Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[spazzkey]

This Friday I'll be using the SS at my biggest venue with it so far, Tipitina's. I'll have two boards, the SV1 and the Sk1. Thing is, the sound guys at Tip's are pretty particular about keyboardists giving them separate outputs for each board rather than submixing them.

 

Solution: Run the Sk1 out to two DIs for FOH. Take the outputs from those DIs and run them into the SV1's audio inputs. Run the SV1's 1/4" outputs (which mix in the input signal) to the SS. Run the SV1's XLR outputs (which don't mix in the input signal) to FOH.

 

The gig is a George Harrison tribute show, so it'll mostly be AP, EP and organ, but there will be a few opportunities for some swirling stereo psychedelic craziness too.

 

wow - way to figure it out! lucky the sv1 has audio inputs - hope I don't run into that situation - neither of my boards have audio inputs...

[KingstonCrim]

This Friday...

The gig is a George Harrison tribute show, so it'll mostly be AP, EP and organ, but there will be a few opportunities for some swirling stereo psychedelic craziness too.

Man, I wish I could go see that show! If anyone happens to video it, please post the link!

[JoeToGo]

JoeToGo -

 

I see you went with the GK bass combo route (rather than the Behringer Sub route others are going with).

 

I'm attracted to the GM MB series as well - but don't know whether the 110, 112 or 115 is the wisest route. Trying to maximize my potential LF, while minimizing my schlep.

 

What's been your experience so far pairing the SS with the GK? Like you, I'm finding the SS alone is great for jazz and more sensitive gigs - but I'm also playing in a loud funk band and need the LF support.

 

Thanks for any insight you can provide...

 

Tim

 

I replied to Tim in a PM, but some others may be interested as well ...

 

Somebody earlier on this thread reco'd a GK MB115 as being suitable not just soundwise but also in appearance. Maybe it isn't necessary -- maybe the blatting that alarmed me from the CX-3's low notes isn't going to damage the SpaceStation's speaker, but I haven't got Aspen here to reassure me that it's OK & frankly I don't want to risk it.

 

IMO, the GK MB115 provides more low-end resonance than anyone needs to augment the SS; a 112 or even 110 would be sufficient for anything short of earthquake reproduction. They are also a bit smaller, something to consider when one or two inches difference might mean fitting or not fitting.

 

I've been using the MX-60's headphone output to control the sub volume -- it's kinda hard to gauge how much to add up close, and I don't want it to obscure the SS's sound. When I get more used to both, I expect I'll run the GK from the SS's sub out.

 

One reason I didn't go with the Behringer is that it appears to use a different kind of cable than the 1/4" I was used to. Perhaps there is some advantage to XLR? Can someone through some light on this?

[JoeToGo]

This Friday...

The gig is a George Harrison tribute show, so it'll mostly be AP, EP and organ, but there will be a few opportunities for some swirling stereo psychedelic craziness too.

Man, I wish I could go see that show! If anyone happens to video it, please post the link!

 

I'm hoping jazzooo's show gets video'd, sounds like a hot show!

[hardware]

Brotha'men, I blow a pair of SE-1Xs through the SSv3 and they have little boom compared to romplet/pcm/sampled low end instruments.

They have woofer popping snap and IMHO I always liked 10s and 12s for keys simply because of the punch.

 

Think of the SSv3 as a tri amped Bose Home stereo x 25.

 

[rickp]

This Friday I'll be using the SS at my biggest venue with it so far, Tipitina's. I'll have two boards, the SV1 and the Sk1. Thing is, the sound guys at Tip's are pretty particular about keyboardists giving them separate outputs for each board rather than submixing them.

 

Solution: Run the Sk1 out to two DIs for FOH. Take the outputs from those DIs and run them into the SV1's audio inputs. Run the SV1's 1/4" outputs (which mix in the input signal) to the SS. Run the SV1's XLR outputs (which don't mix in the input signal) to FOH.

 

The gig is a George Harrison tribute show, so it'll mostly be AP, EP and organ, but there will be a few opportunities for some swirling stereo psychedelic craziness too.

 

wow - way to figure it out! lucky the sv1 has audio inputs - hope I don't run into that situation - neither of my boards have audio inputs...

