Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Dave Osoff]

I use the Gator amp stand with SS also - I don't place the amp sideways on it though - I put it straight on with the lower bar in the back, so the amp controls don't get in the way. Very good, solid amp stand. I also got the Ampwedge and have used that at a few gigs to angle the speaker up. I haven't posted any big reviews of the S.S. V3 here yet - just been busy - but in a nutshell, all rave reviews from bandmates, audience, the wife... Oh yeh, and I love it too - the best my rig has sounded in years!

[Doerfler]

I use the Gator amp stand with SS also - I put it straight on with the lower bar in the back, so the amp controls don't get in the way.

 

Hey Dave - could you please sometime in the next 2 or 3 weeks post a pic of that setup? I'm trying to picture it in my head but alas it's not working. Also I'm wondering how putting the SS3 on a stand improves the sound. I don't have delivery of mine until early May so I can't answer my own questions at this point. TIA

[Aspen]

FWIW, my skb case has loosened up a bit with repeated use. It used to take five or six mumbled "m*therf*cker!!"s to get it out of the case, now it only takes two.

Maestro Alan (Hollywood Bowl organist, also occasionally LA Phil) sold me his SKB case today, and we sealed the deal over Bear Pit BBQ (best in town, hickory smoked!)

 

That SKB is a tight fit, but he had a great idea of using a nylon strap wrapped around the center of the SS3 so it acts like belt you can grab on to and pull it out...pretty slick, and I like this case. Alan needed a more durable case so he's got a Pelican case he's using for his cartage gigs, and a SS2 slip cover for the other gigs.

[Aspen]

Okay, here's something I was thinking about that I don't think has been covered in this thread yet:

 

For live use in a band, what about bleed-through into other stage mics? One advantage of using a PA speaker is the directional nature of the sound which prevents the stage volume from bleeding into vocal, drum, etc. microphones when it is placed correctly. With the SS and it's "enveloping" nature of its sound distribution pattern, wouldn't that cause some issues with other microphones picking up the keyboardists stage volume? I know my band has fought with these issues for a long time now, especially with drum mics picking up bass amp and the vocal mics picking up the guitar amp.

 

Yes, the CPS 300 degree dispersion is a double edge sword...it is everywhere but it is not an aggressive directional signal that overpowers like a very loud bass amp or Marshall can. Also, most stage mics are dynamic and so not very "sensitive", so the vocalist is usually swallowing the mic anyway and the FOH Mixer sets levels accordingly.

 

In general, PA cabs, stage monitors, and most guitar amps are DIRECTIVE, I liken them to using "flashlights"...hot on axis and not so much off axis. That analogy in mind, think of CPS as a soft ceiling light bulb that gently fills the room with an equal Omni directional light that doesn't blind you like a flashlight can. CPS "plays well with others" on stage, a refreshing change and something you will like in practice.

 

Of course placement again is critical, so the best spot is not directly behind an open mic...obviously.

[Aspen]

Just a question unknown: On using two units, What happens if you were to send out of a mixer To one SS left in and send the right out to another SS on it's right input?

I wonder how that would work?

 

That would be sort of a waste of the SS3.

 

Agreed, that idea would be a total waste of 2 CPS systems.

 

So in that configuration you suggest, here's what you'd have; a conventional Left and Right stereo speaker system....booooring!

 

Guys, CPS is a "sum and difference" decoding circuit...The Front gets the "sum", and the Side gets the "difference". So if you play a mono patch into our SS3 you will hear NO side speaker because there is NO "difference" b/w these signals.

 

Same thing if you only plug in a Left signal to one SS3, and Right signal to the other...each SS3 will only output from the Front speaker, no side. So, you'd have a conventional stereo system...no fun in that, as we all know!

[Aspen]

Hey guys, a shout out to all our German KC family, or those Euro KBers traveling to this week's annual Musik Messe in Frankfurt Germany. This is the biggest International music trade show in the world, kinda like a NAMM but with way better beer and brats!

