Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[drawback]

Ah! AC Delco knobs! Guaranteed to wear out at 60,000 turns.

 

 

[Raymb1]

Anyone know what size AC Delco knob to buy? So many to choose from!

[Aspen]

Another grill paint update:

 

As part of my ceramic tile business, I met a customer at Home Depot, where he bought granite counters and needed some input.

Well, guess what? The paint dept. is right next to the tile department, so I went for it and bought the same 2 cans/colors Timwat used.

 

After prepping and applying the black, it looked really neat. However, I experimented and, instead of a fog of gold, I put a few coats of gold, solid, over the black. I figured if I didn't like it I could start over.

 

For me, I am keeping it with the gold on top at least for now. Whereas the lid of the can is a bright shiny gold, by just using a few coats over the black it looks like a rich antique gold, healthy, but not at all shiny bright.

 

It's kinda like a mid tone between the original space heater aluminum color and black. Gives it a rich look.

 

FWIW,

 

Paul

 

Once again, you guys have sparked my interest here....time to chime!

 

I have been following the cosmetic redesign adventures of a few pioneering artists here with great interest. Of course after we product designers are finished with the important stuff...like sound...our attention turns to the "look", which is also important.

 

Being a student of the Leo Fender school of industrial design, I took the classic approach of a Black Tolex skin contrasted by a Silver grill, albeit a more rugged grill design using steel to protect our very special drivers. But for sure this will not please everyone (what ever does?), however the guys over on the Fractal site who said the SS3 looked like a heater kinda provoked me...but then, what's WRONG with looking like a heater?

 

Frankly, I admire all of you who have taken the "look" one step beyond to personalize your amp. Customs paint jobs were also a Leo Fender design approach so...so why not? Be assured, I am not offended at all, I am flattered you feel the product warrants a "custom paint job", after all my '37 Ford pick up truck sports a Honda Red Metallic paint job...and I don't think Henry would mind.

 

So building on your ideas, I wish to offer a new "face lift" idea that has not been mentioned here.

 

Why not try covering our steel grill with a thin fabric, like Black nylon grill cloth? This could be easily stretched over the grill and held on the inside with some spray adhesive. I use 3M 77 all the time for projects like this. Anyway it's just to hold it there until you screw it back on.

 

Go to any fabric shop, you will see 100s of acoustically transparent fabrics in many colors and styles there (the test is if you see light thru it you will hear sound thru it too). Most of these fabrics sell for $3-5 per yard (you only need one yard, and at my local swap meet it's more like $1-2 per yard).

 

Some advantages:

 

1) It's cheap and easy, I am told we musicians are attracted to relatinships like that.

 

2) The cloth offers an extra layer of protection for our expensive speakers against beer and nacho sauce.

 

3) These cloths can be changed at your whim. Have several to match your band's uniforms!

 

4) You v]can paint pictures on fabric, like your band's name, or your name! Paint several panels for all the bands you play with and change them like bass drum heads!

 

5) It's "reversible", should you ever (God forbid) trade your SS3 in on a newer model and so want to have it looking "stock", and/or when (if) you sober up and change your mind on fashion fushia paisley and want to remove it (unlike that tattoo of your first girlfriend's name).

 

One can get VERY creative on a simple Black silk canvas using an air brush and some florescent paints! (ooops, just had another Haight-Ashbury flashback...no more coffee for me this morning!)

 

Heck, I may try a a few of these myself if I ever get any free time again...but you guys are really keeping me jumping!

[HammondDave]

I thought that "Nacho Sauce" was the secret ingredient for the SS3...

[MathOfInsects]

Fushia Paisley was my first girlfriend's name.

[Tombsalley]

So, I had a chance to use on a first gig. Small winery inside.

I set the SS on top of an EV ZXA1 sub. From a mackie DL1608.

The sub was out an aux. and the mains to the SS and set an eq filter 24db oct.

