Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Tonysounds]

Im with CEB. The Juno series has been .well, Ju Know..its cheap, so.

 

This will be no different. You think the brochure is ever going to say Hey, its really one of our crappy keyboard actions, but its not weighted, so you can trill and sputter and glissando.and when you really get pissed off, you can do some percussive hits on it.

 

I know theres a need to take the piss out of Hammond on this forum, and Nord sets themselves up for criticism with their steep (yet fair) pricing, but, REALLY.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

FWIW, a VK-09 and a Vent is still $500 less than an SK1...

 

The feel of the keys is a big unknown at the moment, but at least philosophically, Roland hasn't ignored it... their promo page says:

 

The 61-note keyboard has an extremely fast response, perfect for essential organ techniques such as trill, sputter, glissando, and percussive hits.

 

Probably has a high trigger point, at least.

 

Despite always disliking the VK organ engine, I'm really excited about this thing.. Anotherscott remember that it doesn't seem to have separate output for organ sounds so you may not be able to use it with a Vent without putting the other sounds through the vent too.. That said, there could be a way to separate the right left outputs organ on one channel and mono Extra voices on the other.. who knows. but at this point it really doesn't look like it will have a separate organ output.

[AnotherScott]

Lack of separate output for the organ sounds (therefore can't use a real leslie or an external leslie sim). This is something that Roland simply can't seem to understand, we want to put our organs tones separately through preamps, real leslies, external sims etc... by simply adding a separate organ output they might have doubled the sales of all their V-combo style keyboards!!

It may be unlikely, but it's not impossible that they may let you create registrations or otherwise configure the system so that the organ is sent out of one side of its stereo out, and other sounds out the other, which, for those of us who play in mono anyway, would work just fine for this purpose, without the issue of either having to hit Bypass on the Vent or not being able to play an organ through Vent and piano straight at the same time.

 

Similarly, I like the ability to send LH bass out one output, and all other sounds out the other. Keyboard bass sounds much more authentic when sent to its own bass amp. Or you might want to give the sound man separate control of "bass" versus "keyboards."

 

Just panning of sounds provides so much more flexibility in the unit, without even having to build in the hardware and software support for separate assignable outputs. But this was lacking on the VR-760. Along with support for programming in MIDI Program Changes. Roland just didn't seem to think you'd ever want to use the piece in anything other than a completely self-contained manner.

[Tonysounds]

And don't forget, it's less money than a Numa, and less than half the price of a Mojo, so it must be great!

 

[AnotherScott]

Im with CEB. The Juno series has been .well, Ju Know..its cheap, so.

 

This will be no different.

I only played the Juno Stage briefly, but I thought the keyboard was pretty nice. But I don't think that's the same as the lower end Junos.

[Craig MacDonald]

Im with CEB. The Juno series has been .well, Ju Know..its cheap, so.

 

This will be no different. You think the brochure is ever going to say Hey, its really one of our crappy keyboard actions, but its not weighted, so you can trill and sputter and glissando.and when you really get pissed off, you can do some percussive hits on it.

 

I know theres a need to take the piss out of Hammond on this forum, and Nord sets themselves up for criticism with their steep (yet fair) pricing, but, REALLY.

 

Tony, the Juno stuff may feel cheap, but after working in a music store for a couple years, one of the things I noticed about the Juno stuff was that it really was pretty reliable.. we had various models of the Juno stuff on display and running 10 hours a day with kids banging on them them and I don't recall any one of them having a problem.. (neither do I recall actually selling a lot of them but that's a different story).

 

I get it that with the new price point of the Vr-09 you might be getting what you pay for from a build quality standpoint, but I have to say that I'm really impressed with Roland for coming out with this, at this price point, it really seems like great value to me as a starter instrument for someone who values good quality organ/piano sounds. I think it may take a bit of wind out of Hammonds sails/sales..

[Sam Mullins]

I know theres a need to take the piss out of Hammond on this forum, and Nord sets themselves up for criticism with their steep (yet fair) pricing, but, REALLY.

 

I get it that with the new price point of the Vr-09 you might be getting what you pay for from a build quality standpoint, but I have to say that I'm really impressed with Roland for coming out with this, at this price point, it really seems like great value to me as a starter instrument for someone who values good quality organ/piano sounds. I think it may take a bit of wind out of Hammonds sails/sales..

 

After seeing the price and limitations, I don't see this as significant competition to either Electro or Hammond SK. Most people who are willing to part with 2K won't put up with the limitations we have been discussing. But it may bring down the price of used Electro's and SK1s.

