Setlists and Patch Changes - What category do you fit in?

[Iconoclast]

I took a poll in a facebook group dedicated to Keyboard Players in Cover Bands and I thought I'd repeat it here:
 

SETLISTS AND PATCH CHANGES: Which Category(s) are you In?

A. I write down the patch addresses on a setlist using pencil and paper. I also still get the newspaper.

B. I utilize the Song/Setlist Mode in my main keyboard. I'm firmly planted in the 21st century!

C. I Inc/Dec patches using a footswitch. No hands, like a magician.

D. I use an offboard source from iPad or Computer to manage the setlist and command the patch changes. I also do I.T. in my day job.

E. I do D above...but configure or command multiple keyboards with a single command. My roadies name is...I forgot, but he's good.

F. I'd rather change keyboards than patches so I bring like 7 keyboards to the gig.

All joking aside, this subject interests me as I started somewhere in A and I'm now somewhere in D but I'd love to get to E.

--Discuss--Please mention the hardware/software that you're using

The facebook group results were surprisingly not a lot of people in column A.  The vast majority of responses were B or later. Not a lot of guys use footswitches, but a whole lot use offboard computers/iPads to keep setlists and command patch changes.  Also...a disproportionate amount of us are IT guys in real life. Weird.

[Moonglow]

I’m “B” and “C” using a Kronos 88 to do all of the heavy lifting (program changes, splits, layers, volume levels, etc.) for its internal programs as well as those in a Jupiter-80, all embedded in a Combi and then arranged in Setlist mode for live performance. Although I am a retired magician (true story) I don’t always use the foot switch, but it’s nice to have when both hands are busy.

 

I’m very interested in understanding what folks are using to accomplish “D” and “E” as I can see my rig evolving into something like that (sans I.T. job and roadie), especially with lighter gear.

[AnotherScott]

My answers would be different for set lists vs patch changes.

 

For set lists, I either use paper printout or an iPad app. If it's a gig where I don't need any lyrics or charts, I'll usually just use paper. I create the set lists for the band on my home computer. Once I've done that, the quickest thing to do is just print it out. Having to re-enter the songs into the iPad takes extra minutes for nothing, unless it's useful for bringing up the lyrics/charts. Sometimes the only songs I enter into the iPad's "set list" are the few I need charts for, and I follow my print-out for everything else.

 

For patch changes, I mostly pick the sounds as I need them, directly from the board. I rarely need patch change addresses, because most of the sounds I need are available just by pressing a button or tapping the screen. I may occasionally assemble new screens (or button sets) with different sound combinations, if needed for a gig. They're not put into set order, they're just there on the same screen. So one way or another, usually all my needed sounds for a gig are selectable from a single screen, or maybe two, so there's no need for addresses, I can just look at the screen and locate the sound. Though I've been using the Fantom-07 lately, where it is awkward to assemble/re-arrange the contents of screens for different gigs, so I've started using their Scene Chain feature (your option B). I've only used it on two gigs so far, though.

[Iconoclast]

42 minutes ago, Moonglow said:

I’m “B” and “C” using a Kronos 88 to do all of the heavy lifting (program changes, splits, layers, volume levels, etc.) for its internal programs as well as those in a Jupiter-80, all embedded in a Combi and then arranged in Setlist mode for live performance. Although I am a retired magician (true story) I don’t always use the foot switch, but it’s nice to have when both hands are busy.

 

I’m very interested in understanding what folks are using to accomplish “D” and “E” as I can see my rig evolving into something like that (sans I.T. job and roadie), especially with lighter gear.

While I loathe much of facebook, some of the groups that I'm on over there are actually pretty useful. It would be worth your time if you have an account to search out "Keyboard Players in Cover Bands" over there.

Some of the offboard patch changing sources were: Mainstage, Bandhelper, Gig Performer, Camelot Pro, set list from another hardware keyboard, FourScore, Setlist Maker Pro, OnSong, UnrealBook, Touch OSC, Cantible.  I must admit to having no clue what half of those even are.

[Delaware Dave]

It's proprietary information, if i told you then i'd have to kill you....   😂

 

What I can telI you is that I still do get a newspaper ...

