rickp

For quick reference, here's Nord's comparison chart: S3 / S4 Comparison Chart

Nord's Stage 4 pages are up; I was interested in the 73HA but see the weight is only 6.4 pounds less than my S3-88 - and only 8.5 inches shorter. Split points are still pre-defined, displays have not appreciably changed . . . From what I see, I'll stick with my S3-88 and S3 Compact.

One of the QSC CP8 speakers normally used live as vocal monitors. Also use a single board in rehearsal, run both channels into the CP8, and position it for my listening. Run a long XLR out of the CP8 to the PA. Running mono in rehearsal provides folks on both sides/ends of the space full range keyboard rather than LH or RH stereo bias. Lightweight, quick and easy - makes rehearsal setup/teardown a treat.

So Yamaha fixed the nasty ground loop buzz you would get if you tried that with a CP4?

To help the thread starter: Yamaha also does the P-121, which is the same as the P-125 (so as you rightly noticed, very similar to your P-85) but with one octave, 2 kilos and about 20 cms less. If I end up not buying the 50 pound P-515 the P-121 is my next choice, unless i can find a used CP4. Thanks for the responses, really great information. I'm still kicking it around in my head. But at this moment I'm leaning towards the P-515. As I just mentioned in another thread, I've become a big fan of the P515, and grab it over my CP4 and other boards for anything piano-centric when a separate aux-out for split bass isn't needed. I'm in the "take what you enjoy playing the most" camp; compromises have to be made somewhere and I'll take mine as some additional grunting required carrying in and out. I lugged an S90ES around for years, and the P515 feels much lighter and shorter, even though it is not much of either. I've always hand carried my digital boards, convinced (rightly or wrongly) that the wheeled-case jostles over thresholds and expansion seams couldn't be good for the longevity of my boards' electronics or moveable parts, so the lightest reasonably padded case that will fit coupled with a repurposed ski bag shoulder strap (strap is positioned to carry 75% of the weight, arm around/hand cupped under the case carry 25%) have become my standard moving rig. Bags such as the Gator GKB series protect well and only add a few pounds and a few inches to the board's weight and dimensions, which help with vehicle fit, loading and unloading, and easing the case onto a table top or amp or a couple chairs lined up for casing and uncasing (I cringe anytime I see a keyboard player wrestle a keyboard out of a case at floor level and then do the clean-and-jerk to move it to the stand . . . some initial elevation sure helps the back immensely). FWIW, the Gator GKB 88 Slim fits the P515 like a glove and only adds 7 pounds to its weight and about 3 inches to its length.

I've become a fan of the P515. If I'm asked to do something piano-centric and a separate output for split bass isn't needed, I'm grabbing the P515 every time these days, despite its extra pounds over the CP4 or Stage 3. Keyboard connection / touch are excellent. If several registrations are needed, the WIFI usb adapter (usb cable and Apple camera adapter can also be used) and an iPad mini provide full touch screen control which allows one-touch registrations with the names and orders needed, access to over 500 voices, and the reassurance that even the dimmest stage lighting between songs for dramatic effect won't leave me with the drama of trying to find and select the correct panel buttons.

For the price range, give the QSC CP series a listen. They're lighter and a bit more compact than their K.2 cousins. I bought the CP8s to use as unobtrusive trio monitors with the K.2 8s and/or 10s out front, but I've increasingly grabbed them instead of K.2s for rehearsals or solo CP4 hotel or banquet events. I used my Key Largo as pre the first CP4 event, but after a little experimentation at home, I've since used xlr directly into them, eq'd for the room, and been happy with the result and the small, light and easy form factor.

Would add Norah Jones, Sara Bareillas.

Many thanks to AS too for in-depth LH Bass discussions/contributions - very much appreciated.

Mine are velcroed on a 3' x 4" rug, along with 3 Nord pedals. No pedal chasing ever and the pedals have consistent placement every time. For transport, the front half of the rug is folded over the pedals, pedal cords place on top, and then the 2 ends are folded/rolled over the middle. That lump of rug is then placed in the bottom of a gator 10' speaker bag, with plenty of room remaining for cables, power block, and collapsed Gibraltar pneu throne base. Travels well. Makes set up a breeze too.