 

FYI, by "special Request", we have just agreed to supply a SS3 for a MESSE demo for the New Crumar company, from Italy. Their players have been raving about the SS3 w/ Crumar KBs so they contacted us and we set this up. They have some great Leslie sims (or so I am told). The show starts Wednesday and goes 5 days until Sunday, it is open to public and every serious musician makes the trek to Musik Mecca every year.

 

The SS3 will be crankin' out 3D KBs in Halle 5.1, booth C47 sponsored by EMC who is the German distributor for Crumar, and also Moog, John Bowden, Mellotron and others.

 

Some of you have expressed a desire to hear SS3 live for yourselves, well, here's your chance!

 

BTW, our own KC DB (Dave Bryce) is there with Klipsch speakers and will be checking in for us to be sure those Crumar guys get the SS3 set up right. Maybe he'll file a report before the show's over.

 

Wish I could have gone...I married a Bavarian and just love Germany, plus I have 4 grandkids there who would love to see Opa Aspen. But I am expecting a big load of SS3s in most any time now, and I do not want to keep you guys waiting any longer than necessary.

 

[HammondDave]

Are you kidding me? Go see your grandkids. These guys can wait a week longer...

[Doerfler]

Are you kidding me? Go see your grandkids. These guys can wait a week longer...

 

I am one of the ones waiting and I agree with David completely.

[endlessummerkeys]

family first

[MathOfInsects]

Unless you're a mugger.

 

[Tombsalley]

Fellas,

Part of my dispairity is that I haden't found much in the form of answers

To lead me to purchase a second SS for what I believe I would need

To reenforce my sound on some of my outside jobs that have a lot

Of open space to fill. I Would prefer to not have different systems

For different venues as I am satisfed for the smaller indoor jobs w/SS

Wanting to fill the space with the SS was the proto for the 2 unit system.

So, I am not the most patient man on the universe. And a 2nd purchase

Was pending and I wanted it to be the right plan. As I have an other system

That I would like to replace. But, I am taking an unknown journey here.kinda like this:

I might not forum material I guess even though I Do like humor I wanted

To get things in place and ideas.I was just trying to get real input on some

Questions that maybe I could learn from others experiences with this.

Since I've only had 2 jobs I've used this on. Like to explore every possibuility

So, maybe some questions didn't make sense or were ever too obvious

A negatave on that idea!

So, I'll kep working on this when I get my second unit.

 

Thanks

 

 

[jcazzy]

... So, I'll kep working on this when I get my second unit.

If you need more volume on stage (I believe Aspen covered this topic early on), you probably should have started with a Motion Sound amp. I use the 200w version and play outside at several events and it has plenty of volume and we are a pretty loud classic rock band. I do have my signal routed to FOH and a bit coming back through the monitors so that may make a difference. Some groups may not have that luxury. It also works great in smaller clubs. JMO

[Dave Osoff]

Hey Dave,

Here's pics of the SS with the Gator Frameworks combo amp stand. I've tried it both wedged on the ground and on the stand and I find for my uses it seems to project a little better on the stand and the band hears it much clearer. Your mileage may vary... ;-)

 

http://daveosoff.com/SSV3_pics/SS_pic1.JPG

http://daveosoff.com/SSV3_pics/SS_pic2.JPG

http://daveosoff.com/SSV3_pics/SS_pic3.JPG

http://daveosoff.com/SSV3_pics/SS_pic4.JPG

http://daveosoff.com/SSV3_pics/SS_pic5.JPG

 

[Brettymike]

^^^Very crafty idea , and top notch photography! (are you nervous that x stand might fail? ).

 

Brett

[Tombsalley]

Only..everything is direct. Not a band but,a duo,with backing tracks two guitars and two vocals. So,it is very speaker dependant with no other support

Such as live drums and amps.

[Doerfler]

Hey Dave,

Here's pics of the SS with the Gator Frameworks combo amp stand. I've tried it both wedged on the ground and on the stand and I find for my uses it seems to project a little better on the stand and the band hears it much clearer. Your mileage may vary... ;-)

 

thanks for the quick response. I could not picture that in my head, even sober.

