Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Ken Beaumont]

I pre-ordered one from Sweetwater and was told the same thing April.

[LX88]

I saw a demo of this at NAMM. They wouldn't let you play it, but you were able to touch the keys when the demos weren't happening.

 

The keys didn't feel that great . They key depth felt a little shallow, somewhat similar to a non weighted Motif. I really missed the excellent key feel of the VK8, V combo etc. from back when Roland really built a good board.

 

The people doing the demos didn't have A CLUE about getting a good organ sound. One of the guys doing a demo showed us his "Larry Young Sound"....trying to be hip here, he didn't have any idea at all what the real Larry Young sound was. (Hey lets add some overdrive!) Where do they get these people?

 

By the way I am still abig fan of the VK8m module, if you know how to get it to bypass the leslie sim mode. If this thing were anywhere close to the VK8m it might be worth the price.

 

So I don'tknow.I will have to wait to get my hands on one but my impression was that they cut a lot of corners and I am not sure that the people who programmed it know what they are doing as far as getting good classic organ sounds. From what I can tell the VR 700 didn't sell too many so now Roland is trying this.

[Adan]

By the way I am still abig fan of the VK8m module, if you know how to get it to bypass the leslie sim mode. If this thing were anywhere close to the VK8m it might be worth the price.

 

This implies that you noticed sonic differences between the VR09 and the VK8m. Is that correct? Can you elaborate?

 

I would have assumed the VR has the VK engine stuffed into it, but maybe not.

[BlueScal3r]

Pre-ordered as well. April 2 is the expected ship date. Musician's Friend has a 15% off keyboard sale now. had to chat with representative to get a one time code since it is a pre-order item.

 

Looking forward to this keyboard. Looks like a really good value with some usable sounds. I like the IPAD integration as well.

 

How do the oscillators work? The IPAD app shows an upper and lower. Is that referring to the keyboard split? Also the upper has Dual listed so it's two oscillators?

[torhu]

As far as I can tell, there is no VA synth in this board. It's all sampling, except for the organ simulator. Only the usual Attack/Decay/Release/Cutoff/Resonance settings, I would think. You would think that Roland would mention it somewhere if it had anything else, and they don't.

[BlueScal3r]

Looking at the brochure below I do see oscillator/Filter/AMP/LFO settings.

 

 

VR-09 Brochure

[Craig MacDonald]

As far as I can tell, there is no VA synth in this board. It's all sampling, except for the organ simulator. Only the usual Attack/Decay/Release/Cutoff/Resonance settings, I would think. You would think that Roland would mention it somewhere if it had anything else, and they don't.

 

Are you talking about the VR-09?????? Because there absolutely is a VA synth in it and it is fully editable with an iPad editor.. I think you need to have a little closer look at the documentation.

[SOr1]

That sounds like a good deal - how does the pre-order work? Do you pay now or when it ships?

[Ken Beaumont]

When it ships

[Ekewaka]

When it ships

 

Oh cool, I should order one then. Should be a no-brainer to order.

[torhu]

Are you talking about the VR-09?????? Because there absolutely is a VA synth in it and it is fully editable with an iPad editor.. I think you need to have a little closer look at the documentation.

Yeah, the iPad app definitely has synth editing in it (at least it does in the screenshots). Does this mean that you can't edit those parameters without an iPad? There must be some reason why Roland doesn't mention the VA synth anywhere on their various websites.

 

On the other hand, the FP-7F has the VK organ engine without it being mentioned anywhere outside of the manual. Who knows if it is a marketing decision or just an oversight...

[Craig MacDonald]

This is the first paragraph of the brochure..

 

Travel-ready, affordable, and outfitted

with top-level Roland sounds, the

V-Combo VR-09 is the ideal all-in-

one solution for performing keyboard

players. Dedicated piano, organ, and

synth sound enginesorganized in

three intuitive blocks on the front

panel

 

 

Not sure why you would suggest that the inclusion of a synth is not mentioned (maybe because it refers to a synth sound engine rather than a synth?). Also in almost every video demo the fully editable synth and iPad editor app is shown. Some basic synth parameters are editable without the use of the editor.. ADR and resonance for example.

[LX88]

It was really hard to tell whether the VR 09 had anything in common with the VK8m from the NAMM demos that I heard.

 

I certainly didn't hear any chorus vibrato added to the demos at NAMM. I guess the people that play at the shows think this is probably too old school, somewhere back in the day when organs were used for roller skating rinks.

