Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Ken Beaumont]

If organ were a big part of my sound, I would want the best available. For the 3 to 5 songs where I use some organ this would be fine for me. But if I were you Dave or Jim Alfredson, I would want the very best Hammond sound available and this isn't it.

 

I'm just a little confused why they left out the arpeggiator on the synth engine

[HammondDave]

Craig... Check out my post in the back surgery thread.... If your bandmates are forcing you to lug around a heavy PA, then get a lightweight PA. The new EV's may be right up your alley.

 

But if it were me, I would just tell them that someone else needs to do it from now on. Like maybe your lead singer?

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave, thanks, it is time for us to invest in a new PA.. so it's a timely suggestion.. we've always rehearsed at my place because my keyboard equipment was too large to move, and I had the space in my basement. I actually see the VR-09 as something that might allow us to rehearse somewhere else. I can easily take an Xstand, the VR-09 and a K10 somewhere else to rehearse.. it's all part of a master plan.. so we'll see.

[CEB]

The sound quailty on this board isn't the major compromise. I've watched a lot of demos and videos from Katsunori Ujiie and his phasing in parts seems to be lacking compared to his normal play. He is a good keyboardist. I think it is the action. If this thing plays like a Juno-Gi I know it is the action. That thing was a dog.

[voxpops]

The sound quailty on this board isn't the major compromise. I've watched a lot of demos and videos from Katsunori Ujiie and his phasing in parts seems to be lacking compared to his normal play. He is a good keyboardist. I think it is the action. If this thing plays like a Juno-Gi I know it is the action. That thing was a dog.

I agree, he seemed to be struggling a little. I think that is the biggest concern here.

[Outkaster]

Friends.. I am not criticizing your choices so no need to get defensive. I could give a shit what anyone plays for their own musical expression.

 

I just would not make such compromises. Especially the ones that end with "The audience cannot tell the difference anyway". That excuse just does not cut it in my book. Artists create the best work possible, regardless of what they believe the audience perceives.

 

That's how I feel as well.

[allan_evett]

.....

 

There it is again... Hey, the audience can't hear the difference, so why should we care?

 

I have heard some great Hammond players perform on old VK7s and CX3's. Their performances where great, but the organ sound was severely lacking. I wondered why artists of their stature would not insist on better instruments. Probably because their tour managers said "Why lug around a B3 when we can carry this light VK7? The audience

can't tell the difference anyway...."

 

I also find it really interesting that the same cats on this thread who feel the need to defend crappy 15 year old Hammond clone technology are the same ones who must have the latest and greatest clones for "worthy gigs". I just don't know how anyone could go back to that crappy VK engine with all the great alternatives available to us today.

 

But I get it... It's "cheap"....

 

And for some, that 'crappy VK engine' has worked very well. Lots of individual experience and various opinions here.

 

Regarding "cheap", perhaps my experience will shed some light ? There are different gigs, different audiences (sometimes including a variety of musos, often with with different tastes and expectations; these differences allow for a variety of options, simple as that. So we have a lot of choices when it comes to tools; and all have their place. I have my A, B, and C-rigs pretty well set ( at least for 2nd tier - organ, synth,etc.); but if I didn't, the VR-09 would be a very attractive option.

 

In a 'Hammond centric' gig the real deal (if budget, and space allow) or at least a top-notch clone (with a Vent', or condensed, portable rotary setup) is usually the best. Otherwise, in a pop / rock band mix the choice is much more open.

I play a lot of country, Americana, and classic rock. My A-rig 2nd tier keyboard is usually a Stage 2, 76 with a Ventilator. If the gig is more synth intensive, I run a JP-50 2nd tier - sometimes with the Vent'; the JP-50 has about a dozen, drawbar presets that I've programmed. (Currently am working on integrating an Ocean Beach DB-1 with the JP; still a couple of SysEx fixes to be completed).  B-rig 2nd tier 'board is an iPad - using the touch screen drawbar organ from GarageBand - driven currently by an MX-61(oops, another 'cheapie' ).  C-rig is the single keyboard deal for tiny stages; the JP-50 covers that fine.

