Nord Stage 4 Announced

[analogika]

Computers follow completely different expectations and user interface paradigms than performance hardware. 
 

Software as a business model only works by continually adding features, while instruments sell on the merit of their inherent set of compromises—the balance of features, sound, usefulness, reliability, interface, and portability, and looks. 
This balance can shift or still be valid if an instrument is replaced in a product line, without radically redesigning, or even adding a bunch of new features (the way we’re accustomed to computer software differentiating product generations). 
 

It is not coincidental that many professionals set up their computers as if they were dedicated hardware — build it once to do exactly what it’s supposed to, and leave it that way until it needs to be replaced. 

[jeffincltnc]

It looks like Julian Pollack aka J3PO designed a number of the factory sounds that are shipping with the Nord Stage 4.    Again, the emphasis of this product is to enrich the workflow, layering and effects more than introducing new piano, electromechanical and organ/leslie sounds that are not already in the Stage 3.

 

Interestingly, I had sent J3PO a private message about a week ago hoping he would make another signature soundset for the Stage 4.   Even though, it's not quite the style I play in my band, I have really enjoyed his ways of putting low-fi sound, glitch controls on the modwheel and subtle uses of sampled vinyl crackle into the textures of the sounds for pianos, EPs and synths.

 

It was clear watching his video to support who this board is aimed for and isn't.  It's about putting textures and nuance into live sound performance with independent control of the elements on stage.

 

I think as Chuck Hollis said, if you are doing the type of music from the 60's-70's-80's where you wanted newer and bigger samples of the wurlitzer, clav and CP80 and a new leslie simulation that's as good as a Vent, this isn't for you.  This is definitely a performance instrument for more subtle use of textures and independent moving parts.  J3PO has a monster set of skills on using these even though most of us bread and butter gig players don't play music that sounds like that.  I'm pretty excited as his stuff has given me lots of inspiration at home, though.

[Iconoclast]

I plugged the current NS4 88 price into an inflation calculator and backed it up 6 years to when the NS3 came and and Voila:

They're basically the same price when you take inflation into account.  yes...it was still expensive 6 years ago and it's still expensive now, but some of that is completely because the last two years inflation has been higher than you think it has.

[stillearning]

18 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

I plugged the current NS4 88 price into an inflation calculator and backed it up 6 years…

Just for kicks, I’ve done the same going back to the 70’s and 80’s against what I paid for keyboards like my Arp Quadra, and Prophet 5! Today’s boards are a bargain! Yeah, I know, the tech is very different, but I still remember saving up several G’s for that Quadra! 

[Keyboardplayer]

Here is a very good demonstration of the new Nord Stage 4 everyone is talking about. Best stage piano/keyboard on the market, bar none, IMO.

 

Nord Stage 4 Factory Presets Demo - No Talking

 

Big bucks, but if you have the dough there is nothing better currently on the market, I dare say. Enjoy!

[Delaware Dave]

based on the above video the leslie sim sounds no better than the double leslie on the kurzweil PC4.  Given that, I see no advantages to purchasing the Stage 4 over the PC4.  Sorry......

[HammondDave]

11 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

based on the above video the leslie sim sounds no better than the double leslie on the kurzweil PC4.  Given that, I see no advantages to purchasing the Stage 4 over the PC4.  Sorry......

Agreed… any serious Hammond player would scoff at that sim. 

[nadroj]

They should really switch it to the 145 Close setting as the default. That rotary sounds awful compared to the close setting - which still isn’t perfect. 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

26 minutes ago, nadroj said:

They should really switch it to the 145 Close setting as the default. That rotary sounds awful compared to the close setting - which still isn’t perfect. 

I was going to say that the Leslie sim sounds different than I remembered, even though it's been awhile since I've used my Electro 4D for organ. But you're right, I definitely have the Leslie set to close and tweaked some other things from the defaults.

[jeffincltnc]

3 hours ago, HammondDave said:

Agreed… any serious Hammond player would scoff at that sim. 

 

It's not a Hammond B3 with a Leslie 145.  It's a really great performance keyboard and despite all the grumpy naysayers who don't think it's as good as the originals they carried around back in the old days there is nothing else that matches the user interface of the Nord Stage 4 live.  So I'm stoked to get one.  If I want to use my Tall & Fat, Vent II and reverb pedals it will be even better.