 

There are a lot of Roland clone naysayers on this list - however the VK8 engine had a lot going for it including excellent overdrive properties and chorus vibrato that still trumps most of what else is out there.

 

I hope that the VR 09 has retained much or at least some of what made the VK8 and VK8m good. I have also been fairly disappointed with many of the Super Natural electric pianos so I also would have to wait and see what Roland had done as far as EP's are concerned.

[garnermike]

If the Ipad is needed to tweek the leslie speed/sound, I'd need to know if that tweeked rotary sound can then be permanently saved within the keyboard. If it can be saved, then borrowing an Ipad -- not buying one -- to tweek it is an option, thus making a purchase of the VR-09 justifiable.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

The documentation says that you can use the editor to build custom sounds, and you can also take it with you to tweak live sounds.. I interpret that to mean that you can create and save your own tweaks (such as Leslie speed/sound), you dont have to have it connected. I expect you could borrow an iPad, to make your changes save them and you do not have to own one.

[Ekewaka]

Who-ho, pre-ordered one today.

[voxpops]

Same here. Nice to have the "friendly" discount, too!

[Ekewaka]

Same here. Nice to have the "friendly" discount, too!

 

Yes, The Musicians Friend 15% was nice, on a pre-order!

[becoming53]

Does anyone know a release date for this in the UK?

 

I want to try one before ordering - but if the synth sounds and the split / layering capabilities are up to scratch, I can see myself trading in my current top tier (Juno-stage) for one of these. Unless anyone knows of any reasons why that would be a really bad idea?

[Craig MacDonald]

A couple of differences come to mind.. The Juno-Stage is 76 keys, if I'm not mistaken, I think it has a mic input and SRX expansion capabilities.. I'm not sure of the split/layering capabilities, but the Juno-Stage has a midi controller mode that I don't think exists on the VR-09.. So there are a number of differences in features that the VR-09 doesn't have.

 

Personally, I'm very interested in how the 4 different sound types can interact? The VR-09 specs state the following:

 

Organ (3 parts) Piano (2 parts) Synthesizer (2 parts) Drum (1 part) GM2 (16 parts)

 

It seems as if you can layer any two sound sets, and I don't believe that there are any limitations between the piano/synth/organ and you can split/layer any two in combination, but I'm not sure how the drums and GM2 sound set fits in.. 16 part GM2 suggests that it has is, or has a mode that it is 16 part mulitimbral, but can this be accessed and layered on top of the drawbar organ or EP's etc.. can you access 16 GM2 sounds at once while playing the drawbar organ? I'm a little unsure of how you can access all of the GM2 sounds and and whether or not you can store them along with organ settings in a live "performance", for example.

 

I'm not sure we'll get these questions answered until the product is released, or the documentation is available.

 

[AnotherScott]

I'm a little unsure of how you can access all of the GM2 sounds and and whether or not you can store them along with organ settings in a live "performance", for example.

I would guess not. It probably means that, if you are driving the board from an external sequencer (or triggering sounds from another board from which you can play notes and send MIDI Program Changes on different channels), you can get that 16-channel multitimbrality, but I doubt it would have internal recallable presets for the 16 channels as part of its user registrations. It's not impossible, but I think it's unlikely.

 

As for whether you could do that while simultaneously, for example, playing organ on its own keybed, that's an interesting question. It could be that any of its own internal key assignments (solo, split, or layered) could also be assigned to one or more particular MIDI channels; or it is possible that they are completely independent of the 16 channels available to be externally driven. I've seen boards designed both ways.

[Craig MacDonald]

Yes I expect that you can access all the GM2 sounds in multitimbral mode via an external sequencer.. However, I would also expect that all the GM2 sounds can be accessed individually as one of the two layered sounds..

 

We won't know until we see the manual or get our hands on it.. I'm hoping that the GM2 sounds can all be accessed and built into a program along with piano or organ sounds, but we'll see.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, that would make sense. Since it has GM sounds in it, I would be surprised if you could not store a registration that let you use GM sounds within its own splits and layers (as opposed to 16 of them for external triggering).

[Craig MacDonald]

For me, I can get away with very basic split and layering capability, organ+acoustic piano, acoustic piano+strings, etc.. the thing is that the SK1 doesn't cut it for me because one of the split/layers HAS to be organ.. this is why I'm so exited about the VR-09 because I believe that I can layer any two sounds neither of which has to be an organ.. so nice strings+piano, strings+flutes or whatever.

