnc]

3 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

Was disappointed that there wasn't more piano memory offered and the organ side wasn't upgraded.

 

 

Again, the organ was not upgraded to you.  They have added a spring reverb and significantly improved the effects controls as well as physical drawbars with LEDs on a weighted hammer action keyboard.   I think those are both much more desirable than the Nord Stage 3 configurations.

 

Rotary effect is now available independently/additionally on other non-organ sounds within the same program using the stomp-box effects zone while keeping the organ rotary.

 

The sample memory was doubled from 500MB to 1GB and all of it is user definable for the sounds you want.  2GB + 1GB = 3GB.  The Kurzweil K2700 is 3.5GB user memory in FlashPlay so that's pretty competitive overall.   Last I checked, you can use those 2GB for your choice of 12 grands, 14 uprights, and 8 Rhodes varations, among other things with whatever you want your sounds to use.   They continue to be free and assume there will be more samples trickling out, even if it's not at the rapid pace that Nord was doing sampling when the original Stage was introduced.   If you have an older model, the new sounds are still backward compatible with older Stage, Electro and Piano models.  I didn't exactly see Kurzweil make any updates to KB3 or Korg updating CX3 in their new products either and Nord is my preferred organ engine against those competitors who put their organ engine into a multi purpose board.

 

I found the 1GB sample size to be a huge asset to my Wave2 for longer and more fully mapped sampling of my VSTs and loading into Nord Wave2 and soon on Stage 4.

[DJkeys]

I think the most important change in the NS4 is the new Layer architecture taken from the Wave 2.  The also used the Effects per Layer and the Arpeggiator from the Wave 2.  This I believe is a transition that could lead to an even more flexible and modular design in the future where:

 

The Extern feature could be moved to the Piano or Organ layers instead of losing a synth.  I think most users need more synth rather than two pianos or two organs

An instrument that had 1 Piano, 1 Organ, 3 Synth and two dedicated Extern sections like the NS3.

A completely modular design where the customer could order the specific Layer configuration they needed.

 

-dj

[Macsaint777]

