Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[I-missRichardTee]

Todays sax players and horn players are surprisingly loud, esp as an ensemble .

That was thoughtful to stay below them to keep the overall harmony.

I weekly ( weakly ?) play with from 1 to 4 horn players, and I learned first hand how loud 2 or more horns are. They play inside the pitch spectrum where the organ often resides.

[Doug Robinson]

Yes, and these are typically excellent players. The problem on this occasion was a bottle of mescal, a bottle of tequila, and three bottles of red wine someone brought into the green room unbeknownst to me. :-)

[HammondDave]

Yes, and these are typically excellent players. The problem on this occasion was a bottle of mescal, a bottle of tequila, and three bottles of red wine someone brought into the green room unbeknownst to me. :-)

 

Yup. The secret of crappy performances.

[MotiDave]

this is a tough love environment, thats for sure. the ones that can't take it become lead singers or actors.

 

Van who? bonnie huh? James T-what? nope, never heard of them

 

HammondDave nailed the test for my (strictly my) application: The Machine Head test. Since my first concert as a kid (Grand Funk), I've really only wanted to be in obnoxiously loud rock bands

[HammondDave]

 

HammondDave nailed the test for my (strictly my) application: The Machine Head test. Since my first concert as a kid (Grand Funk), I've really only wanted to be in obnoxiously loud rock bands

 

If that's the case, this is the type of sound amplification you really need...

 

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff374/hammonddave/Jon-Lord-Rig_zpskzorqnqn.jpg

[MathOfInsects]

But I thank the creator

 

Hey, no religion!

[cphollis]

I'll say it once again - the SSv3 is much, much louder than its specs would otherwise suggest -- even without a bass sub.

 

If you're used to playing with a typical keyboard amp or self-powered PA, you're used to a big fall-off in volume as distance increases: really loud in your ears as you're close to the amp, not so loud for the rest of the band, and even less loud for the audience. So you crank it appropriately.

 

With the SSv3, it's sort of backwards. If you're close to the amp, it doesn't sound all that loud to you. Your bandmates will hear it louder, and even may ask you to turn down. And your audience will certainly hear you clearly -- and maybe suggest that you turn down as well. If you crank it as you're used to, it'll be too much for everyone else -- you'll be "that guy".

 

I didn't understand this the first few gigs, and ended up unintentionally giving everyone else an earful. Now that I understand how my volume is perceived at a distance, I play much quieter (to my ears) than I used to. And everyone hears me clearly.

[HammondDave]

Your bandmates will hear it louder, and even may ask you to turn down. And your audience will certainly hear you clearly -- and maybe suggest that you turn down as well. If you crank it as you're used to, it'll be too much for everyone else -- you'll be "that guy".

 

My bandmates usually ask me to "turn it down", but I don't think it has anything to do with volume.

[Brettymike]

I'll say it once again - the SSv3 is much, much louder than its specs would otherwise suggest -- even without a bass sub.

 

If you're used to playing with a typical keyboard amp or self-powered PA, you're used to a big fall-off in volume as distance increases: really loud in your ears as you're close to the amp, not so loud for the rest of the band, and even less loud for the audience. So you crank it appropriately.

 

With the SSv3, it's sort of backwards. If you're close to the amp, it doesn't sound all that loud to you. Your bandmates will hear it louder, and even may ask you to turn down. And your audience will certainly hear you clearly -- and maybe suggest that you turn down as well. If you crank it as you're used to, it'll be too much for everyone else -- you'll be "that guy".

 

I didn't understand this the first few gigs, and ended up unintentionally giving everyone else an earful. Now that I understand how my volume is perceived at a distance, I play much quieter (to my ears) than I used to. And everyone hears me clearly.

 

This is amazing , now the piano for instance is too loud?? , well this is a first , I can't believe it.

I've never in my life heard a piano (at least) too loud in ANY band (I could imagine organ getting up there, but even then...).