 

So this works for you. Certainly this amp is positioned various ways by different users. Certainly for $39 it's worth trying out. Much appreciated, Dave. BTW, let me know if you want to sell that Invisible Stand.

[Tombsalley]

A launching device into space?

[Dave Osoff]

Ha! you never know - I've been collecting them lately on Craigslist. I have 4 of those Invisible Stands right now. 2 set up at home, 1 in the car for gigs and another I grabbed for a local keyboard player friend who hasn't claimed it yet...

[Aspen]

Only..everything is direct. Not a band but,a duo,with backing tracks two guitars and two vocals. So,it is very speaker dependant with no other support

Such as live drums and amps.

 

Nice to hear about this application Tom, thanks for the post.

 

I have been telling our KB Players that adding a small mixer to their signal path processing has other advantages besides improving signal to noise ratios and avoiding overloading the SS3 front end preamp. For those smaller solo gigs we get occasionally the mixer allows for a "sit in" vocalist or guitarists...and a more interesting evening.

 

Companies like Mackie, Alesis, Berringer all make very small format under $200 mixers with multiple stereo input channels for KB or backing tracks, plus add 4 mic./inst channels for the vocalist, bass player or guitarist who could sit in. And, most of these have built in stereo effects like Hall Reverb (for voice) or stereo chorus (for guitars) that add great dimension to the overall mix.

 

I am aware Tim is considering a 2nd SS3 for a particular reoccurring out door gig that has a very wide 240 degree audience. He's performing in a kinda covered elevated Gazebo stage outdoors at a winery. In this case, having two SS3 positioned on either side of his "stage in the round" makes perfect sense!

 

I am sure it will sound great and not create any phase conflicts at all...actually I can't wait to hear his gig report (wish I could file that one personally, I'd love sitting out doors in a NoCal winery sipping a nice Pinot listening to a nice acoustic duo....ahh, that sounds like really a great gig!

[Doug Robinson]

"Part of my dispairity is that I haden't found much in the form of answers

To lead me to purchase a second SS for what I believe I would need

To reenforce my sound on some of my outside jobs that have a lot

Of open space to fill."

 

 

From what i saw, you got several responses, including from Aspen, all of them saying 'probably not a good idea.' You mean, you only wanted responses telling you what you wanted to hear? I can dig that, I feel that way sometimes too.

 

It's obvious that no one has tried using two very extensively here. If you can afford to be a guinea pig, even after the inventor suggested that it might not give you want you're looking for, then maybe you'll be the one to prove them wrong. But you also might end up with an extra one to sell on ebay

[Doug Robinson]

Gig report from last night--a new band, a New Orleans-flavored r n b quartet (my rig: Hammond SK1 and the SS3).

 

Room: a loud and splashy bar restaurant that fits 150 but last night we had about 75.

 

Guitar and bass through their amps and then into the FOH along with vocals and the kick drum; sound run by an incompetent fool.

 

I was on the opposite side of the stage than I prefer (I was on stage left). Between the drummer and my amp was a mid sized bass amp. Still, the back of the side-ifring speaker was killing the drummer (whose back was against a reflective surface). I laid his cymbal case over the side of the amp and that helped. Same drummer, different room, different side of the stage? same problem but easily solved with the cymbal case or my trifold (didn't have it with me last night though).

 

While he was telling me it was too loud, two musicians came up and said the band sounded great but the keys needed to come up a little!

[endlessummerkeys]

I think 2 would sound really great if they were a ways apart and for side fills!!!

 

[Ledbetter]

While he was telling me it was too loud, two musicians came up and said the band sounded great but the keys needed to come up a little!

 

I wonder whether the SS3's sweet spot is bigger or smaller than a conventional L R stereo pair. My opinion is that a conventional stereo sweet spot takes in at least 75% of a room, going through FOH configuration.

[Raymb1]

That's the reason I lay the SS on it's side on the Gator amp stand. The front speakers face up about 45 degrees. No complaints from the rhythm section.

