Roland V-Combo VR-09

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I bought a PC361 while on the closeout sale (already had PC3 & PC3X) and use it for my church gig, along with a PC2. I sold my Electro 3 73 about the same time. Either board could benefit with a Ventilator. However, after a bit of adjusting (mostly slowing the fast Leslies a bit and changing the windup/wind-down times), the organ sounds are good enough for the purpose. The excellence of the other sounds works very well for me (and I can do testing on any of the three if I want to work something out).

 

There are literally hundreds of adjustments for the KB3 Leslies. I do mean plural, some of the Leslie emulations are 122A, some 145, some the later units, varying distortion. You can change the virtual mic placement, speeds, and a LOT of parameters.

 

Having said that, the instrument does have a learning curve for Editing. (It does help that a LOT of the sounds just like they come, especially with the adjustment provided by the sliders, don't really need editing.

 

I can't give a comparison, I've never seen nor played the VR-09. But - I would not have bought the third PC3 machine if I wasn't pleased with the sound. YMMV - some people don't like the board.

 

[niacin]

WTF is it with these demos where they just pull out the first 4 drawbars. I can get that sound with a f#^*ing rompler. He did get rid of some of the fast leslie beating by tweaking the speed slightly, so that's promising. But honestly, can't someone do 860000000 and 800000008 and 008500000 and maybe mess with the top 3 drawbars a la Caravanserai, and just hold a chord and switch the leslie speed and the chorus settings and the drive and give us some idea of how the thing is really going to sound on an organ gig.

 

 

Organ stuff at 7:42:

 

[video:youtube]

[Craig MacDonald]

Based on this demo it really seems fairly tweakable... For anyone who is interested, the ipad editor app is available.. I downloaded it to see if there was hidden surprises.. there were none, I was particularly interested in the combo organ editor (or how the editor would change when you hit the combo button) and it's still the same old Hammond style interface and the drawbars just chance to correspond to different types of waves and harmonics.. Not being a combo organ fan I can't tell you off-hand which combo these settings correspond to (vox/farfisa etc) or what.. (or maybe it's a composite set up?).. If anyone can download this app and figure out what combo the editor screen is emulating I would appreciate that.

 

Niacin, I agree with you.. you seldom hear a good organ demo on one of these demo videos.. hold a chord/note and go through the various C/V's, percussion soft/loud 2nd/3rd harmonic played across the keyboard.. typical drawbar registrations, leslie speed change/up down with various registrations etc.. and inevitably when they hit the overdrive button it goes from 0-10 immediately, no subtle/tasteful OD like you're probably going to use it. It's certainly very annoying!

[aellison62]

Thanks Moody Blues Keys, that helps. I now know the PC361 organ is highly editable.

[aellison62]

Here is a newer video featuring better organ demo. Scroll down on right to #4 video.

 

http://www.roland.com/video/page.cfm?id=405678319002

[Josh Paxton]

Ever see an instrument that you really wanted to like, but your ears just wouldn't let you? For me, this is one of those. The only time I could see using it would be for a cover band gig that I absolutely didn't care about, where all I wanted was to bring the most minimal rig I could possibly manage, with no regard for quality beyond "Is it good enough to get the drunk idiots cheering and dancing?" And while I've certainly done my share of those gigs, I'm now trying to get away from them, so I don't see one of these in my future.

[Adan]

The only time I could see using it would be for a cover band gig that I absolutely didn't care about, where all I wanted was to bring the most minimal rig I could possibly manage, with no regard for quality beyond "Is it good enough to get the drunk idiots cheering and dancing?"

 

I was gonna say, I've made a lot of money this way. If you can get 'er done with a thousand bucks and 12 lbs of rig, you might think of that as coming out ahead in the game.

[HammondDave]

The only time I could see using it would be for a cover band gig that I absolutely didn't care about, where all I wanted was to bring the most minimal rig I could possibly manage, with no regard for quality beyond "Is it good enough to get the drunk idiots cheering and dancing?"

 

I was gonna say, I've made a lot of money this way. If you can get 'er done with a thousand bucks and 12 lbs of rig, you might think of that as coming out ahead in the game.

 

If thats the case, why play the gig at all?

[kanker.]

The only time I could see using it would be for a cover band gig that I absolutely didn't care about, where all I wanted was to bring the most minimal rig I could possibly manage, with no regard for quality beyond "Is it good enough to get the drunk idiots cheering and dancing?"