I preordered the Nord Stage 4 Compact. As I hear the different demos that are trickling out, the core Nord DNA is here, but so are some new ways of adjusting the sounds my Stage 3 was capable of. In particular, the motion and depth to the synth pads that I keep hearing, will make this a board that is perfect for my main use case, which is playing in Worship contexts in church. The Nord Piano library is as great as ever, and with very few exceptions, all of the Grand and Uprights are still better samples than what is in my YC88. I absolutely love the YC 88 action, and as a whole package, it is very hard to beat, especially when paired with an iPad or Mac. I spent a good 2 hours just playing Pianoteq 8 from these awesome wooden keys last night. The organ engine has not been upgraded in the Nord.. well, that is true...but I never had any complaints before! I always paired my Stage 3 with a Neo Vent 2, and that more than covered my needs, although the Vent 2 was for me, because not even my super picky musician friends in the crowd could tell the difference between the Vent 2 and the Nord Close 122 in a live band mix. As a raw tone, the B3 in the Nord Stage 3, Electro 5,6 and from what I can tell so far, the Stage 4... sounds almost identical to my 1958 Hammond C3 with a stopped Leslie 147. You might say I am one of those extremely picky hammond guys, and so a few months back, I bought the new Hammond SK Pro 73 and proudly put it on top of my Stage 3 Compact. While the Hammond Piano and EP and synths were embarrassingly bad....probably the worst velocity switching I've ever heard -- The Hammond Organ aspect, and Leslie are REALLY good. The problem was....by the time I adjusted the internal Sk Pro Leslie...I still couldn't get it to quite fit in the mix the way the Vent 2 does, so I ended up using the Vent 2 with the Sk Pro. Then, one day I decided to kill the rotary effect in the Nord and Hammond and compare the raw tones side by side. Yes, the Hammond has the virtual Muti-contact thing, and yes the keys on the Hammond do feel a bit more substantial than the Nord... but sound wise? With no Leslie effect, recorded raw....I couldn't tell you which was which in a blind test, and neither could my engineer and musician friends. With the only reason to keep the SK being the Organ, I couldn't justify it and back it went. The Stage 3 was a better overall fit, and frankly, sounded damn near identical in a mix with the Vent 2. I tried to love the mono synth in the SK as well, and while it was fun...it definitely doesn't sound anything like an analog synth. The remaining sounds in the SK made me seriously wonder if Hammond/Suzuki has a clue what they are doing, and I say this with respect, and as someone who BADLY wanted to love the SK Pro. The Nord, even an Electro 6D, was a better fit. Now, here we are in 2023 and I've preordered the Stage 4 Compact. Why? Well, I sold my Stage 3 Compact for $3k a few months ago, and I have missed it A LOT. Mainly, the piano sound, and how easily I can use the synth section in a live situation, with no presets. Now that we have the ability to have 3 independent layers in the synth section, and with EVERY section now having a dedicated, and much improved effects line - ok, I can live with a single effects block for organ....The power and potential of this board has grown tremendously. I cannot tell you how many fellow church musicians (and there are way more of us than you think) pay tons of money to download pad sounds on their iPad or Mac, and then layer that with their Nord, because of the excellent organ, un-topped piano, and killer built in synth - which also allows user samples to be imported. A few years back, I created a free set of Stage 3 sounds, which can still be found on my YT channel. These were about 30 sounds which are essentially piano, organ, and synths layers in various orders. I always gave these sounds away for free... but I looked back recently at how many emails I received asking for those sound, just last year. 425 different church keys players reached out asking for these sounds. That was JUST last year.  I mentioned that I own the YC88, and I think it is a phenomenal keyboard. It is almost a weighted Electro 6D with a very very basic synth section, and an action which I don't think has any rivals in the Stage Piano world - until you step into full blown dedicated Piano replacement territory. Coupled with an iPad, this YC88 is almost better than anything else on the market, and I'd even say the new 1.2 Update brought a rotary effect that rivals the Nord 122 Close. But, the YC88, 73, and 61 are severely limited in the fact that they have only one set of stereo outputs - so no Vent 2 unless you want to send all your sounds through it. The YC88 has some of the best built in pianos, one of the best organs, and a small but extremely capable selection of "other" sounds. BUT it can't touch what a Stage 3 or now, Stage 4 can do. The main advantages of the Yamaha over the Nord, are the built in 4 part midi zones, 88 weighted wooden triple sensor action, and built in audio/midi interface over one USB cable. It is ALMOST perfect. But it lacks a dedicated synth engine, even a simple one. It cannot import user samples. It isn't ever going to let you replace and mix/match your own piano samples. Nord still, has the upper hand here. You could argue that the EPs in the Yamaha are a step up from the Nord offerings in the NPL. I would agree, except that unless you are recording the sounds solo, it is hard to tell that you didn't record a real Rhodes, Wurli, CP80, etc... in BOTH cases. We have reached a point where sound wise, we are very spoiled for choice, but still... the Nord Piano library is to my ears, one of the best sounding sets of Piano samples you can put in a hardware keyboard. I've tried Them ALL. Yamaha, Roland, Dexibell, Kawai, Korg and on and on... and they just don't have the warmth and character of the Nord Piano library. This is already way too long.. but I promise, there definitely is a market for the Stage 4 - especially with Church players. I for one am excited to get mine. Is it expensive? Sure.. but it is not a massive increase compared to previous Nord offerings....and you'd have to spend very nearly the same money to get the same capabilities with other hardware- unless you are going the computer route. I have a new MacBook Pro M1Max fully specced out. It is a monster. It is loaded with plugins. And I'd still rather play a real keyboard any day of the week. In this case? That real keyboard is a Nord Stage 3, and SOON to be Stage 4. Count me among the excited preorders!

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

Again, the organ was not upgraded to you.  They have added a spring reverb and significantly improved the effects controls as well as physical drawbars with LEDs

They also added the B3+bass function that the E5/E6 had, which should help since my biggest complaint about the NS3 organ is in its being bass-shy (which I addressed by layering in an additional sound on the bottom, which worked very smoothly with Nord's crossfade splits).

 

6 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I didn't exactly see Kurzweil make any updates to KB3 or Korg updating CX3 in their new products either and Nord is my preferred organ engine against those competitors who put their organ engine into a multi purpose board.