 

Any "serious Hammond player who would scoff at that sim" probably has a purpose built instrument that clones the layout and fuller behaviors of a Hammond clone.  Mine is a Viscount Legend and YMMV.

 

Nord Stage 4 isn't targeting the Hammond purist, just as MAG organs aren't focused on pianos and VA synths.

[jeffincltnc]

4 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

based on the above video the leslie sim sounds no better than the double leslie on the kurzweil PC4.  Given that, I see no advantages to purchasing the Stage 4 over the PC4.  Sorry......

 

There are plenty of advantages to purchasing a Stage 4 over a PC4, though, whether you see them or not.   There's also plenty of advantages to selling a Nord over a Kurzweil when you're ready to find a new buyer after a few years.  Kurzweil resale values are terrible and they are really hard to find buyers for into the second hand market.

 

Kurzweils do a lot of things well, too, but I don't think KB3 is really a highlight of its competitive differentiators to multi purpose stage instruments with clonewheel engines among their feature sets.

[AnotherScott]

Yeah in the end, neither the Kurz nor the Nord are targeting the Hammond purist (though to my ears, Nord comes closer). And yeah, there are plenty of reasons to choose either over the other.

[MathOfInsects]

To be honest, that video doesn't make anything sound great except maybe the synth.

 

BUT...for me a real strength of the NS3 is what you get AFTER tweaking the sounds.

 

The organ and leslie take some OCDing, but you can get something quite nice from them. I do not think it's first in class, but do think it's in with the gifted kids. That's maybe not a roaring endorsement for a stand-alone, but definitely a factor in its division. I think the separate EQ paths on the NS4 might close this gap even more, since that last 10% or so is in the punchiness of the attack. (Though I wish I could spin a dial to set key click.)

 

The piano benefits from all the various "imperfect" elements you can add. 

My takeaway from the various changes is that Nord's users just got too damn old, and the one place Nord saw they weren't keeping up is in the club. So the bread-and-butter sounds are pretty much as is, but the MDMA soundtrack stuff was punched up significantly. 

I'm always very impressed with Kurz's feature set and sounds, and am always left completely cold by the boards themselves and the workflow. It feels like programming a microwave to me. If I bit the bullet and dove in I'm sure I'd love a lot of what they have to offer.

I would love a Hammond SKX Pro but every time I watch anyone work through the features, the UI seems contrived. I guess you'd get used to it, but for the price, I guess I just don't feel like being trained by the machine I bought. And every time I buy something for its knobby monosynth, I always think I'm going to use it at every gig and end up using versions of the same three presets anyway. If there were something like a "Hammond Electro" version of the Pro, I'd probably be on that. 


 

[Dave Keys]

In my quest to replace my Electro, I recently tried every Nord going (apart from the NS4 obviously) and the only one that didn't have a ghastly action in my view was the Nord Grand. But even if the NS4 had an action that compared to the Kawai MP11SE and was as light as the NS4, I couldn't justify £4500 on a stage board - I'd have to do a lot of gigs before it got paid for and I started making any money. Besides, I find beyond a certain price point it's a case of diminishing returns. Actions only get so good, Piano sounds only get so good, Organs etc. And for the love of god what do Nord have against fully flexible split points - something I've been able to do on every digital board for over 35 years!

[sherry]

I'd like to see someone do a video on song mode in the Stage 4.  (I know there's no song mode on the 4)  But the equivalent on How to change programs/voices/patches within a song on the fly.  I use a Kronos and the setlist feature is fantastic.  On the Kronos i have the name of the songs in each of the boxes on the screen and use the Karma scene buttons to turn on/off various programs/splits all without cutoff of sound.  It's almost too easy.  Since the Kronos is discontinued and the replacement is the Nautilus (a completely neutered Kronos lite) I'm looking at the Stage 4 as a replacement to my Kronos.  My Kronos is ten years old and I think it would be foolish to buy a used one knowing it's been discontinued.  Thanks.

[stoken6]

19 minutes ago, sherry said:

My Kronos is ten years old and I think it would be foolish to buy a used one knowing it's been discontinued.

