Leh173 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Hopefully it has that much grunt... Quote Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig MacDonald Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I'm hoping that Tonysounds or Hammonddave will provide some insight.. They're calling it a new "supernatural" organ but it sounds like the same old VK engine to me.. although perhaps tweaked a bit (leslie does sound a bit better in a couple of videos I've seen).. Quote Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I've just been comparing the iPad editors for the Jupiter series and Integra and the synth editor layout is exactly the same as the one in the VR-09 editor. Looks promising, I really hope it's the same SuperNATURAL synth engine. Really makes this board attractive to me if it is, even if it is only two part multi-timbal (excluding the GM engine) Quote Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 IMNSHO, that iPad interface for the drawbar organ is fugly. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig MacDonald Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 IMNSHO, that iPad interface for the drawbar organ is fugly. Joe I don't mind it, kind of weird colour scheme.. I notice one thing.. there's no overdrive or amp type on that screen I assume that's on the control panel somewhere? Doesn't the regular VK engine have 3-4 amp types? Quote Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I can't help thinking that the engines in this little keyboard would be cool in a little module a VR-09R perhaps. Same sounds, low price. Would be a cool addition to the Fantom G as they never bothered expanding the ARX series... Quote Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I can't help thinking that the engines in this little keyboard would be cool in a little module a VR-09R perhaps. Same sounds, low price. Would be a cool addition to the Fantom G as they never bothered expanding the ARX series... I would think that the piano and rompler tones are probably about the same as stuff that's already in the G. The funny thing is that this keyboard is cheaper than a VK-8M module! Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leh173 Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Yeah from what I heard in the videos the EPs and APs sound like (or very similar to) the Fantom ones, which suits me. The MFX are all the usual, which are generally excellent. I'm talking about the organ engine and if it is the supernatural synth engine, would be awesome additions to the G. Organs are the G's weakest area. Funnily enough for my current band, the VR-09 could actually replace the G for most songs! Quote Roland Fantom G6, D-70, JP-8000, Juno-106, JV-1080, Moog Minitaur, Korg Volca Keys, Yamaha DX-7. TG33, Logic Pro, NI plugs, Arturia plugs etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 IMNSHO, that iPad interface for the drawbar organ is fugly. Joe I don't mind it, kind of weird colour scheme. I think the colors are the least of the problems though the colors suck too. It's too large to post here without breaking this forum page, so here's a link for anyone that wants to see it. [bTW, I'm only bringing this up for my design sensibilities. If I wanted the VR-09 I'd put up with it. It's not a deal-breaker.] Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 IMNSHO, that iPad interface for the drawbar organ is fugly. Joe I don't mind it, kind of weird colour scheme. I think the colors are the least of the problems though the colors suck too. It's too large to post here without breaking this forum page, so here's a link for anyone that wants to see it. [bTW, I'm only bringing this up for my design sensibilities. If I wanted the VR-09 I'd put up with it. It's not a deal-breaker.] Yeah, that would have been a visual "wow" in a softsynth a decade ago. Today? Meh.... Quote A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 They are marketing this thing as a quick gig keyboard that someone could take on the subway.... Like a lot of the Roland keyboards, this keyboard is marketed towards the low end of the musical product lines.... I don't think you will see many high end pros choosing it. It's the "Moog Sub Phatty" of all-in-one keyboards.... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 They are marketing his thing as a quick gig keyboard that someone could take on the subway.... Like a lot of the Roland keyboards, this keyboard is marketed towards the low end of the musical product lines.... I don't think you will see many high end pros choosing it. I don't disagree. But Roland had a pro version of this board with a much better action, 76 keys, much higher build quality, XLR outs, more pedal ins, no wall wart, etc. and it didn't sell well. Everyone seemed to hate it even though it was priced competitively at $2000. That was the VR700. So now you have the VR09, which might have some improvements in the organ, and yes synth area, but the PCM sounds roughly the same. Had Roland put those sonic improvements in a pro unit like the VR700, at the $2000 price tag it would have been labeled VR version 3, DOA, no one would have said boo about it. What does that say to you about the importance of build quality and pro features as far as your average keyboard player is concerned? Busch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 What does that say to you about the importance of build quality and pro features as far as your average keyboard player is concerned? Busch. It says that the average player does not give a shit about build quality.... I was amazed at the crap on that floor. Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthiola Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 But Roland had a pro version of this board with a much better action, 76 keys, much higher build quality, XLR outs, more pedal ins, no wall wart, etc. and it didn't sell well. Now, that puzzles me too (btw, the VR700 sold out for approx. 1000 euros, incl VAT... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Roland had a pro version of this board with a much better action, 76 keys, much higher build quality, XLR outs, more pedal ins, no wall wart, etc. and it didn't sell well. Everyone seemed to hate it even though it was priced competitively at $2000. That was the VR700. If it had included aftertouch, the ability to send MIDI Program Changes in its user presets, and the ability to pan split sounds left and right, and if it had weighed under 30 lbs, I'd have definitely bought that one, even at a 10-20% higher price. Heck, I liked playing it so much that, I might have bought it as is if only it were notably lighter. And I'd have given up a few things to get there (I can live with a wall wart and without balanced outs). In hindsight, I'd also have liked the drawbars to have sent CC, though I hadn't thought about that at the time. If the VR-09 sells well, maybe they'll come out with a 73/76 key variation, especially since Nord and Hammond have multiple sizes. But I have a feeling we're stuck with the lower end action in this line regardless. I was also thinking they might update the Jupiter 50, at least to have the full organ functionality of the VR-09 (even if they keep the control surface the same and only provide the drawbar organ control via the iPad app). That would be, in a sense, close to a 76-key VR-09. And to prevent the sales of one product from cannibalizing another, that might be the smarter way to create an upsell product from the VR-09 anyway. