Solo gigs with just an iPad and a keyboard/MIDI controller? Is this a thing?

[MathOfInsects]

12 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Cool stuff you said

I was thinking that since you are among the farthest down this rabbit hole, if you ever got the urge to do a tutorial or rig rundown video, it could help a lot of folks on the board. Your efficient rig is pretty cool....!

[summerinstereo]

Setting it up was simple as heck and it worked instantly.

 

I used a hub that has 4x USB A inputs on it and a USB-C power input - and obviously the end connector is a USB-C so it can go into the iPad.

 

It was seriously as simple as.. plug things in and that was that, it just worked instantly - I tested it in Garageband, will maybe spend some time finding a DAW I like for the iPad in the future, I thought I had Logic at some point but it's not even in the app store and I've just realised it's actually not even available on iPad or iPhone - I must have some vague recollection of using it on a friends Mac.

 

I hooked up my Focusrite Scarlett Solo to the hub via USB, same deal with my Akai MPK Mini Play Mk3 and it all just worked straight away - the Focusrite is hooked up to some PC speakers at the moment, there's zero delay or anything, even monitoring my vocals had no noticeable delay and I should mention that phantom power worked perfectly fine as I tested it with a Rode NT1-A.

 

This whole process went as smoothly as I hoped it would, I don't see a need for me to pick up Mainstage yet besides just to test and mess around with it, maybe I will, but picking up a cheap keyboard is a higher priority.

 

The sounds built into Garageband were great as is, but I'm not going to want to be doing things that way live (unless it's fluid enough).

 

I didn't have to choose anything, never had to go into any menu and choose the Focusrite or what MIDI controller I wanted to use, it was just instant - makes sense I guess as the iPad only has 1 in/out, but the simplicity of literally just plugging it in and it working perfectly was super awesome haha.

[AnotherScott]

The big limitation with garageband is that it is MIDI "Omni" only. So it's okay if that's all you're running, but you can't run it simultaneously with any other apps, because it will respond to everything, it can't be selective and only respond on one MIDI channel, to allow you to trigger something else on a different MIDI channel.

 

[Reezekeys]

3 hours ago, sunspot said:

I showed Best Buy and Target this morning both having the 64GB 9G at $320, not $250.

 

I'm really sorry, I was going by this post on Ben's Bargains - I just noticed it's a week old!

 

https://bensbargains.com/bargain/apple-ipad-10-2-64gb-wi-fi-tablet-9th-gen-2021-847386/?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=dealpage&utm_campaign=deal

 

When I went to the stores'web sites I saw the price had gone back up, as you noticed. I just marked it dead on Ben's.

[summerinstereo]

20 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

The big limitation with garageband is that it is MIDI "Omni" only. So it's okay if that's all you're running, but you can't run it simultaneously with any other apps, because it will respond to everything, it can't be selective and only respond on one MIDI channel, to allow you to trigger something else on a different MIDI channel.

 

 

Yeah, I figured for some reason that GarageBand isn't the way to go live - it's just not set up for that, unless I wanted to just do a straight up piano/keys gig or something - in which case, there's better keyboard sounds elsewhere.

 

The keyboards are the weakest part of the sounds in GarageBand imo - they sound better than some, but idk, to me they're not very realistic, I did download a keyboard pack as well (some free one).

 

The other sounds though, really liked them - the drums, basses and synths sounds great to me. The synths especially.

[Reezekeys]

25 minutes ago, summerinstereo said:

Setting it up was simple as heck and it worked instantly.

 

That's great, an actual success story - you don't see that too much here, we love to complain about stuff though!

 

There are a few other DAWs for iOS besides GarageBand. I found this web page which describes a few. I have no advice to give on this subject because I do all my DAW-ing on my Mac. I use AUM to host all my instrument plugins and play backing tracks. I'm happy with AUM but Camelot is another host and there may be more, each will have it's advantages in certain areas I'm sure.

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, MathOfInsects said:

I was thinking that since you are among the farthest down this rabbit hole, if you ever got the urge to do a tutorial or rig rundown video, it could help a lot of folks on the board. Your efficient rig is pretty cool....!

 

Thanks, I was thinking of doing something like this - I'm hesitant only because I can't see other folks wanting to inhabit the same rabbit hole I'm in! I think I may have a pretty singular way of doing things that most others might not find too helpful. I have very few presets in my rig, use only bread & butter sounds, don't use set lists, don't need to load different setups during a gig, etc. I was thinking of doing a video showing my iPhone SE 2016 rig at an AWB gig - but our first one this year isn't until April, so it could be a while!

[summerinstereo]

Okay so iPad doesn't have MainStage either. So, no MainStage for live stuff and no Logic for a DAW.