[niacin]

B. Hammond SKpro, previously Hammond SK1

[Tusker]

4 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

 

D. I use an offboard source from iPad or Computer to manage the setlist and command the patch changes. I also do I.T. in my day job.

E. I do D above...but configure or command multiple keyboards with a single command. My roadies name is...I forgot, but he's good.

D/E

 

I trigger the patch changes in the setlist from a keyboard controller but the setlist (and the patches) live in Mainstage in the computer. During the set, I do not want to touch the computer.
 

No coding skills but I work with IT folks a lot! 

[HammondDave]

B and D… I use Korg Module for my setlist on my IPad and follow along with the set list on the MODX. 

[yannis D]

I create a set list on my NE5d and I change patches with the designated knob, song by song. 

I press the down arrow on my mac for the Mainstage patches when I use MS. The set list is ready there too, so it's just a press of a button. Sometimes i use my Korg Nanokontrol to change the MS patches or any other parameter on MS.

So i guess I am on "B"

 

[Al Coda]

11 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

E. I do D above...but configure or command multiple keyboards with a single command.

 

 

The above, no roadie needed.

Still use Miditemp PMM88E 128 MIDI-Ch. matrix switcher/processor.

An alternative is Kurzweil PC361´s "Setup" Mode and "Quick Access", which,- because it´s not my main keyboard,- doesn´t fit "B" in your list above 100%.

 

 

A.C.

[Legatoboy]

A,B,D,E .. but I'm not a major technical wizard ... 

[cphollis]

Worked in IT industry -- check.  Moderately geeky, not a software engineer.

Uses songlist/setlist feature of master board to drive the show, including light programs-- check.  I am using laptops for sound, lights, recording, etc. -- but not keys.

Aspires for external control using laptop/tablet -- nope, not any time soon.

 

A printed setlist + starting chord and a few reminders [e.g. keys solo in 3rd verse] is very, very effective for me.  I don't sing so no lyrics req'd.  As active setlists and variants grow, I do find myself wanting something that can organize objects at a higher level (voice, program, sequence, set, show, etc.) using a keyboard and a big screen.  That alone may drive me to using something external.

[DJkeys]

I use song mode of my NS3 and trigger the list in order with a single button press which changes programs on both my boards. 

 

-dj

[harmonizer]

During a gig I pick patches manually on my Roland FA-07 and Electro 3 as needed. Doing it via a footswitch or offboard device like an iPad would not make it any easier. I use about 10 different sounds on my FA-07 (a general purpose AP sound, with the others being built specially for one song). I use 8 or 9 different sounds in the Nord Electro 3 (one EP, one Wurli, one Clav, and the rest are various organ setups). 

[bjosko]

Well, I wish I was in D, but I’m back to somewhere between A or B.

Now, most of our song is on Hammond or/and various pianos, but we have some songs with brass, splits and dedicated programs. 
Often it is by scrolling to the right program, but I need to know the setlist, and hopefully no switch around in the songs in the middle of a set.

 I have started looking into Camelot Pro, and start thinking I could set up some patch changes here, depending on which keyboards I am using.

And depending on that also supplement some sounds from my IPad.

But so far have just scrolled through some tutorials, but I’m not sure if I will go that route.

 

Years back, I was playing in a cover band, and here I used a 360 systems 8x8 Midi patcher together with a simple Roland midi program changer. So the Roland was connected to my 360, and the 360 did the Midi routing and program changes for a couple keyboards, modules and an Atari ST that did some sequencer thing on a few tunes. All songs had a number, so I just dialed it in on the Roland, and all my keyboards was ready.

 I still have the 360 and the Roland on a shelf. 

[Sam Mullins]

I guess I’m B and E: Kronos Set List sending program change to Nord Stage 3.  Keyboards MIDI’d to each other; not unusual for me to have splits on both keyboards playing sound from other keyboard. Works well for me in duo situation where I have to cover lots of sonic ground on some songs (e.g. Enjoy the Silence has probably a dozen splits/layers). 
 

