rickp

I second the Mackie 802VLZ4; mine is a several years old VLZ3 with nearly daily use, still works like new. Will add that the flexibility of these mixers is extraordinary for the size and price. As an example, I run three keyboards into it (one is for bass and is mono), the two stereo keyboards go to FOH via the XLR outs and back to the SS3 via the 1/4 control room outs - so there are separate volume controls for the mains in each direction (can also use 1/4 main outs to the SS3, sans separate SS3 volume control, if you want to use the control room outs for recording). The bass keyboard channel is switched from the main outs to outputs 3/4 via a button on the channel strip (which can also be used as a mute button if you aren't tapping the 3/4 outs); bass goes to FOH via the TS/TRS output 3 (using a TRS 1/4 to XLR adapter to send via XLR cable)and back to a bass amp via the AUX 1 out, so you have separate volume controls for bass FOH via the channel's fader and to the amp via the aux knob (the mixer also has a master AUX 1 knob). Since adding the SS3 (in place of 2 K8's) on top of the bass amp (GK MB210 for small venues or modest FOH/sub support), I wanted to use the bass amp to supplement the SS3 for the CP4's APs and a bit for the SK1 and so just eased a bit of aux 1 into those channels - but the EQ setup on bass channel and bass amp wasn't good for the stereo boards. But, running the SS3's sub-out into an open mixer channel allowed dialing in the right EQ to feed the stereo boards just a bit into the bass amp as supplement (using the channel strip's aux 1 knob only and leaving its master fader off). All of that is a convoluted and rambling endorsement, I know, but I think it demonstrates the sort of options and versatility the 802VLZ4 offers in a $199 small tough footprint.

Chiming in; I agree 98% with your comments, and also what the others guys are saying here about the need for a sub IF you have a heavy left hand gig with a loud guitarist and a heavy handed drummer...I'd say "play it safe", bring a sub. . . . That said, and not trying to be argumentative..BUT..I take issue with just 2% of that comment; the SS v.3 IS a "ported cab", it's CX2008 8" driver has a very big 2" voice coil, and we did computer modeling it to it's environment to maximize it's LF...so "for it's size", it can really crank out some LF. And by no means does it "die" at 100 Hz, it just starts to roll off at respectable 3dB per octave. Thanks Aspen, and sorry, did not realize looking at the amp that the 8" is ported, but hope you realize too that the post was not intended in any way to knock the 8" (in fact, I noted it will "clearly produce notes at volume in low ranges") but to just honestly answer a fellow forum member (whom I recognized from many other posts, particularly about venue house pianos, as someone who has played some terrific acoustic piano powerhouses) about achieving that low end grand AP tone and resonance - a tall order indeed - but one I believe is filled by the SSv3 coupled with a small bass amp (and as I am about to further respond to timwat, the GK MB210 amp I'm using is probably overkill). I don't see that as a negative, but rather as high praise indeed for the small unit on top that's doing the magic other amps are unable to emulate. And as I mentioned in the post as a caveat to my comments, I use IEMs and rehearsal speaker systems that have a lot of bass handling and headroom that frame my tone mindset; I probably should have also added that part of my lower register AP thinking stems from owning and playing an '86 Kawai KG2D over the past decades - and further from possessing a left-hand piano-playing touch that quite often might best be described as "having the touch of a blacksmith." As I also wrote, I do believe a well-positioned SS3 alone will be all that's needed for many players in many circumstances. I really like what the 8" does, so much so that I don't have any desire to use a crossover to cut the lower end freqs flowing into the SS3 (the roll-off you designed into the amp prevents any undesirable low-end results); I like the partnership the 8" makes with a small bass amp, with each having some excursion into the range of the other; I think the result is a thick rich tone that is still clearly defined, with high notes from the SS3 seeming to dance somehow. After just three full days of ownership, I wouldn't want to be without this amp. Thanks for a truly game-changing product. I mentioned in an earlier post seeing several well-seasoned musicians (over 140 years of playing collectively) acting like children over the sounds coming from this thing in rehearsal - they're musically hard to surprise, and they were truly enchanted with it. I'm just going to be one of the smaller percentage of happy users who want to use it in conjunction with a bass amp, but still achieving previously unthought of results in stage floorspace of less than two square feet with no poles or negotiation of space for second "spread" stereo speaker to worry with.