 

Brett

[rickp]

Played three gospel events Sunday using CP4 (with fulltime LH acoustic bass split) along with a dual mic'd acoustic guitarist and a female vocalist; frequent 3 part harmony and some pretty punchy volume in 200-400 seat venues, running through K10's with KSub and GK MB210.

 

Decided to use the SSv3 as the sole monitor, placed about 15' in front of and firing back at group, tilted upward with wide dialed at 2o'clock since no reflective surfaces were nearby. Stage front looked totally clean with the SSv3 down on audience floor level, angled upward for its sound to clear the 4 or 5 steps running across the church stages.

 

It handled full FOH mix at potent volumes - and even being closer than considered optimum for "bloom," the monitor mix had an omnidirectional surround effect - and insiders in the audience reported feeling surrounded by the sound even though the SSv3 was pointed away from the audience.

 

Perhaps the side-firing speaker did its thing in conjunction with the K10's to produce the SSv3 effect - will certainly be using this configuration again.

 

We're usually writing in this thread about the SSv3 firing out toward the audience, just wanted to report that the SSv3 is killer as a rear-firing sole monitor if you get the opportunity to try it in that mode.

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

I know the soundman didn't boost me because he worked for me....The only reason I went through the system at all was that he had a signal to feed to another videographer who was taking a mix of the board.

 

A) Nice playing.

 

B) Not to nitpick, but a feed off the board would only need signal coming in, not going out.

 

Therefore, I think it's worth considering whether C) Would any sound man, in the heat of a performance, let the keyboard player he was hired by get lost in the mix all night? If he has signal to work with, and he needs to boost it, you have to figure he's gonna boost it. And if the guy who's paying him not to boost the keys asks afterward if he did, you have to figure a smart sound man will say no.

 

So it's entirely conceivable that both things could be true: that your FOH sound was (as far as you knew) mostly SS3, and that in fact it was greatly helped along by the mains. In this case, the only culprit would have been a good sound man just doing his job--on a couple of different fronts.

 

This is not meant to deconstruct your claim, just to reconcile what I think is a completely understandable limitation of this great box with an experience that seems at odds with my own.

 

I agree with HammondDave, a context with a completely unmic'd SS3 would be more instructive.

 

BUT....as I entered this thread for my very first post here cautioning, it's not supposed to be an FOH box. It's a monitor. It does a great job as such. It doesn't need to send a single wave to FOH, to be a complete success in its intended use (which it is).

 

Having said all that, one of my sideman jobs involves monthly gig at a venue where I can run SS3+sub as FOH sound. If I can get a field recorder or iPhone set up near the back, I'll do it and post it. I've been curious myself to hear the sound FOH with this set-up.

[HAMEGZ]

I'll say it once again - the SSv3 is much, much louder than its specs would otherwise suggest -- even without a bass sub.

 

 

With the SSv3, it's sort of backwards. If you're close to the amp, it doesn't sound all that loud to you. Your bandmates will hear it louder, and even may ask you to turn down. And your audience will certainly hear you clearly -- and maybe suggest that you turn down as well. If you crank it as you're used to, it'll be too much for everyone else -- you'll be "that guy".

 

I didn't understand this the first few gigs, and ended up unintentionally giving everyone else an earful. Now that I understand how my volume is perceived at a distance, I play much quieter (to my ears) than I used to. And everyone hears me clearly.

 

 

THIS, it took me a while to grasp this, as first I had the SS right by me. Then I had the dread overdrive issues because of improper cables and gain structure of mt SM10.

Now it resides behind or to the side of me and everybody is happy

[GDFourcade]

Nice performance, Jazzooo! Tx for post it.

The organ has a "sutil" blend with the band. We can hear all your playing details and it seems that the SS3 fit right with the volume of all instruments.

BTW, is interesting that, having so many people enjoying it, the skeptics want to compare it with a stack of Marshals, something for which it is not build (8" woofer, 100 W).