One easy solution is with a Mackie 802VLZ3 or 4 series mixer (at a cost not much more than some quality stereo D.I.'s); run one board out of the mixer's main XLRs to FOH, engage the 3/4 switch on the other board's channel to cut it from the main output and run that board to FOH via the mixer's 1/4"TRS 3 and 4 outs (which easily convert to XLR with adapter); choose main and 3/4 as signal sources for stereo control room outs to run both boards mixed together back to SS3 from those outs.

 

 

[garnermike]

GoToJoe and Timwat: IMO, you may be over-thinking the sub-woof link amp matter. I have used both the GrooveTubes MarkII and the CPS v.3 with a variety of subwoof-linked amps (Promethian 3115 bass combo, G-K MB112 bass combo, Acoustic BA50 bass combo, and even a Motion Sound KT80, which is just a kb amp with 100 watts and a 12" woofer).

 

I really was not disappointed with any of these options serving as the subwoof linked amp (as means to provide more volume and more low-end grunt). I think that a G-K MB110 would work just as well, and weighing in at only 23 lbs, it would be much easier to schlep.

 

[Theo Verelst]

Brotha'men, ...

Think of the SSv3 as a tri amped Bose Home stereo x 25.

 

Well, I don't dislike the SS, but by that logic you could also call it a miniaturized set of Bose 901s, with or without 350 improvements since 1968, with too much direct sound, too much HTF considerations and that would fail the power burn in test. Stay realistic.

 

T.V.

[HAMEGZ]

So Theo, you dont care for the SS, a pundit, if you will.

 

REALITY, for me, as well as most others in this thread is it sounds wonderful, fills the bill and the venue, and is portable and lightweight.

 

I am staying realistic.

[TomKittel]

Brotha'men, ...

Think of the SSv3 as a tri amped Bose Home stereo x 25.

 

Well, I don't dislike the SS, but by that logic you could also call it a miniaturized set of Bose 901s, with or without 350 improvements since 1968, with too much direct sound, too much HTF considerations and that would fail the power burn in test. Stay realistic.

 

Maybe it escaped me that you guys own a SSV3. If not, why does someone who never used or owned a SSV3 feel a vocation to give a professional opinion on it?

[MathOfInsects]

GoToJoe and Timwat: IMO, you may be over-thinking the sub-woof link amp matter. I have used both the GrooveTubes MarkII and the CPS v.3 with a variety of subwoof-linked amps (Promethian 3115 bass combo, G-K MB112 bass combo, Acoustic BA50 bass combo, and even a Motion Sound KT80, which is just a kb amp with 100 watts and a 12" woofer).

 

I really was not disappointed with any of these options serving as the subwoof linked amp (as means to provide more volume and more low-end grunt). I think that a G-K MB110 would work just as well, and weighing in at only 23 lbs, it would be much easier to schlep.

 

Way back in the aught-10s of this thread, the pitch was, "any cheap sub, a flea market find will do." I still think that's about right. Just something to round out the sometimes mid-rangey throw of the SS3. Not much volume is needed down there either, both for physics-of-sound reasons and because I've found that there can be something of a sonic "pocket" as the signal switches solely to SS3.

 

I use a KCW-1. Yes, it's from the dreaded KC line, but as a sub, it's more than sufficient. It's light and fairly small, not much bigger in footprint than the SS3. They make a nice little stack together. (Plus it puts the SSW at the perfect height IMO.)

 

 

[HAMEGZ]

Brotha'men, ...

Think of the SSv3 as a tri amped Bose Home stereo x 25.

 

Well, I don't dislike the SS, but by that logic you could also call it a miniaturized set of Bose 901s, with or without 350 improvements since 1968, with too much direct sound, too much HTF considerations and that would fail the power burn in test. Stay realistic.

 

Maybe it escaped me that you guys own a SSV3. If not, why does someone who never used or owned a SSV3 feel a vocation to give a professional opinion on it?

 

 

Tom, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one

[timwat]

I ended up ordering a GK MB 112 from Sweetwater, should be delivered next week. 28lbs., 200w.