 

The point is this: All three rig scenarios produce an A-game sound; and that's confirmed by comments from bandmates, audience members, and visiting musos. Granted the Nord gets a bit more notice from the musos; but that makes sense. 

Especially in the country scene, Denver players tend to 'visit' other bands on their nights-off; so I run into other players often. Haven't had a negative comment on the organ tones yet - no matter the rig.  And I do ask fellow musos about that between sets, i.e. - 'how is the mix', ' ...balance between keyboards', '...keyboard sound', and so forth. And it's not just a Denver anomaly; I've been using a variety of rigs for years; different markets, road work, etc..

So yes, it is possible to get A-game sound from a variety of gear - even a 'budget' 61 and an iPad app.  If I showed up at this weekend's gig with a VR-09, it would work quite well.

[Adan]

Friends.. I am not criticizing your choices so no need to get defensive. I could give a shit what anyone plays for their own musical expression.

 

I just would not make such compromises. Especially the ones that end with "The audience cannot tell the difference anyway". That excuse just does not cut it in my book. Artists create the best work possible, regardless of what they believe the audience perceives.

 

That's how I feel as well.

 

Well, it's been a few days and a couple pages since we beat this issue to death, maybe we should do it all over again.

 

Anybody who can go around telling everyone what THEY would do on OTHER people's gigs just has too much time on their hands.

 

But I agree with those who say the VR-09 may not be the keyboard to bring for an organ-centric gig. Not only is the action non-waterfall, but the black keys are small enough that many organ licks just don't feel right. By contrast, I think the Korg Krome keys are a little bit better for organ playing.

 

I'm thinking of the VR as being useful for when I sub with pop cover bands, where organ is a small part of the palette.

[Ekewaka]

I also find it really interesting that the same cats on this thread who feel the need to defend crappy 15 year old Hammond clone technology are the same ones who must have the latest and greatest clones for "worthy gigs". I just don't know how anyone could go back to that crappy VK engine with all the great alternatives available to us today.

 

But I get it... It's "cheap"....

 

...this reminds me to bring a Steinberg to the next bar gig where I need piano sounds for two songs in the setlist. It will be fine as I will just tear down the stage area and throw out all the plasma TVs and chairs.

[Josh Paxton]

Artists create the best work possible, regardless of what they believe the audience perceives.

 

And that, finally, is your answer right there. For the gigs where I would use this board, I am not an artist and the product of my work is not art. I am a tradesman; an independent contractor; a proud gig whore, and my product is the inducement and facilitation of alcohol consumption. Using this board for those gigs is no more an issue than a plumber reaching for a $10 wrench instead of a $40 wrench. As long as it stops the leak, it has done its job -- and so has the plumber.

[Ekewaka]

...I'm very tempted (but no time) to start a Niacin like band with just a VR-09, just to put a stop on all the nay-sayers about equipment that makes the music, not the musicians....

[Dana.]

If the VR-09 weren't so light and "cheap," would this thread be 11 pages? Doubt it.

[Dana.]

Not only is the action non-waterfall, but the black keys are small enough that many organ licks just don't feel right.

Or piano or electric piano licks. It's just not a good action, period.

[HammondDave]

Artists create the best work possible, regardless of what they believe the audience perceives.

 

And that, finally, is your answer right there. For the gigs where I would use this board, I am not an artist and the product of my work is not art. I am a tradesman; an independent contractor; a proud gig whore, and my product is the inducement and facilitation of alcohol consumption. Using this board for those gigs is no more an issue than a plumber reaching for a $10 wrench instead of a $40 wrench. As long as it stops the leak, it has done its job -- and so has the plumber.

 

I LOVE IT!!!!!! Thank you for your honesty!

 

[video:youtube]

[brenner13]

 

SonicState posted a new vid today. VK engine looks to have a few updates...leakage and key click?