 

 

[BWood]

For those who are waiting on back orders, I ordered my SS3 on 4/3/15. Just got a call from SW and it is shipping today.

 

[Doug Robinson]

Math said:

 

"A) Nice playing."

 

Gracias.

 

"B) Not to nitpick, but a feed off the board would only need signal coming in, not going out. "

 

 

True. I let him add a tiny bit to the house during soundcheck but was satisfied that what the audience was hearing was mainly the SS3, as it has been for 100% of my other concerts and gigs before and since.

 

 

"Therefore, I think it's worth considering whether C) Would any sound man, in the heat of a performance, let the keyboard player he was hired by get lost in the mix all night? If he has signal to work with, and he needs to boost it, you have to figure he's gonna boost it. And if the guy who's paying him not to boost the keys asks afterward if he did, you have to figure a smart sound man will say no. "

 

 

Lol, maybe you're right. Maybe you were hearing 100% front of house sound.

 

 

"So it's entirely conceivable that both things could be true: that your FOH sound was (as far as you knew) mostly SS3, and that in fact it was greatly helped along by the mains. In this case, the only culprit would have been a good sound man just doing his job--on a couple of different fronts."

 

this might be true if it was the only gig I've played. Obviously it isn't. I'm not sure why such thought goes into responding to a video and my description, but I honestly feel you're over-thinking this. I play music all the time, and every gig I'm doing now is with the SS3 alone--I have other videos, but this was the loudest gig that was recorded so I figured I'd post it instead of the others, because if I post something in a small venue some will say "Well, I'd like to hear it in a different venue, playing different music..." or whatever.

 

 

"This is not meant to deconstruct your claim, just to reconcile what I think is a completely understandable limitation of this great box with an experience that seems at odds with my own."

 

 

I can't imagine that if you were onstage with me at that concert that you would have felt underpowered. You can insist that you would have felt that way, but I think I know better. Maybe if you were playing a different kind of music, of course. But that stage, those tunes, that night, those players? Nah.

 

 

"I agree with HammondDave, a context with a completely unmic'd SS3 would be more instructive. "

 

 

Well, I'll post one of those...but I bet it will get a whole different set of objections.

 

 

"BUT....as I entered this thread for my very first post here cautioning, it's not supposed to be an FOH box. It's a monitor. It does a great job as such."

 

 

This is the part I really don't understand--I view it as a keyboard amp. The fact that i can also run the signal out to FOH doesn't make it a FOH box any more than putting a mic in front of a twin reverb makes that amp a FOH box, does it?

[Doug Robinson]

That concert video was from a night I produce and arranged that featured three different rhythm sections, vocalists, acoustic piano and keyboard duets, Latin/salsa, boleros, funk and straight ahead jazz. I had a lot on my mind.

 

here are two clips from the after-show jam session at a small restaurant where I've played with blues and jazz bands, so I know the room well. Just my SS3, sitting off to my left and about 1 foot away from me. Obviously we aren't playing Deep Purple. The first clip has a wonderfully frenetic sax solo (he's doing his best Michael Brecker) and a bass solo (he's quite good). The second clip features a nice, exploratory trumpet solo with minimal comping and then a keyboard solo...but as you'll see, playing balls out for me isn't my only color choice.

 

Still, you can get an idea of how the SS3 lets my keys fit with the rest of the group, filmed by a pro with a good handheld camera.

 

and of course, let's not forget that it's still about our choices as players--I could have played louder but this felt right to me.

 

 

[Doug Robinson]

Sorry, while listening I realized I could probably just point you to about 10:00 to the end of the second clip, where we're all blasting away.

[Doerfler]

For those who are waiting on back orders, I ordered my SS3 on 4/3/15. Just got a call from SW and it is shipping today.

 

just received an email that mine shipped today. It's about a week earlier than I expected.

 

[garnermike]

I am repeating myself.

