Solo gigs with just an iPad and a keyboard/MIDI controller? Is this a thing?

[summerinstereo]

8 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

I would go with a 3rd-party host like AUM or Camelot, you'll probably have more options for setting up a rig. I don't know Gadget, but from my quick reading of their web page it seems like you'd be limited to specific Korg instruments – could be wrong though.

 

AUM lets you load AUv3s from any company, also mp3 files to use as backing tracks, plus effects. There are some free AUv3 instruments that sound pretty good too (one is KQ Dixie which I use for FM sounds), and some nice free efx plugins (Zero Reverb, LRC5 and LRC7 EQs). Everything can be mapped to midi controls - starting & stopping mp3s, adjusting reverb & eq, loading new setups, mixing levels, etc. I have everything I need mapped to controls on my Roland keyboard so don't have to look at the iPad's screen.

 

I'm not sure you'd be able to get the kind of choices and options with the Korg Gadget. Of course Module runs as an AUv3 in AUM; I have three instances loaded, Scarbee Rhodes, strings, and clav.

 

I believe you're right about being locked into KORG's instruments with Gadget - I've only checked out the free ones, but they sound great - I make synthwavey/electronic music (with vocals) and think there's plenty of great sounds in there already. I imagine there's plenty more in the full version + buying add-ons over time.

 

But, maybe it's better to just use AUM and pick up some AUv3s that I like and use them instead.. otherwise, there's too many things going on.. I don't really want my live sounds and DAW sounds to be so different from one another.. prefer to simplify things by using (and getting to know/learn!) the same ones.. so maybe Gadget isn't the right choice for my situation.

 

If I wasn't intending to gig with this, I really think I'd be happy with Gadget (and Module). Really does sound great.

 

Have you got any experience with Loopy Pro? If so, who would that be for VS AUM?

Asking because Loopy Pro comes up a lot in recent YT vids, and it appears to be something of an AUM competitor - I've downloaded it and have been testing it out a little.. not enough to form any opinions though.

 

I haven't actually decided how I want to get things happening at gigs just yet - exploring the options.

[hrestov]

Loopy is good, but is made for loop mainly. 
It’s also auv3, You can use it inside Aum or Camelot. But it’s better to use it in foreground, not background. 
 

Like Aum, you can use Loopy if you have a few sounds to load in a gig. If you use 20/30 different sound in a entire gig it’s better and simpler Camelot, that loads only the auv3 that you need for each specific song, and not all the auv3 for the entire gig. Like mainstage. 

[MalH]

I've been running an iPad as my main sound generator for the past couple of years but am about to go back to a hardware solution. The reason is latency. I have been running various hosts (Module, Auria or AUM hosting AUV3) all with a buffer of 128 @44kHz but there is still a very slight difference between the responsiveness compared to hardware. Last week I decided to quantify this by recording the outputs of my audio interface (iConnect Audio2+) hosting Module in parallel with the outputs of my keyboard (Casio PX5S). After optimising latency as much as I could, I could not get the interface to respond faster than 10ms slower than the hardware. This is not huge, but is like moving your monitor speaker about 3.4m further away, which does change the way you play. I will still use my iPad for pads, but for piano, epiano and organ I will stick with hardware. 

[MalH]

1 hour ago, MalH said:

Last week I decided to quantify this by recording the outputs of my audio interface (iConnect Audio2+) hosting Module in parallel with the outputs of my keyboard (Casio PX5S). After optimising latency as much as I could, I could not get the interface to respond faster than 10ms slower than the hardware.

I'd very much appreciate it if someone who has a Numa X were able to perform a similar test e.g. create a setup that sends an internal piano sound to the left stereo output and a Korg Module piano panned to the right channel and record the output playing a few isolated notes. You can get the latency by looking at the wave in any DAW or post it here.

[Stokely]

I haven't noticed latency using my Modx as interface.  That's with playing B-3X (organ) so I think it should be very noticeable.   It was definitely a concern going in.   I'm sure there must be some (always is) but it hasn't bothered me.  

The Modx makes a great midi controller with "fallback option" of internal sounds, the main drawback for some would be the uber-light action with no aftertouch.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, MalH said:

I've been running an iPad as my main sound generator for the past couple of years but am about to go back to a hardware solution. The reason is latency. I have been running various hosts (Module, Auria or AUM hosting AUV3) all with a buffer of 128 @44kHz but there is still a very slight difference between the responsiveness compared to hardware. Last week I decided to quantify this by recording the outputs of my audio interface (iConnect Audio2+) hosting Module in parallel with the outputs of my keyboard (Casio PX5S). After optimising latency as much as I could, I could not get the interface to respond faster than 10ms slower than the hardware. This is not huge, but is like moving your monitor speaker about 3.4m further away, which does change the way you play. I will still use my iPad for pads, but for piano, epiano and organ I will stick with hardware. 

Out of curiosity, which iPad do you have?

[Reezekeys]

In terms of latency I was fine even with my old Air 2, and now with my 9G. Then again I'm using the headphone outs, not an external interface so maybe that has something to do with it. On the Air 2 my full AUM setup needed a 256 buffer which I could feel sometimes, but 99% of the time when I was on the gig playing I didn't really notice. I leave my 9G at 128 and it works and feels fine, with not much of a CPU hit as reported by AUM (in the 20-30% range). I could probably go to a lower buffer but since I'll probably be adding more "stuff" to this rig and I'm happy at 128, I'm gonna leave it there.

[MalH]

22 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Out of curiosity, which iPad do you have?