 

Interestingly the last few electric gigs I've used the SS on, running Kronos straight into the amp (no mixer), I struggled to get sufficient volume without 1) the bottom end farting, or 2) overdriving the SS (turning the Kronos too loud).

 

Part of the problem I'm sure is that each of those gigs had me kicking synth bass on funk numbers.

 

On the other hand, I used the SS on a 2.5 hour solo piano gig this week. If you're going to pay me hundreds of dollars to practice on the CP4 while you drink wine, yes, thank you. The SS is so great for this kind of gig it's ridonkulous.

 

Only small problem is I broke my SKB rolling mixer case (brand spanking new) on the first usage. Tried to gently pick it up by the top handle to navigate a short flight of stairs and POP! One of the rivets holding the handle in place popped out of the internal backing. It has to go back to Sweetwater and they're shipping me a replacement.

 

Will report once my little GK arrives.

 

In the mean time, it strikes me on this forum there are those of us who gig heavily, and those of us who don't. It's never been an entry requirement for this forum, and that's the way it should always be. But it's really difficult to have intelligent input on anything i don't have first-hand experience with - gear, software, bacon, gig experience, relationships, beer, donuts, bacon, single malt scotch, bacon - and so I try to refrain from posting to a thread I really know nothing about. But I don't always succeed in NOT posting. I'm in a 12 step and taking shots for that. So I try to cut others some slack when the urge to post is overwhelming for them.

[Joe Muscara]

Well, I don't dislike the SS, but by that logic you could also call it a miniaturized set of Bose 901s, with or without 350 improvements since 1968, with too much direct sound, too much HTF considerations and that would fail the power burn in test. Stay realistic.

 

Maybe it escaped me that you guys own a SSV3. If not, why does someone who never used or owned a SSV3 feel a vocation to give a professional opinion on it?

 

 

Tom, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one

And they're all over the internet!

[MathOfInsects]

I use the SKB case too. When it arrived, it definitely seemed flimsier than I expected--especially the retractable handle, which was sold as some kind of nuclear-grade space-age polymer reverse-engineered from a yet-to-be-discovered mineral mined by a time-traveling magician. It's not. If it could talk, it would sound like that guy in High Anxiety: "I got it....I got it...I got it....I ain't got it!"

 

It's going to break one day, probably during whichever gig has the longest, most annoying load-in path.

 

 

[B. J. Love]

It's going to break one day, probably during whichever gig has the longest, most annoying load-in path.

 

Yup. I do love the side handles, though...

[MathOfInsects]

Well, I don't dislike the SS, but by that logic you could also call it a miniaturized set of Bose 901s, with or without 350 improvements since 1968, with too much direct sound, too much HTF considerations and that would fail the power burn in test. Stay realistic.

 

Maybe it escaped me that you guys own a SSV3. If not, why does someone who never used or owned a SSV3 feel a vocation to give a professional opinion on it?

 

 

Tom, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one

And they're all over the internet!

 

...claiming to be bigger than they are.

[theGman]

Yeah, the pull out handle on that case does kind of bite, but I'm waiting to make a Version 2 case for it with baffles attached. I imagine Aspen or equal has one in the works right now. ???

[Daddyg3042]

I ended up ordering a GK MB 112 from Sweetwater, should be delivered next week. 28lbs., 200w.

 

Interestingly the last few electric gigs I've used the SS on, running Kronos straight into the amp (no mixer), I struggled to get sufficient volume without 1) the bottom end farting, or 2) overdriving the SS (turning the Kronos too loud).

 

Part of the problem I'm sure is that each of those gigs had me kicking synth bass on funk numbers.

 

On the other hand, I used the SS on a 2.5 hour solo piano gig this week. If you're going to pay me hundreds of dollars to practice on the CP4 while you drink wine, yes, thank you. The SS is so great for this kind of gig it's ridonkulous.

 

Only small problem is I broke my SKB rolling mixer case (brand spanking new) on the first usage. Tried to gently pick it up by the top handle to navigate a short flight of stairs and POP! One of the rivets holding the handle in place popped out of the internal backing. It has to go back to Sweetwater and they're shipping me a replacement.

 

Will report once my little GK arrives.