GarageBand is fun as heck though - I'd be fine with that if I can DL new VSTs or whatever and get that happening - I absolutely want/need a better piano sound than what's in the box.

 

That said, the beat sequencer is awesome - I had it all hooked up to my EV50M just now, with my acoustic guitar and mic ready to go (both separately, almost like a normal acoustic gig, but, with the iPad connected as well).

 

It's cool as heck that I can just stand there and make a beat on the spot, and it auto-loops, with absolutely no effort on my end - I can pick the tempo before I go as well, there's a few different kits but honestly I'm fine with re-using the same kits for songs that aren't that different from each other. I'd dig being able to add more kits though.

 

Anyway the reason I came in here and mentioned this, is because within about 5 seconds flat, I realised the potential this already has for completely changing up my live shows. I can create a beat on the fly and jam acoustic guitar with it - which obviously means I can create songs on the fly, sure there's no bass line (yet..), but it's not really necessary to go over the top full-band as one guy on an acoustic guitar, really, I'll get to adding more stuff anyway.

 

Just the ease of use with the beat sequencer was fantastic though, worked beautifully, zero issues - I wasn't actually using the MPK Mini either, I just pressed them into the grid on the iPad itself haha..

 

I'm not sure if GarageBand is capable of it - but for this to be even cooler and more practical, it would be awesome to drop percussive elements out and bring them back in - I don't see any way to "mute" an element in the beat sequencer at the moment. I'll explore some more.

Then of course, a way to shift into a "chorus" would be cool - although for that, I'm thinking the above trick would work, I would simply start the song with the "chorus", and then remove the "extra" parts on the fly.

 

I haven't spent enough time with GarageBand to see if it's capable of the above, so this is all just ideas, but it's super exciting and I'm already looking forward to see what more the iPad can bring to the table. Even doing what I was just doing, is awesome. Just creating a percussive loop on the fly, and jamming on guitar + singing, super fun, adds something cool/unique to my live stuff too.

 

I've got a gig tomorrow night and already feel comfortable enough with doing what I was just doing. I will 100% lay down some loops on the spot and jam some tunes out.

 

It's way cooler than a footpedal looper. I vastly prefer controlling it with my hands. I understand that sounds stupid as I'm playing acoustic guitar, but I got this and it'll be more practical and awesome when I get another keyboard.

 

If GarageBand has a way to let me loop what I'm playing, ie, not just the beat sequencer, then that would be next-level awesome.

 

 

[Paul Woodward]

GarageBand lets you add external instruments, not in the VST sense, but any other audio app you have. Probably better to use something like AUM though.

[summerinstereo]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

GarageBand lets you add external instruments, not in the VST sense, but any other audio app you have. Probably better to use something like AUM though.

Ah, fair enough. I’ll have to pick up AUM - is there any other “must have” apps I should be picking up on the iPad, for music?

 

I’ll wind up picking up FL Studio mobile at some point - keen to know about any others I should be picking up.

[yannis D]

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

 

 

I’ll wind up picking up FL Studio mobile at some point - keen to know about any others I should be picking up.

You should try Korg Module and test the add ons. It has many useful sounds and you can purchase (Scarbee Rhodes and wurlie, Ivory grand etc for little money). It runs as a standalone for simpler setups (when you don't really need fancy layering) and within AUM or Camelot with multiple instances. Good thing about Module is that you can download it for free and then buy the premium version if you're happy with it, same for the add ons 

[Stokely]

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20 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I use a two year old iPad Pro with a direct MIDI connection to my MODX. (Before the MODX I had it connected to my MOJO 61). I trigger Korg Module Pro, Model D, and B3x on the iPad directly from the MODX. They are embedded in the performances in my Live Set List. In the three years I have used the iPad in this matter it has never failed during a gig. And I have access to any sound I want. 
 

I also bring a spare $300 MIDI keyboard to gigs just in case my MODX fails. Then it would be just a matter of plugging my iPad into it and playing. (Similar to what you are considering). Go for it!

 

(snip big pics)

 

That is quite similar to  my current rig:  Modx with SK pro, with ipad...though if I bring the sk pro I tend not to use B-3X.  I also have Model D and have considered using it and Zeeon (for poly synth) but I've been able to program some pretty decent sounds on the Modx so haven't worked those in.  Analog Xperience library helped as well, I picked that up and it's nice.

Anyway good to know the direct usb-c to Modx works.  Looks like you are going into a hub and not using a usb-c to usb-b (square) cable directly?  I probably will be as well once I get setlist maker going so that it can send program changes to both keyboards.   Do you have a way to charge your ipad pro at the gig?  Also, do you use any kind of "mainstage" functionality to manage the apps (AUM, Camelot etc)?  In my testing I let three of them just run standalone and it worked as long as they could send background audio--I just sent messages to each via a different midi channel.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

Ah, fair enough. I’ll have to pick up AUM - is there any other “must have” apps I should be picking up on the iPad, for music?