 

Why do you need to replace your Kronos? If it works, and it works for you, just keep it.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Spider76]

20 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

I plugged the current NS4 88 price into an inflation calculator and backed it up 6 years to when the NS3 came and and Voila:

They're basically the same price when you take inflation into account.  

 

In EU, NS4 price is 45% higher than what the NS3 (and all previous Stages) used to cost.

That's way higher than inflation. Besides, even if it was on par with inflation, the problem is that salaries have stayed the same or diminished (for the lucky ones who still have a job)

[Stokely]

24 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

 

Why do you need to replace your Kronos? If it works, and it works for you, just keep it.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Ironically, I'm looking pretty hard at used Kronos 2 88 (which isn't as old) with a case for low 2000's.   That's a great deal IMO EXCEPT it's too long and heavy for my liking.
I'm not worried that it's discontinued, if I felt it wasn't going to have issues I'd buy with confidence (in which case, it wouldn't matter that much if it was still being made, buying used.)

I'm seeing some decent deals on HA88 Stage 3s, the action of which I like well enough.  That said, I've kind of got it in my head to stay with a 6 or 7 octave main board. And frankly I play a fair bit more synth and organ combined that I do piano these days, so a good synth action is what I'm targeting.    If I hadn't recently bought an sk pro I might jump at a used NS3 compact (despite not liking the action nearly as much as that on the SK.)

[AnotherScott]

3 minutes ago, Stokely said:

If I hadn't recently bought an sk pro I might jump at a used NS3 compact (despite not liking the action nearly as much as that on the SK.)

I think they're both Fatar TP/8O, I think the difference is the tension of the springs, and throw distance/landing (related, the NS3 has aftertouch).

[AnthonyM]

Does anyone have any info on what the weighted keyboard feels like? Is it the same as on previous models? I know they mentioned 3 sensor but I'm speaking more on the way it actually feels to play it as compared to say the keyboard in the Roland Fantom and other 88 key Roland Midi controllers.

 

I am planning to replace my current Nord Stage 3 Compact which has the waterfall keys, with a Nord Stage 4 (I will list it in the Garage Sale). I have only played the Stage 3 from an external 88 key midi controller except for testing out some sounds, so it is immaculate. Just fell in love with the Royal Grand 3 and some of the Electric Pianos, which is what I mainly use.

 

The only problem with selling it is that I had purchased some custom sounds from Matt Cossey quite some time ago and have read that sounds in general cannot be ported over from the Stage 3 to the Stage 4 or otherwise translated due to the synth architecture, which is different. Since I never used the keyboard live as planned to this point, I guess this doesn't matter. But I would have still loved to have the sounds on board.

 

 

[octa]

on the SK Pro there's the "virtual multi-contact" approach too, which, other than the great sound, might be why it feels more immediate and realistic (subjectively speaking) for organ than most kbs. And I really like how expression pedal behaves/feels. (I use EXP-50J)

 

I have a buyer lined up for NP5 73 but it's tough to let go. Nord APs, to me, are just the best sound-wise at translating to different live settings. I wish NP5 had the effects options NS has (delay feedback knob is a big one for me) and a pitch bender. . 

 

Could attempt to sell several keyboards (YC88 also) and get NS4, but it's difficult to let go of aforementioned SK Pro features. Younger me would appreciate having the synth options on NS4 but now the gigs seem to be AP/EP/B3/and just occasional synth. .

 

I wonder how much of a factor the triple sensor contact system is on NS4 compact especially, and other 2 models. Maybe this is more useful and responsive for piano than organ/synth sounds?

 

Leaning towards looking for a good deal on NS3 compact or 88. While I spent 10 excellent years with NS2c as my only keyboard, I have only very briefly experienced NS3 goodness. (had one for a week once)

[Paul Henry]

I was thinking: I could go to GC and trade in my mint Fantom7, Nautilus73 and NS3c and that should net me around half of

what I need for a new NS4C.

Sound about right?

 

Paul

[Macsaint777]

I won't disparage any retailer, but yes you'd be far better off selling those individually. You should be able to get close to $2800 for the NS3C alone. 

 

[Docbop]

3 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

I was thinking: I could go to GC and trade in my mint Fantom7, Nautilus73 and NS3c and that should net me around half of

what I need for a new NS4C.

