Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Craig MacDonald]

This looks like an XW-P1 for $500 more money. Except I really like Roland eps.

All you have to do is listen to the demos of the drawbar organs in both and you will know that there is a huge difference between the two! You couldn't pay me to use the casio organ.

[AnotherScott]

CONTROLLER

Damper assign: damper, registration shift, looper, rotary f/s, rhythm start/stop, song start/stop

Damper part: to All, to Lower, to Upper

Expression Assign: expression, looper, rotary f/s, rhythm start/stop, song start/stop

 

I was told these are system level parameters and are not saved with each preset/registration.

If you can't save them with each registration, that sounds like it could be a little tricky... can't use the footswitch for sustain on pianos but rotary on organs? Maybe there will be some way to do that...

[AnotherScott]

This looks like an XW-P1 for $500 more money.

Except with better piano, organ, and rompler sounds. No doubt the Casio gives you a lot for the money, but sound is what it's about. I think this would be worth the difference if someone can afford it. At least if their focus is on those sounds. Plus there is the appeal of full-size drawbars.

[burningbusch]

As I posted elsewhere, the action is the same as the JunoDi. The overall build quality seems the same. The drawbars respond just find but seem to be a little more plastic feel/response than the earlier VRs. Set your expectation at the JunoDi level and you'll probably be happy. I think early on there was the impression that the APs/EPs were SN. That does not seem to be the case. A listing of APs/EPs and clavs will give you some familiar names (maybe some new ones as well).

 

PIANOS

GrandPianoV

GrandPiano

GrandPianoV2

Rock Piano

Mono Piano

JD Piano

SA Piano

Honky Tonk

Echo Piano

European Piano

Classical Piano

 

ELECTRIC PIANO

Vintage EP

Stone EP

Tremolo EP

Dyno E.Piano

60s E.Piano

60s TremEP

FM EP 1

FM EP 2

80s EP

 

CLAVS

Clav 1

Clav 2

Phase Clav 1

T-Wah Clav

Comp Clav

BrillClav DB

Pulse Clav

Phase Clav 2

Clav 3

Velo Clav

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

CONTROLLER

Damper assign: damper, registration shift, looper, rotary f/s, rhythm start/stop, song start/stop

Damper part: to All, to Lower, to Upper

Expression Assign: expression, looper, rotary f/s, rhythm start/stop, song start/stop

 

I was told these are system level parameters and are not saved with each preset/registration.

If you can't save them with each registration, that sounds like it could be a little tricky... can't use the footswitch for sustain on pianos but rotary on organs? Maybe there will be some way to do that...

 

This is what I was told by the presenter. There might still be hope though. On something like the RD300, there are parameters found in the "system level" that are in fact saved in each SETUP.

 

Busch.

[To B3]

That's tricky indeed, on a keyboard that "does it all" you have to chose just one function globally for the damper and deal with it? And what about the other functions of the exp pedal besides expression itself? Instead of repeating a lot of the functions of the damper, couldn't it be a little better utilized to control effects and stuff? That part disapointed me a little... I know it's a 1000 bucks keyboard, but I think those things are more about a little OS reenginering than anything that involves a lot of money. What about the outputs, at least you can route different sounds between them, esp piano and organ?

[HSS]

In addition to the AP, EP, and clav sounds you mentioned, as well as the organ and synth we already know about, does the VR-09 also have a standard GM sound library? It would be nice to have few other sounds available in a pinch (e.g. horns, accordions, woodwinds, strings, etc.)

 

[Craig MacDonald]

It has the full Roland GM2 set.

[HSS]

It has the full Roland GM2 set.

 

Thanks. It wasn't obvious to me when I looked at the spec list. My RD300GX also has the full GM2 sound library which I have found useful a few times in live gigging situations.

[burningbusch]

Very true, lots of other sounds on board. I was just detailing the sounds people seem most interested in on this forum.

 

Busch.

[The_Star_Guy]

Very true, lots of other sounds on board. I was just detailing the sounds people seem most interested in on this forum.

 

Busch.

 

Thank you so much for your time in providing this information to us! After listening to the demos, I'm very pleased with the Rock organ sounds. But have you also had a chance to hear how the clean "Jazz" organs sound as well?

 

[HSS]

Very true, lots of other sounds on board. I was just detailing the sounds people seem most interested in on this forum.

 

Busch.

 

The extra GM sounds are not critical to me either, just nice to have on the rare occasion when they might be needed at a gig.

 

Anyway, many thanks for your thorough report on the VR-09 as well your reports on some of the other new boards.

[burningbusch]

Very true, lots of other sounds on board. I was just detailing the sounds people seem most interested in on this forum.

 

Busch.

