Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Ken Beaumont]

Since the drawbars also control the synth parameters and layer levels plus the use of the ipad editors, I would expect them to use midi CC. Until we get a manual online I wouldn't be real sure about them using sysex.

[AnotherScott]

Since the drawbars also control the synth parameters and layer levels plus the use of the ipad editors, I would expect them to use midi CC. Until we get a manual online I wouldn't be real sure about them using sysex.

I hope you're right, that would be a nice benefit in overall usability. (And it's not like it's more expensive for them to use CC than sysex!)

[Josh Paxton]

Anyone who has done bar gigs knows what's going on 1am in tight places. Especially at jams with unsure people bringing up beer on-stage...

 

That's one of the main reasons I haven't yet written off this board as a potential purchase. Somewhere upthread I said the only thing I could see myself using it for would be cover band gigs where the sound just needs to be "good enough" to get drunk tourists pumping their fists. While I'm trying to phase those gigs out of my life, it looks like I'll be doing a few of them for a while longer. For those gigs I'm currently using a Nord Stage 2, which is way better than this board in almost every respect. So why would I want to downgrade? Because for some of those gigs, having a board that's 5 inches shorter and 9 pounds lighter would be advantageous. And I'd be less concerned about someone spilling a drink on my $999 Roland than my $3600 Nord. As for the "inspiration factor," it would certainly be way less... but when you're playing the world's most uninspiring gig to begin with, that ceases to be an issue.

[kanker.]

However, there are so many cases where a lightweight and cheap clone with additional benefits is good.

 

You may have coined a phrase there: "clone with benefits."

That is pretty good...

[voxpops]

As for the "inspiration factor," it would certainly be way less... but when you're playing the world's most uninspiring gig to begin with, that ceases to be an issue.

That sounds so jaded and miserable!

[Ekewaka]

However, there are so many cases where a lightweight and cheap clone with additional benefits is good.

 

You may have coined a phrase there: "clone with benefits."

That is pretty good...

 

I like it myself. Consider is © copyrighted now.

[Ekewaka]

As for the "inspiration factor," it would certainly be way less... but when you're playing the world's most uninspiring gig to begin with, that ceases to be an issue.

That sounds so jaded and miserable!

 

I like playing any instrument, even grandmother's harmonium, so that's not for me not an excuse to do a bad gig.

 

Back to VR-09. Hard to talk about it as I have yet to put my fingers on one but I hope the built-in synthesizer section is the positive surprise, for me.

[allan_evett]

Anyone who has done bar gigs knows what's going on 1am in tight places. Especially at jams with unsure people bringing up beer on-stage...

 

That's one of the main reasons I haven't yet written off this board as a potential purchase. Somewhere upthread I said the only thing I could see myself using it for would be cover band gigs where the sound just needs to be "good enough" to get drunk tourists pumping their fists. While I'm trying to phase those gigs out of my life, it looks like I'll be doing a few of them for a while longer. For those gigs I'm currently using a Nord Stage 2, which is way better than this board in almost every respect. So why would I want to downgrade? Because for some of those gigs, having a board that's 5 inches shorter and 9 pounds lighter would be advantageous. And I'd be less concerned about someone spilling a drink on my $999 Roland than my $3600 Nord. As for the "inspiration factor," it would certainly be way less... but when you're playing the world's most uninspiring gig to begin with, that ceases to be an issue.

 

Stage space and other gig variables are important. I have no problem schlepping a hefty, full rig, and loading it in and out. But when stage space, set up constraints, and audience participation 'issues' come into play (especially low, or 'floor' stages), my Kronos 88 and Stage 2 76 stay at home. My smaller, less expensive 'boards both have a few compromises - with the interface, and to a lesser extent the sound engine - not unlike the VR-09. But two factors mitigate that somewhat: 1) creative, user adjustment (something with which we're all familiar), and the fact the audience typically doesn't pick up on the differences between a touring grade rig, and a small bar rig.

 

That said, I'll still take my better stuff into a small room; I'd rather play piano on a weighted 88, and have a top-notch clonewheel engine. But that small room would need to have a halfway pro stage for that idea to work; sometimes that happens, other times I adjust the tools for the job.

[Josh Paxton]

As for the "inspiration factor," it would certainly be way less... but when you're playing the world's most uninspiring gig to begin with, that ceases to be an issue.

That sounds so jaded and miserable!

 

I started to reply to this, but my reply would totally derail the thread. So instead I gave it its own thread.

[niacin]

Since the drawbars also control the synth parameters and layer levels plus the use of the ipad editors, I would expect them to use midi CC. Until we get a manual online I wouldn't be real sure about them using sysex.