 

I was gonna say, I've made a lot of money this way. If you can get 'er done with a thousand bucks and 12 lbs of rig, you might think of that as coming out ahead in the game.

 

If thats the case, why play the gig at all?

$$$$?

[kanker.]

Alternately:

 

How much does the gig pay?

[HammondDave]

And if it pays well enough to spend your time doing it... Why not play it using the best instrument possible?

[Craig MacDonald]

And if it pays well enough to spend your time doing it... Why not play it using the best instrument possible?

 

Dave not every gig pays really well!! Does that mean I don't play it? Personally I would prefer to play it and perhaps compromise on the equipment I bring!

 

We all play for the love of music, but also the cash obviously, if for no other reason than to fuel our GAS. I enjoy playing whether it's a large corporate venue for $500 each or a filler gig at a local bar $75 each. However, do I want to drag out my $7000 Mojo + Kronos +2QSC rig for $75...? No way, for that cash it's hardly worth taking the chance on something getting damaged. Would I play the same gig with a VR-09 that's worth $999.. you bet? If I'm playing a great club that pays well, I wouldn't compromise, they would get the best I can afford. But for a small venue or a low paying job, I would definately compromise on the equipment I bring.

 

Let's not forget that everything other than a real Hammond B3 is a compromise to some extent, and there are various reasons for that compromise, size and weight being a key factor.. life is full of compromises and if I can get close to my ideal sound with a 12 pound, $999 keyboard, why the hell not! Over the years, I have been complemented on my sound and my playing with virtually every iteration of Hammond Clone I've ever used from my first Bx3 and Hammond XM1 right up to the Mojo I perform with today.. Something tells me that it's not going to stop if I was to make a compromise and perform the odd small gig with this VR-09.

 

[AnotherScott]

I enjoy playing whether it's a large corporate venue for $500 each or a filler gig at a local bar $75 each. However, do I want to drag out my $7000 Mojo + Kronos +2QSC rig for $75...? No way, for that cash it's hardly worth taking the chance on something getting damaged.

Funny, sometimes I find it's the reverse... cheap gigs where I want to bring out the best rig... because it's only the cheap gigs where I get to play all the prog or original stuff, and that's when I want all the gear! The good paying gigs? Two boards is plenty. ;-)

[HammondDave]

And if it pays well enough to spend your time doing it... Why not play it using the best instrument possible?

 

Dave not every gig pays really well!! Does that mean I don't play it? Personally I would prefer to play it and perhaps compromise on the equipment I bring!

 

We all play for the love of music, but also the cash obviously, if for no other reason than to fuel our GAS. I enjoy playing whether it's a large corporate venue for $500 each or a filler gig at a local bar $75 each. However, do I want to drag out my $7000 Mojo + Kronos +2QSC rig for $75...? No way, for that cash it's hardly worth taking the chance on something getting damaged. Would I play the same gig with a VR-09 that's worth $999.. you bet? If I'm playing a great club that pays well, I wouldn't compromise, they would get the best I can afford. But for a small venue or a low paying job, I would definately compromise on the equipment I bring.

 

Let's not forget that everything other than a real Hammond B3 is a compromise to some extent, and there are various reasons for that compromise, size and weight being a key factor.. life is full of compromises and if I can get close to my ideal sound with a 12 pound, $999 keyboard, why the hell not! Over the years, I have been complemented on my sound and my playing with virtually every iteration of Hammond Clone I've ever used from my first Bx3 and Hammond XM1 right up to the Mojo I perform with today.. Something tells me that it's not going to stop if I was to make a compromise and perform the odd small gig with this VR-09.

 

Hate to break it to you, Craig... But most of the people in clubs who rave about how great the sound is on a VK7, XK3... And certainly the VK09 can't tell the difference between a B3 and an accordion. What they are raving about is your playing.

 

They don't know that you are compromising..., but you do....

 

 

[Adan]

And if it pays well enough to spend your time doing it... Why not play it using the best instrument possible?

 

Dave not every gig pays really well!! Does that mean I don't play it? Personally I would prefer to play it and perhaps compromise on the equipment I bring!