[Raymb1]

Read Aspen's FAQ. http://centerpointstereo.com/faq.php

The dispersion of the SS is 300 degrees. Way different than a regular PA

[Tombsalley]

FWI,

 

I've experienced some rf noise static and ringinging when I use my

Mackie DL1608 into the SS. The only thing that worked on the

Gig was pluging my mixer into another circut.

But, today I was just testing the unit again with my mixer and

The noise was back. I remembered I had a HumX hanging around that didn't work that well for 60 cycle.

So, I tried this. And low and behold the noise was gone!

At first with the speaker and also with the mixer. So, I will be keeping this on

My mixer where ever I go.

They are not cheap but, it is working.

This is the unit:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HumX

[Danny Linguini]

I wonder whether the SS3's sweet spot is bigger or smaller than a conventional L R stereo pair. My opinion is that a conventional stereo sweet spot takes in at least 75% of a room, going through FOH configuration.

 

It's actually kinda just the opposite. Conventional stereo cabs have a relatively small sweet spot, which would be a long, thin area in the room that's the same distance from both speakers and within their dispersion area. Keep in mind that the dispersion angle of most cabs is 90 degrees (45* to each side), while that of the SS is about 300 degrees. The beauty of the SS is that its 'sweet spot', if you want to call it that, is basically wherever you can hear it at least 6 ft away.

 

I would guess that the guys telling Jazzooo to turn up either were closer to one or more other amps than his SS, or they were in the sweet spot of one or more other amps that just made them louder from where they were standing.

[Doug Robinson]

"I would guess that the guys telling Jazzooo to turn up either were closer to one or more other amps than his SS, or they were in the sweet spot of one or more other amps that just made them louder from where they were standing."

 

 

FWIW, both were musicians who said the keys sounded great but were a little low, and both were on the side of the room with the guitar amp. I turned up a little, angled the SS3 away from the drummer a bit more and all was well. Too loud of band for me, but my rig help up anyway.

[Danny Linguini]

FWIW, both were musicians who said the keys sounded great but were a little low, and both were on the side of the room with the guitar amp. I turned up a little, angled the SS3 away from the drummer a bit more and all was well. Too loud of band for me, but my rig help up anyway.

 

HA!!

 

http://www.q99live.com/images/pages/Whos_the_Man_Revision_no_click.png

[Aspen]

While he was telling me it was too loud, two musicians came up and said the band sounded great but the keys needed to come up a little!

 

I wonder whether the SS3's sweet spot is bigger or smaller than a conventional L R stereo pair. My opinion is that a conventional stereo sweet spot takes in at least 75% of a room, going through FOH configuration.

 

Well Ledbetter, there really is no comparison, CPS sweet spot is massive by an comparison to conventional stereo rigs. And, there is plenty of science on that. The sweet spot of a conventional pair of L&R speakers is going to depend somewhat on those stereo speakers and their dispersion patterns of course (from 45 to 90 degrees dispersion at 1KHz, tops). But the "center" of the sweet spot will usually be 30 degrees on axis, and may spread a short ways to either side.

 

But contrary to what you imagine Ledbetter, most of the room, certainly at least 75% with a typical L&R speaker, will NOT be in the sweet spot, and probably even more than 75% will be in an unequal "sour"spot. It's just audio physics, and pretty logical if you think about it.

 

Let me try an analogy on you; take two flashlights, then spread them in a dark room about 20-30 feet apart and angle them to a center point at 30 degrees....that spot will be well lit, but the rest of the room will be fairly dark by contrast.

 

Now try that with a single light bulb placed most anywhere in the room, of course the light will be gently dispersed softly and equally almost everywhere with no "hot sots".

 

Basically, that's what you are hearing with CPS with it's 300 degree ...and it's very different and MUCH wider, and that's also kinda how CPS works...but in the case of "stereo" audio signals it more like TWO light bulbs; one Red and one Blue, but right on top of each other...so the colors are prevented from "blending" because they are physically "out of phase". So it kinda works like 3D movies, but without needing glasses!

 

That's probably the 5th way I've tried to explain it...not sure I am getting any closer...but when you hear it, it still sounds like magic! So that's my stock answer when asked how it works; it's just magic.