Yes, you"re missing the primary function of your Rolls - to hear your own mic via the pass-through. Run your mic through the Rolls" mic channel, put the monitor out from your KL (which is hard to beat as a sub-$1k keyboard pre) into the TRS channel of the Rolls, and mix to taste for your IEMs. To me, the best use of that Rolls is as an IEM amp fed by a stereo monitor feed (from FOH or stage monitor mixer) mixed to your taste, and your mic fed straight to FOH mixer or vocal preamps, as I think the pass-through does attenuate the voc mic"s signal a bit. If you"re at the mercy of a venue"s unfamiliar sound crew, you may want to run your mic through the Rolls just in case the sound crew is not giving you what you need, and you need to independently bump your mic up in your IEM mix. I agree with you that the limiter is a must; my PM351 gets little use these days unless I"m using it as a quick and easy mixer to feed a wedge - works absolutely great for that - you can mix your mic, your keys, and FOH feed to taste without worrying at all about the sound guys.

I saw a bit of it onscreen in my doc"s reception area (sinus a/b time of year), bass was well covered, and they were all playing with both hands, albeit the front audience-right player also played a percussion pad on one song with his left hand. Honestly, the thing that captured my attention most was the coordination of the Gibraltar stands, and secondarily a few close-shot glimpses of the nice cable management using Velcro ties.

Taylor Swift performed on GMA yesterday morning with four keyboardists, a drummer and one guitar player. Quite a statement about the versatility and utility of modern keyboards, and a definite shift away from guitar-centric bands. Trend that will continue?

I've been happy with a custom fit Stage3 88 cover from eBay; this is the link to that company's product for the P515.

We play over 20 outdoor gigs per year that require equipment to be exposed to afternoon/early evening sun. I have several long generic windshield sun reflectors, several white shower curtain liners (with magnets in the bottom hem that will grip keyboards fairly well) and assorted length bungie cords bought at the dollar store for maybe $40 total. The windshield sun reflectors totally cover the tops of my boards and amps/speakers when they're not in use, and I'll loosely wrap them with the shower curtain liners first if there is any risk of a pop shower or blowing dust. All of that is fairly quick on/off, and stows easily. If we're going to play in intense sunlight, I have one windshield sun reflector that has been trimmed to cover my Stage 3's top panel (I go single-board for the festivals that require quick on/off band transitions) with an overhang over the front and partial cutouts (H-shape cuts that allow "flaps" that will open for control and display access; the flaps also help shade the displays) for a few of the control areas of the keyboard that will require access or viewing during the set. Using pedals for rotor speed, volume, and to advance through presets minimizes the "ports" I need open all the time. To shade my iPads, I have two collapsible music stands that I position as needed, with a 16x24" doubled and taped section of windshield sun screen clipped on the music shelf. Those can be easily tilted or moved as needed to keep the iPads shaded, and they're convenient to keep collapsed and packed away in my cable and pedal case if they're not needed. I still also use cheap reflective "space/rescue blankets" to totally cover equipment if it is going to set in a pre-stage area or onstage a long time between soundcheck and showtime; not the most attractive thing, but very effective. I bought a bunch of those cheap in bulk on eBay, as sometimes the large, cheap thin ones are good for just one use.

First class.

Agreed, as long as the keyboard's dimensions work with the 9800's interior dimensions (50-3/8 in. x 13-5/8 in. x 5-1/8 in). That knocks out a bunch of 88's.

I have this one ( V800 Vault ) on the way, seems like it would be perfect for a Stage 3 88; found it on sale for less than $200 with shipping and tax.

It seems to me any board has an area of weakness, but sometimes an acceptable cure is available from third parties. 'B"s Knees' allowed my S90ES to be a single board solution many nights with a few of its organ patches, even garnering some compliments from musos very familiar with Yamaha"s organ shortcomings. If I had an MODX or Montage, I"d buy the version for those boards in a heartbeat. As others have mentioned, that same board (which accepts a breath controller) and its Motif brethren can generate very convincing brass sounds, pulling off 'Make Me Smile' with smiles. No such joy with my Stage 3. I"m wondering if a third party offering like this one (Link) might be the bee"s knees for my Nord"s brass woes. I think I"ll try out a few before I declare the Nord a total brass loss.

