Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

Blueskeys,

 

You're right, that's about how I see it too.. 0 to crap in about a quarter turn.. (although I might suggest it's 1 to 10:00 o'clock)..

 

There really isn't any way, that I'm aware of, to overcome this.. I tried using the overdrive MFX rather than the OD knob and it's the same issue..

 

My only suggestion would be to post your comments on the Roland Blog.. maybe they'll hear you and address this in another release.. sorry I don't have any other ideas, except to just turn it ever so slightly to see if you can find your sweet spot.

[Ken Beaumont]

Yup, same issue here. I have thought about getting a vent or burn because of it.

[BluesKeys]

Thanks Guys, I have a VK8m and the overdrive is much smoother operating. I would have go so far to say better, although next to the Vent it still is less than desireable. Will say the leslie sim is improved, but to bad to loose one and gain another.

 

[Bastida]

Hello

 

I think the overdrive behaves much better it is organic,

[brenner13]

Is that Morley pedal an expression pedal, or is it a volume pedal that goes in series with the VR-09's output?

My Morely's model number is EV5-VC...designed to function as a Roland EV5 expression pedal for keyboards. I think it was a limited run they did in the late 1980's...probably out if production now. It has both input and output connections so it can be used as an in-line volume pedal, however the output used by itself, plugged into the expression jack, provides the smoothest and widest control of any pedal I've tried with the VR09. I can actually get nice swells that ramps up the overdrive as it sweeps open, very similar to a real B3.

 

Speaking of which, I find the overdrive works fine with rock organ and Leslie type2 setting that cuts a lot of the highs. Agreed that the overdrive is only useful to about half-way up. Anything past that is just awful noise. Granted I'm playing Steppenwolf and early Deep Purple and Spencer Davis Group tunes with the band, so we want a pretty dirty tone for those. Also agreed that there is no "warmth" setting available with the VR09's overdrive and I'm still longing for a close-mic'd option to get more whoosh from the rotory. One of these days, I'll have to break down for a Burn or Vent pedal; the demos I've heard are just phenomenal. I really want to run stereo to simulate two mics on the horn, and need true by-pass when using non-organ tones. Does the Vent or Burn do that or have a mod available? I'll dive into the archives here to find those threads.

[DanL]

Brenner, the Vent is in stereo and has a full bypass.

[Craig MacDonald]

Brenner, don't bother digging into the other forum threads.. I have a Burn and I can answer your question.. YES the Burn has true stereo bypass, and it is a stereo effect..

 

The Burn is an awesome leslie sim and it's functionality is far superior to the competitive product (with it's midi + 32 presets, multiple leslie algorithms etc).. but one little word of warning.. I encountered a bit of midi noise on the audio output of the Burn when I hooked up my midi cable from the VR-09 to the Burn.. This could be just my unit, or the power in my studio (which has caused me a lot of issues in the past with ground loops etc).. that said, a DI should fix this, but I just haven't bothered to verify this.. you may not encounter this noise on your VR-09.

 

Anyway, to save you a bit of time.. you don't have to use midi on with your VR-09/Burn (you can select presets/bypass manually and plug a remote speed switch directly into the Burn if you want) but if you do use midi when connecting the VR-09 to the Burn, I believe that you can program the Burn to react automatically to registration changes and bypass automatically for non-organ registrations and automaticlly kick in for organ registrations.. similarly if you prefer to use some of the Burn's other effects on your other VR-09 sounds (eg phaser on an EP) you can program this too.. the Burn will also respond to leslie speed changes via midi from the VR-09, so if you choose to use the joystick or the D-Beam the Burn can be configured to respond accordingly to the midi output of the VR-09.. and last but not least the OS can be updated via midi, so you may see new algorithms or features for the Burn coming in the future.. BTW, Ken Hall, North American Crumar Tech Support guy) is selling a used but mint Burn right now.. if you want his email contact me off-line..

 

I really like my Burn, but I haven't used it much lately because I love the new leslie sim on the new Mojo update.. However, if I have some spare time, I'm going to pull the Burn out and play with it a bit over the next week or two.. I never really spent much time tuning the Burn for the VR-09 and this could be fun.. I'll provide an update for you if/when I get some time to do this.. maybe I can post some audio.

[Bastida]

Hello

 

try the BOSS RT-20,

[Six-string-man]

[quote=Craig MacDonald

The Burn is an awesome leslie sim and it's functionality is far superior to the competitive product (with it's midi + 32 presets, multiple leslie algorithms etc).

 

 

 

 

I would agree 100% about the functionality of the Burn, but don't discount the Ventilator.

 

It's very quick to set and use, just press a couple of buttons, and you are there. The sound is amazing, at least on a par with the Burn, and slightly better in some instances.

 

The new model is due out in June allegedly. I would be hard pressed if I had to choose between them, both are great in different ways.

 

 

SSM

[Craig MacDonald]

Hello

 

try the BOSS RT-20,

 

The RT-20 is not in the same league as the Burn or the Ventilator.. sorry.. and i think the internal VR-09 sim is superior to the RT-20 (it's actally a newer incarnation of the Roland leslie sim).

