Solo gigs with just an iPad and a keyboard/MIDI controller? Is this a thing?

[summerinstereo]

Hopefully this thread isn't too redundant.

 

Basically, I was/am looking for a great do-it-all keyboard, but iPads have been mentioned a couple of times to me so now I'm seriously considering them.

 

Someone is selling an iPad Air 5 in near-new condition for a low enough price that I'm really wanting to look into this idea.

 

Is this a thing I can do, and would it be relatively hassle-free?

 

- iPad with whatever software I need on it

- MIDI controller/keyboard

 

Plug those into the mixer and off I go?

 

Is it as simple as that?

 

Anyone here playing solo gigs and just using a MIDI controller with an iPad?

 

If anything went wrong, I have my acoustic guitar. I could also opt for a keyboard rather than a pure MIDI controller. 

But I am interested in straight up MIDI controller route as well.

 

Doing this, can I have backing tracks running at the same time? Will it stop the audio if I switch apps?
How are you guys quickly changing instruments/sounds?

Sorry about all the questions - this idea is relatively new to me, I'm only actually considering it now.

I've managed to sell what I need to and would have a few hundred dollars left over, after buying the iPad Air 5, for a keyboard or MIDI controller.

 

Part of me is already regretting selling the Casio, because the keybed was nice.. I hadn't considered the iPad idea until after I'd sold things.. lol.

Oh well, it happens and now I'd love to hear how this works.

 

I'm not in a band - just a solo act that currently plays acoustic guitar, but would love to add more value to venues and that includes a "full band" sound - I'm not really opposed to backing tracks and I understand there's apps on iPad's for looping etc anyway.. it seems like an infinitely more versatile way to go.. just want to make sure it's practical.

[aronnelson]

The answer is that it's possible but I'm not sure you want to do this. If you are only going to run one app, like the Korg Module or some of those piano apps, yes it will work. But the iPad only has one port - and your audio interface will be connected to that. But you may have to charge, so you might need an adapter and then things get more fragile. You can use the headphone out, and I guess that might be ok. 

 

One thing that should be mentioned is that some iPads overheat and they just stop. On a couple of outdoor gigs, the guitarist's iPad just showed a temperature symbol. Thankfully mine never did, but it's something to think about. 

 

That being said, I take my iPad to every gig - but I don't use it for audio - well, not a sound generator. I have used it for backing tracks and it works well for that.

I'm sure others have used their iPads as sound modules way more than me. If I needed a sound module for my keyboard, I would probably try a used iPhone or something. It would probably work with something like Korg Module.

[Greg Mein]

2 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

Anyone here playing solo gigs and just using a MIDI controller with an iPad?

 

The problem I see with iPads is that there's only one in/out port for everything.

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

Anyone here playing solo gigs and just using a MIDI controller with an iPad?

 

Yes, I'm doing gigs like this. Solo & with bands.

 

2 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

Doing this, can I have backing tracks running at the same time? Will it stop the audio if I switch apps?
How are you guys quickly changing instruments/sounds?

 

I use a hosting app, AUM. There are others. All your instruments and backing tracks can live in the host, so you don't have to switch between apps and the audio won't stop. There are a few ways to switch sounds, it depends on how complex your needs are. I can assign a button on my midi controller to mute one sound and simultaneously un-mute another, that's one way. More involved presets with combinations of sounds might call for a different way, but it's very doable.

 

If you look around here you'll see quite a few threads on this subject.

[Reezekeys]

1 minute ago, Greg Mein said:

The problem I see with iPads is that there's only one in/out port for everything.

 

Until you attach the appropriate dongle or adapter. The conundrum with iPads is that the newer ones with USB-C can connect directly to a midi keyboard but there's no analog audio out. The older ones with headphone jacks give you the audio output, but you need a dongle/adapter to connect a midi keyboard. Either way you need a gizmo, but depending on what you choose to get, having multiple inputs and outputs for midi and audio doesn't have to be a problem.

[Greg Mein]

42 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Until you attach the appropriate dongle or adapter. The conundrum with iPads is that the newer ones with USB-C can connect directly to a midi keyboard but there's no analog audio out. The older ones with headphone jacks give you the audio output, but you need a dongle/adapter to connect a midi keyboard. Either way you need a gizmo, but depending on what you choose to get, having multiple inputs and outputs for midi and audio doesn't have to be a problem.