At 100hz . The results were great in terms of being able to hear and spread

The sound through the room. I use midi backing tracks for keys,drums,bass.

My Kemper/Parker sounded good as well as vocals.

i had a fill in Player on guitar and he also has a Kemper.

He wasn't as satisfied with his sound. He uses alot of effects on his guitar.(wet)

I had the width around 12/ up 2 oclock where I found it worked well.

I don't drown my guitar in fx. I like the tone to cut through the mix.

So,no problem for me.

The only thing I think needs some work is the eq. The SS mids sound

A little forward and a bit harsh to my ears. But, I think it's promising.

Just a question unknown: On using two units, What happens if you were to send out of a mixer To one SS left in and send the right out to another SS on it's right input?

I wonder how that would work? Either stacked or spread on each side? For small rooms one is fine but, larger gigs

I think I need reenforcement. It would be nice to expand using the SS vs

Traditional cabs.

Thanks!

[Tombsalley]

SinceI I put this SS and Ev sub in a corner. It was pretty much hidden from view

Especially vs speaker stands hiding our faces. So, this was a nice change

In a small space.a really nice look. It felt more like were just playing in an open space instead of staring at the side of speaker cabinets and our feet partitioned

By monitors!

[endlessummerkeys]

another gig last night went well Large area in a noisy Casino but the SS sounded great... I will have to turn down the Sub though as some of my Korg samples are a little bassie (sp) but that is an easy fix. Same setup tonight and I will try with a little less sub.

 

[Manhunter]

Space Station has landed!

Took the plunge and ordered one direct from Aspen to the UK.

Have a gig tomorrow, Sunday lunchtime, with a big band and was hoping to try out the Space Station there.

 

Received a letter this morning (Saturday) from Parcelforce (Royal Mail parcel delivery wing) requesting vat payment - earliest delivery is Monday; dam!

 

Have requested Wednesday delivery so I'll be in to receive it.

Will have to wait for next gig to try out.

 

Sure it will make my old P120 sound better than the Roland KC500 that I've been using for the last 10 years!!

 

Dave

 

[garnermike]

Manhunter: Given the amp you've been using, I think you're just gonna be blown away when you harness your keys to the SSv.3. Just sayin'........

[JonWilson]

Hi All,

 

Got my latest issue of KBM and read the review. Then went to the website. Then here. Am blown away about this. Surprised I've never heard about this before. Just set up an account on here. I've seen a lot of responses/reviews from people who play in quieter rooms (churches), or 100 guests or so. I haven't read through every single page, so forgive me if this has already been covered....

 

Background: I play in a live karaoke band. We are pretty loud (five piece plus as many as 4+ singers on stage depending on the song). The rooms we play in range from dive bars to larger sports bars (Buffalo Wild Wings type of places). Sometimes we play for 50 people. Sometimes 200+.

 

My rig consists of 2-3 keyboards (Korg SV-1, and Korg Kross and sometimes I also bring my Dave Smith Mopho). I also play a keytar (now switching from AX-Synth to Korg's new one). I run everything through a mixer and send to a Roland KC-550. I was using the KC-350 but it just couldn't keep up. The sound guy either runs FOH from my mixer or the line outs on my KC-550. The amp is basically my stage monitor.. although not in stereo.

 

Thinking about switching to this thing. It seems like it is pretty amazing.

 

But based on above do you experts here think that this thing would do the job in the larger rooms I play in? These are loud bar kind of shows. Would I be able to eliminate the need for a FOH signal? (thinking about nixing the mixer idea and running all of my stereo outs into the audio inputs of each keyboard). If I am able to eliminate the need for FOH would I need a subwoofer? If so, which would you recommend?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Dave Bryce]

Got my latest issue of KBM and read the review.

Hi, Jon -

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

I wrote the review. If you have any questions about it, please do let me know.

 

dB

[timwat]

Hey, JonWilson -

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Executive Summary: No amp is perfect. But even with its inherent shortcomings, I'd still recommend the SS to you in a heartbeat.