[Craig MacDonald]

SSM, don't get me started on this Burn vs Vent debate.. the mini-vent has limited functionality when compared to the Burn yet it is about the same price (and it's an $80 upgrade if you want a remote switch installed). The Vent II will likely be >$499 so way more expensive than the Burn and yet it still has limited algorithms and NO MIDI!

 

For some people, the Ventilator provides exactly the sound that they want, and they have no desire for the added features and functionality of the Burn.. they want "that" sound and as such, they are willing to pay the higher price, for this particular sound and the simplicity. However I don't expect that these people are VR-09 owners..! For the most part I don't think these types would ever consider a VR-09 because it's not authentic enough (whether it's the sound or the diving board keys or the percussion going through the C/V or whatever).

 

If you have a Ventilator, the Vent + VR-09 sounds great. However, if you're buying something new to ADD to the VR-09, the Burn just makes a lot more sense, if for no other reason than the ease of integration via midi. I'll see if I have time to add some Burn + VR-09 sound clips later this week.

[Six-string-man]

Craig, I agree with several of your points. I never mentioned the mini-vent in my post, I would not entertain it.

 

The vent is, IMHO, way overpriced, is less well specced, and the burn is almost certainly better value for money.

 

BUT........if you really need the Leslie 122 sound, in a small convenient box, the vent does exactly what it says on the tin.

 

Whether VR-09 users fall into this category of people, I have no way of knowing. I'm not suggesting that many folk would go out and buy a VR-09 + Ventilator, they would probably invest in a better keyboard if they had that amount of cash available.

 

However, it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that someone currently owning a VR-09 might be looking for a better Leslie sound/overdrive for their machine.

 

I'm just suggesting that the original Ventilator, or Ventilator II should not be dismissed out of hand, despite it's higher price. It is a great pedal.

 

Peace.

 

 

SSM

[Craig MacDonald]

SSM,

 

I think we are in agreement.. I own a Ventialtor, and I have used it with my VR-09, and it's a significant improvement on the VR-09's leslie sim and overdrive (I've posted clips of this on my soundcloud page). However, I also have a Burn and I understand how easily the Burn will integrate with the VR-09, and how much more the Burn has to offer as far as midi, multiple algorithms, real tube overdrive, presets, other effects etc. etc..

 

If you want to improve your leslie and overdrive sound on your VR-09, the Burn is the obvious choice for the typical value conscious VR-09 owner. The VR-09 itself is a very versatile, keyboard, high function and low cost! The exact same can be said for the Burn, it's a very versatile effect pedal and it too has very high functionality at a very reasonable cost. A perfect match.

 

If you happen to be using your VR-09 in a 3 piece jazz organ ensemble (which I highly doubt is the case), you may prefer a ventilator for it's 122 emulation, but if that was the case I would probably recommend that you save your money and invest in a better quality clone.

[brenner13]

Hello

 

try the BOSS RT-20,

 

The RT-20 is not in the same league as the Burn or the Ventilator.. sorry.. and i think the internal VR-09 sim is superior to the RT-20 (it's actally a newer incarnation of the Roland leslie sim).

 

I have an RT-20 and actually prefer the VR09's internal sim even though it is not quite as pronounced of an effect. As I recall, the overdrive on the RT20 is just as touchy as the VR's if not even more...too crunchy too soon. I have had great use of the RT20 for many years gigging and it tremendously helped the organ tones in my SY77 and EX5. The VR09 has such a great organ tone already, there is no need to disguise it with the RT20 that is required with those other non-clone boards. Both the Vent and the Burn seem to be much better Leslie sims and from what I've heard, should enhance the VR's sound. However, I'll have too hook up the RT20 again to refresh my memory of the experience and see if it is worth running extra cables just for a few songs of a gig.

 

Thanks to you both, Craig and SixStringMan, for your input and polite debate. This provides great insight to both of these pedals...so many toys, so little time, but sure am having a blast!

[Six-string-man]

I have a Burn, and I love it. I am waiting (impatiently) for the Ventilator II to be released.

 

In the meantime, I have borrowed an original Ventilator from a friend. He keeps asking for it back, and one day, I will definitely return it.

 

The thing I love about the external sims is that you can use them on any board. So far, I have used them on the Nord Electro 4 (huge improvement), the Hammond SK1 (noticeable improvement) and the Crumar Mojo (slight improvement).

 

All IMHO of course, others may have different ideas. It's a great comfort to know that whatever keyboard I use in the future, I'll always have a couple of great sims to plug in.

 

 

SSM

[Six-string-man]

SSM,

 

I think we are in agreement..

 

 

 

 

SSM

 

 

 

 

[Six-string-man]

 

 

Thanks to you both, Craig and SixStringMan, for your input and polite debate. This provides great insight to both of these pedals.

 

 

Thanks for that brenner13. It's very unlike me to have a polite debate! It normally gets heated (but stays friendly, I hope).

 

Craig & I have talked/argued about the merits of the Burn and Vent a few times now, and I have to say, he has strong opinions, but really knows his stuff.

 

I can respect that.