I'm interested in knowing more about how an ipad can be used live. I have an older one (I believe a 4) that's been sitting around a long time doing nothing. Way back I'd bought an IK Multimedia iRig MIDI unit and also a Line 6 Sonic Port but just never saw a practical use for either on gigs where, for years, I was already hauling a MBP with Digital Performer and MOTU interfaces to do MIDI/audio backing tracks with Roland/Korg boards.

[hrestov]

It’s simpler with a keyboard with internal audio interface. Only 1 cable from iPad and iPhone and the keyboard and you have good audio outputs. 
 

For software, I use Camelot pro. A similar to MainStage software. You can change sounds, sheets, play backing track. 
 

 

[summerinstereo]

3 minutes ago, hrestov said:

It’s simpler with a keyboard with internal audio interface. Only 1 cable from iPad and iPhone and the keyboard and you have good audio outputs. 
 

For software, I use Camelot pro. A similar to MainStage software. You can change sounds, sheets, play backing track. 

 

What's the setup look like with that?

 

How does it all connect?

 

 

[summerinstereo]

I'm asking because I have the money now to sort this out, but this iPad Air 5 won't stay up for long.

 

I need to figure out whether it's worth actually shifting towards ipad + midi for gigs, or if I should just pass on the whole idea and keep on with just hunting down a decent gigging keyboard.

[Paul Woodward]

As mentioned in another thread, some Yamaha boards (MODX, YC) have a USB interface for apple (ipad/phone) devices meaning one cable for audio and midi. I use the camera connection kit 3 which has a pass thru charge slot so I can run it on mains power if need be. I also bought the iPad 9 before I got a Yamaha YC61 as it is the last to have a headphone socket and I picked up a little Yamaha AG-03 USB powered mixer but haven't needed to use it yet.

Yes, a self contained board that has all you need (for now) is always a great idea, but this 'modular' approach offers flexibility and expandability.

For example. I can use the iPad with the YC-61 to effectively turn that board into a fully fledged 'workstation' should I need it, but without having to drag a workstation to gigs knowing I just need a keyboard with sounds (and I save the cost of something like a Kronos). I can also take it with a lightweight Roland A800 to rehearsals and output straight to the desk from the headphone socket. I can also connect the A800 to the YC as a second board to control the iPad and have the iPad sounds mixed with the YV through the stereo outs negating the need for a mixer at all. 

I always went for the 'one board to do it all' and found that a. I was updating boards every few years to get new sound engines or features and b. took expensive workstations to gigs and used maybe 30% of their potential.

 

By the way, I sold an iPad 5 and put a few hundred towards a brand new iPad 9 and its much faster and responsive. The iPad 5 will work fine, but 'might' lag a bit and be limited to polyphony in some apps such as module.

[summerinstereo]

30 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

As mentioned in another thread, some Yamaha boards (MODX, YC) have a USB interface for apple (ipad/phone) devices meaning one cable for audio and midi. I use the camera connection kit 3 which has a pass thru charge slot so I can run it on mains power if need be. I also bought the iPad 9 before I got a Yamaha YC61 as it is the last to have a headphone socket and I picked up a little Yamaha AG-03 USB powered mixer but haven't needed to use it yet.

Yes, a self contained board that has all you need (for now) is always a great idea, but this 'modular' approach offers flexibility and expandability.

For example. I can use the iPad with the YC-61 to effectively turn that board into a fully fledged 'workstation' should I need it, but without having to drag a workstation to gigs knowing I just need a keyboard with sounds (and I save the cost of something like a Kronos). I can also take it with a lightweight Roland A800 to rehearsals and output straight to the desk from the headphone socket. I can also connect the A800 to the YC as a second board to control the iPad and have the iPad sounds mixed with the YV through the stereo outs negating the need for a mixer at all. 

I always went for the 'one board to do it all' and found that a. I was updating boards every few years to get new sound engines or features and b. took expensive workstations to gigs and used maybe 30% of their potential.

 

By the way, I sold an iPad 5 and put a few hundred towards a brand new iPad 9 and its much faster and responsive. The iPad 5 will work fine, but 'might' lag a bit and be limited to polyphony in some apps such as module.

 

Fair call on the do-it-all boards.

 

The iPad in particular isn't an iPad 5 though - it's an iPad Air 5 - has the M1 chip and USB-C.. no headphone jack though.

 

I'll have to research as much as I can, can't expect this guy to hold onto it for more than a day, really.

The price is straight up awesome and if I wasn't in need of a gigging keyboard solution, I'd just get it anyway, regardless of any music intent.

 

Lots to look over and suss out.. overnight.. eh.