 

We all play for the love of music, but also the cash obviously, if for no other reason than to fuel our GAS. I enjoy playing whether it's a large corporate venue for $500 each or a filler gig at a local bar $75 each. However, do I want to drag out my $7000 Mojo + Kronos +2QSC rig for $75...? No way, for that cash it's hardly worth taking the chance on something getting damaged. Would I play the same gig with a VR-09 that's worth $999.. you bet? If I'm playing a great club that pays well, I wouldn't compromise, they would get the best I can afford. But for a small venue or a low paying job, I would definately compromise on the equipment I bring.

 

Let's not forget that everything other than a real Hammond B3 is a compromise to some extent, and there are various reasons for that compromise, size and weight being a key factor.. life is full of compromises and if I can get close to my ideal sound with a 12 pound, $999 keyboard, why the hell not! Over the years, I have been complemented on my sound and my playing with virtually every iteration of Hammond Clone I've ever used from my first Bx3 and Hammond XM1 right up to the Mojo I perform with today.. Something tells me that it's not going to stop if I was to make a compromise and perform the odd small gig with this VR-09.

 

Hate to break it to you, Craig... But most of the people in clubs who rave about how great the sound is on a VK7, XK3... And certainly the VK09 can't tell the difference between a B3 and an accordion. What they are raving about is your playing.

 

They don't know that you are compromising..., but you do....

 

 

You are one contrary-wise fellow, Dave. It's always entertaining, and occasionally useful.

[Ekewaka]

I take a Squire VM 77 to bar gigs, paid $190 as a used one, it sounds good and I don't take a Fender MIA one for crappy bar gigs of many reasons -- anyone done bar gigs know why. Same with an Yamaha XF, I would not take such an instrument to bar gigs. In addition, anyone who has done such gigs know about the limited space available for keyboard players. VR-09 size-wise would be good.

 

Also, if you really want high fidelity sound, even a Nord will not cut it without a 20k PA system for getting full fidelity, which I doubt many bar bands are interested to get.

[niacin]

Can anyone who has downloaded the iPad app tell me about the effects routing? Say I set up a synth bass/organ split can I route the organ through Overdrive and into the Rotary effect, and route the synth bass through the Compressor? Or are the effects 'global' in the sense that every sound is routed through all the effects from left to right? Or how does the routing work?

[Craig MacDonald]

Can anyone who has downloaded the iPad app tell me about the effects routing? Say I set up a synth bass/organ split can I route the organ through Overdrive and into the Rotary effect, and route the synth bass through the Compressor? Or are the effects 'global' in the sense that every sound is routed through all the effects from left to right? Or how does the routing work?

 

Niacin, I have downloaded the iPad editor and you can't tell the way the effects work from the editor.. in fact other than tweaking the leslie fast/slow/acceleration parameters and type I/II there are no editable effects on the organ or the synth editor pages. All we can do at this point is assume or speculate since the manuals are not available.. However, the brochure states the following:

 

"Effects (7 systems always on / global control): Overdrive Tone Compressor Multi-effects: 20 types Delay: 6 types Reverb: 6 types Rotary: 2 types"

 

I get the impression that the effect routing is pretty flexible, and it is being billed as a "live performance" keyboard, with 6 dedicated knobs for adjusting effects live... overdrive, tone, compressor, MFX, Delay and Reverb. Whether you can adjust these effects independantly for two different sounds at the same time, and how the effects are routed in the VR-09 is a bit of a mystery right now.

[niacin]

Thanks Craig, appreciate the info, I did download the brochure and am keeping an eye on Roland's site for the manual to be posted. I'm pretty much ready to preorder one, but there's a few issues like this that will be deal-breakers if they're not implemented properly. Thanks for the quick response.

[garnermike]

Got the answer to my question re: Ipad tweaking-- directly from Roland. See below:

 

Question:

Am considering buying a vr-09 when it's available. I see that the rotary effect is tweakable via an Ipad. Two questions:

-Is that rotary effect ONLY tweakable with use of an Ipad? That is, will the rotary effect be tweakable WITHOUT an Ipad?

-If it is only tweakable with an IPad, can the Ipad tweeking be saved to the VR-09's memory, such that one doesn't necessarily have to own an Ipad but can borrow one, thern tweek the rotary effect sound, then save that tweeked sound within the VR-09, and then return the borrowed Ipad to its owner?

 

Answer:

Roger H.

Roland Corporation U.S.

Hello Michael,

Yes, you can change the settings for the rotary effect directly on the VR-09. There is no need to use the iPad editor if you do not want to.

Sincerely,

Roland US Product Support

 

[Nicky]

Can anyone confirm if you can "brake" the leslie? There is no physical button on the keybd for this as far as I can tell.

