garnermike

I starting this SpaceStation thread back in June 2014. Nice to see it still occasionally fielding questions, getting reactions, etc. I have recently gone in a new direction to assist with the low frequency sound output when using the v.3, and it's working out very well. Thought I'd share. I purchased a Turbosound IP300. See at http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Turbosound/Loudspeaker-Systems/Portable/iP300/p/P0CCH It's available at most music outlets for $399. It's only 26 lbs, so it's easy on my 70-year-old back. 600 watts, two channels, with surprisingly big low end. What's neat is that you can run a stereo keyboard's left and right out-channels into the IP300's two channels first, and then cable them both over to the two v.3 inputs. OR, if you're short on set-up time (or lazy), you can run your keyboard to the v.3 first and simply connect it up to the IP300 via a cable from the v.3's sub out. There is slightly better stereo effect by running things the first way I describe, but only a very discerning ear can really tell.

Garnermike here. I began this incredibly long SSv3 thread back in June 2014. I don't follow it very religiously anymore, but a few posts I read recently prompt me to offer these comments: -I use the SSv3 about half as often as I used to. Totally depends on the venue. If the room is one big open space or outside, I don't use it. Instead, I'll use two PA speakers (one for each kb channel). If the room is smaller with partitions/turns, I'll use the SSv3 connected (via the sub out) to either a 12" PA speaker or a 12" kb amp. Like most folks on this thread, I do this to capture/throw frequencies lower than the SSv3 can handle and to have the kb's sound seemingly "turn corners.". -I never use the SSv3 alone. My band requires the keys to project solid lows. -I have used the SSv3 with the side speaker (1) facing me; (2) facing away from me; (3) facing up to the ceiling; and (4) facing down onto a hard floor. I realize it's all "to each, his own," but I don't hear any substantive differences among any of these set-ups. And, as far as I can determine, the audience in various areas of my venues can't either. -I'd love to own the newer bigger version of Aspen's brainchild (such that hauling and connecting two amps would not be necessary), but 64 lbs and $1100 make the bigger unit a no-go for me. -Have used balanced and unbalanced cables in using/connecting the SSv3, and just cannot detect any advantage to using one type over the other. -the one clear advantage I hear in using the SSv3 over other amp set-ups is being able to project a keen high-frequency tone/voice that other amps can't deliver. Playing a lot of reggae and rockabilly, one of the SK1 patches that I created and use a lot is a harpsichord or 12-string guitar "extra voice" layered over a B3 organ voice. The SSv3 does a superior job in projecting a sharp, cutting, stringy guitar-like sound in that layered-on voice.

I am with you 100%. I have never regretted buying my v.3 (nor did I regret buying the v.2 years before that). I've used either a v.2 or v.3 since 2010 in over 600 gigs, and on the two occasions I couldn't use it during that time, was totally disappointed in my sound. The only keyboardist I personally knew who didn't like it and returned it, was one who felt it didn't provide clarity on the low-end frequencies, and I think didn't want to run a second amp to address that.

Hey, Dave. If you go back to the original post that started this thread (Page #1, June 2014), you see that it was mine. I haven't been on KC for a long time (long story). Anyway, I just saw that you had to ban Aspen. That's too bad. But rules are rules. Just wanted to reinforce your comment that Aspen is "easy to find." He certainly is, and I have always found him accessible via direct email and phone calls. Thanks for moderating this site, and also for contributing to this humungous SpaceStation thread! Garnermike