 

The SSv.3, when used linked to FOH or a subwoofer amp of at least 200 watts, is plenty LOUD, even when used in a LOUD band playing music that is meant to be played and heard LOUD.

 

I most always set it up with the out v.3's link going to a subwoofer/bass amp. In really smallish venues, I will go with the v.3 alone. In larger venues, I will have the v.3 linked to a subwoofer/bass amp, but then link that subwoofer/bass amp (via its direct out) to FOH. And sometimes, when I don't want to bother with toting two amps for keys, I will go with the v.3 linked to FOH.

 

My band can get truly loud. We are most always told to turn our volume down.

 

Look, getting heard --- via either real decibel volume or via the v.3's wrap-around, omni-directional effect --- is, IMHO, not a problem.

[Brettymike]

Math said:

 

"A) Nice playing."

 

Gracias.

 

"B) Not to nitpick, but a feed off the board would only need signal coming in, not going out. "

 

 

True. I let him add a tiny bit to the house during soundcheck but was satisfied that what the audience was hearing was mainly the SS3, as it has been for 100% of my other concerts and gigs before and since.

 

 

"Therefore, I think it's worth considering whether C) Would any sound man, in the heat of a performance, let the keyboard player he was hired by get lost in the mix all night? If he has signal to work with, and he needs to boost it, you have to figure he's gonna boost it. And if the guy who's paying him not to boost the keys asks afterward if he did, you have to figure a smart sound man will say no. "

 

 

Lol, maybe you're right. Maybe you were hearing 100% front of house sound.

 

 

"So it's entirely conceivable that both things could be true: that your FOH sound was (as far as you knew) mostly SS3, and that in fact it was greatly helped along by the mains. In this case, the only culprit would have been a good sound man just doing his job--on a couple of different fronts."

 

this might be true if it was the only gig I've played. Obviously it isn't. I'm not sure why such thought goes into responding to a video and my description, but I honestly feel you're over-thinking this. I play music all the time, and every gig I'm doing now is with the SS3 alone--I have other videos, but this was the loudest gig that was recorded so I figured I'd post it instead of the others, because if I post something in a small venue some will say "Well, I'd like to hear it in a different venue, playing different music..." or whatever.

 

 

"This is not meant to deconstruct your claim, just to reconcile what I think is a completely understandable limitation of this great box with an experience that seems at odds with my own."

 

 

I can't imagine that if you were onstage with me at that concert that you would have felt underpowered. You can insist that you would have felt that way, but I think I know better. Maybe if you were playing a different kind of music, of course. But that stage, those tunes, that night, those players? Nah.

 

 

"I agree with HammondDave, a context with a completely unmic'd SS3 would be more instructive. "

 

 

Well, I'll post one of those...but I bet it will get a whole different set of objections.

 

 

"BUT....as I entered this thread for my very first post here cautioning, it's not supposed to be an FOH box. It's a monitor. It does a great job as such."

 

 

This is the part I really don't understand--I view it as a keyboard amp. The fact that i can also run the signal out to FOH doesn't make it a FOH box any more than putting a mic in front of a twin reverb makes that amp a FOH box, does it?

 

Ha Ha! This is all like a court of inquiry

 

Brett

[HammondDave]

That concert video was from a night I produce and arranged that featured three different rhythm sections, vocalists, acoustic piano and keyboard duets, Latin/salsa, boleros, funk and straight ahead jazz. I had a lot on my mind.

 

here are two clips from the after-show jam session at a small restaurant where I've played with blues and jazz bands, so I know the room well. Just my SS3, sitting off to my left and about 1 foot away from me. Obviously we aren't playing Deep Purple. The first clip has a wonderfully frenetic sax solo (he's doing his best Michael Brecker) and a bass solo (he's quite good). The second clip features a nice, exploratory trumpet solo with minimal comping and then a keyboard solo...but as you'll see, playing balls out for me isn't my only color choice.

 

Still, you can get an idea of how the SS3 lets my keys fit with the rest of the group, filmed by a pro with a good handheld camera.

