Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[HammondDave]

I'd like to see that; a speaker cabinet over 40' tall!

 

I don't know... If its true that one 8" speaker fills a room of over 500 people with no FOH support, maybe the Staples Center would only need an 18"? Boy, that save some energy and cost. Plus it would sound a hell of a lot better than those giant arrays.

[Dave Bryce]

If its true that one 8" speaker fills a room of over 500 people with no FOH support

Remember - it's not one 8" speaker. It's four drivers, each with their own amp.

 

I haven't played in a room with 500 people...but I did play in a room with a couple of hundred, and it really did fill the room (in a way I've never heard a personal sound system fill a room), and I really did have both band members and audience members tell me they've never been able to hear my keyboards so clearly.

 

So far, my favorite piece of feedback was a line I quoted in an earlier from a drummer I play with: "It makes us sound better as a band".

 

My offer for you to come check one out stands.

 

dB

[Raymb1]

Aspen did say in an earlier post that he built a large SS for Ray Manzarek, that cost in the $4,000.00 range.

[Al Coda]

I'd like to see that; a speaker cabinet over 40' tall!

 

 

Yes,- and the case and truck for it as well ...

 

A.C.

[Brettymike]

So, why haven't large concert sound reinforment companies adopted this type of CPS approach? Seems like it would make the whole band sound better to everyone in the stadium...

 

 

There is a beginning for everything , and it could be on the drawing board now.

And they would pay Aspen a pretty penny in Royalties to use his intellectual property....the mind boggles with the possibilities....$$$$$$$$.....

 

I picture a huge truck mounted SSS , that drives to the concert venue and parks right beside the stage

 

Brett

[mate stubb]

So, why haven't large concert sound reinforment companies adopted this type of CPS approach? Seems like it would make the whole band sound better to everyone in the stadium...

 

Maybe this technology is patented?

[Doerfler]

So far, my favorite piece of feedback was a line I quoted in an earlier from a drummer I play with: "It makes us sound better as a band".

 

dB

 

sure as hell can't argue with that.

[CEB]

I have stayed away from this thread. It is way too big to catch up on and I can't buy any more gear this year.....

 

But has anyone mentioned how this is similar to Mid Side Mic recording and does mutiple SSs then create phasing issues.

 

Just curious. This was probably covered on page 46 or something.

[Throbert]

72 pages of space station.

[Joe Muscara]

Go to My Stuff - Preferences, and set it to a higher number. Mine is set to 50 and I only see this thread is 43 pages.

[timwat]

We should have a Final Exam, and the only way to pass it is to have studied every page. Winner gets a free SS.

[16251]

I have stayed away from this thread. It is way too big to catch up on and I can't buy any more gear this year.....

 

But has anyone mentioned how this is similar to Mid Side Mic recording and does mutiple SSs then create phasing issues.

 

Just curious. This was probably covered on page 46 or something.

The answer from Aspen about using 2 SS is on this page.

[mate stubb]

The answer from Aspen about using 2 SS is on this page.

 

Not unless the viewers have the number of posts per page set to the same as you do. I clearly do not.

[16251]

The answer from Aspen about using 2 SS is on this page.

 

Not unless the viewers have the number of posts per page set to the same as you do. I clearly do not.

OK

 

from aspen:

 

While I'd love to double my CPS Sales tomorrow, I have to be honest guys; one Center Point Stereo Spacestation is actually more effective that two. But that is the second most common question I get asked once somebody first hears a CPS system.

 

I know that may seem counter intuitive to what you are used to with conventional stereo speaker systems, but CPS is just different than any other system you have ever experienced. In this case, less really is more.

 

So I rarely recommended using two in a room, with the following exceptions; if they are spaced very far apart in a long room application (then I'd place one on either end), or if two are used to applify different stereo material such as a band's instruments thru one, and vocals thru the other (that BTW sounds REAL good when stacked). I have also used two on opposite ends of a room to do a 5.1 sound track (but that requires a mixer to get the Center back to L&R Front)...but you get surround sound image EVERYWHERE...really crazy stuff!

 

But for what most of you want; a big omnidirectional 3D stereo image that is seemingly everywhere without blasting ears off...one is comfy, while two is a crowd. Here's why.

 

The secret behind Center Point Stereo effect is there is just one single "Center" point of transmission of two electronically altered "out of phase" signals that do not have ANY common information. The CPS encoder inhales L&R, and exhales "Sum" (all the common, or mono parts of L&R), and "Difference" (all the content that is different, or unique to L&R). We label these encoded signals "Front and Side". They each have their own level control, so you can adjust the stereo image for various venues (more width for a dead room, less for a very live venue).