Well we just got this upgrade kit going recently so I guess we've sold maybe 5 total MK2 upgrade kits so far. I think they have all been the full C kit w/ 3 main drivers replaced and the 2 L-pads....everyone seemed very happy. But this is really for the DIY crowd, it's not for everybody. Also not something I am doing as a "business model", so I am not really "pushing it". It's just available to those who have an interest in modernizing their CPS amp with our new custom made drivers without having to buy a new SS3. Also, I believe it is my personal responsibility to support a former Groove Tubes or current Aspen Pittman Designs customer as long as I draw breath, and no matter how long ago they purchased my design. To your question of "how many" MK2 amps, I am really not sure. Unfortunately, all my production journals went to Fender when I sold GT back in '08. I recall we did 2 or 3 runs of 100 amps, then one last run up to 200. So, maybe 500 tops. That last run went to Fender and mostly arrived after the sale. Since they had no plans to continue with the Spacestation, these were blown out below cost...I think many here may have bought them as low as $200 in that close out sale. So, spending another $200 to upgrade these older MK2 amps to a SS3 component level is actually not a bad deal in the end. Of course that bad ending for the MK2 put a marketing challenge on me when I reintroduced the v.3, even 7 years later. But because of my single US dealer partner business model and no marketing expense (I am APD's only employee, and we do not advertise!), that keeps the street price much lower and gives a better value to the customer. The good news is; the new Spacestation is doing VERY well. It is one of the best selling KB ever at Sweetwater (my only dealer outlet in the US, other than our website), and I am happy to report that we've made far more SS3 amps already in just these 12 months since it's release by many times than we ever sold MK2 amps. Then also as you have witnessed, this mega thread here recently passing the "Million Views" threshold with 100s of positive gig reports from my early adopters here (THANK YOU ALL!) is really unprecedented for any amp, much less a keyboard amp! Without today's web based forums like this, and my extremely cool dealer partners like Chuck Surack over at Sweetwater here in the US, and Hans Thomann from Thomann Music Haus in Germany who supplies all of Europe direct, and at comparable prices to our US MAP, this CPS "little big" amp would never have been. So I am am more than happy, and very grateful this Christmas season. Many thanks again to all my SS3 user and dealer partners! I appreciated your post on this, Aspen, for two reasons. First, I started this SS3 thread back in June of 2014, and it's nice to see that it has become one of the longest threads ever. Second, I based that post (and many of my other thread posts) on my good experiences with a MKII. I bought that MKII from Sweetwater for a discount price of $299 around Thanksgiving of 2011 (the last run of MKIIs sold?). As for the SS3 I bought, it's now over 100 gigs old. Nary a single complaint from me, and lots of compliments from listeners. I always use it with either a Motion Sound K-12 kb amp (100w, 12 inch woofer), or a Fender Rumble 100 combo bass amp (100w, 12 inch woofer) linked via the subwoof jack---just to get a little more lower end. All good!

My SK1 was purchased in July 2011, and it now has over 400 gigs on it. Once, in 2013 (at about 200 gigs), a screw fell out of the bottom. I fortunately found it and screwed it back in. I also noticed that quite a few of the screws on the SK1 were not tight. So every 6 months or so, I tighten them all up.

I just never got ground hum from my SS2 or SS3. Now, my Motion Sound amps are a different story!

And I spent about $15 in Velcro, presentation board, and chair leg pads and did this: https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2684211/Re_Head_s_up_SpaceStation_keyb#Post2684211 Over 350 gigs (with the SS2 and SS3), NO DIAL DAMAGE. And my vehicle is crammed every gig. Yes, it doesn't protect the other surfaces of the SS3, but I don't care about that.

DanL: I have used that little amp stand, but found that regardless of whether the SS is laid horizontally or vertically on it, the bars of the stand tend to get in the way of making easy dial adjustments. I have use this one... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/gator-combo-amp-stand?rNtt=gator amp stand&index=3 ...which is OK but doesn't give you a very forward facing "lean" before it destabilizes. It does fold very flat and is light however. I have also used this one.... http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/musicians-gear-deluxe-amp-stand ...but it really disallows positioning the SS vertically, and it's just a bigger stand all around.. I am now using this one..... http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RS7500?adpos=1o3&creative=55281441601&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CMK6g4aS0cYCFZKRHwodQ4UJVQ and prefer it. Accommodates using the SS vertically or on its side; gets the amp about 8 inches off the floor; folds very compactly; is lightweight; and is relatively cheap ($29).

"The sound, footprint & weight of the SS just makes it a no brainer to me. Sk1 + SS = ~55lbs of pure playing pleasure. I feel very mobile these days, toss them in the car at a moments notice & roll." Doug, this has been my very same thinking for going on 5 years now, first using the SSv.2 and now the SSv.3 with my SK1. At 65 years old and with a bad back, I find this gear tandem to be a gig-saver. That the SS has reduced lugging size and weight while IMPROVING my SK1's sound is a pure win-win.

Hardware: LOL. It looks like half the venues/stages we play on, and the gear set-up ("crawling over each other")very similar to ours too. Love having the SS in these settings, as it helps to reduce my own footprint.

Short of a band member who complains about being in the line of fire from the side speaker, there's no difference (that I can detect) in using the SS with the side speaker facing up, facing down, or in its normal side-throwing position. Yes, a hard floor helps if it's facing down, and low-ceiling hurts if it's facing up.

Yes, I agree. I had/used a Traynor K1, and then, later, two K1s, which I linked in Traynor's proprietary stereo mode. Even though I owned a SSv.2 at the time, I was still looking to see if the K1s could give me true stereo definition. They couldn't and didn't. The SSv.2 out-did them in stereo effect. I sold them both, returning to using the SSv.2 exclusively. I later tried the Motion Sound Stereo 500sn, but it too didn't measure up in stereo effect to the SS (even though the 500sn had so-called stereo-expander capability). I returned that 500sn, and upgraded to the SSv.3, which is much improved over the v.2....