I used to haul around a Monster HTS 3600 Power Conditioner, then noticed Furman PST-8s being used at a recording studio owned by a guy who is very picky about all aspects of sound production, including power conditioning; he said they equaled his far more expensive rack conditioners, so I made the switch. Very happy with the quality and the portability.

Cheaper than a bigger car or a new weighted keyboard - take along your P121.

This is a common theme, and I have experimented with running my key bass sounds in my combis separately thru my bass head. I've been going through the AUX return, which then gets fed into the cabs same as my bass guitar. But the levels are unpredictable on stage, even though I spend a good deal of time pre-mixing at home. I've gone back to putting key bass back into the main keyboard mix lately. I think I might need somehow to run a separate feed to FOH for key bass, just like I do with bass guitar and stereo keys. Yeah, the separate feed to FOH for LH keyboard bass, just like for bass guitar, cures a lot of ills - including the unpredictable levels you mentioned - and sure makes the FOH sound guy's job easier; one FOH channel fader clearly and cleanly controls bass volume without any collateral impact to/from all other keyboard sounds, plus bass tone shaping and routing to subs, etc., is exactly the same as folks are accustomed to doing with bass guitars. A keyboard dedicated to LH bass, such as the MX49 I often use or the Korg R3 I recently retired from bass duties, naturally totally eliminates unpredictable levels resulting from your RH keyboard patch changes, since it's then a totally separate instrument with its own sound chain. But the same thing can be achieved splitting a single keyboard and assigning the bass to the keyboard's aux-out to create a dedicated bass sound chain; if you're careful to maintain consistent bass settings when creating and saving patches, it will feel like your LH has a wholly separate instrument from the RH (although needing aux outs severely limits keyboard choices). From this setup it sounds like you set it once and forget it... no adjusting level during the gig. Funny you mention the Sansamp, because on actual bass guitar, that gritty, growling (Geddy) bass sound is one of the main tones I'm striving for. Although for key bass songs what's needed more often is just more conventional (non-synthy) bass guitar sounds. Do you get enough enough dynamic response with this setup, or are you more about the bass line just doing its basic duties? IMHO, the SansAmp VT does a great job sucking the last bit of keys synth coloring from bass patches and injecting some Ampeg-sounding gravity and punch, seems to create additional dynamic headroom, and does allow for set-and-forget convenience (but the footswitch and well-marked knobs also allow for quick and accurate sound changes on the fly if desired). I've tried several bass D.I.'s and settled on the SansAmp because it helps produce the Ampeg sound I'd grown accustomed to with Ampeg bass amps before I switched to GK for a lighter and more gig-customizable form factor, and because it has the convenience of running on phantom power or 9v battery. I'm sure the other bass D.I.'s mentioned in this thread produce great results; it's simply a matter of personal preference. Another key advantage of using a bass D.I. for the bass FOH feed is making it easy to cleanly separate bass from all the other keyboard sounds that are being fed to FOH from a stereo D.I. or mixer - it then becomes as if the bass player and the keyboard player were two totally separate players, as far as FOH mixer duties are concerned. Also, feeding the FOH bass channel from a bass D.I. rather than from the back of the bass amp gives you the opportunity to be a little fancy in what goes into and comes out of the bass amp on stage. I typically have bass, a bit of RH keys (using the amp's tone shelving, adds some onstage low-end gravity to the keys - particularly useful to add guts to organ or EP's, or when playing un-split/full keyboard AP for intros) and a bit of kick drum coming from my bass amp when we're running our own sound (bass amp is fed from an aux-out from the mixer, allowing me to pick and choose multiple channels to hear through the bass amp); if the venue is providing FOH sound, I use a small mixer to receive and route the "monitor" line feeds from my KeyLargo and the SansAmp, throwing all the KeyLargo's monitor signal to onstage K8.2s and a bit of the KeyLargo and all of the SansAmp to whatever GK bass amp array I'm using for that venue. In that way, having some good bass amplification actually does more than produce great bass sounds; it enhances all the other keyboard sounds too. As for your dynamic response question, I'm more than satisfied with dynamic response when splitting a hammer-action keyboard; I can easily get a subtle supportive bass, or add a pinch of punch, or dig in for more umph or growl, or use some amped or higher drive P-bass or J-bass settings with rocked octave playing to emulate thumb hits, etc., all just from how I play without touching volume or other controls. Also, to me, fast running upright bass lines sound more realistic when played on a hammer action. On a synth keyboard, I'm less happy with what I can do dynamically to emulate a bass guitar or upright, YMMV. This is my main goal -- great rocking bass guitar when needed, and that same vibe reproduced when playing LH bass as the song calls for. We run our own sound, and do minimal sound checks, so I can never tell if the key bass is too quiet or just right. Maybe adding something like an ART Pro VLA II for its opto compressor will boost and smooth everything out while still allowing for dynamic expression. You might find, IMHO, that running some good bass patches via a dedicated bass signal through a bass D.I. will give you the sound and dynamics you want (don't forget the EQing/compressing you can do in the FOH channel and the tone shaping you can accomplish with your bass amp either) without the need to add any other components to your bass sound chain. I know what you mean about the challenges of finding the bass volume and tone sweet-spot when your group is running its own sound; we set up and run our own sound probably 60% of the time. Knowing what your bass feed is going to consistently produce independent of all other kb sounds gets you most of the way there; keeping consistent stage volume as a band and consistent relative channel settings (we cheat on that, using show presets on a digital mixer that have been tweaked through time and saved; "shows" are then recalled depending upon indoor/outdoor/venue size/primary genre, no soundcheck required) will get you almost totally there. To get the rest of the way there, if I may offer a tip, it would be to set up your sound levels with your keyboard bass volume control at its midpoint (making sure the FOH mixer gain settings will allow for increases in your source volume feed without clipping), to give you maximum flexibility to quickly and easily season the bass volume just from your keyboard during songs, without needing to touch the mixer or amp or bass D.I. settings.