[HSS]

Can anyone confirm if you can "brake" the leslie? There is no physical button on the keybd for this as far as I can tell.

The VR-09 is getting even more interesting as more info leaks out, especially at its price point relative to other B3 emulators (e.g. NEs, SKs, etc.).

[hoggernick]

The VR-09's organs (per the video that aellison62 referenced) sound very similar, if not exactly like, the ones on my 12-yr old VK-8. My only complaint about the VK-8 organs is the leslie sim, and a vent would probably do wonders for a VK-8. The VR-09's other sounds (AP, EP, clav) are light years beyond the VK-8. At $999, the VR-09 seems like a steal to me. I can't imagine a single VK-8 ever selling again once this hits the market.

 

I agree with niacin about the organ demos - I wish they'd put a larger variety of drawbar combinations and styles into the demos. I'm pretty sure the VR-09 supports 3 separate organ parts, each with its own drawbar settings (upper, lower, pedal). Roland makes a very nice MIDI pedal board - Why not sit a real organ player down with a VR-09, some other 61-key controller MIDI'd in, Roland floor pedals connected to the "PK-IN" port on the VR-09, plug a Roland expression pedal into the "Exp In" for volume, and turn the organ player loose? Granted, the cheapest pedals (PK-6) are only $100 cheaper than the VR-09 keyboard. Still though, show us what it can do!

[niacin]

Wish they'd just get John Medeski in and let him put it through it's paces, it'd take all of about 10 minutes and we'd know where it can go soundwise.

[Josh Paxton]

This is just a hunch, but I suspect Medeski would consider that a waste of 10 minutes of his life (plus travel time, setup, etc.), and would be less than inclined to indulge such a request.

[niacin]

Lol, yeh, 10 minutes he wouldn't get back. Hell if they'd just send one to me I'd do my best impression. It just bemuses me that you get guys like Joey D and Dr Lonnie Smith and other jazz greats doing organ demos for Studiologic and Hammond-Suzuki, but of course their style of playing doesn't involve constantly tweaking drawbars the way Medeski does, it's generally just set and forget, so it demonstrates little about the sound of the board and lots about how they can blow, but buying the board isn't going to get me Joey's chops, so what's the point?

[AnotherScott]

but buying the board isn't going to get me Joey's chops, so what's the point?

Shhhh! That's the part you're not supposed to figure out!

[The_Star_Guy]

Hi, Everyone!

 

The VR-09 Owner's Manual, Voice List and Editor App Manual are now available in PDF format on the Roland Support website http://www.rolandus.com/support/owners_manuals/ .

 

There are also additional support videos available for the VR-09 on You Tube on the Roland Support Channel at

.

 

 

[niacin]

Thanks. From the manual:

"If youre playing two sounds (split or dual) (p. 27), the settings will determine which sound is affected.

When using Dual: The same effects will apply to both sounds.

When using Split: The effects will be applied only to the upper part (except for reverb). However if youve assigned organ sound to the lower

part, the same effects will apply to all parts."

 

So if you wondered what was cut, given the price point, there it is. Phased Rhodes and Hammond? No. RH piano LH Hammond? Not unless you like your piano Leslified. Wah Clav and Hammond. Sorry, no can do. And the manual has no MIDI spec. So I have no idea what the drawbars transmit in the way of CC#s/HEX.

 

[To B3]

Thanks. From the manual:

"If youre playing two sounds (split or dual) (p. 27), the settings will determine which sound is affected.

When using Dual: The same effects will apply to both sounds.

When using Split: The effects will be applied only to the upper part (except for reverb). However if youve assigned organ sound to the lower

part, the same effects will apply to all parts."

 

So if you wondered what was cut, given the price point, there it is. Phased Rhodes and Hammond? No. RH piano LH Hammond? Not unless you like your piano Leslified. Wah Clav and Hammond. Sorry, no can do. And the manual has no MIDI spec. So I have no idea what the drawbars transmit in the way of CC#s/HEX.

 

That's what caught my atention too. Big, big miss, IMHO even at this price point. Question is: can this kind of thing be corrected with an OS update or is it something deeper than that? I thought the effects that would be applied to each side of a split could be selected simply by highlighting on the display the sound that you want them applied, using the up and down arrows. But Roland didn't think so... Still want to play it when it's available, but very disapointed at this "little-big" mistake...