Sound about right?

 

Paul

Most GC's will be up front with you and tell you they don't pay much for used gear and that they offer half of what they can determine to be the current used price.   Before I moved I sold some gear to GC and they  got on the internet and check price for my gear on eBay, they did some searching of other music stores used price, then made me an offer that was half of what they found.   Then ask they usually will give you an 10% off on a new piece of gear if you buy at the same time.    So they don't hide they hide they don't pay great, but it is easy way to go. 

[stoken6]

19 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

I was thinking: I could go to GC and trade in my mint Fantom7, Nautilus73 and NS3c and that should net me around half of

what I need for a new NS4C.

Sound about right?

 

Paul

I would have thought your NS3c would get you half way there on its own if sold privately. Nord commands crazy high s/h prices.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[jeffincltnc]

19 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

I was thinking: I could go to GC and trade in my mint Fantom7, Nautilus73 and NS3c and that should net me around half of

what I need for a new NS4C.

Sound about right?

 

Paul

 

My difference is approximately $2,000 and some change between the proceeds of selling my Nord Stage 3 Compact and the price of buying a new Nord Stage 4 73 HA.

 

I'm also keeping in mind that this includes that I am changing a Compact 73 SE waterfall keybed for the triple sensor Hammer Action, which would be a $500 above just getting another Compact model.  I certainly got a lot of value and use out of my Stage 3 Compact, took excellent care of it including keeping it clean and cosmetically unblemished and am selling it for most of what I paid for it a few years ago. If I use this as much as I think I will now for 6 years until a Stage 5 comes out, or doesn't come out I think I'm going to be ok on my investment.

 

Nord resale values are much better than any other keyboard I've owned.

[MathOfInsects]

20 hours ago, Paul Henry said:

I was thinking: I could go to GC and trade in my mint Fantom7, Nautilus73 and NS3c and that should net me around half of

what I need for a new NS4C.

Sound about right?

 

Paul

I'm not sure if this is a knock against GC or Nord, but resale value of the NS3C is quite healthy. No one expects a one-to-one trade for their old board against a later version of the same line. 

I can't figure out the reaction to the price. I mean I can, because it's on-script, but is anyone really surprised? Our previous Nords weren't exactly basement-bargains.

[Stokely]

As others have said, GC doesn't hide the fact that they will only offer roughly half of what they can sell it for.  Considering GC currently has a compact NS3 in great condition for 3100, that's not a lot of money for the seller.

That said--I absolutely hate the process of selling gear and I've got two unused keyboards sitting at home to show for it.  I need to bite the bullet and get to it.

I can only speak for myself about the price--when things start closing in on $4000, let alone $5700, I get sticker shock big time.  I'm that way about cars, houses and I suspect most of us are, where things hit a point where even if you *can* afford it, it's just hitting a "will not go there" point.    Right now my sticking point is somewhere in the low $3000s for a new keyboard, which rules out all but the compact NS3 when looping in used NS3s (and I don't need that one at all after buying an SK pro).  I've targeted a Roland Fantom 6 but if I don't get a deal on one it'll be used as $3600 is not worth it in my opinion.

Put another way, list the keyboards that are over $5000 that aren't some vintage equivalent of a '59 Les Paul.  It's not exactly a common price out there.  I'm not complaining as much as just shrugging and putting it out of mind, same way I would for some $80K car.

[ProfD]

50 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

I can't figure out the reaction to the price. I mean I can, because it's on-script, but is anyone really surprised? Our previous Nords weren't exactly basement-bargains.

Same thing happens at the Mercedes-Benz dealership.  Every now and then, someone will walk in complaining about the cost of the vehicles. 🤣😎

[AnotherScott]

47 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Put another way, list the keyboards that are over $5000 that aren't some vintage equivalent of a '59 Les Paul.  It's not exactly a common price out there.  I'm not complaining as much as just shrugging and putting it out of mind, same way I would for some $80K car.

 

OTOH, we are spoiled. Many of us old-timers were thrilled at just how much keyboard we could get for $2k when we bought a DX7 in 1983. That $2k would be $6k today. And we paid it and felt we were getting great value. It's all relative to the other available options.