 

Thank you so much for your time in providing this information to us! After listening to the demos, I'm very pleased with the Rock organ sounds. But have you also had a chance to hear how the clean "Jazz" organs sound as well?

 

Not yet. Maybe I can stop over tomorrow and see if I can get them to edit up an 888000000, C2/3, soft percussion with, and heaven forbid, without Leslie.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

What about the outputs, at least you can route different sounds between them, esp piano and organ?

 

I'm pretty sure that's a big no. I asked the presenter and that's what he said. I saw nothing while perusing the machine and the configurations settings that would leave me to believe otherwise.

 

Busch.

[To B3]

Biggest disapointment to mee are the (IMHO) bad use of the possibilities of the pedals (mainly thne exp), considering it's a stage keyboard supposed to be self contained. The rest is kinda workable to me. Hoping it can be fixed with a simple OS update before it's on the streets.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

ToB3,

 

I really wouldn't get all bent out of shape at this point I didn't see a definative NO yet (I don't think). It's also a $999 keyboard, so you're probably going to have to make some compromises somewhere.

 

No waterfall keys.. at this pricepoint I understand that, and I'm also a little dissappointed that the organ voices and the other voices can't be split to separate outs so the organ can be processed separately (and run through a real leslie or a ventilator) but again you have to make some compromises somewhere , and maybe the new leslie sim is so good it doesn't need separate processing.

 

Again this is such a fantastic price point, that I think still have to say WOW even if there are a few compromises.

 

Craig

[Craig MacDonald]

Very true, lots of other sounds on board. I was just detailing the sounds people seem most interested in on this forum.

 

Busch.

 

The extra GM sounds are not critical to me either, just nice to have on the rare occasion when they might be needed at a gig.

 

Anyway, many thanks for your thorough report on the VR-09 as well your reports on some of the other new boards.

 

The other GM sounds are what make this a viable inexpensive alternative for me when performing with my classic rock band.. I need some synth sounds, strings and brass and some mellotrons and some vocal ahhs.. etc.. these GM sounds make all the difference for me (something tells me it won't have mellotron sounds but I can work around that).

[DanL]

I think the original Nord Electro didn't have split outputs until a later release of the operating system, so maybe this is something Roland will offer at some point.

 

I'm not in the market for a board like this since I already have a Stage, but it is an intriguing piece of gear. If I were in the market it'd certainly get a long look. The sounds are not bad at all and the price point will get a lot of attention.

[To B3]

ToB3,

 

I really wouldn't get all bent out of shape at this point I didn't see a definative NO yet (I don't think). It's also a $999 keyboard, so you're probably going to have to make some compromises somewhere.

 

No waterfall keys.. at this pricepoint I understand that, and I'm also a little dissappointed that the organ voices and the other voices can't be split to separate outs so the organ can be processed separately (and run through a real leslie or a ventilator) but again you have to make some compromises somewhere , and maybe the new leslie sim is so good it doesn't need separate processing.

 

Again this is such a fantastic price point, that I think still have to say WOW even if there are a few compromises.

 

Craig

 

I agree with the big features in general for the price. But I think that the things pointed out are simple to fix enough to make the instrument even more impressive.

[Craig MacDonald]

To B3,

 

Yes I agree with you on this.. they seem simple, and maybe they will come.. at the same time you have to wonder why they weren't included. Perhaps, it's an oversight and there just hasn't been enough user input that suggests it's needed OR perhaps it's a cost vs benefit thing.. for example, maybe only 2% of the end users would ever thing of using this entry level keyboard with a real leslie.. so why bother adding a separate output, or the ability to pan organ left and other voices right.. Building this functionality may simply not be warranted.

 

All that said, I'm with you and I appreciate being able to store almost all settings within a program, including controller settings.

 

Craig

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I think the biggest design complication to panning sounds left and right is that many of the effects are probably stereo. But I'd be willing to disable effects to get the pseudo assignable outs when I needed them. That is, if there were a note in the manual that said that pan only fully put sounds to one side or the other if you turned the fx off, that would be fine with me. $999!

[Bif_]

perhaps it's a cost vs benefit thing.. for example, maybe only 2% of the end users would ever thing of using this entry level keyboard with a real leslie..

Craig

 

For every person like us that posts on these forums, there's probably hundreds that don't.

 

I'm sure most of those folks won't be interested in plugging their $999 keyboard into a $450 Vent. Don't get me wrong, I own a Vent and love it, and it will make any workstation organ much better but most of the buyers of this board won't spend the money on a Vent.

 

It just comes down to dollars and cents for most players that are weekend warriors, hobbyists, church players, etc. It won't matter to them about most of the concerns in this thread.

 

I think it's a pretty cool keyboard and I bet they'll sell a whole bunch of them.