Hey Tim; to my ears, for full range stage AP if your left hand ventures below G2 often, it needs to have a supplemental unit - and that's not a knock whatsoever of the amp, love the thing - to me, it's just being realistic about what an 8" unported driver can do in a small cabinet. And I'm not saying it won't clearly produce notes at volume in low ranges; it indeed will; I'm referring to it more in terms of the AP tone and resonance you may be accustomed to hearing from an actual piano or even the CP4 with headphones or IEMs. But, if your jazz work carries a fairly high left hand on AP or if you're doing mostly organ and/or EP, it may seem inconsistent to say, but I get the sense that a well-positioned SSv3 alone could nicely handle a small to mid size jazz venue (by "jazz venue," I'm inferring volume levels that allow patrons to reasonably converse without yelling). I'm not so sure at that sort of volume that larger room size would even be much of an issue - the SSv3, to me, does not seem to have the dB distance/volume drop curve that typical amps/speakers have - the way the phasing and aiming of its speakers shapes and produces sound seems to have much more synergy (and here, I'm thinking back to Aspen's video with the water ripple effect as being VERY apt to describing the real thing). Now, I come at this with the bias of nearly always using IEMs (usually Shure SE315s) with all keys running stereo and from rehearsing in a setup that combines Yamaha ClubV 15's with QSC K8's, so I may have a bias toward big-speaker/high-headroom sound that underpins my thoughts/comments. Sorry for the rambling and perhaps inartful answer; I'll be glad to take further stabs at it if you'd like any further info.

I used to think the old Fender grill-cloth was designed to absorb cigarette smoke . . . taking the vinyl covers off the bandmaster and bassman cabs at home after having them in a two-night club gig (always loved those - no tear-down the first night, no setup the second) conjured the scents of two giant ashtrays. It was not much surprise, years later, to read about a "service" that would nicotine treat a new Fender grill to make it look vintage . . . the only surprise was that someone would actually pay for that service!

I like the grill as-is - IMHO, GK cheapened the look of their amps switching to black fabric.

Had rehearsal this evening in a room about 50' x 50', SS3 on a GK MB210 as shown/described in earlier posts today (only this time with mixer and keyboards including SK1), some very seasoned musicians in attendance acting like children in disbelief of the sounds this thing produces - predominant agreement was feeling as though totally surrounded by the sound and unable to pinpoint the direction of the source but for visually seeing the amp. Even after reading all the positive comments here, never would have believed pulling this amp out of the box yesterday that it could make such full, rich music.

Is it possible they were made in the same factory? Does anyone have any idea if the G-K uses Eminence speakers as well? I just checked GK's support sites, thought it might have Eminence but, nope, it has Paragon Neodymium 10" Bass Driver listed as replacement for the MB210 and several other GK amps. Same factory question - haven't found an answer - there certainly are many similarities . . .

Thanks! In tone too, I think; just eased the MB210's volume enough to fill the bottom. The MB210 amp was recently (mid to late 2014?) changed to a black fabric front and to add a direct link-out to GK's powered extension speaker units (my older version has a speakon jack to add a non-powered cab); a few of the metal-front models are still floating around online though.

SS3 delivered yesterday; thought I'd try it on top of my small venue bass amp, a Gallien Krueger MB210 (2 neo 10's and a horn, 350w @ 8ohms, 500w @ 4ohms, 33lbs.); ran 1/4's directly from CP4 into SS3, as I'd like to sometimes use a streamlined "no mixer" setup with the CP4's XLRs running directly to FOH; all that was needed for really nice AP was a 1 click drop of CP4's on-board mid EQ and dialing in the EQ, gain & support volume on the MB210. Looks like they were made for each other, right down to same knobs: http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd292/rickpoling/Sig%20P229%20pics/SS3/IMG_0754_zpscs9uhzmc.jpg http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd292/rickpoling/Sig%20P229%20pics/SS3/IMG_0755_zpsrfdruzdz.jpg http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd292/rickpoling/Sig%20P229%20pics/SS3/IMG_0756_zpsujspdf6r.jpg

I ordered on December 11th, my Sweetwater Rep, Nick Church, estimated the 3rd week of February; he called this morning, it will be here tomorrow - he was right on the money!

Very cool use of Pearl components . . . you'll have both drummers and keyboard players envious . . . Gibraltar sure seems to be making more of a move from drum hardware into the keyboard sector: Gibraltar Project Center. Maybe there's something we can learn from drummers after all.

Very welcome!

Please do, I won't need one for a few months, but definitely want to hear about it. Otherwise I will be taking mono out of 2 x KW181s into the SSv3. No biggie really but 200 lbs. worth of Subs is a little overkill. The outs from the KW181's are full-range pass-through, so you wouldn't be reducing the frequency range fed into the SS3 - sure would get some serious air from the subs though!

"Jeremiah was a bullfrog" . . . Hmmm - nope - still don't get it.

It's still $78 with free ship at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/SKB-Rolling-Powered-wheels-Handle/dp/B000Z2OC2U