[LX88]

I am not so quick to dismiss the VK-09 as a 10 dollar wrench until I get my hands on one.

 

I played on the keybed at NAMM. It reminded me of a non weighted Motif.

 

As far as the VK organ engine... if it is anything like the VK8m module it should do nicely. Ditto for the GX series pianos...if they included the good ones. I have lived with both of those sound sources and have never been disappointed with the sounds( with the exception of maybe the leslie sim).

 

I am highly curious about this board because of my good experiences with recent Roland products. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they included some of the good stuff ( Vintage 1 chorus vibrato from the VK8 and Stage 1 EP and Superior Grand from the 300GX etc.)

[Craig MacDonald]

 

SonicState posted a new vid today. VK engine looks to have a few updates...leakage and key click?

 

Your link didn't work.. try this one..

[brenner13]

Thanks for helping the newbie.

[HammondDave]

Just judging from this video....

 

Damn, that distortion sounds awful! And sometimes the keys double trigger.... Is that really a feature? And that may be the worse Vox sound I have ever heard... OY!

 

On the positive side... I do like the looper for quick ideas...

[LX88]

At about 8 minutes into the Sonic State video you can just briefly hear the chorus vibrato on the organ....which of course he has running in conjunction with the leslie sim. It sounds promising, but then they go and screw it up, assuming that everybody likes the overdrive.

 

This is the first indication I have heard that it even has chorus vibrato. At NAMM they didn't use it at all

 

The VK8m I had featured really good overdrive, but there was also one amp model like they use here which was supposed to mimic a Marshall stack ala Jon Lord, I presume.

 

But just briefly I also heard a snippet of the acoustic piano which didn't sound bad.

 

They are spending so much time showing all the features when I want to hear the bread and butter sounds.

 

Some of Roland's best EP's were on models prior to the " super natural" stuff so lets hope they resurrect those.

 

I don't know...the weight and the price seem attractive. Does the keyboard split upper and lower manual organ?

[HammondDave]

I think that they said that it splits upper and lower... Through the iPad, I think.

 

Yes the piano does sound decent. Would be tough to play on that keyboard, though...,

[Ekewaka]

I think that they said that it splits upper and lower... Through the iPad, I think.

 

Yes the piano does sound decent. Would be tough to play on that keyboard, though...,

 

It's amazing what practice could do for playing piano on any kind of keyboard.

[brenner13]

Fantom 6 and 7 have slightly thinner black keys than standard and fingers easily slip off making for sloppy sharps and flats, especially when sweaty. I've often considered lightly scoring the dark keys with some corse sandpaper, but didn't want to wind up with a yucky feel or destroy the possible resale value. Aftertouch, sequencer, sampling, audio recording, and light weight will likely keep my old X7 as the bottom gigging board, MIDI'd into the vr09 for lower manual stuff and stretching out a bit with those descent pianos. There's a PK input on the vr09, too...but since it can only be split twice, perhaps the upper, lower and pedal cannot be used simultaneously? Better continue to be nice to the bass player...for now, he,he.

 

Regardless, this new offering hopefully falls right into my niche to cover classic rock and original hard rockin blues for the 20 or so bar gigs I play per year. Got to rethink the distortion if that is the only setting, though.

[Outkaster]

I think that they said that it splits upper and lower... Through the iPad, I think.

 

Yes the piano does sound decent. Would be tough to play on that keyboard, though...,

 

It's amazing what practice could do for playing piano on any kind of keyboard.

 

What does that mean?

[niacin]

I sent Roland US an email last week regarding the midi spec and asked about the drawbars. So, FYI:

 

"the drawbars are assigned to System Exclusive data addresses".

 

They kindly sent me the midi spec sheet, which is not in the manuals and which they have only just received from Japan, so if you have any specific midi data questions feel free to ask.

 

 

[Josh Paxton]

Question: I see the manual says the damper pedal can be reassigned to do several other functions, including rotary speed control. But I wasn't able to discern whether this function can be assigned per patch, or whether it's global -- in other words, whether you can set it up so that the pedal acts as a rotary speed switch for organ patches, and a damper pedal for all the other patches. Does anyone know if that's possible?