 

Search past threads, there are a number of apps that can do the same kinds of things, and people have different preferences. AUM may be the right choice, but you might prefer Camelot Pro or Keystage. There are some others that can do some similar management/routing of MIDI to different destinations, but those three seem to be the main ones these days.

[Reezekeys]

   

4 hours ago, yannis D said:

You should try Korg Module and test the add ons. It has many useful sounds and you can purchase (Scarbee Rhodes and wurlie, Ivory grand etc for little money). It runs as a standalone for simpler setups (when you don't really need fancy layering) and within AUM or Camelot with multiple instances. Good thing about Module is that you can download it for free and then buy the premium version if you're happy with it, same for the add ons 

 

Just a quick heads-up on the Korg Module free vs pro. I have the free version, and what's cool is that, as yannis D says, you can add the premium sounds to it as well. I think Korg may be unique in that they give you a week to demo the sounds. I have the Scarbee Rhodes but tried the Wurly and Ivory piano and passed on those two. The pro version adds features that may or may not be useful. There's a comparison chart about 3/4 of the way down this web page: https://www.korg.com/us/products/software/korg_module/specifications.php.

 

Some of those Pro functions can be done with Module loaded as an AUv3 in AUM. You can pay to unlock them too. I got a surprise when I plugged my NanoKontrol into my iPad and the pro features unlocked - all features I won't use!

[summerinstereo]

Somewhat irrelevant update but the ipad is already awesome and I'm not even using it for this yet. 

 

The Quicksmart app for my ev50 is way better on the iPad and I used to stream a Spotify playlist as background music from my phone which is obviously risky for many reasons.

 

I've got the ipad streaming my background music - still Bluetoothed from Spotify - right now as I'm on a break.

 

iPad doesn't have a SIM though and no messenger or social media. So nobody will call or whatever, less risk of that coming through the PA lol

 

Already love it.

 

I got songbook pro again as I do on my phone (android), but since it's not the same platform I'd have to buy it again. Tbh I probably will get it and hope it syncs but, I don't think I'll use it for setlists etc.. I don't want to use the same device for lyrics and sounds etc just seems risky, I could accidentally swipe something away too easily by messing with multiple apps being open.

 

I'll still get it because I'd like the option to use it for setlists etc instead of my phone anyway, and if I get a keyboard that has sounds ie not a straight up MIDI controller, then I can use it for low key cafe gigs etc without the full band stuff going on, just use the keyboards sounds instead of the ipad.

 

 

Love it. Do not regret this so far.

 

Not super relevant to the thread but so far it's a huge win.

[Reezekeys]

3 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

I don't want to use the same device for lyrics and sounds etc just seems risky, I could accidentally swipe something away too easily by messing with multiple apps being open.

 

On my 8-year-old iPad Air 2, I was using ForScore for my charts along with my AUM setup with multiple instruments, also Midiflow for routing midi. No problems. I'm pretty sure your Air 5 is more than powerful enough to do lyrics and sounds. Accidental swipes, well that's on you! When I'm reading charts on ForScore, the entire screen area is used so any swiping is not gonna do anything to my sounds. If the app you use to display lyrics is like that (full screen) I wouldn't be too worried.

[HammondDave]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:58 AM, Stokely said:

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That is quite similar to  my current rig:  Modx with SK pro, with ipad...though if I bring the sk pro I tend not to use B-3X.  I also have Model D and have considered using it and Zeeon (for poly synth) but I've been able to program some pretty decent sounds on the Modx so haven't worked those in.  Analog Xperience library helped as well, I picked that up and it's nice.

Anyway good to know the direct usb-c to Modx works.  Looks like you are going into a hub and not using a usb-c to usb-b (square) cable directly?  I probably will be as well once I get setlist maker going so that it can send program changes to both keyboards.   Do you have a way to charge your ipad pro at the gig?  Also, do you use any kind of "mainstage" functionality to manage the apps (AUM, Camelot etc)?  In my testing I let three of them just run standalone and it worked as long as they could send background audio--I just sent messages to each via a different midi channel.

 

The only reason I use a hub is to have a power outlet for my iPad.

[D. Gauss]

for me, one of these hubs (see below), plus an ipad mini 6 (with a 80 or 100 watt charger), and a casio ct-s1000v lets you use the ipad for sounds, etc. plus, the casio (since it has internal sounds and accompaniment) serves as extra sounds, wireless bluetooth midi connection, and a failsafe backup if things go south on the gig.  a 12 lb rig you can take on the subway under one arm..

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09BTKPGVW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[summerinstereo]

I've tested out KORG Module and Gadget and really like both, even just the free versions.