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 But Roland had a pro version of this board with a much better action, 76 keys, much higher build quality, XLR outs, more pedal ins, no wall wart, etc. and it didn't sell well. Now, that puzzles me too (btw, the VR700 sold out for approx. 1000 euros, incl VAT... ) There was a reason for that - the sounds didn't live up to the physical package. The best thing about it was the great action. When Electro came out, it was game over. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig MacDonald Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 But Roland had a pro version of this board with a much better action, 76 keys, much higher build quality, XLR outs, more pedal ins, no wall wart, etc. and it didn't sell well. Now, that puzzles me too (btw, the VR700 sold out for approx. 1000 euros, incl VAT... ) There was a reason for that - the sounds didn't live up to the physical package. The best thing about it was the great action. When Electro came out, it was game over. There is a fundamental issue with the product and it starts with the fact the the VK engine is off the mark.. It just doesn't sound right.. I've heard people suggest various different things that they really like about it (C/V for example) and I just don't think it sounds authentic. If I feel that way then I'm sure a lot of others feel that way too.. Add to that the lack of separate outputs and the fact that a lot of serious organ players, want to process the organ differently (whether it's through a leslie or a preamp and a leslie or through a Ventilator).. .. bottom line if you come out with an instrument that is supposed to cover the bread and butter sounds (drawbar organ, AP/EP/Clav/strings etc.) and the fundamental sound is flawed and you have no ability to improve it, you're target market becomes very slim. That said, it's a whole different ball game at this price point especially if it has a bit better organ and a better leslie sim that is good enough to NOT require separate processing to sound good!! This VR-09 could really sell well. I'm probably going to buy one just rehearsals and small gigs.. 12 pounds $999 and all this power.. so what if it doesn't have waterfall keys.. The idea of a 12 pound keyoard, one QSCK10 and a stand a couple pedals and cables and I'm set to go.. that's a dream for an old guy like me!! Quote Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig MacDonald Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I see a lot of comments about build quality and I just want to toss this out there, but does the appearance of poor build quality necessarily mean poorer built quality.. I mean a switch or a button doesn't have to look or feel "substantial" to work well and be quite reliable.. does it? Are we really certain, as we criticize the build quality of some of the new stuff that it's really a fair criticism? I tend to think that time will only time will tell the real story.. (and if the build quality really is bad it won't take long).. Quote Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 The idea of a 12 pound keyoard, one QSCK10 and a stand a couple pedals and cables and I'm set to go.. that's a dream for an old guy like me!! And you can knock another 13 lbs off your carry weight if you used an EV ZXa1... the VR-09 and the EV together would weigh less than the K10 alone! (Won't go as loud, though.) Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I see a lot of comments about build quality and I just want to toss this out there, but does the appearance of poor build quality necessarily mean poorer built quality.. I mean a switch or a button doesn't have to look or feel "substantial" to work well and be quite reliable.. does it? Are we really certain, as we criticize the build quality of some of the new stuff that it's really a fair criticism? I tend to think that time will only time will tell the real story.. (and if the build quality really is bad it won't take long).. All you have to do is feel the materials like I did yesterday.... Believe me...It feels pretty crappy... Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthguy Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Even with all the "cheapness" from manufacturers this year, the quality of products at affordable prices is better than ever. You can get a VR-09 and King KORG and have almost everything a keyboard player would need as far as sound for a gig or studio for the price of a new Prophet 08. Throw in an RD-64 or new Privia for a few paychecks more and have something pretty darn portable that covers it all. For what you'd have to pay for a major synth purchase. Quote This keyboard solo has obviously been tampered with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hold on there! Let's keep politics out of this! Quote '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekewaka Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It's true that old-style wood panels and real metal is more sturdy. However modern plastics are very durable and it's a compromise between weight/cost. I could take it as I'm not that keen to drag 50lbs+ keyboards to gigs, just need good cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Just because keyboards don't look and feel like they did in 1973 doesn't mean they're not robust. It's simply not the case that Roland keyboards, even the cheaper ones, are falling apart left and right. I've been flogging my Gaia for quite awhile, and it keeps on ticking. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanker. Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I've been flogging my Gaia for quite awhileGet down Quote A ROMpler is just a polyphonic turntable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I've been flogging my Gaia for quite awhileGet down I've been flogging my lightweight one for years, only stopping when my right hand got sore, and it still kind of works. Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It's true that old-style wood panels and real metal is more sturdy. However modern plastics are very durable and it's a compromise between weight/cost. Also, reliability is not necessarily reflected in how solid something feels. A MemoryMoog is built like a tank, but is not exactly the most reliable keyboard ever made. Meanwhile, plenty of plastic chassis boards seem to work forever. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 It's true that old-style wood panels and real metal is more sturdy. However modern plastics are very durable and it's a compromise between weight/cost. Also, reliability is not necessarily reflected in how solid something feels. A MemoryMoog is built like a tank, but is not exactly the most reliable keyboard ever made. Meanwhile, plenty of plastic chassis boards seem to work forever. I hear you.... My lightweight mostly plastic PX330 takes a licking and keeps on ticking. I've had other far more expensive and heavier boards (e.g. one made by a company that begins with "Y") that were nothing but problems in terms of reliability. Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Judging an electronic device's apparent reliability based on physical and mechanical characteristics seems a bit odd, when you think about it. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 After listening to the demos, I'm very pleased with the Rock organ sounds. But have you also had a chance to hear how the clean "Jazz" organs sound as well? A variety of dirty and clean organs in this demo, starting at about 9 minutes in... [video:youtube] Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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