 

In the mean time, it strikes me on this forum there are those of us who gig heavily, and those of us who don't. It's never been an entry requirement for this forum, and that's the way it should always be. But it's really difficult to have intelligent input on anything i don't have first-hand experience with - gear, software, bacon, gig experience, relationships, beer, donuts, bacon, single malt scotch, bacon - and so I try to refrain from posting to a thread I really know nothing about. But I don't always succeed in NOT posting. I'm in a 12 step and taking shots for that. So I try to cut others some slack when the urge to post is overwhelming for them.

I continue to have some of the same experiences as you, Tim, i.e. bottom end farting, and mids breaking up, both with and without a mixer. I've reported some of these experiences here, to less then rave reviews. It's happened with relatively modest volume and with things cranked. I've tried reducing the board's volume when going direct to the amp, and vice versa. With a mixer, I've tried maxing channel volume, reducing main's volume, and increasing SS volume (never more the 3/4). I still haven't figured out exactly what configuration works best, because I use 3 or four different setups based on the gig. In some circumstances (70% of the time), I don't hear any issues with the SS, and it sounds sweet, but it definitely has me scratching my head sometimes.

 

My wife came to the last gig (which she rarely does), it was a duo w a guitarist, with very moderate volume, and told me, "you know, that amp does sound good". When I asked her what exactly sounded good, she said "it just seems to sound good wherever you go". That was a reassuring comment.

 

I do like the SS a lot, as do many who hear it. Just have to figure out the best configuration when using it in multiple set ups.

 

[Ledbetter]

I also have had trouble getting clean volume, especially without a mixer. The Nord Electro 4, at full volume, straight into the SS3 did not yield enough clean volume playing B3 sounds with drums, bass and guitar in a small studio two nights ago. The guitar and bass amps were smallish, not groundshakers. The SS3 broke up with volume past 12 o'clock. I might have done better if I had raised the SS3 off the ground instead of just tilting it back. The material was Meters, Booker T, Herbie H. and similar. The other musicians kept asking me to turn up.

 

I probably will only use the SS3 with a mixer when playing with other amplified instruments.

 

[timwat]

Mike and Daddyg:

 

This is EXACTLY my problematic experience to date. Any kind of electrified funky music and the SS starts farting and breaking up when I try to get volume to an appropriate level.

 

I adore the non-beamy, natural and acoustic projection of the amp, especially wearing my acoustic jazz hat. But competing with enthusiastic bass, drums and guitar in a rock or funk setting - it seems to run out of gas.

 

I realize it may sound different to the audience, etc. - but using it as an on-stage monitor, I have to be able to hear it well, and my bandmates have to be able to hear me well.

 

I'm VERY hopeful the bass amp that's in transit will handily solve this challenge. Can't wait for its arrival, as I've got upcoming gigs which will test this new pairing soon as it gets unboxed.

[cphollis]

Well, for what it's worth, I did run into a few situations where I wasn't happy when pushing a solo SSv3 too hard in a loud-ish electric band setting. Farting and all that.

 

One component of my problem was that I was still calibrating volume thinking I was playing through a traditional setup, not realizing that the SSv3 projects quite differently.

 

You think you're not being heard clearly -- but you are! I still get head-faked occasionally, even though I've played over a dozen gigs with the SSv3. Old habits are very hard to break.

 

Anyhow, the BD1200-D did the trick for me. I can now play obnoxiously loud (and clearly) if the situation calls for it. Or my brain is playing tricks with me.

 

Example at an outdoor beach bar gig last weekend, full electric band, vocals only through PA, I was having a good time and turning up a bit, encouraged by the band leader. Not really all that loud, though. At the break, two people came up and said I was drowning out both guitars. Oooops. Time to turn down.

 

Ain't in the same league as my top-end gear, but good enough for 90% of what I do. But I do believe it requires a completely different approach to sound calibration.

[Jetrocker]

One more input on the sub. It made a world of difference for me when I put the B1200 underneath it. Just rounds out everything and provides an ever richer tone, if that's possible. I do use the SSV3 alone in small venue situations, but in a mid sized bar with a reasonably loud rock band, I think it's a real plus.