 

 

SSM

[zxcvbnm098]

"In the meantime, I have borrowed an original Ventilator from a friend. He keeps asking for it back, and one day, I will definitely return it."

 

Note to self: no lending of gear to Six-string-man......

[Bastida]

Hello

 

 

the KC-880 have a nice rotary simulator

[Six-string-man]

"In the meantime, I have borrowed an original Ventilator from a friend. He keeps asking for it back, and one day, I will definitely return it."

 

Note to self: no lending of gear to Six-string-man......

 

 

 

I'm not usually as bad as this, honestly. He said to drop it round to him "when you've got a minute", and I've been busy lately!

 

Anyway, you've shamed me into it. I just rang him, and have arranged to meet him tomorrow lunchtime, to buy him a couple of drinks, and give him his Ventilator back. He can't complain too much, I loaned him an overdrive to test out last year, and he had it for nearly six months.

 

We're good mates - still!

 

 

SSM

 

 

 

 

[HAMEGZ]

Hello

 

 

the KC-880 have a nice rotary simulator

 

ANYTHING with KC in the front of it deserves a chainsaw

[Craig MacDonald]

Hello

 

 

the KC-880 have a nice rotary simulator

 

ANYTHING with KC in the front of it deserves a chainsaw

 

I'm going to add my thoughts to this too.. I owned a KC-880 and it made for a nice seat to sit on when I was in a very small venue.. but that's about it.. and it's rotary sim is not particularly good (when compared to any of todays current rotary sims).. sorry to keep busing your chops Bastida!!! I think that the VR-09 rotary sim is the best version of the Roland sim that has been made available to date, and that includes any iteration of it.. (pedals, amp effects, or internal sims).. Suggesting an RT-20 or the KC-880 as an alternative to the VR-09 internal sim is like trading something that is OK for something that is mediocre.. (on my scale OK is just a bit better than mediocre)... in other words going from the VR-09 sim to an RT-20 or the KC-880 built in sim will NOT be an improvement.

 

Just my 2 cents worth, but I have owned all of the aforementioned equipment.

 

Edit: just to be clear, the VK8/m have better amp sims, if you include amp sims as part of the leslie effect, one might argue that the VK8/m sim is better.. In my mind I tend to think of them separately.. I like the VR-09 animation better (sense of motion, and Doppler effect), but I think the VK8/m amp sims/overdrive is better.. However overall I prefer the VR-09.

[zxcvbnm098]

"Anyway, you've shamed me into it. I just rang him, and have arranged to meet him tomorrow lunchtime, to buy him a couple of drinks, and give him his Ventilator back. He can't complain too much, I loaned him an overdrive to test out last year, and he had it for nearly six months."

 

SSM, I was totally busting your chops, but all in good fun.... The way it was written struck me as humorous....

[Six-string-man]

 

SSM, I was totally busting your chops, but all in good fun.... The way it was written struck me as humorous....

 

 

I took it in fun, but in all honesty, it WAS time that I got it back to him!

 

It's all good.

 

 

SSM

[killerddt]

Piano / Korg vs Roland vs YAMAHA vs Nord

 

Include Korg Pa-900 & Korg Kronos X .

 

[scameron]

I was suprised that the pa900 sounded that good on the video...i have one have never gotten a great a/piano sound...I usually use my moxf8 for electric and piano...but the roland vr09 was surprising on the blind examples..just goes to show you there are amazing samples from many sources in today's music business...steve

[Craig MacDonald]

I have to agree the VR-09 sounded quite good first time through, it was one of my favourites.. however, I was listening on an iPad.. I'll listen to it again today in my studio, but I'll know which is which..

 

Thanks for posting killerddt..!

[Six-string-man]

I'm pretty amazed here, I'm normally a Yammie fan, but in the blind test, my favourites were the Kronos and the two Rolands.

 

I'm assuming that the test used the default settings, and things may have been different with alternative pianos, but still, it makes you think.

 

 

SSM

[AnotherScott]

I'm pretty amazed here, I'm normally a Yammie fan, but in the blind test, my favourites were the Kronos and the two Rolands.

 

I'm assuming that the test used the default settings, and things may have been different with alternative pianos, but still, it makes you think.

Yeah, I'm curious about which piano sounds he used, on those instruments that offer a choice. Out of his samples, I liked the Nord best, which didn't surprise me. But I was surprised that I liked Roland 2nd best. I didn't like the Kronos at all... which again goes to show how subjective so much of this is.

[jcazzy]

The VR-09 sounds pretty good. Good enough that I may invest in one to be my lower board on gigs that I don't need the full compliment of keys I have. I'll need it less for the organ parts than anything else as I will still use the Hammond XL-1c I have for that, although I can see it as a backup if needed.

 

One thing I need to find out and I think I have asked this question of Craig before but can't remember. (anyone can answer this) Is the key touch anything like a Roland GAIA and can the velocity sensitivity be turned off while in synth mode? Very important to me as I'm old school and ARP Odyssey raised.

 

I've read about some of the quirks of this board and such but in a scaled down situation I can put up with that. Very few songs we do, in the classic rock band I play, will need splits or layers although I can imagine a few. This board may fit my needs.

 

Thanks!