OTOH, we have enough material with just piano that we could do a whole night if one keyboard failed. I guess this is the engineer coming out in me:  lots of programming with a fail-safe mode. 😀

[stoken6]

I mainly do D, and I'm not surprised to find that it's popular. You don't need IT skills to use the tools available (beyond a basic understanding of MIDI and the ability to count to 127).

 

I also do A. I have my common "bread-and-butter" patches printed out on a small bit of paper attached to my top keyboard. (I don't get the newspaper though). That's for the spontaneous/jamming moments when I quickly need to dial up EP under strings, or clav with autowah under Moog square lead, and BandHelper doesn't have those patches associated to any specific song in tonight's set.

 

I sometimes wish I could do F. A gig with a stage piano, a clonewheel, a lead synth and a ROMpler all on separate playing surfaces would be cool. Although I know what would happen - I would need to play a woodwind line with my right hand while comping organ with my left, and the ROMpler's to the left of the organ...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Justin Havu]

In my normal setting, doing praise/worship stuff, usually B or C depending on how many presets I need for the occasion.  If the set is being done exactly as planned, it'll be C, with a MODX7.  If there's some structure, but a little room for improvisation and I need to get to different sounds quickly, I'll do that with the MODX, but I'll bring along the RD-1000 as my main piano/EP sounds.

 

On a very rare occasion, I'll go with F, where we're calling out songs and just going with the flow, and I can get to different sounds as I need to.  I haven't played a large rig in a while, but even though it's a ton of work to set up/tear down, it's quite fun watching audience reactions to a large rig, at least the audiences I play for.

 

[nursers]

D/E - I use Mainstage to send Midi CC to both my boards to switch patches

[analogika]

D. Set List Maker. 
 

also A, except also on on Set List Maker (but without MIDI commands) when I’m on a rig that doesn’t respond to MIDI. 1960s technology and all that. Or when it’s just the Stage, and I really can’t be bothered to add the complexity of another interface connection. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I'm a B and an E, depending on the gig (mainly depends on whether my main keyboard has adequate polyphony/suitable patches to cover all needed sounds). For most gigs where I run sounds from one keyboard, I use a second smaller keyboard strictly as a midi controller, but all patch/setup changes are done on the main keyboard (main board is either a Yamaha Motif XF8 using Master Mode, a Kurzweil PC4 using Quick Access mode w/setups, a Yamaha MODX-7 using Live Sets, or a Roland Fantom 7 using scenes and the Scene Chain function).

 

For E gigs where I need more than that, I use the PC4 as the master controller for patch/program/combi changes to additional keyboards, as needed, using the functionality in the Multi/Setup mode. Generally I haven't gone beyond using two keyboards midi'ed together. I haven't explored using another board as a master controller yet.

[JimboKeys]

For my one-man-band act with close to 100 songs with backing tracks:

 

Songs are arranged in a setlist in Cantabile on my laptop, which sends patch change commands to the keyboard(s) when the song is loaded. A footswitch gets me to the next song, and another starts the backing track.  (Though i also have a printed setlist so if i get a request for Johnny Cash i can find where in the list it is and jump ahead to that song.)

 

For the tribute band, with two unchanging sets:

 

Songs are in order in Master Mode in my Motif XF, with Set 1 in Bank A and Set 2 in Bank B.  Loading a song sends program changes to the other keyboard(s) and also to the laptop running Cantabile. The Cantabile setlist also has the songs in order --  each song includes whatever virtual instruments the song uses, in addition to the all-important lyrics / cheat sheet display.

 

-- Jimbo (retired software engineer)

[Tom Williams]

Just left a band after about 6 years, so I'll write as if present tense.

 

D-ish: I use a computer spreadsheet to maintain a master list of songs, their keys, "registrations" (took organ lessons at an early age) and other notes.  Then, for each gig, I copy and paste songs into set lists, large print (presbyopia; 22-30 point type on actual paper), about 15 songs per set.

 

I have to include the key as I transpose very easily, and so most songs aren't in a particular key in my mind -- more I IV V or whatever.

 

Registrations normally refer to multi presets on a Kurzweil PC4-7, usually a fairly standard combination such as organ on local keyboard plus electric piano driven by a second external controller.  If I gig with more than one sound source (e.g., PX-5S +/- keytar) each sound source gets its own registration column.