 

This is the significant advantage the VR-09 has for me over the SK1.. and I really want to understand to what extent I can split and layer. My expectation is that the VR-09 will be perfectly satisfactory for small gigs and I'm excited about it!

[Ken Beaumont]

I'm looking to use it as a top board above my SV-1.

I am currently using a Casio XW-P1. I wanted a better sounding organ and better PCM sounds especially brass.

[Ekewaka]

One reason I ordered one is that I don't like taking big rigs to some of the gigs I have, crammed spaces in small bars with drunk people wiggling left and right with beer bottles....

[AnotherScott]

I can see myself trading in my current top tier (Juno-stage) for one of these. Unless anyone knows of any reasons why that would be a really bad idea?

I think it would largely be a matter of the appeal of the drawbar organ function (and perhaps also the VA synth, particularly with the iPad app... though if you have an iPad, there are numerous nice, cheap VA apps you can run on it which you could drive from your Juno Stage too). Other than that, I'm not sure what its to be gained, and from the sound of it, the Stage seems more flexible overall, and it sounds like it may have the better feeling action, besides.

[agitato]

What about the overall quality of all of the sounds of the vr-09 as compared to the sk1, and also the feel of the keybed and overall build quality/reliability?

[Craig MacDonald]

What about the overall quality of all of the sounds of the vr-09 as compared to the sk1, and also the feel of the keybed and overall build quality/reliability?

 

That's an interesting question.. just speculating of course but.. as far as bread and butter sounds go, I expect that the SK organ sounds better. I'm not a real fan of the Roland VK engine and I'll have to wait and see how much it is or isn't improved in the VR-09. I expect that the VR pianos and EP's will probably sound better. The SK clavinet is great and will probably sound better.. but beyond that, I think the SK is loses for a number of reasons.. The VR has a built in analog synth so there is no way the SK synth samples will keep up with that. Furthermore, the VR has the complete GM2 soundset, whereas the Extra Voices in the SK are very limited. Try to find nice warm strings on the SK.. (that's actually a trick question because there are none). The SK does have one advantage in that it can download samples from the Hammond library, however the library is really very limited (and still does not contain nice warm strings) and to me this feature really doesn't make up for the weak and limited extra voices in the SK.

 

So from a sound perspective I think that the SK will have a better organ sound, but with the exception of the clavinet, the Roland sounds will be better, and certainly much more comprehensive. This is just my opinon of course.. the overall quality of sounds in one keyboard vs another is very subjective.

 

As far, as build quality and keyboard feel. Only the SK has waterfall keys so obviously it will feel better for organ, but beyond that neither keyboards are weighted or semi-weighted action, so does it really matter that much..? I mean both keyboards will be a compromise for playing acoustic and electric pianos. I do think the the SK gets the nod for having a better keyboard (at least now that they have the ability to use the high trigger point for organ)

 

As far as build quality goes, I've read a number of comments that suggest the build quality is poor on the VR-09, based on the switches/drawbars/buttons looking rather delicate, and the fact that the keybed is the same as some low end roland keyboards which aren't great. Personally I will wait and see for myself. I don't necessarily think that a delicate looking switch is necessarily unreliable. I think that with the VR-09 is a 12 pound keyboard and as such you can't expect it to be built like a tank.. That does not mean that the components are unreliable.

 

On the other hand, one might expect that SK1 to be more reliable, being that it is from Hammond and perhaps a little sturdier looking (although not that much) but the SK series has been plagued with out of the box issues (although mostly resolved now).

 

All of this is just speculation until I have a VR-09 in my hands to play with, go through the sounds and play them on the keyboard, but I have high hopes for it.

[becoming53]

I can see myself trading in my current top tier (Juno-stage) for one of these. Unless anyone knows of any reasons why that would be a really bad idea?

I think it would largely be a matter of the appeal of the drawbar organ function (and perhaps also the VA synth, particularly with the iPad app... though if you have an iPad, there are numerous nice, cheap VA apps you can run on it which you could drive from your Juno Stage too). Other than that, I'm not sure what its to be gained, and from the sound of it, the Stage seems more flexible overall, and it sounds like it may have the better feeling action, besides.

 

Yeah it's mainly the drawbar organ engine that's tempting me...I'm currently driving an ipad from my Stage and running garage band for my organ sounds, and I'd quite like to phase that out for simplicity, and also to add real drawbars. But I really like the action on the Juno-stage and the ability to split / layer more than 2 sounds...I'd possibly miss the arpeggiator as well. Meh...I'll wait to play the VR-09 and then go with my gut. Thanks for the input.