 

Then we amplify these Front & Side signals thru two speakers that are "physically" out of phase so they do not "mix; like ordinary L&R speakers do, but rather they "repel" off each other to enhance dispersion. And because they are out of phase, they remain pretty much unchanged until they reach your ears...where they "come together". That's why CPS produces a uniform "3D" stereo image no matter where you stand in the room.

 

I guess I can not over emphasize how cool it is for the player to hear exactly what his band mates hear, AND know this is what his audience hears!

 

In fact, the farther away you stand, they more the Front and Side interact and "bloom". So the stereo image actually gets better as you move away, it will even travel thru open doorways into adjacent rooms and never collapse.

 

Perhaps more importantly, the stereo image sounds the SAME no matter where you are because there is only ONE "Center Point" of origin. You just have to hear it, I know it all sounds crazy, but it really works.

 

The reason conventional spaced L&R speakers do not work in live performance (and never will) is that they are, of course, "in phase" signals (electronically, and physically) with different content. So by design, they will only produce a very small "sweet spot" where they first intersect. And that's "good news" for those lucky few in the sweet spot.

 

However, that is "bad news" for everone else standing in the "sour spot"! And, no matter where you stand outside that small sweet spot, it will sound different from every other spot. Either to much L, or too much R...or worse you hear a nasty result of these in phase signals mix to create a maze of weird cancellations...and the more reflection in the room the worse it sounds. This is why most FOH sound system, albeit stereo capable, are mixed "mono" so the sound at least remains uniform and intelligible for the larger part of the audience.

 

But when you use two CPS speaker systems close together, then you basically have two pairs of Front speakers that are "in phase, and two pairs of side speakers that are also in phase and this condition will produce even MORE signal cancellations and weird acoustics than a conventional L&R stereo pair would.

 

In other words, "audio caca occurs", disrupting our "Center Point" 3D image magic.

 

Short answer; one CPS speaker is all you need to produce a uniform stereo image everywhere.

[CEB]

Thanks

[Danny Linguini]

So, why haven't large concert sound reinforment companies adopted this type of CPS approach? Seems like it would make the whole band sound better to everyone in the stadium...

I would guess that because there's a whole lot more going on inside the SS, the effect is probably a lot less scalable, unlike just stacking plain ol' L & R's higher and higher. You see how variable things can get with just the four drivers and their respective controls; I'm sure the effect could be replicated on a huge scale, but it would probably take quite a bit more tweaking than just adding more and bigger speakers.

[Raymb1]

I think Aspen said similar but not the same.

[Brettymike]

We should have a Final Exam, and the only way to pass it is to have studied every page. Winner gets a free SS.

 

I have looked at every page , some of the posts I sped red.

I wanna bigger SS for my prize

 

Honestly , this box of sound tricks is fascinating!...

 

Brett

[cphollis]

We should have a Final Exam, and the only way to pass it is to have studied every page. Winner gets a free SS.

 

I'm in. I could use a second one

[Theo Verelst]

Who's gonna professor or "judge" the contest or exam ? Objectivity would be nice...

[garnermike]

rickp: My experiences with the v.3 sound/tone are the very same as yours wrt using a smallish bass combo amp for the sub link. I use this as the combo amp/sub link:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--IBAP3115

 

BTW, how do you set the EQ's on you combo amp? I run mine all at 12 o'clock.

 

[Ledbetter]

Aspen, great info in your last post, but people may still have the misconception that "mono" comes out of the sub out, usable for FOH.

[cphollis]

Now that we're 2000+ posts into this thing ...

 

If you're bored, go back to the beginning of this thread, and start reading.

 

It's a fascinating story of a group of musicians who are slowly discovering a significantly new technology that can impact what matters to them, e.g. their live sound. Something really new, to an audience that largely can't accept that anything can be new in their world.

 

There's a classic storyline here: a brilliant innovator, a skeptical audience, initial enthusiasm, more skepticism, more enthusiasm -- until we get to more mundane concerns like availability, price, stands, covers, accessories, etc.

 

Aspen is well on his way to success with the SSv3. And, in many ways, it all started here on this thread, with a great bunch of guys.

[Aspen]

Now that we're 2000+ posts into this thing ...

 

If you're bored, go back to the beginning of this thread, and start reading.

 

It's a fascinating story of a group of musicians who are slowly discovering a significantly new technology that can impact what matters to them, e.g. their live sound. Something really new, to an audience that largely can't accept that anything can be new in their world.