 

Greg

[AnotherScott]

perhaps it's a cost vs benefit thing.. for example, maybe only 2% of the end users would ever thing of using this entry level keyboard with a real leslie.. so why bother adding a separate output, or the ability to pan organ left and other voices right.

I agree about the assignable out, but I doubt ability to pan a voice would add anything to the manufacturing cost.

 

I'm sure most of those folks won't be interested in plugging their $999 keyboard into a $450 Vent. Don't get me wrong, I own a Vent and love it, and it will make any workstation organ much better but most of the buyers of this board won't spend the money on a Vent.

True, though as I mentioned earlier, there are other benefits to separate outs, and there are surely some people who would use--or may happen to already own!--a Vent, a Motion Sound rotary speaker, etc.

[burningbusch]

Why isn't using the Vent in pass through a viable option here? It seems that the only thing you can't do is play piano and organ at the same time. Is that a big deal? But you've got your Leslie foot switch, the damper pedal sustains and you have the better Leslie sim. What am I missing here?

 

Busch.

[AnotherScott]

Why isn't using the Vent in pass through a viable option here? It seems that the only thing you can't do is play piano and organ at the same time. Is that a big deal?

A few issues there.

 

One, as you say, you can't play piano and organ at the same time, or more specifically, you can't split or layer the organ with anything. No LH bass, nothing. Unless you want it all to sound like it's going through a Leslie.

 

Then there's just having to remember to switch it in every time you change to an organ patch, and more problematic, remember to switch it out every time you switch away from an organ patch. This used to trip me up using a Korg G4 pedal on a board years ago. I'd be using it on an organ patch, then I'd be playing something on my 88, then I'd call up a different patch on the organ board (perhaps starting the next song), forgetting that the last patch I had used on the board was an organ, and wondering x seconds into the song why my brass sounded so funky.

 

And finally, as I mentioned, there are other things you can do with separate outs, besides attaching a Vent, like giving the sound man separate control of your LH bass, or running LH bass through a bass amp. Or just any kind of external processing.

 

New topic but related... are the fx global to your entire patch, or assignable to the 3 sections separately? i.e. you might want echo on your synth lead, but not on the bass line or other part you're playing underneath it. It's not a deal killer ($999!), but that could be another kind of issue that could be addressed by sending things out their own outputs.

[Ken Beaumont]

I have the same question? If I'm layering another sound with the organ am I really going to care about using a vent? It seems to me that I would want to use it where organ is my only sound.

If you really want to layer it with another sound there is always midi.

[burningbusch]

New topic but related... are the fx global to your entire patch, or assignable to the 3 sections separately? i.e. you might want echo on your synth lead, but not on the bass line or other part you're playing underneath it. It's not a deal killer ($999!), but that could be another kind of issue that could be addressed by sending things out their own outputs.

 

I'll see if I can find that answer.

 

Busch.

[Craig MacDonald]

First of all, the quality of the new leslie sim may be close to Ventilator quality so who cares about a separate output.. let's wait and see, as someone said on another forum, none of us have really even tried the and it's really a bit too early to be too critical.

 

Kudos to Roland for rolling this out and establishing a whole new unheard of price point for a good clone+ keyboard.

[To B3]

First of all, the quality of the new leslie sim may be close to Ventilator quality so who cares about a separate output.. let's wait and see, as someone said on another forum, none of us have really even tried the and it's really a bit too early to be too critical.

 

Kudos to Roland for rolling this out and establishing a whole new unheard of price point for a good clone+ keyboard.

 

To me the main issues are the non possibility of using a real wah or effect pedal on the clav side, for ex... or not being possible to link a bass sound to a bass amp while the right hand sound goes to a regulkar amp or soundboard. To me these are little stuff that can set it apart from being a good keyboard for the price to being a great board overall.

[AnotherScott]

If I'm layering another sound with the organ am I really going to care about using a vent?

More an issue with splits than layers, I think. When you're playing two different parts (LH bass, whatever), you don't want them both going through the leslie effect, but may really like to have the Vent on the organ. Deal killer? Maybe not. But a shame not to have the possibility if it wouldn't require any hardware that would have added cost to the board.

 

To me the main issues are the non possibility of using a real wah or effect pedal on the clav side, for ex... or not being possible to link a bass sound to a bass amp while the right hand sound goes to a regulkar amp or soundboard. To me these are little stuff that can set it apart from being a good keyboard for the price to being a great board overall.

Yup. All kinds of possibilities for external processing and routing. The built in fx, as good as they may be, won't necessarily be all the fx someone might want. I had a pedal I used to love using on guitar patches, for that matter (it brought in "feedback"). Without separate outs, you're essentially limited to the built in fx unless you play only one sound at a time (which then reduces the functionality of being able to do splits and layers).