Yeah, I'm not sure why people fixate on Nord not updating their organ engine, when it's already quite good, and as you point out, numerous competitors have not updated theirs any more recently. Among boards that are designed to be "do everything" boards, the only one that I find unambiguously better than Nord is Hammond SK Pro... and even then, largely because so much more can be done to tweak it to taste. And I'd say Yamaha YC is competitive, but still doesn't blow the Nord away.

 

Though for one more answer to those who say, "why don't they update the organ," i'd add another possibility... they don't know how to make it any better than it is and/or don't "agree" that it isn't as good as others (even if "different"). Which could also be why any of them aren't better than they are. Kurzweil, Korg, Dexibell, Roland, whoever. That said, I was disappointed that NS3 had fewer tweakable options than the E5 did, so while I did like the NS3 organ, I was not able to get it to where the E5 was, which I preferred. So the one thing I do wish Nord would do is at least add back the rest of the options they had before.

 

1 hour ago, Macsaint777 said:

The Hammond Organ aspect, and Leslie are REALLY good. The problem was....by the time I adjusted the internal Sk Pro Leslie...I still couldn't get it to quite fit in the mix the way the Vent 2 does, so I ended up using the Vent 2 with the Sk Pro. Then, one day I decided to kill the rotary effect in the Nord and Hammond and compare the raw tones side by side. Yes, the Hammond has the virtual Muti-contact thing, and yes the keys on the Hammond do feel a bit more substantial than the Nord... but sound wise? With no Leslie effect, recorded raw....I couldn't tell you which was which in a blind test, and neither could my engineer and musician friends.

 

Raw tones are usually hard to discern between one clonewheel and another. I think the differences come much more from everything else. I don't just mean the Leslie sim. There's the way the raw tones combine over a wide variety of chords and drawbar registrations (something which is actually editable on the SK Pro and similar Hammonds, as you can create different "tonewheel sets" which alter their characteristics, comparable to how they could be different even from one tonewheel Hammond to another), and the key click, the leakage, crosstalk, C/V, percussion, overdrive... all this is much more substantial than the difference in simple raw tones. To me, it's the combination of many of these factors together that add up to an indefinable difference in realism and "presence."

[Cabo]

23 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Yeah, I'm not sure why people fixate on Nord not updating their organ engine, when it's already quite good,

 

I'd have to respectfully disagree -- It's just okay at this point to my ears.  It was probably quite good 6 years ago.

 

I've played the Stage 3 organ ever since it came out and there's now many other options that are much, much better sounding -- between lots of software titles, and especially my Hammond SK Pro.  Several people I play with from different bands have noticed an improvement in my organ sound.

 

Given the price of the Stages, I just expected it to be improved in some way --- that's probably why it seems to be a big deal to a lot of us.

 

 

[cphollis]

FWIW, I spent some time learning to get a nice range of B3 sounds on my NS3.  There's a lot to work with: two forms of distortion, useful amp sims, a decent leslie sim, EQ, compression, non-B3-chorus, phaser, reverb, etc.  in addition to all the usual B3 stuff.   Lots of knobs to play with, and that's before you start layering another pipe organ, synths, samples, etc.  I am not a B3 purist by any definition, but there is more than enough there for me to create some very tasty tones.

[AnotherScott]

23 minutes ago, Cabo said:

I'd have to respectfully disagree -- It's just okay at this point to my ears.  It was probably quite good 6 years ago.

 

I've played the Stage 3 organ ever since it came out and there's now many other options that are much, much better sounding -- between lots of software titles, and especially my Hammond SK Pro.  Several people I play with from different bands have noticed an improvement in my organ sound.

 

Of course, "quite good" is subjective, but at least in comparison to other "do it all" boards, I think it's up there with the best you can get, short of that SK Pro. But yes, the competition gets more fierce if you bring in more specialized boards and software. Maybe this factored into why Nord no longer has a dedicated organ board. With the discontinuation of the C2D, at this point, Nord is not competing in the dedicated clonewheel market.

[jeffincltnc]

I haven’t played the Hammond SK Pro but I have found the XK5 to be a nice clone, also pricey, but surprisingly falling short to me in the Leslie simulation. 
 

On the YouTube videos I listened to for the SK Pro, I didnt find much in the other sounds from their APs, Rhodes, or obviously virtual analog/FM/wavetable/sample loading to make the kind of music I do so I think Hammond SK is probably aimed more at the Electro player who is organ first than Stage 4.