Ive played LH Keyboard bass since the 70s starting with a FenderRhodes pianobass, and then, as now, playing LH bass 80+ gigs/year, I think the primary key to making it work convincingly as an upright or bass guitar equivalent is to use a dedicated bass signal and sound chain, just as a bass guitar would have. A bass DI with some sound shaping tools like the Tech 21 SansAmp Bass VT DI lets you shape and adjust to any FOH system, and that DI in conjunction with various GK bass amp setups (depending upon the venue size and volume needs) has worked well for me, whether using an MX49 for bass in a 2 or 3 keyboard setup or using an aux-out for bass and splitting a Stage3 88 or S90 ES in a single keyboard setup. As others have mentioned above, if youve tweaked a few good patches and play them through a good bass sound chain, people will often comment that it sounded like a bass guitar or doghouse was playing.

I'm 62, and share the view that it's hard to think of Beatles music as anything other than classic and innovative . . . and while I'm sure many "youngsters" blissfully dismiss it as "old," I've also happily seen evidence suggesting that many among the newest generation of music lovers view it as creative and even fresh. I have a 13 year-old stepdaughter, and she and her dance classmates are absolutely nuts about the music of The Beatles, Queen and Elton John (with both of the latter affinities well pre-dating the related movies), and they genuinely gush about how great that music is. They know I perform live music, so I consequently get peppered with questions about various artists (but invariably mostly those three) and their music, and I'm constantly amazed at the depth and breadth of their questions and of the knowledge they've already acquired. The only modern artist they appear to be as equally enamored with is Charlie Puth, who seems to me to be multiple levels above much of the modern fare. Impressive. But - just when I become convinced that the upcoming generation of music lovers (or at least the segment that is seriously interested in music) have a great deal of substance and gravity in their musical choices, I'm inexplicably subjected to an evening of YouTube fare that runs the gamut from nonsensical "humor" to the mantras of angst and depression referenced above. But those sessions usually thankfully end as quickly and inexplicably as they began - and the Beatles/Queen/John/Puth reign resumes. I want to think those quick fits of YouTube forays are the product of simple curiosity rather than any real interest . . . but who knows. All I do know is that the musical tastes of teenagers - as in most things teenager - are hard to peg.

Aside from having nice preamp characteristics and very clean boost or gain staging, the Key Largo is a great tool for both bars and festivals, as both often have separate electrical circuitry for stage and FOH sound booth; having iosolated XLR outs for the FOH feed plus two separate ground lifts solves those problems. It will serve all the functions you need and simplify your setup by being an all-in-one solution. So you can buy one thing with assurance that you'll be happy with its durability (power supply is its only vulnerable component) and sound quality and be done.