[Paul Woodward]

5 minutes ago, summerinstereo said:

 

Fair call on the do-it-all boards.

 

The iPad in particular isn't an iPad 5 though - it's an iPad Air 5 - has the M1 chip and USB-C.. no headphone jack though.

 

I'll have to research as much as I can, can't expect this guy to hold onto it for more than a day, really.

The price is straight up awesome and if I wasn't in need of a gigging keyboard solution, I'd just get it anyway, regardless of any music intent.

 

Lots to look over and suss out.. overnight.. eh.

Well, if you go for a Yamaha or one of the boards that integrates ipad midi/audio you wont even need the camera connection kit. If I had known I was getting the YC, I would probably have gone for the same as its just a standard USB C to USB B cable so cheaper and tidier 🙂 It would limit you to this sort of board though unless you get into hubs etc.

[Stokely]

I've done it with my Modx, as it has a one-cable set up to handle both midi and audio.  And my fallback option for any ipad sounds are those on the Modx.  You mentioned your acoustic is your backup plan.

In my experience, there are little hassles and glitches.  I use a camera connection kit with an extra port for charging, but if you let the ipad get too low (forgetting to charge) then you have to wait a bit to let it charge up a bit.   I've had a few times where the ipad just doesn't "see" the Modx (to respond to midi and/or to output audio to) and I have to restart/replug things until it works again.  There is more of a learning curve to using an ipad this way than in using the built-in sounds because I have to do "programming" on both sides to make it happen.

I'm all software at home but I personally wouldn't gig with either a laptop or ipad as my only sound source.  But as you say, if you have a backup plan that is a good thing.

[ewall08530]

For years I played solo with an iPad Air 2 playing iGrand with a Casio PX 5S. Later I added Korg Module for Wurlitzer and Rhodes. Simple to set up and use and I had the internal Casio sounds as a backup if the worst happened. 
 

I have an iPad Air 3 now which still has a headphone out but I only play Ravenscroft piano at home using a Casio PX S-3000. I currently gig with a Casio PX S-7000 so no need to use Piano apps.  
 

I like having an older iPad with the headphone out for audio and I use this common connector (below)  to connect the keyboard to the iPad and charge it at the same time.  
Maybe think about a refurbished iPad 2 or 3. 

[drawback]

16 minutes ago, ewall08530 said:

Maybe think about a refurbished iPad 2 or 3

I’d be more apt to invest in a 9th Gen iPad before they’re gone for good, and the headphone jack with it. And they’re the cheapest ones out there. In fact, I’m thinking about grabbing one and putting it away for when my 6th Gen’s battery won’t hold a charge anymore.

[AnotherScott]

9 hours ago, aronnelson said:

One thing that should be mentioned is that some iPads overheat and they just stop. On a couple of outdoor gigs, the guitarist's iPad just showed a temperature symbol. Thankfully mine never did, but it's something to think about. 

Definitely keep them out of the sun. (I've had the same thing happen when one was on the top of my dashboard being used as a GPS.) And preferably, get a light colored one over a dark, for extra safety any time some amount of sun-beating may be inevitable.

[yannis D]

39 minutes ago, drawback said:

I’d be more apt to invest in a 9th Gen iPad before they’re gone for good, and the headphone jack with it. And they’re the cheapest ones out there. In fact, I’m thinking about grabbing one and putting it away for when my 6th Gen’s battery won’t hold a charge anymore.

Got one.

Nice screen and enough ram to run Camelot or AUM without a problem. The audio input is a big plus, but it's even better to run in through a sound interface for live use...

[Reezekeys]

For USA folks, Best Buy and Target have the 9G at the lowest price I've seen yet, $250. That beats the deal I got this past December by $10. I like mine a lot, despite it being the lowest-spec'd iPad currently sold. It runs AUM holding multiple AUv3s and backing tracks, along with ForScore, at a low buffer with CPU to spare.

 

I'm glad I have that headphone out, but summerinstereo already has a nice iPad that works great for music so I would just get a good dongle/adapter that passes power, USB and has an audio output -  done. As far as whether to get a keyboard with sounds or only a controller, that's just personal preference. I'm a controller person but I've been doing it this way, starting with a laptop, for over 15 years. My A800 is a fraction of the price of a hardware board, super light and portable, and gives me all the buttons, faders, knobs & pads to configure my rig exactly how I want it. The thing is, I enjoy getting under the hood to make a customized setup that does exactly what I need – but not everyone wants to get that deep into the minutiae of midi programming, and I can see folks wanting the fallback option of sounds in a keyboard.