[AnotherScott]

11 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I think Hammond SK is probably aimed more at the Electro player who is organ first than Stage 4.

 

The SK Pro is kind of part way between being an Electro competitor and a Stage competitor. They add some key things that people may choose Stage over Electro for, i.e. pitch/mod controls, external MIDI zones, a VA synth section, assignable output routing, more flexible splits/layers. But there are also ways it lags even the Electro, like real-time effects controls, custom sample loading, and yeah, strong pianos.

[Docbop]

Another overview of the Nord 4.

 

 

[cphollis]

I learned a few things from the video.  First, the FX demo was pretty helpful.  Hadn't seen "pattern mode" before, looks fun!  Presets look great for grabbing familiar sounds, ready to go.  I could use the dynamic compression for pianos.  Sheesh, maybe I want one of these now.

[jeffincltnc]

2 hours ago, cphollis said:

Sheesh, maybe I want one of these now.

 

You'll end up buying one by fall, Chuck.

[cphollis]

9 hours ago, jeffinpghpa said:

 

You'll end up buying one by fall, Chuck.

Lessee -- old NP4 88 is probably worth $2k, early rev NS3C maybe $2800 -- so I'm getting into the ballpark!

[stoken6]

17 hours ago, cphollis said:

Hadn't seen "pattern mode" before, looks fun!

I had to work up Erasure's "Respect" for a gig last year. Pattern arpeggiator would have been very useful!

 

Cheers, Mike.

[bjosko]

I have never used arpeggiator together with a band other than at an intro. 
It is impossible to control my drummer with a masterclock 😂

But the opportunity to control the tempo manually by tapping with a foot control seems to be a clever solution, except it was shown by using the new 3 pedals with some kind of a 5 pin Din connector.

Hopefully it might be possible with a cheap standard sustainpedal in a configuration, perhaps alternative to the pump effect. 

[Iconoclast]

I'm pretty sure it is. They wanted to demo the triple pedal and show that the individual pedals themselves are re-assignable.  But I'm near certain that the other pedal jacks can be used for that purpose.

[cphollis]

Upon reading the documentation closely, it appears that this trick of setting tempo with foot taps works only with Nord Triple Pedal, the two versions working identically.  The rightmost pedal is always sustain.  The other two can be freely reassigned from the menu.  Used Nord Triple Pedals aren't hideously expensive.

[Macsaint777]

2 hours ago, cphollis said:

Upon reading the documentation closely, it appears that this trick of setting tempo with foot taps works only with Nord Triple Pedal, the two versions working identically.  The rightmost pedal is always sustain.  The other two can be freely reassigned from the menu.  Used Nord Triple Pedals aren't hideously expensive.

I'm sure glad I kept my triple pedal when I sold my Stage 3 compact. Projected shipping date for my preordered S4 is mid April according to Sweetwater. 

 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, cphollis said:

Used Nord Triple Pedals aren't hideously expensive.

Do the older pedals work on the NS4?

[cphollis]

Just now, AnotherScott said:

Do the older pedals work on the NS4?

I have been waiting many years to tell you this, Scott, but -- yes, it's in the manual.

[changearound2]

4 hours ago, cphollis said:

Upon reading the documentation closely, it appears that this trick of setting tempo with foot taps works only with Nord Triple Pedal, the two versions working identically.  The rightmost pedal is always sustain.  The other two can be freely reassigned from the menu.  Used Nord Triple Pedals aren't hideously expensive.

 

The foot switch which does Program Up and Down on the Stage 3 can be assigned to Tap Tempo amongst other things on the stage 4.

[analogika]

1 hour ago, cphollis said:

I have been waiting many years to tell you this, Scott, but -- yes, it's in the manual.

 

Ah — closure. 

 

…or openure, depending. Anybody know which type Nord use?

[cphollis]

I read that the Nord Triple Pedal sends a continuous control signal, and thus can be used to sense velocity for things like pedal noise.  The first iteration did not stand up to gigs well.  This newer design has a 5 pin DIN connector, so it looks a lot more sturdy.  And, no, the typical open/closed pedal type won't work here.   According to the manual, both versions work identically.  You might want to check out the docs, as the leftmost two pedals can be assigned all sorts of roles, nor sure if it is per program.