Detail: Assuming for your larger karaoke gigs you're playing a fair amount of LH stuff (in other words, lower MR and/or synth bass) - I'm presuming that from the genre(s) and your rig - I would suggest:

 

1) The amp will really do some amazing things for you vs. your KC-550, but

2) I'd recommend you at least budget for a bass combo amp or subwoofer for LF supplement

 

Pros:

1) Your overall sound will be warmer, woodier yet more accurate and 'flat' than your KC-550 (which IMHO is the best of the KC series, which I'm not a fan of). Your acoustic piano patches will be more enjoyable to play, and your Rhodes patches will "bell" truer across the entire keyboard range.

 

2) You'll sound "bigger" because of the "stereo / 3-D" projection thing so many of us talk about in this thread. Your sound won't be "beamy", it will more come from "everywhere".

 

3) You'll project differently in larger rooms. This is a good thing, but will take some getting used to. Initially, you'll feel like you're not loud enough (compared to the old days when your monitor was pointed at your head). But you will be louder to the audience than you think.

 

Cons:

For contemporary music, I've found it runs out of LF support at moderate volumes. Just a reality of the physics of the thing.

 

Solution: In conjunction with the SS, I use a small GK bass combo amp, as you've probably seen in the pic I posted. Others use a Behringer powered subwoofer. My solution is lighter and smaller, and requires less cabling. The Behringer has a built-in crossover that allows segregating only higher freqs to the SS, and has far more rated wattage.

 

On an unrelated note, let me know how that Korg keytar works for you, please. Feel free to PM me. I'm also an AX-Synth user, but have been eyeing that Korg since it was announced.

[Jazzmammal]

Absolutely Jon and welcome to this forum. Stick around it sounds like you can contribute to other subjects besides this thread.

 

To answer your question it's yes. Because I live about 30 miles from Aspen's studio I was one of the first to get one of these units last October. I've done a bunch of gigs with it including a sports bar like you described. It's got the usual 25 big screens all over the walls and the band has to wait until the Lakers, Dodgers, Kings, Angels, UCLA and whomever else finish playing before we start. The SS sounds great in there to the point I've had to turn it down. And this is without a sub. I play about 50% organ and the rest the usual AP's and EP's. This is with a 4 piece with a vocalist and 1 or 2 horn players sitting in. It's not rock concert loud but it's loud enough that I think of using my earplugs on occasion. For larger rooms lots of guys here use a sub and they all say it works out well.

 

The SS is very deceptive, all I can say is for it's size it rocks. Seriously you should check out who some of these guys are in this thread. There's some pro's here who've used virtually anything and everything you've ever heard of for stage amplification and still they're raving about this unit. To me this is the first serious, major improvement in a stage amp in years. I've got two JBL's, three EV's, two small Behringers and two Barbetta's. Good stuff and I'm going to sell it all except for my larger Barbetta. That will be my spare now.

 

Bob

[mak1457]

Some questions about breaking in the SS3. I've had mine for about three months now and it usually either gets played in my 11x12 bedroom or a 30x40 room where I've been given strict instructions not to turn it up loud. So I'm wondering if I've even come close to breaking in my SS3 and if not, is it too late? Am I destined for sub-par performance?

 

And perhaps not totally unrelated, when I play in my bedroom (11x12) I love my board and the SS3. But when I take it out, I don't like the sound nearly as much.For example, the C/V sounds worse and I have problems deciphering what notes I'm actually playing. Why? Is it the amp? is it me? This is really starting to annoy me. I want to love playing so much I don't want to stop but I can't seem to get to that point.

[KingstonCrim]

Space Station has landed!

...Sure it will make my old P120 sound better than the Roland KC500 that I've been using for the last 10 years!!