 

The workflow on Gadget seems super smooth.

 

Is there any reason to get AUM if I was to get Gadget?

 

Can the two work together at all?

 

I understand Module can work with AUM.

 

I haven't spent any money on these yet and just want to get an understanding of how it would all work in a live situation.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

IIRC, Korg Gadget does not respond to MIDI Program Change, which probably makes it pretty useless for live performance, you'd have to manipulate stuff on the screen to change sounds. Or I guess you could assign (up to 16?) sounds to different MIDI channels, and as long as those were the only sounds you needed for the set, you could switch among them provided you were using a keyboard controller that allowed you to easily switch which MIDI channel(s) you were transmitting on.

[Paul Woodward]

Set list in Module changes with the program change on my YC, in fact I had to turn it off as it doesn’t understand the change of ‘bank’, so you essentially just get 10 sets that can do this. Sure there is some way of getting around it though 

[Reezekeys]

I would go with a 3rd-party host like AUM or Camelot, you'll probably have more options for setting up a rig. I don't know Gadget, but from my quick reading of their web page it seems like you'd be limited to specific Korg instruments – could be wrong though.

 

AUM lets you load AUv3s from any company, also mp3 files to use as backing tracks, plus effects. There are some free AUv3 instruments that sound pretty good too (one is KQ Dixie which I use for FM sounds), and some nice free efx plugins (Zero Reverb, LRC5 and LRC7 EQs). Everything can be mapped to midi controls - starting & stopping mp3s, adjusting reverb & eq, loading new setups, mixing levels, etc. I have everything I need mapped to controls on my Roland keyboard so don't have to look at the iPad's screen.

 

I'm not sure you'd be able to get the kind of choices and options with the Korg Gadget. Of course Module runs as an AUv3 in AUM; I have three instances loaded, Scarbee Rhodes, strings, and clav.

[Baldwin Funster]

In my case B3X doesn't like AUM which sucks because I want to use plug in fx with the organ.

The keys work but pulling drawbars causes glitching.

[Reezekeys]

That does suck - is this something others have reported when using B3X in AUM? My organ needs are simple, so Galileo works for me. I haven't tried mapping to drawbars, I just use two presets. B3X is one expensive piece of iOS software, I would be chasing down the cause of this behavior. Have you tried using B3X in IAA mode?

[drawback]

I find running B-3X simultaneously with other high-resource instruments in AUM or Camelot can be too much for my iPad to handle. Some will play better than others, but the big dogs are Ravenscroft, Neo Soul Studio 2 and Pure Synth Platinum. 

[AnotherScott]

33 minutes ago, drawback said:

I find running B-3X simultaneously with other high-resource instruments in AUM or Camelot can be too much for my iPad to handle. Some will play better than others, but the big dogs are Ravenscroft, Neo Soul Studio 2 and Pure Synth Platinum. 

so it sounds like you issue might not be any one of them... but rather an issue of running a given pair of them (or more), i.e. maybe B-3X can run fine for you with other apps, but not necessarily *those* other apps. Which iPad are you using? 

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

Set list in Module changes with the program change on my YC, in fact I had to turn it off as it doesn’t understand the change of ‘bank’, so you essentially just get 10 sets that can do this. Sure there is some way of getting around it though 

I would like to dig into this as I am trying to get the set list on Korg Module to change songs with the set list on the MODX. Is that what is happening with you and the YC?

[drawback]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

so it sounds like you issue might not be any one of them... but rather an issue of running a given pair of them (or more), i.e. maybe B-3X can run fine for you with other apps, but not necessarily *those* other apps. Which iPad are you using? 

Yes, those particular apps don’t play nice with each other, and Ravenscroft has always been the least cooperative in terms of unstable bit rate. Less demanding apps such as Soft Drummer, VTines, iFretless Bass are fine.
 

6th Generation (2018) 

2GB RAM (I believe)

A10 Fusion chip with 64-bit architecture

Embedded M10 coprocessor

 

 

[Paul Woodward]

2 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I would like to dig into this as I am trying to get the set list on Korg Module to change songs with the set list on the MODX. Is that what is happening with you and the YC?

Not sure how it is with the MODX, but the YC has 1.1 up to 1.10, then it goes 2.1 etc. Currently, if I choose any of the first ten, the Module set list changes accordingly, but changing 'bank' so to speak to 2.1 does not advance to the next set list. 

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, HammondDave said:

I would like to dig into this as I am trying to get the set list on Korg Module to change songs with the set list on the MODX. Is that what is happening with you and the YC?

On MODX, the best approach would be to use the Zone Master function,  which allows you to associate any external Program Change (up to 8 of them actually) with any Performance. 

 

https://yamahasynth.com/learn/montage/zone-master-faq-mastering-montage