 

and of course, let's not forget that it's still about our choices as players--I could have played louder but this felt right to me.

 

 

 

That was great! Maybe the only time I could sit through "Play That Funky Music" and enjoy it.

[Bossbandbob]

I am repeating myself.

 

The SSv.3, when used linked to FOH or a subwoofer amp of at least 200 watts, is plenty LOUD, even when used in a LOUD band playing music that is meant to be played and heard LOUD.

 

I most always set it up with the out v.3's link going to a subwoofer/bass amp. In really smallish venues, I will go with the v.3 alone. In larger venues, I will have the v.3 linked to a subwoofer/bass amp, but then link that subwoofer/bass amp (via its direct out) to FOH. And sometimes, when I don't want to bother with toting two amps for keys, I will go with the v.3 linked to FOH.

 

My band can get truly loud. We are most always told to turn our volume down.

 

Look, getting heard --- via either real decibel volume or via the v.3's wrap-around, omni-directional effect --- is, IMHO, not a problem.

 

Thanks for repeating yourself, Mike...You talked me into getting this thing! Just gotta sell some stuff first. Thanks for posting your videos Jazzoo as well..great playing and the SS seems to carry it very well.

[MotiDave]

Needing to bring a v3 plus a second cabinet (whether a subwoof, or someone else said they run from v3 into a powered speaker) starts to defeat my goal of minimilization and ease.

 

I'm sure its awesome for alot of guys applications, and I am really intrigued with the concept. maybe v4 will deliver a 10" or even a 12" bad ass door-blowing window shattering sonic bomb. I'm not sold that a little 8" is going to have the balls to rock a house if I'm running mono tones and nothing is firing from the sides. If its just for my own stage amusement ... I have to rethink. Maybe in my particular case a powered speaker solution is better. I don't know.

 

Jazzoo, its time you visited your home. bring the v3, i'll try yours out

[Doug Robinson]

[MathOfInsects]

Hey, Jazzoo--

 

I came at that clumsily, and I apologize. I wasn't trying to question your judgment or experience in any way. MotiDave was asking about competing with the guitar, bass and drums in (for example) a Bon Jovi tribute, and I was cautioning against raising expectations too high for this box in that context. Since he mentioned usually running in mono, I thought it was worth saying that the SS3 might not be the most ideal grenade thrower in that battle.

 

I use and love the SS3, I'm pretty sure I was one of the first five or ten to do so, and don't wish to be the voice of skepticism about it. It's boss. So's your playing.

 

Whatever annoying, irrelevant, gad-flyish questions I had about how scientific a test that performance video was, I should have been smart enough to keep to myself--and then take them to a bonfire made of Creed and Slipknot CDs, burn them into smoke and ash, and then burn the smoke and ash in a new fire of Incubus CDs, which is then run over by a truck dragging NIckleback CDs, which is then blown up by feeding dynamite to Dane Cook.

[Al Quinn]

For those who are waiting on back orders, I ordered my SS3 on 4/3/15. Just got a call from SW and it is shipping today.

 

just received an email that mine shipped today. It's about a week earlier than I expected.

 

Mine shipped today too. Should have it Friday. Exciting!

[Brettymike]

We need a full report with forensic technicians , audio geeks , and witnesses.

 

Brett

[Jazzmammal]

Dave, now that tax season's over maybe we can get together. I've threatened to come see you for a while now, maybe I'll bring my SS to your house to check out or even to one of your gigs. PM me if you want.

 

All I can say is what I've said before, the SS can really scream to the point I don't want it any louder without earplugs. The only time I got the infamous fart was when I started the bass line to Cold Duck in the middle of a hot set. That was too much for it without a sub.

 

Bob

[Raymb1]

Is anyone panning hard left and hard right on their mixer controls for the keyboards?

[Doug Robinson]

Math---Dane Cook? You're being way too hard on yourself.