 

Dave, I too used my old P-120 on the last gig and it's by far the best that piano has sounded when pushed through the SS. I believe you will be pleased with the change. We played last weekend in a smallish club but with two guitarists the volume wants to creep up. SS had no trouble cutting through the mix, and we were just using stage volume for instruments, with only vocals running through the house PA. The SS sounded fat and sassy and makes playing keyboards fun all over again! The other guys in the band like showing off this little wonder amp. The drummer had some muso friends there and I got the same "Is that a mini-leslie?" from one of them. Had to try and explain the physics in a minute or less while we were setting up. As nice as the SS makes the keys sound good alone on its own, to me the best result is in a mix with other players that it really shines the most.

[Tombsalley]

Mak,

 

The problem and the struggle is more than likely the room.

You'll have to adjust differently in different spaces. No different than a

Trad. P.A. Everytime I play out in a different space it varies some what.

Sometimes it's great and sometimes I can't figure it out . You have to

Also figure the people that come and go and there crowd noise that's

Added. This won't be the case in your bedroom. My partner had this issue

When he played his Kemper amp through the SS.

Hang in there.

[rickzjamm]

DB, what's your approach to running the SS FOH?The soundman (we call him sandman, sometimes sleeps at the board) want's to mike the SS but I'm thinking running direct.

[Dave Bryce]

DB, what's your approach to running the SS FOH?The soundman (we call him sandman, sometimes sleeps at the board) want's to mike the SS but I'm thinking running direct.

 

Direct is the only way, IMO - I'm thinking you probably don't want him miking the front and side and then splitting that L/R....

 

My M06 has XLR outs - I just use those. I've actually tried just running a touch of one side to the PA to see if I could slightly increase what the SS is doing, and have gotten some very fun results.

 

dB

[JonWilson]

Thanks to those of you who responded to the newbie here. Looks like I am in the company of some awesome people....

 

I have to get this and am going to get this. I am very excited. Can't wait.

 

 

 

 

[endlessummerkeys]

My opinion is that if you mike the SS using 2 mikes (one for the front driver and one for the side driver) then you will end up with simply a Right and a Left channel which in turn can cancel each other out in the room. The advantage of the SS is that you have a Right + Left from one speaker, say the front driver, and a Right - Left say from the side driver. The only way to maintain this type of waveform technology is to always utilize the circuitry that is in the SS. Therefore.... only being to just let the SS do its thing. IF I remember right the pass through sends on the back of the SS can be used for the FOH, however I do not believe that the signals will be as R+L and R-L... Aspen is this correct? Please correct me if I am not right on this but I believe I remember reading about this a few thousand pages back!

[cphollis]

Endlessummerkeys -- I don't think so ...

 

Part of what makes the SSv3 do its thing is the precise positioning of the front and side driver. Miking them separately and trying to reproduce through, say, a PA -- I think you'd either not get the desired effect, or maybe even ruin it from the SSv3. The phase and direction of the signals is part of the secret sauce.

 

I got into a long discussion with Aspen about this many moons ago.

 

Here's what I remember it boiled down to -- you can amplify the bass separately, you can amplify the mono mix from the back of the unit separately, you can stack two on top of each other precisely, you can run completely different instrument mixes through two of them, etc. -- but that's about it AFAIK.

 

For larger shows, I just use the mono mix for FOH. Sounds great. Plenty of stereo imaging on stage and for the audience up front. Besides, do any sound guys *really* mix the keys in stereo? (despite what they might tell you)

 

-- Chuck

 

-- Chuck

[endlessummerkeys]

thanks CP for the clarification

[garnermike]

Question for Aspen and/or others re: linking to a subwoofer amp from the SS.3's sub output vs. linking to a subwoofer amp directly from a keyboard....

I ask because while my Hammond SK1 has left and right (stereo) outputs, it also has a stereo headphone output which does not disconnect or interfere with the signals coming out of those L & R outputs. So it is possible to run the L & R outputs thru the SSv.3 while running a cable directly from the kb's phone output to a sub/bass amp (maybe just using a $2 adapter to sum the stereo signal from SK1 down to a TS mono signal before plugging into the sub/bass amp).