 

There's a classic storyline here: a brilliant innovator, a skeptical audience, initial enthusiasm, more skepticism, more enthusiasm -- until we get to more mundane concerns like availability, price, stands, covers, accessories, etc.

 

Aspen is well on his way to success with the SSv3. And, in many ways, it all started here on this thread, with a great bunch of guys.

 

Yes agreed...in spades...and this has been a long wonderful 70+ Page wild ride for me too. I also believe w/o this forum I could never got the message out so quick, and/or had this incredibly successful launch. I am TRULY grateful for all the skeptics who became believers...and the believers who've stepped up and volunteered to be my "customer support team"! I feel like I have a house full of new brothers in arms!

 

I have been the lone voice in the wilderness for YEARS on this technology, and although Fender had some good success with their SFX acoustic electric guitar amps (my CPS patent), I always felt my "choir" was the keyboardist. Now I feel like Kevin Costner in Field of Breams...I built it and you came. Now you guys are my all star team that came out of that corn field!

 

Guys, I've been developing products for over 40 years, 5 utility patents and sold 140K copies of my Tube Amp Book, so I've had a few "hits". But this last year was my best ever, and the SS v.3 is by far my "favorite" product yet. All made possible by partners like Eminence (who makes it for me turnkey), Sweetwater who covered my play, and YOU who LISTENED to my story, kept an open mind and then took that leap of faith (preordering something you never heard)...then SHARING both your gig reports and even expanding the application "tips" like that baffle thread (I"ll have another thought on that I'll share next week, gonna try something over the week end).

 

So I have really enjoyed preaching to a choir that really LISTENS...and then GETS IT....and then preaches BACK!

 

For example, I just saw my repost from 16251 on the "are two SS even better than one?" (BTW, THANKS! I couldn't have said that any better myself)) But what jumped out at me was that I had opened that post with this comment in the first paragraph:

 

"that is the second most common question I get asked once somebody first hears a CPS system."

 

Strange, but nobody ever asked (and I don't believe I ever answered here), "OK Aspen, so what is the FIRST most common question they ask when they first hear it?"

 

So let's have some contest fun; the first one who can guess what the FIRST most common question is AND what my answer is (and sill is) gets a SS v.3 cover in the mail, PLUS a $5 bag of freshly fire roasted in the shell peanuts from my local Mexican swap meet (best in the world).

 

Game on boys (BTW, DB is disqualified as I think he already knows this)....sorry Dave :> (

 

Hint; the answer has been a topic discussed in this thread....

 

Gotta get some rest now, will check replies first thing in the morning...

 

 

[Brettymike]

'First new idea's are ridiculed , then they are violently opposed , then they are accepted as self-proven' - Arthur Schopenhauer (German Philosopher 1788-1860).

 

1st most common question - how the Hell does that one speaker make stereo!!??

 

Brett

 

 

[Danny Linguini]

Most common question: "Will it blend?"

 

Honestly, I have no clue. I had so many questions when I first heard about this (which have all been answered but one - how will MY rig sound through it in the places I play), so my best guess would be what Brett said.

[Jetrocker]

Most common question - How does CPS work?

[HAMEGZ]

Aspen, I was going to try to get a jump on the question by going to your website and listening to some videos to see if the question was broached.

 

 

I thought your NAMM video might lend the answer.

 

SO upon opening the video and watching the first minute or so where you introduce yourself,I remarked to myself, Listen to all the LOUD darn playing on the floor there from the other booths.

I had read the floor is loud from all the sounds, and I figured it was coming from other booths, since you were far away from your booth.

 

HAH!!!! It was YOUR booth, I saw the organist rocking away behind you.Now, if that isn't a testimony for your little box filling up a space, nothing is.

 

LOUD and CLEAN!!!!

 

You rock, brother.

[Doug Robinson]

I can't think of the first most obvious question, drat! But I have a new question for you, Aspen--how many units are in use in the field right now? Seems like the number might be around 150 or so? When I am showing it to keyboardists down here, I think there is a little extra cache in letting them know that it isn't everywhere...yet.

[wineandkeyz]

I've been following this thread from the start, but I don't recall this question being asked yet. If it has, I apologize.

 

This is for folks who play larger venues -- 2000 or so -- or large outdoor shows where you use the SS as a stage monitor and you rely on the FOH to fill the hall. Several people have mentioned that you often need to tweak APs a bit to sound good through the SS. How does that end up sounding through the FOH? My concern is getting a great sound onstage that sounds like ass out front. Or am I imagining a problem where there is none?