 

I have worked in IT in one way or another for approximately 40 years, but I still only play live on "hardware" synths. 

[EscapeRocks]

Totally depends on what hardware I am using at any particular gig.

 

For a computer only gig I have buttons programmed on my Arturia Keylab to Next or Previous patch in Mainstage

 

When using just hardware.  If using my MODX+61 up top, I use the setlist screen to send all program changes to Mainstage. I don't have to change the order in Mainstage, as the programs on the  MODX send PC to Mainstage

 

If using my Fantom -08 and MODX+ only, I use the Fantom in Chain mode to send PC to the MODX.

 

If using Fantom -08 and Arturia Keylab, I use the Fantom to send PC to Mainstage.

 

Any one of these scenarios are saved in the hardware boards and Mainstage

I have a few different setlists save on the boards, so I just pull up whichever is needed for the hardware and software I'm using on any particular gig.

I have been using my Casio PX-S3000 and Arturia Keylab lately....a great fit with my new piano shell. Both are used as controllers only, so the Keylab does the heavy lifting for accessing patches and other things in Mainstage

 

Side note: All of the possible songs we play at any given gig are setup in MS.

I also have "bread and butter" patches for when sitting in with other on generic shows.

 

[Stokely]

I've been B for a long while although some keyboards I've used don't even have a set list mode.  It has pluses and minuses--the big minus is that depending on the next song, it can be a scramble to change two keyboards to the next patch.  Most of the time my top keyboard is left on my main organ patch though, and I don't have that many songs that require specific patches.  I've threatened to start using an ipad (or one keyboard) to send patch changes but just haven't bothered.   If eventually I end up with a 3-device rig as I'm thinking--clonewheel over workstation with a tabletop synth--then I'll probably try to get an ipad or the workstation to send out appropriate patch changes.  That top clonewheel (sk pro) isn't much of an issue as I said as it has very few patches I use, so far (just bought it)--and one combi is basically four single patches.

[ABECK]

Onboard setlist creator works well enough for my needs (Previously Jupiter 80, currently K2700).  Simple but effective.

In the past, I used Setlist Maker on the iPad, which was great as I had all my patches assigned to my charts.  I switched to OnSong and found that programming MIDI program changes was overly complicated, so now i just use the iPad for charts and manage the patches on my hardware manually.

 

[jazzpiano88]

I typically play AP, EP, Clav, and Pad on a CP300 with preset combo layers and slider volume.   Organ is totally manual.  No MIDI patch control.

Organ's stereo output goes to the CP300 stereo input for a single source to the PA snake and my individual monitor.

 

 

 

 

[timwat]

Since I got the Kronos back in 2012, I've been B with Setlist Mode, but no MIDI control of external patch changes to other keyboards.

 

Now that I rarely do cover band stuff, it's very much hardware only patch changes like it's 1999 (nod to Prince).

 

In the prog band I'm providing 2nd keys, I'm CP4, OB6, Kronos and Vocoder - all standalone.

 

This weekend's private party, I was CP4 and Kronos.

 

No MIDI patch control. But I don't get a newspaper.

[kaptainkeys]

For me, sometimes the setlist is on paper or called out as we go, and I have generic gig patches arranged in a few quick access banks on my PC4.  For more structured shows (although I haven't played any yet with my PC4), if I get a setlist beforehand, I'll arrange the songs in a QA bank, and if not, I'll write down the patch number on the paper setlist and type it in during the show.

 

I don't get the newspaper

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I was really into the Mainstage stuff for a couple of years before the pandemic, and I *do* work in IT, which is part of why when I came back to gigging after the pandemic, all the individualized programming felt like too much work. I prefer to be able to go on the fly. And I do really like when my keyboards can be more or less one instrument for the whole show. You know, this is the "piano" (sometimes acoustic, sometimes electric); this is the organ; this is the synth. Sometimes that's not practical but it's my preference.

 

So, I dropped the laptop part, and I bring like seven keyboards to a gig. I mean, I'm trying to keep it to three or under. Honestly.