 

The manual is online, there's a link earlier in this thread, it includes neither midi message nor sysex information, so unless someone contacts Roland we'll just have wait until it shows up in the stores.

[brenner13]

Ordered one from Sweetwater immediately after viewing Mr. Fortner's NAMM youtube vid last month. 12 lbs...whoop whoop...and battery power...can't wait to throw this behind my neck while flailing away on a solo...he,he,he. Or maybe I sicken the stomachs of all the organ purists and attach a couple of guitar strap nodes for a makeshift keytar...ah-HA!

[HammondDave]

Ordered one from Sweetwater immediately after viewing Mr. Fortner's NAMM youtube vid last month. 12 lbs...whoop whoop...and battery power...can't wait to throw this behind my neck while flailing away on a solo...he,he,he. Or maybe I sicken the stomachs of all the organ purists and attach a couple of guitar strap nodes for a makeshift keytar...ah-HA!

 

 

Blasphemy!

[brenner13]

Egad! Just noticed there's no arpeggiator. OUCH! How are we to do any Who covers?

[kanker.]

Who who?

[Michael Wright]

Who who?

VooDoo!

[Ekewaka]

Lack of arpeggiator, well you could play an extremely right arpeggio run with your fingers and loop it. Old school meets new school.

 

[Josh Paxton]

Apologies if this has been covered, but has there been an approximate ship date announced for this yet? That is, more specific than "probably April"?

[eric]

Apologies if this has been covered, but has there been an approximate ship date announced for this yet? That is, more specific than "probably April"?

 

Maybe May

[Ekewaka]

Musiciansfriend now says May 10, seems it's delayed.

[Craig MacDonald]

I have one on order up here in Canada, and I was told April, and the Roland Rep was in to my local music store on Saturday last Saturday demoing the VR-09 and the RD-64 and he didn't back off the delivery date..

 

SO.. I'm still optimistic that I'll take delivery in April.. but rumours often have some basis in fact.. so we'll see.

[Craig MacDonald]

Just a quick update and sorry for not doing this earlier. I had an opportunity to play the VR-09 last Saturday, not for an extended period of time but long enough to form some initial impressions..

 

So first of all, it really seems like great value.. a VK organ engine GX pianos, and a Juno style synth built in for $999 is an incredible amount of sonic power.

 

VK engine.. first thing that the roland rep said was that it wasn't the VB8 engine it was the VK7 engine.. then he backed off a bit, and said that the engineers had some discussions about this and decided that they preferred the grit of the VK7 over the VK8, and his impression was that this was more VK7 based. Either way it still sounds like a VK engine to me.. not my favourite.. I had high hopes for the new Twin Rotary effect (which is supposed to simulate 2 leslies) and it didn't work at all for me it just sounds like a single leslie with some kind of chorus on it. However, the basic leslie sim seemed better. I was listening to the VR-09 through very small nearfield monitors so it's a bit hard to imagine how it will sound at volume through an amp, PA or a pair of QSC K10's (which I use). So the jury is out on the organ.. I am pretty fussy about my organ sounds and I don't expect to love it, but I expect it will be "workable".

 

The Pianos are all based on Rolands top "sampled" pianos which are from the GX piano line, and they sound GREAT! I've never been a big fan of Roland Pianos, but these do sound suprisingly good for such an inexpensive instrument. The synth sounds really fat, and others will know more about this synth than I do, but it seems to have the Juno architecture, and it realy does sound great (I didn't spend any time on this).

 

Loop mode.. bullshit waste of time..

 

Live performance... clearly this thing is designed for live performance, and by that they seem to mean that in the middle of a song you take a piano solo and you turn your acoustic piano into a wailing synth, and back again.. That seems to be the focus of many of the product demos.. personally I tend to start an song with one piano sound and end with one piano sound so I don't see myself using these live features (or the pooper looper).. I would have preferred the synth to have a setlist feature, rather than the looper/live effects section.. that would have been more valuable to me.

 

All in all, great sound, great value.. the keyboard and buttons are not as substantial as higher end synths, but you get what you pay for, and lighter buttons, knobs etc doesn't necessarily mean lower quality.. only time will tell..

 

Great entry level all in one, with better than entry level sound!

[HammondDave]

"but you get what you pay for, and lighter buttons, knobs etc doesn't necessarily mean lower quality.."

 

It usually does....

[Craig MacDonald]

"but you get what you pay for, and lighter buttons, knobs etc doesn't necessarily mean lower quality.."

 

It usually does....