 

And just to chime in on the "gig-report" train...yes, this amp is simply killer. It adds a sparkle and depth to my patches (especially B3) that is brand new to my ears. The band noticed it too the first night I used it. Brilliant, Aspen. Take another bow. And thank you. -Mark

[Aspen]

Hi All, I have been listening here on a daily basis, sometimes twice a day and I really enjoy the comradety and sharing of experiences.

 

I just want to restate, that from the beginning I have said the SS v.3 was designed as a stand alone KB solution for smaller and medium sized venues. But for larger/louder gigs I have always recommend a sub...especially if there is a loud drummer in the mix, and/or a guitarist wih a loud Marshall or Boogie. Frankly I am continually srprized to hear it has cut gigs like that w/o a sub, but now I see a few who are reporting that the SS is only human and has "limits", I am not surprized about that.

 

The reality here is our main Front speaker is an 8", the Side is a single 6.5"...and these are in a very compact box that is barely one cubic foot.

 

That said, by itself it IS amazingly loud "for it's size and power", but expecting it to competing with "clean" tone against a guitar player with a half dozen distortion pedals thru 100 Marshall or Boogie watt TUBE amps (remember, a tube "watt" is 3x louder than a SS "watt") driving multiple 12" speakers and bass amps with 500+ watts and 4-5x the speaker area that move a LOT of air...well frankly spoken, yes...it will fall short.

 

You can't dismiss the pure physics involved here, and while we "cheat" physics thru computer modeling and clever audio acoustic tricks...it was never the design goal to be a Marshall stack killer...nor have I claimed it would. I have tried to be honest, and apologize if the SS has raised expectations beyond it's ability to deliver. Frankly spoken, some of your gig reports have really surprised me; I stand amazed at just how much it CAN do. But realize please...every amp has it's limits.

 

However, as I have said, adding a small bass amp or sub might allow it to play with the "big kids". I started out using cheap $50 swap meet 100 watt subs, you can see these in some of the early videos. The work fine, but after listening to the reports here I bought a B1200 for $299 at SW, mostly because it's "pass thru" stereo outputs roll off the LF signal to the SS @ 100HZ, very cool as that allows the SS to use all it's power where it counts, above 100 Hz where it really shines.

 

That addition of a sub will even the playing field (pun intended). This is a fact has certainly has been supported by many users here who "when the occasion requires" pull out that sub, or small bass amp, and get the job done. But also I see these same players often leave the sub home, for those smaller gigs.

 

One more piece of advice about that "Farting" sound you may be hearing when really cranking the SS (and when you are not using a sub). I have noticed there is a "quirk" to the design of our rear panel that shows up when a sub is not being used, and only at higher "peak" playing levels. Check the rear panel and listen to the 1/4" sub output jack...it may cause and/or contribute to that "farting" distortion sound you are hearing. Turns out that when our custom made 8" woofer with it's 2" VC is really pumping air, it forces air thru that little Sub jack hole. At higher levels it is quite noticeable. It sounds like a small "fart" (sorry for the word choice here, but actually it is passing air thru it's rear hole).

 

Solution; just plug an ordinary 1/4" jack in there and seal up the hole. I guess you could also use some gaffer tape, although it may not looks as nice. Of course you will not hear it either when you use a sub cable.

 

Not much I can do to design around that, or fix it. Most the professional 1/4" jacks are steel and so not "sealed", and I do not like plastic jacks. So if this is a problem, just carry a spare 1/4 plug...and...well...now I have told you where to stick it.

[lophiomys]

YMMD

[cphollis]

Ok, so it WAS the SSv3 that was farting. Not me. At least, not then.

[MathOfInsects]

Cue Tom Waits.

[HammondDave]

Aspen. That may have been the funniest post I have ever read. That small hole in the rear can make the most amazing sounds.

[DavTomSun]

I now have my Nord Stage 2 running into the Behringer B1200D and from that into the Spacestation and I just want to tell you that I have never been more pleased with my sound. I will be using this rig and a gig tomorrow night, but I can already tell it is going to be just fine.

 

Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread, I never would have arrived at this solution on my own.

[cphollis]

OK, I am *this close* to selling off all my other amplification toys. Just sayin'