 

I'm happy that this is in a different niche. The $2K Hammond clone neighborhood is already crowded. It doesn't make much sense to me to keep comparing this to those instruments. If a young person or hobbyist has a limited budget (say 800-1200) to spend, then the question is how does it compare to Krome, MOX6, PS-6, etc. Depending on their particular needs, I think those people will find it an attractive instrument (assuming the keybed isn't total crap.) If they really want an all-in-one with drawbars, then there isn't any competition in the new instrument market for this price range.

[burningbusch]

I think the knobs and switches will probably be nice. They look old VR-ish. I am concerned about the action and the overall build quality. I suppose Rolands thinking is more along the lines of the Jupiter 50 is the pro board and the VR09 is entry level. Yes, the Jupiter 50 lacks the drawbars, but it has much better sounds overall. In order to get the VR09 to the quality (body and action) of the Jupiter, it would probably bring the price to $1500+. So then Roland would be bringing out yet another update to the old VR line which never sold well in the past. What's the chances of it doing substantially better with this update? It's getting to be a crowded market with these "pro" boards. So going after the entry level market makes a lot of sense because there's really nothing like it. Now a kid can get a decent top and bottom board for the price of an Electro.

 

You would think, based on the interest in all things Hammond on this forum that clone wheels are huge sellers. In Seattle, I don't know that I can find a clone wheel at any of the dealers. No one carries Hammond much less the esoteric clones. I rarely hear organ played in clubs. If anyone does, the Electro is more than adequate.

 

Busch.

[Bill W]

I am actually going to get one of these to put on top of my Fantom G6 in my 70s/80s cover band. I need a decent organ on maybe 10 songs and I can make good use of the VR-09's VA capabilities the rest of the time. Sounds like a winner. When I need a serious "B3" I still have the Electro 3 and my Kronos.

[AnotherScott]

So then Roland would be bringing out yet another update to the old VR line which never sold well in the past.

It might have sold better if they had stopped screwing it up. ;-)

[CEB]

Im with CEB. The Juno series has been .well, Ju Know..its cheap, so.

 

This will be no different.

I only played the Juno Stage briefly, but I thought the keyboard was pretty nice. But I don't think that's the same as the lower end Junos.

 

I played a Juno Stage on top of a Hammnd A-100 in July of 2011. It wasn't that bad. It had a couple of EP patches I gravitated toward. I didn't like the A. Pianos so much. I would have rather had my MP-5 but I will play anything if it mean I don't have to mess with setup or tear down.

[Craig MacDonald]

Sam rather than suggesting that people planning to spend $2000 on an sk1 wont be interested in the vr09 because of its limitations... I tend to see this more as Roland establishing a new low price point for a capable hammond clone.. And more people won't be interested in spending the $2000 when a very capable clone is available for half the price.. Especially if the extra voices on the cheaper instrument are better!

[Tonysounds]

The Juno Stage is definitely more "pro" then the Juno Di or G, but even then, it's not up to the quality of Roland's other pro boards. The other Junos.....no thank you, for me.

[To B3]

In my point of view, they are trying to do with stage all-in-one keyboards the same thing the market did with VA keyboards. Maybe they are seeing it as an Stage Keyboard with clonewheel inside at a similar way Korg saw the MicroKorg as an entry level VA. And all the other brands lauched their version to compete against. I think there's a market.

[CEB]

The Juno Stage is definitely more "pro" then the Juno Di or G, but even then, it's not up to the quality of Roland's other pro boards. The other Junos.....no thank you, for me.

 

This!

[Craig MacDonald]

In my point of view, they are trying to do with stage all-in-one keyboards the same thing the market did with VA keyboards. Maybe they are seeing it as an Stage Keyboard with clonewheel inside at a similar way Korg saw the MicroKorg as an entry level VA. And all the other brands lauched their version to compete against. I think there's a market.

 

To b3 I think there's a market too! A capable clone with other bread and butter keyboard sounds at a new and aggressive price point.. Lots will sell, I might buy one myself..

[Sam Mullins]

Sam rather than suggesting that people planning to spend $2000 on an sk1 wont be interested in the vr09 because of its limitations... I tend to see this more as Roland establishing a new low price point for a capable hammond clone.. And more people won't be interested in spending the $2000 when a very capable clone is available for half the price.. Especially if the extra voices on the cheaper instrument are better!

 

It's possible. I think that will depend on the keybed. Some of those $2K folks might put up with some of the limitations (lack of dedicated buttons for percussion, seperate outputs for organ) if the keybed is good. Some of those $2k folks are Hammond purists and they won't go for it. But some non-purists (like me) would consider it (in conjunction with a complimentary bottom board) if the keybed is good. If it was 2 years ago (i.e. the Electro didn't have drawbars and the SK1 didn't exist), then I think this would have stolen a signficant portion of the Electro 3 market. In any case, it may take enough of the non-purist market to put price pressure on the other manufacturers.