 

I'm not going to disagree with you Dave, but I would prefer to wait and see rather than making assumptions like this.. I worked at a large music store up here in Canada for a couple of years, and during that time we had all the low end roland Juno series on display, and because they were the low end price point they were all positioned out front and nice and low so they would get lot's of "play" and they did.. they were turned on for 12 hours a day, and played by a lot of amateur "wanna be" rockstars, and banged on by little kids who's parents were paying no attention (which pissed me off to no end).. and you know what, we never had a failure with any of them.. at least not while I was there.. so that's why I'm taking a wait and see attitude!!

 

I've got one on order, and trust me you'll hear about it if I have any problems with it..!

[hoggernick]

Dave sticking to his guns on this has been great, and made for a pretty interesting thread. I've bought my share of crap over the decades, but I've also bought a few quality pieces of gear. The well-built ones last, the cheap disposable ones don't.

 

My Roland VK-8 was built like a tank, and didn't cost much more than the VR-09. I think I paid $1500 for it about a decade ago. It survived a lighting truss falling on it, though the leslie "break" switch is kinda wonky now. That same truss cracked the bass player's head, it took stitches to get him right again (assuming there's such a thing as "right" for a bass player). I doubt that an all-plastic keyboard would have survived that incident.

 

And then there's the action - the VK-8's waterfall keys are very very fun to play. I wish I had a 76-key controller with a keybed that nice. The keys/action on the <$200 controllers that seem to have flooded the market - they're just awful. They make loud noises when doing organ "rakes", they always feel like they're on the verge of falling apart.

 

Folks on a very tight budget of course don't always have the option of buying high end stuff, but Dave's fighting the good fight here I think. After giving this a lot of thought, I'm feeling the need to support and promote quality gear. Just about everyone would be better off if they saved a tad longer, spent a bit more on quality gear, and sent upstream the message "we want quality gear".

[Adan]

I've been buying keyboards and hauling them around to gigs for decades, both the high end and the cheap stuff, and it's kind of amazing to me how little trouble I've had with anything malfunctioning or breaking. The biggest headaches I ever had were with the mechanical parts of the many rhodes I've owned, and the wonky electronics of the Hammond chop I used in the late 90's. Because these budget boards look and feel cheap, it's easy to think they're susceptible to breaking, and yet experience (mine, at least) doesn't bear that out.

[David Emm]

 

>>> 12 pound keyboards feel and play like 12 pound keyboards... And they usually have serious compromises in their build quality and interfaces in order to reach that 12 pounds. To me, it's not worth it... The keyboard and playing surface is critical to me.

 

Amen to that, but its old news to me. Back when, I played a Casio CZ-101, but virtually NEVER from its own keys. It was controlled from a Korg DW8000, as an outboard module, because the 'keyboard' was just a flimsy set of switches. Good synth, cheesy build.

 

Its a shame that this VR seems to need the same TLC; it undermines the otherwise grab-it-and-go design. Still, I'll bet there's a fun rig waiting to happen when someone uses a 61+-key controller to run the VR and a couple of synths. It might even be tolerably portable.

 

Actual keyboard quality has become too much of an issue. I don't have to ask if any of you would pay an added $30+ retail to have a keyboard mechanism that didn't say "CHEESE" when played.

 

 

 

[hoggernick]

The biggest headaches I ever had were with the mechanical parts of the many rhodes I've owned.

Hah - I almost added the Rhodes as one example of long-lasting quality. My suitcase is just a couple of years shy of 40 years old, and still going strong. It seems indestructible. I've had a hell of a time keeping wurlitzers playing though.

[David Emm]

 

>>> I'm not sure that it really has anything to do with big company vs small company.. it's more about the design point and the target market.

 

I was contrasting the VR with the Hammond SK-1. The GUIs look VERY similar and the basic compliment of means such as piano options likewise. Most of what matters will be how the VR holds up under use. I'm curious as to how that thousand-dollar difference between the two plays out. The Hammond is clearly the more "serious" purist-type tool, so I'm interested in the makeup of the group outside that specific realm. It may end up being seen as a convenient chameleon more than an organ. If these had been available to Vangelis in the 70s-80s, he would have owned four of them.

 

 

[Ekewaka]

...as for wear-and-tear, I'm no expert but it's mostly during transportation bad things happen, or up on stage when someone by mistake causes equipment to drop. I never had a keyboard I've played to pieces, cheap or expensive.

 

As for transportation, good cases. As for accidents on stage, avoid bands with drunk musicians on-stage....

[Josh Paxton]

Craig, thanks for the review. What was your opinion on the EP sounds?