By now, steady readers of this >100-page novel know that I am an unabashed true-believer in Aspen's technology. But I just had to post that I am still in after-glow--yes, even after several hundred gigs using either the v.2 or v.3--from yesterday's gig experience. Average sized venue, with 3' riser wood stage, high ceiling and FOH sound support and techie provided. I always keep my set-up for these sorts of gigs/venues consistent and simply. Cables from my SK1 into the v.3 then sub-out to my support amp (Promethean P3115 bass combo) then DI out of the back of that to FOH. Call me crazy but I prefer putting the v.3 on one side of me and the bass amp to the other side, both of them set about 4 feet behind me. I just like the way both my ears get engaged. I also asked the techie to put the keys in my monitor with the EQ at middling amounts for high and mid frequencies, and tad more for low frequency. I thought I was sounding really good and was smiling all night long. After the gig, the sound guy says to me "I am not sure what you were doing, what your gear is about, or even exactly what we were running through to the house system, but just gotta tell you that I haven't had keys, especially Leslie-less organ sounds, sound that full or project that clearly ever before." Then he asked me to walk him through my gear and connections.

As I have said before, based on using either the SS v.2 or v.3 at hundreds of gigs now, it takes a bit of a "leap of faith" if you are going to like and appreciate the SSv.3. When you are sitting at your keys and sending sound through the v.3, you can't really hear what the audience in the room is hearing/experiencing. But I do know (believe) from all the audience and musician feedback I've ever gotten, and also from having others play my keys while I walked around venue confines, that the audience's audio experience is better, fuller and more embracing with the v.3.

I have tried tweeking the SK1 internal rotary sim for hours, days, weeks. Didn't like it when I first got my SK1 5 years ago, and still don't. My main complaint is with its fast speed (too fast, with no option/way to slow it down enough for my taste. I was involved in a long thread here years ago re: my disappointment. Tried the SK1 rotary sim played through two amps (one per channel) and also through the SSv.2 and SSv.3. I didn't like it played through any of those amp set-ups (although the sound out of the SS's was improved). I tried the Vent and Lex sim pedals, and finally settled on the Lex. Played through the SSv.3, it sounds great--again, to my ears.

SSv3 saved me yesterday. Playing outdoors as a smallish benefit concert, stage sound was being provided by the organizing band. Really quality set-up in terms of mains/monitors/subwoofers. The bands playing previous to us sounded really good. The common backline of gear was to have included a keyboard amp run to FOH. As we were only to play for 50 minutes and all bands only had 10 minutes to rush the stage and play, I was planning on foregoing playing through the SSv.3 and just playing through the provided kb amp/FOH. Last minute, I decided to throw the SSv.3 in my car---mainly to have it handy if other kb'ists there wanted to see one. Well, first thing I discovered is that there in no kb amp in the backline; I'd be playing through FOH only. Next, when the band before us played, the monitors and/or mains on my side of the stage kept cutting in and out due to the heat (sunny and 97 degrees). Thinking "better safe than sorry," I retrieved the SSv.3 from my car and, when it was our turn to play, I ran my keys into it and then sent the subwoof link to the FOH. Sure enough, during our slot, both the mains and monitor nearest me cut out for good; all I had to give me any sense of what I was sounding like and how loud I was was the SSv.3. Yeah, I suppose any amp could have played this rescue role, but what the other musicians and a few audience members told me afterwards made me smile. They all pretty much said that my keys resonated more clearly, were much more well-defined, and ...well... had a more "intimate" (to use a word one of them used) feel to them. This was playing under a large eave and projecting out to a big, wide-open space.

As I've said a few times here before, setting the sub-woofer (or bass combo amp) post-SS, via a simple and direct connection (straight out of the SS's sub-link and with just enough volume on the sub-woof/bass amp to hear its contribution) is the more convenient and more than adequate way to go. Also, for those of you who use a sub-woof/bass amp with your SS but report that you can't hear the SS sound, here's something that I do in positioning my set-up that helps me appreciate what they are projecting. I often use and place (when space will allow) the SS and my linked bass combo as if the they were just two mono amps---one on each side (L & R) of my keyboard seat and angled up toward my ears. It's not so much a stereo effect that you'll hear, but it is a cool sounding experience and satisfies my need to hear them --- all the while knowing (trusting, actually) that the SS is working its stereo effect magic around the room. I fully acknowledge that this runs counter to the advice to get the SS farther away from you so as to let the "bloom" reach your ears. But it satisfies my ears, so I often do it. Suggest you try it; can't hurt, can it?