[Franz Schiller]

For folks that use the iPad with AUM or other "master" apps, how does it work when switching between songs? It seems like a drum machine app and everything would require going into a "files" pop up in several apps to change songs. Seems laborious, and time consuming between songs?

[Reezekeys]

16 minutes ago, Franz Schiller said:

For folks that use the iPad with AUM or other "master" apps, how does it work when switching between songs?

 

I load all the sounds I need at the beginning of the gig but my needs are probably simpler than others'. I use Midiflow to route midi into AUM. Midiflow has presets that can be called up with PC numbers from my keyboard. Each preset can do splitting and channelizing so only the sounds associated with that particular song are active.

 

It's also possible to assign a button on your midi controller to call up an entirely new AUM "session" with different instruments. I used to think this impractical for doing on a gig because my old iPad Air 2 took over 20 seconds to load my setup. My new iPad 9G can do it in around 7 seconds. Camelot may have the edge over AUM for this kind of thing, from what I've read on a few posts here.

[Reezekeys]

9 hours ago, Greg Mein said:

I'm interested in knowing more about how an ipad can be used live. I have an older one (I believe a 4) that's been sitting around a long time doing nothing.

 

I looked up the iPad 4th gen, that's kinda old and may be underpowered for what you need, depending on how much you'd be asking of it. To run one or two instruments at a medium buffer might work. I started with an Air 2 and had a workable setup but the CPU meter in AUM was hitting 80 - 90% occasionally and I heard a few audio artifacts once in a while. My Air 2 has the A8X chip and the iPad 4G has the A6X so it could be trouble. Also, according to Wikipedia your 4G iPad can only go to iPadOS 10.3.4; my old Air 2 can do up to 15.7.3. You'd have to make sure any software you get can run in an older OS. The good thing is i-apps are generally much cheaper to buy than Mac/PC plugins and anything you get will of course transfer to a newer iPad. If you're on a budget, the 9G is quite the bargain these days as I mentioned in a previous post in this thread.

[Stokely]

I would definitely get a newer one, for one thing at some point the IOS version won't support the older ones, and apps might (I say "might"!) get updated to only support the newer IOS version.   This is the kind of thing I do not like to worry about when it comes to live music, but it obviously is doable.

I would also get the 9th gen "regular" ipad.  For one thing, I know for sure that lightning will work with my CCK, and I'm not entirely sure if usb-c will work with all usb-b (square) cables.  On one hand, I'd love to ditch the cck although then how would I charge.  Then you have the headphone out, which is a nice backup plan for audio.   

I'm using a 5th gen and it has had plenty of power for B-3X and a couple synth apps when I tested, though I only gig with B-3X, a mixer app and a lyrics app (soon, Setlist maker but I haven't put in the setup work yet!)

[HammondDave]

I use a two year old iPad Pro with a direct MIDI connection to my MODX. (Before the MODX I had it connected to my MOJO 61). I trigger Korg Module Pro, Model D, and B3x on the iPad directly from the MODX. They are embedded in the performances in my Live Set List. In the three years I have used the iPad in this matter it has never failed during a gig. And I have access to any sound I want. 
 

I also bring a spare $300 MIDI keyboard to gigs just in case my MODX fails. Then it would be just a matter of plugging my iPad into it and playing. (Similar to what you are considering). Go for it!

 

 

 

[aronnelson]

There are also some sneaky weird things that I cannot explain. I added smoothing code to one of my drawing routines and all of a sudden I get reports that the drawing is lagging - but on unexpected iPads. I have an older Gen 6 and it just has no problems, but someone with an iPad Air 4 had problems. An iPad Pro 12.9 gen 3 had problems, but the first gen iPad Pro 12.9 didn't.

 

I know people run sample tank and other apps at the same time as my app, but all I have ever done is use backing tracks and wireless MIDI along with slaved iPad for switching charts. The lower end keyboards are sounding pretty decent nowadays and I still trust a dedicated keyboard more than an iPad for the main sounds.

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I'm glad I have that headphone out, but summerinstereo already has a nice iPad

 

Here I go quoting myself. I just realized after re-reading this thread that summerinstereo does not have this "nice iPad"... they were considering it for purchase. I should pay attention better, sorry!

 

Either way - with the Air 5 you were looking at, or the 9G I and several others recommended, you'll be OK.