[Craig MacDonald]

FKS,

 

I downloaded the owners manual (it's available now) and under the section entitled "Settings That are Stored in The Registrations" they list the following:

 

L Foot Switch (function of the left foot switch)

R Foot Switch (function of the right foot switch)

Damper Part (parts enabled for the damper pedal)

 

NOTE that it refers to L/R foot switches.. as I read the manual it's not clear which is right or left (damper or expression).. but the expression pedal can be assigned to the same functions as the damper pedal.. (expression/registration shift/looper/rotary speed/song start/stop). SO it looks to me as if the damper and expression pedal functions can be stored in registrations, and that's a rather cool feature to have as an option.

 

Other important settings that can be stored in registrations are transpose, dual/split, octaves, level of each section, effect settings, d-beam settings, and virtually all the organ settings.. SO this means that you can store completely different split/layer combinations, and completely different organs in different registrations, which I like. Some clones have limitations in this regard (by design) for example the Crumar Mojo only stores drawbar settings in it's presets (like a real Hammond). I prefer being able to change from my nice clean hammond, to my vintage gritty hammond, to my distorted Deep Purple sounding organ with the push of a button.. The VR-09 seems to allow for this.

[Craig MacDonald]

I sent Roland US an email last week regarding the midi spec and asked about the drawbars. So, FYI:

 

"the drawbars are assigned to System Exclusive data addresses".

 

They kindly sent me the midi spec sheet, which is not in the manuals and which they have only just received from Japan, so if you have any specific midi data questions feel free to ask.

 

 

Niacin, thanks for the info.. would you mind sending this to me off-line, I have a VR-09 on order and this would be nice to have. Thanks!!

[Craig MacDonald]

 

But just briefly I also heard a snippet of the acoustic piano which didn't sound bad.

 

They are spending so much time showing all the features when I want to hear the bread and butter sounds.

 

Some of Roland's best EP's were on models prior to the " super natural" stuff so lets hope they resurrect those.

 

I don't know...the weight and the price seem attractive. Does the keyboard split upper and lower manual organ?

LX88

I played the VR-09 about a week ago and the rep told me that the pianos were from the GX pianos and he described these as "roland's best sampled pianos".. they sounded very good to me!

 

The VR-09 is capable of 3 organ parts (upper/lower/pedal) and believe it has a key to pedal function that allows the lower part of the manual to trigger bass.. it is also capable of split/layer between ANY two sounds (unlike the Hammond SK which can split and layer but one part MUST be organ).. so the VR-09 can layer acoustic piano and strings etc... ALL of these functions are pretty easily accessed on the keyboard itself (no iPad is required).. there are dedicated buttons for split, transpose, octave up/down etc.. so this can easily be done on the keyboard itself..

[Josh Paxton]

under the section entitled "Settings That are Stored in The Registrations" they list the following:

 

L Foot Switch (function of the left foot switch)

R Foot Switch (function of the right foot switch)

Damper Part (parts enabled for the damper pedal)

 

NOTE that it refers to L/R foot switches.. as I read the manual it's not clear which is right or left (damper or expression)..

 

I believe (unless I'm misreading it) that those L/R footswitch settings don't refer to the damper and expression pedals at all, but rather to the L and R switches on one of Roland's PK-6 or PK-9 pedal boards, connected via the dedicated 8-pin "PK IN" jack on the back panel. In other words, you need to use a whole pedal board to access those functions.

 

SO it looks to me as if the damper and expression pedal functions can be stored in registrations, and that's a rather cool feature to have as an option.

 

I hope that's the case, since that would at least allow one pedal to perform double-duty, if not allow for two. What I hope even more is that someone will find a way to hack together a simple footswitch with an 8-pin connector, and get it to send a message that can fool the VR into thinking it's a PK board. I have to wonder how many people Roland thinks are going to use a $900 or $1700 pedal board with a $999 synth?