Dave: You may be misinterpreting what the majority of SS users/posters are saying? They are not saying they can't hear themselves with the SS; they mostly are saying that, at first, they can't hear the difference, i.e., the stereo effect, that the SS is touted for. Once they learn various distancing, positioning, and/or side-speaker deflecting options, the SS's effect is better heard.

MotiDave: My low-tech suggestion? Simplify. Try leaving out the Behringer. Run your keys directly into the SS, and then send its sub-link to FOH. Put the SS behind you (at least 5 feet) of you can. Have FOH give your monitor and the stage main speakers deeper low response.

Yes, one needs to put some distance between oneself and the SS. You might also try using the SS horizontally, trying it with the side speaker facing up and then facing down. And if you were expecting to hear that back-and-forth, L and R alternating stereo "wobble" (that you would hear when using two separate mono amps from your L and R outputs), you won't, so don't. Using an SS does take a bit of a "leap of faith" (on the kb player's part) that there is indeed a stereo effect filling the room. Meanwhile, believe what your wife is telling you!

Will be faced with three very different gigs this holiday weekend, acoustically-speaking. For any SS newbies, just thought I'd share my plans for positioning/using the SS, FWIW to y'all. (Reminder: I play an SK1. For these medium-large gigs, I tend to use the SS's sub-woofer link, either going to a G-K MB110 combo bass amp (10" speaker, 100 watts) or a Promethean P3115 combo bass amp (15" speaker, 300 watts). And very generally speaking, I set the EQ's (high, mid, low) on those bass amps all at 12 o'clock (maybe set the low [bass] at 1 o'clock). And I keep the volume of those bass amps just to the point where I can hear it kicking in to reinforce/complement the SS.) First venue is outdoors, in a pedestrian mall lined by two brick buildings (former tobacco warehouses). The band is on a 12" high, heavily-carpeted riser, and the entire stage is covered with a soft canvas canopy. Given the soft canopy above and the soft surface floor below, there are really no other options but to set up the SS in its normal vertical position (can't hope to bounce the SS sound off those surfaces). I'll just place it atop the larger linked bass amp. Given that the mall is quite big (long) and about 1000 people show up, I'll run a cable from the Promethean's DI to our main PA/FOH set-up, and bleed in some SS volume. Second venue is a medium-sized club with a small band area footprint, a hard floor, and a venue owner who does not want us to drive away customers with high volume. I'll use the smaller G-K bass amp as the sub-link, and an amp stand for the SS, positioning it horizontally, with the side speaker angled down toward the hard floor. I have done this several times now, and the sound/bloom reflection off the hard floor has been very good. Finally, the last gig is again back outside, facing a parking lot, and the band is under a very extended/high/hard building eave. I'll use the sub-link to the larger bass combo amp, and place the SS horizontally on the amp stand again---but this time aiming the side speaker UPWARD. I played this same spot a year ago, and set up my older v.2 up this way, and the bloom was one of the best I ever experienced with that unit.

" Just place your SS3 facing directly into a corner, about 1-2" away, thereby creating a poor man's Klipsch horn..." Will try that sometime. But did you mean 1-2 INCHES or 1-2 FEET.

ASPEN said: "Adding a sub or bass amp DOES add LF support...but it can be over done. A little sub goes a long way." Yes, Aspen, this is what I have found to be true with the v.3 and even the earlier v.2. It's why I set my sub-linked bass combo at relatively low volume (from the point at which I can just hear it coming at my ears as I turn its volume up) before we start to play to the crowd, and only raise it if it my keys seem to get lost among the other instruments once we are actually playing to the crowd for real. And as I said earlier, I prefer to have the bass amp set at mid-highs, mid-mids, and only a tad more than mid-lows. I believe it will be common mistake for v.3 "newbies" to overdo the low frequencies on the sub-link'ed amp.

For additional volume and bass response, all I do (and have done for hundreds of gigs with a SSv.2 and now the SSv.3) is simply go into the SS, then sublink it to a bass combo amp of at least 100 watts (small/medium venue) or 200 watts (larger venue). For outdoors or really big spaces (or playing with a truly loud band), I use the larger bass combo amp option and then go from its direct out into the band's PA or the FOH. In the latter cases, things have always sounded good to me, my audience spotters, and the sound reinforcement techies. Feedback I've gotten from the times that I have had the front and side speakers mic'ed separately then sent to the FOH has not convinced me it is worth doing. Oh, and as many times as I have set that sublinked bass combo amp on just heavy bass, I've disliked the sound I get. For as long as I can remember, I have set the dials on that supporting combo amp at half treble, half-mids, and two-thirds bass. Call me crazy..........