 

Would there be any advantage or disadvantage to running things set up this way?

[endlessummerkeys]

I actually run the B1200 sub and it is nice because it does not send any signals to my SS that are below 100hz, making the SS handle only the higher frequencies and therefore not having to expend its energy reproducing the lower frequencies. That leaves a whole lot of power for 100hz and above and it sounds fantastic!!!!

[Ledbetter]

IF I remember right the pass through sends on the back of the SS can be used for the FOH, however I do not believe that the signals will be as R+L and R-L... Aspen is this correct? Please correct me if I am not right on this but I believe I remember reading about this a few thousand pages back!

 

I agree. I believe the sub out is NOT a full content mono mix of the content provided to the SS3. I asked Aspen about this and his answer above was that it is the same content as the front speaker. In my mind, this would not provide an acceptable FOH signal, since it lacks all content not common to both L and R.

[Raymb1]

This is from Aspen's web site:

 

http://centerpointstereo.com/faq.php

[Ledbetter]

 

Aspen, am I correct in assuming that the sub out is the exact same signal as is passing throught the 8" mid speaker? Thanks.

 

You are correct, it is L+R, or all he mono content which is equal in both channels of the stereo source . . . .

[Tombsalley]

Sorry to change subject,but I used the SS this afternoon and the experience from

My first Was much more possitave than the gig I had on Friday.

My original partner for the duo was back and he was pretty happy

About the sound and his words were " I kinda like the down size

Set up"I had others say they could hear it outside as well and it didn't sound muffled there it was as clear as inside.

 

[Aspen]

[i believe the sub out is NOT a full content mono mix of the content provided to the SS3. I asked Aspen about this and his answer above was that it is the same content as the front speaker. In my mind, this would not provide an acceptable FOH signal, since it lacks all content not common to both L and R.

 

Chiming in gang, seems there are still some misunderstandings here, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to read our CPS novel from the beginning, so I will try to defuse this debate by "summing" it up another way (sorry, couldn't resist).

 

The CPS circuit is basically a simple "SUM" and "DIFFERENCE" network. The SUM is our Front signal and the DIFFERENCE is our side signal.

 

So, SUMMING the L&R signals to mono at the SS3, which is how we derive the Front signal, or SUMMING the L&R signals to mono at the FOH mixer produces EXACTLY the same result. And there is NO "missing" content....everything IS there! But of course you don't hear a "DIFFERENCE" anymore as your FOH mixer distributes that Mono signal to multiple PA speakers placed at different locations around the room (which is a good thing BTW).

 

This is exacly what your FOH mixer has been doing with your FOH stereo sends for decades (unless the FOH mixer runs you in discrete stereo, which is doubtful...because that creates unequal dispersion issues and/or other adverse results...but that can be a discussion for another day).

 

The CPS "magic" is in how we reproduce the Side signal, which is derived by subtracting L from R to give us what is unique, or also described as the "DIFFERENCE" between the L&R signals....then playing this signal back thru a second amp and speaker that is positioned our of phase with relation to the Front speaker, and also "time aligning" these two speakers so this all comes from one "center" point...hence; Center Point Stereo.

 

So, the short answer is "YES" everything there in the SS3 sub (L+R, or MONO) output.

 

We also left our sub output full range "SPECIFICALLY" so you could use it as a FOH send. This was a design decision because 1) most subs have an active low pass filer, and 2) there are other ways to drive a sub, such as that headphone output mentioned above here by our thread "starter" Garner Mike (for the 1st time!) or also from your mixer.

 

We didn't think we lost anything by not filtering our sub output because most subs already have a selectable LOW PASS filter (which IMHO should be set b/w 100-125Hz), and a phase reverse switch which BTW should always be set at "0" (not 180) so as to be in phase with the Front speaker.