 

If you think about it, an ordinary foot pedal would simply change state halfway through its travel, making it rather hard to use it to set tempo.  By sensing pedal velocity, it's easier to figure out what the musician intended.

[Stokely]

If nothing else, the recent return-to-normal-prices for the NS3--and more used ones for sale due to the NS4 presumably--have rekindled my interest in it.

Probably going to pick up a HA88 from a friend with a nice SKB case for a decent price, he now wants the NS3 compact (he likes the action more than I do).   I need a "bottom board" to go with my sk pro that can do single-keyboard gigs in a pinch, and it needs good synths as the trend recently has been more 80s stuff.   I've tried it in the past, I like the light-ish piano action personally.  My one hesitation is the size, it'll mean I won't be able to have the back rail up on my cart if it lays flat (I measured, it's one inch too long for my R14!).   Weight isn't that bad though the case is over 30 pounds so it'll be quite the increase from my Modx and gig bag if I pull the trigger!

[Iconoclast]

3 hours ago, cphollis said:

I read that the Nord Triple Pedal sends a continuous control signal, and thus can be used to sense velocity for things like pedal noise.  The first iteration did not stand up to gigs well.  This newer design has a 5 pin DIN connector, so it looks a lot more sturdy.  And, no, the typical open/closed pedal type won't work here.   According to the manual, both versions work identically.  You might want to check out the docs, as the leftmost two pedals can be assigned all sorts of roles, nor sure if it is per program.

 

If you think about it, an ordinary foot pedal would simply change state halfway through its travel, making it rather hard to use it to set tempo.  By sensing pedal velocity, it's easier to figure out what the musician intended.

Page 59.  This is for the other 2 footswitch jacks, not the Nord triple pedal.
6 - FOOT SWITCH TYPE The Foot Switch jack on the Nord Stage 4 accepts a variety of different pedals, with either one or two buttons/switches. Set the Type parameter according to the connected model. If you are unsure of the polarity of the pedal, simply check whether the chosen functionality works as expected, if not select the other polarity (Open or Closed). Range: Single Open, Single Closed, Dual Open, Dual Closed FUNC 1 The Func 1 parameter determines the function of an attached single pedal, or the first switch of a dual pedal. Range: User Assigned, Layer Scene II, Pump, Mst Clk Tap, Synth Vibrato, Program Up, Program Down, Rotor Hold, Rotor Toggle FUNC 2 The Func 1 parameter determines the function of the second switch of a dual pedal and has no effect when a single pedal is connected.

[cphollis]

That's great but not 100% clear.  Nord announced a Single Pedal to go with their Triple Pedal.  Reading it closely, I want to believe bog-standard pedals would work, but ... I have to wait until someone tries it.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Pretty sweet sounding here, if not groundbreaking. Long-term I think my plan at this time is to shift from the PC4 to a Stage 4 HA88 as my main gig board.

 

 

[stoken6]

I'm trying to tell myself that my Nord Stage 2 does all I ask, and I don't need the third synth engine and the more sophisticated capabilities in the 4. Keep reminding me I'm right, please...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

I'm trying to tell myself that my Nord Stage 2 does all I ask, and I don't need the third synth engine and the more sophisticated capabilities in the 4. Keep reminding me I'm right, please...

NS2 still has some advantages over NS4, e.g. pending load, endless encoders with LED rings for some parameters, emulation of all 15 clav EQ settings (vs. 7). So it's not like there wouldn't be any trade-offs at all, if that helps...

[ImproKeys]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

I'm trying to tell myself that my Nord Stage 2 does all I ask, and I don't need the third synth engine and the more sophisticated capabilities in the 4. Keep reminding me I'm right, please...

 

Cheers, Mike.

Hi Mike!

I decided to upgrade from NS2 to NS4 73 HA. The stage 4 is here since yesterday. I am returning it - but mostly because of build quality issues (a few keys are not correctly aligned). I miss one MIDI feature which is quite important for me: if you control a layer via external keyboard (DualKB/AuxKB) the NS4 ignores incoming Aftertouch and Wheels.I am shure this will be fixed in an update. I think I will order one later this year, when the first flaws are improved.

 

Btw, the keybed is as great as the one on the NS2 76 HA !

 

Improkeys