 

This is all theoretical for me since I just overhauled my rig and am quite happy with it. But if something like this had existed when I had less disposable income (i.e. before my kids got through college), I would have seriously considered it. These are good times for keyboardists: for signicantly less than $2K a kid/hobbyist/semi-pro can have a fairly complete dual keyboard rig (e.g. PX3 on bottom and VR-09 on top.)...and you can be carrying less than 40 pounds.

 

[Rusty Mike]

It's a Juno. The last Juno that felt like a quality build was the 106. The Juno Stage wasn't too bad. I may make a nice entry level board. This is going to compete with stuff like the MM6 and that cheap Korg thing, PS-6 or whatever it is called. Someone looking seriously $2000 board aint going to like this.

 

I agree. This competes with the PS60 and MX61.

[Bill W]

I agree. This competes with the PS60 and MX61.

 

It does seem to blow both of those away spec-wise.

[To B3]

Just the organ engine plus drawthings alone makes that true, IMHO. The other sounds, especially the synth thing looks pretty decent too. Hope to listen more vintage sounds like more agressive EPs and Clavs. And hope to find some mellotrons there too.

[Ken Beaumont]

I agree with the sentiment. Its not a Hammond or Nord killer, its not meant to be. But for a guy who plays $75 - $125 a night gigs and wants a second tier board or a small lightweight all in one this is right up their alley.

 

The fact they added a looper to it says to me the target is not a guy with with "Green Onions", "Whiter Shade of Pale", and anything by Booker T or Billy Preston on their set lists.

 

I have been contemplating getting an SK-1, this does give the cheap bastard in me pause.

[Sam Mullins]

I agree with the sentiment. Its not a Hammond or Nord killer, its not meant to be. But for a guy who plays $75 - $125 a night gigs and wants a second tier board or a small lightweight all in one this is right up their alley.

 

The fact they added a looper to it says to me the target is not a guy with with "Green Onions", "Whiter Shade of Pale", and anything by Booker T or Billy Preston on their set lists.

 

I agree it is not a Hammond or Nord killer, but apparently Roland thinks it is: at the end of their video they say "does an honest days work and won't put you in the red".

[AnotherScott]

I agree. This competes with the PS60 and MX61.

 

It does seem to blow both of those away spec-wise.

It's priced higher as well. So it likewise competes with the Krome and MOX61 which would be tougher competition. But the organ functionality gives it a nice edge.

[AnotherScott]

The fact they added a looper to it says to me the target is not a guy with with "Green Onions", "Whiter Shade of Pale", and anything by Booker T or Billy Preston on their set lists.

Not every potential customer needs to be targeted by every feature. The looper may extend its appeal to some groups, but won't make it less desirable to people looking for a low cost clonewheel. It will just be one more thing they don't use. Like a d-beam. ;-)

[Ken Beaumont]

Hey I used the D-Beam on my Juno-D at least twice!

 

The big question is "did they improve their leslie sim?"

I've seen a couple of videos but they really don't highlight enough for me to tell. I'm looking forward to demo one.

[Adan]

Krome and the VR09 both $999. The Krome is vastly superior in terms of what's underneath the hood, but the Roland is far more user-friendly for the unsophisticated player. If the Roland keybed is from from the Juno 50/80, that would give it another advantage.

 

I'm thinking of downsizing my rig to match my reduced gigging activity, and the Krome is very tempting. This VR09, not so much.

[Bill W]

It does look like the Juno G keybed to me...but until I get to touch one. So, the street price is $999? How about availability?

[Ekewaka]

I kind of understand Roland's thinking of an entry level organ engine ++ for those with a tighter budget. But I don't understand this target as younger musicians don't exactly play organ-style music and those who do this are usually in a middle-income level where they could afford a Nord and seldom care about loopers and synth patches.

[CEB]

The Juno Stage had that D-Beam ... vitual thermin thingy on it.

 

Funny thing was one of the local guys familiar with the rig showed it to me and check what this can do and showed me how to use it. I didn't but by golly this dude just loved that D-beam thing.

[Ken Beaumont]

Krome and the VR09 both $999. The Krome is vastly superior in terms of what's underneath the hood, but the Roland is far more user-friendly for the unsophisticated player. If the Roland keybed is from from the Juno 50/80, that would give it another advantage.

 

I think the other advantage is the drawbar organ. That really does differentiate it from the pack of $1k & under boards.

I think they saw the buzz over CASIO's XW-P1 last year and decided people still really want drawbars.