[Paul Woodward]

3 hours ago, drawback said:

I’d be more apt to invest in a 9th Gen iPad before they’re gone for good, and the headphone jack with it. And they’re the cheapest ones out there. In fact, I’m thinking about grabbing one and putting it away for when my 6th Gen’s battery won’t hold a charge anymore.

This was my thinking. Currys price matched Amazon so got it for £308

[Greg Mein]

2 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I looked up the iPad 4th gen, that's kinda old and may be underpowered for what you need, depending on how much you'd be asking of it.

I have a newer ipad, wasn't even sure but just looked and it's apparently a 6th gen. I'd still want something newer before pursuing this but right now I'm just curious for possible future reference.

 

For years I've used MBPs loaded with DP and MOTU interfaces for live backing tracks I've meticulously created myself. Originally inspired by Keyboard Magazine articles in the 90's I used this basic setup with bands and also carried it over when my wife and I became a duo. Within that context MIDI control and automation are just as important as audio.

We're currently working with some other musicians and may break away from tracks but I want to keep up with the technology and like the idea of making things lighter, simpler, etc..

[Reezekeys]

10 minutes ago, Greg Mein said:

I have a newer ipad, wasn't even sure but just looked and it's apparently a 6th gen. I'd still want something newer before pursuing this but right now I'm just curious for possible future reference.

 

The 6G iPad has a A-chip newer than my Air 2 (A10 vs A8X) so I'm sure you'll have no problems if you want to get started now rather than wait to buy a newer iPad. Especially if you're just playing audio file backing tracks and sending midi to hardware keyboards. Those tasks aren't very CPU-intensive like playing a virtual instrument can be. I use MIDI Tape Recorder on my iPad, a free app that's a 4-track midi recorder/player. It doesn't do editing so you have to prepare your midi tracks elsewhere then transfer to the iPad.

[sunspot]

8 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

For USA folks, Best Buy and Target have the 9G at the lowest price I've seen yet, $250. That beats the deal I got this past December by $10. I like mine a lot, despite it being the lowest-spec'd iPad currently sold. It runs AUM holding multiple AUv3s and backing tracks, along with ForScore, at a low buffer with CPU to spare.

 

I'm glad I have that headphone out, but summerinstereo already has a nice iPad that works great for music so I would just get a good dongle/adapter that passes power, USB and has an audio output -  done. As far as whether to get a keyboard with sounds or only a controller, that's just personal preference. I'm a controller person but I've been doing it this way, starting with a laptop, for over 15 years. My A800 is a fraction of the price of a hardware board, super light and portable, and gives me all the buttons, faders, knobs & pads to configure my rig exactly how I want it. The thing is, I enjoy getting under the hood to make a customized setup that does exactly what I need – but not everyone wants to get that deep into the minutiae of midi programming, and I can see folks wanting the fallback option of sounds in a keyboard.

Reezekeys, thank you for the heads up on the 9G.  It really is depressing that the headphone jack is gone on iPad mini (I snagged a mini 5, the last that had one), iPad 10G, iPad Air, iPad Pro ("Pro" with no audio out, really??)

 

However, I showed Best Buy and Target this morning both having the 64GB 9G at $320, not $250.  I'll keep my eyes peeled though, sounds like the 9G will be the last headphone jack-equipped one of them all.  SHAME.  SHAME.

[summerinstereo]

Thanks for the comments here - insightful and handy.

 

@Reezekeys - I purchased the iPad Air 5 this morning, it's in excellent condition - I'm going to give this idea a shot!

The price was too good to pass up, I'd probably have picked it up anyway even if I wasn't thinking of using it for music, if the whole idea falls apart - I can resell it and profit literally hundreds of dollars so there's no loss on my end.

 

I'm absolutely kicking myself for selling my Casio CDP-130 now. I sold it yesterday morning, I just didn't think about the iPad thing before I'd already sold it.. sucks so much, now I need a MIDI keyboard or controller. But the Casio would have been perfectly fine, the keybed felt great and it was 88 weighted keys.

There's nothing along those lines locally at a decent price. So that side of things is a small fail.

 

I do have an Akai Mini Play Mk3 however, and have purchased the adapter I need to so I will be hooking it all up and getting it to work as soon as the iPad is charged and updates the iOS.

 

I sold a BOSS RC-600 to help fund this idea, and I have to say, I don't regret it. Genuinely think I've made the right choice here already. 

Super excited.

 

I'll update the thread later on with what I've done and whatever, if it's working, just so people that have been thinking about this idea can get a feel for how the experience went for someone that's new to the idea.