I'm using a 2nd Gen iPad Pro 12.9". As I mentioned, the latency is not large, but I noticed recently when I switched to playing a couple of hardware instruments in rehearsals that everything felt more immediate. It was subtle, but large enough to make a difference to my playing. Maybe it's my interface, so a comparison on a keyboard with audio interface such as the Numa X or Yamaha YC would be interesting.

[AnotherScott]

1 minute ago, MalH said:

I'm using a 2nd Gen iPad Pro 12.9". As I mentioned, the latency is not large, but I noticed recently when I switched to playing a couple of hardware instruments in rehearsals that everything felt more immediate. It was subtle, but large enough to make a difference to my playing. Maybe it's my interface, so a comparison on the Numa X or Yamaha YC would be an interesting comparison.

Yes, that comparison would be interesting. Another interesting comparison would be to see if the latency was any different through the interface than if you'd used the headphone out of the iPad.

[yannis D]

FYI, when I test my iPad 9th gen (Ravenscroft through AUM or Camelot) and my MacBook pro (late2012) (internal Mainstage piano) with my Nord, the iPad usually has a slightly shorter latency than the Mac compared to my Nord's piano

 

[summerinstereo]

Picked up Neo Soul Keys and Synthmaster 2 - might have the names a little wrong.

Also grabbed AUM and Drambo. Still unsure on Loopy Pro, might pick it up - I'll probably get a keyboard before that.

 

There's a Juno DS 61 for sale locally at an okay price - I offered less than he's asking for and am hoping I haven't made an offer comically low.. offered $400aud when he's got it up for $500aud. I've had plenty of success doing that in the past and am open to negotiations etc when I'm the seller.. but feeling a bit silly doing it when it's a Juno DS.. I've been wanting a Juno DS for a while now, I feel that along with the Fantom's, they're the best fit for what I'm looking to do. 

 

Really hope he responds, I would pay the full asking price if necessary. I've got everything all ready to go and don't have the uh, keyboard. LOL.

 

Anyway, everything is awesome so far - I can still use everything I've picked up with my MPK Mini Play, Neo Soul Keys is just *chef's kiss*. Absolutely love the sound.

 

Haven't chose a main "piano" sound. I would absolutely love to get this Juno. 61 keys is less than ideal for me, but portability is a factor considering I gig so often.. so it's probably a "for the best" kinda option anyway. I'd have preferred 76.

 

I've used the iPad out at 2 gigs now for what it's worth, solo acoustic gigs so.. nothing keys specific, but rather iPad specific, and again, having the Quicksmart app for my EV50 on there is infinitely better than using the phone. Can't wait to get a decent keyboard and start really using everything, practicing and eventually gigging it.

[AnotherScott]

Juno DS is a nice board, but for use primarily as an iPad controller, there are some other models that also might be worth consideration. Assuming you're looking for it primarily as an iPad controller but also want it to have some sounds of its own as fallback, Korg Kross is more adept at sending MIDI Program Changes to the iPad, while Casio CT-S500 has what I think are the best feeling keys of the three (i.e. for piano playing) and has built-in speakers which might come in handy for you in some cases. Though there are very big differences among these boards in the capabilities they have in terms of their internal sounds, too.

[summerinstereo]

8 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Juno DS is a nice board, but for use primarily as an iPad controller, there are some other models that also might be worth consideration. Assuming you're looking for it primarily as an iPad controller but also want it to have some sounds of its own as fallback, Korg Kross is more adept at sending MIDI Program Changes to the iPad, while Casio CT-S500 has what I think are the best feeling keys of the three (i.e. for piano playing) and has built-in speakers which might come in handy for you in some cases. Though there are very big differences among these boards in the capabilities they have in terms of their internal sounds, too.

 

I've looked into both of the alternatives and they both seem great, so does the CT-S1000V.

 

The Juno DS is being sold locally though at a decent price - could resell it for what I'll buy it for or perhaps up to $150~ more.

I'm going to pick it up tomorrow.

 

Why is the Korg Kross better at sending MIDI Program changes to the iPad?

 

Having onboard sounds as a fallback is definitely an extra bonus for me - I do have my acoustic guitar, but onboard sounds adds more backup which is always a good thing - I'd feel safe gigging just keys, without even taking the acoustic guitar, with that sort of backup.

 

I don't really see myself as a pianist - more eh.. some singer/songwriter type that plays a few instruments.. mostly it's about the vocals and songs, for me.

The instruments I use are just there to support that - though I do intend to beef the accompaniment up big time with the iPad etc - the idea is to add more value to venues than just being some acoustic guy. It also opens me up to a couple of new venues locally.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

Why is the Korg Kross better at sending MIDI Program changes to the iPad?

Each Combi allows you to store up to 16 Program Change parameters for external gear (Program Change and any LSB/MSB bank change that may be needed)

[sunspot]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:06 PM, Reezekeys said:

 

I'm really sorry, I was going by this post on Ben's Bargains - I just noticed it's a week old!

 

https://bensbargains.com/bargain/apple-ipad-10-2-64gb-wi-fi-tablet-9th-gen-2021-847386/?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=dealpage&utm_campaign=deal

 

When I went to the stores'web sites I saw the price had gone back up, as you noticed. I just marked it dead on Ben's.

 

Well reeze I checked again today and Best Buy has the base model 9G back on sale for $250, just ordered one.  Amazon had them on sale as well but sold out of them already.  For those who value the onboard headphone jack, this is likely going to be the last Apple phone/tablet to ever have one folks.  Apple isn't in the business of adding back what they consider old, inferior technology.

[summerinstereo]

17 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Each Combi allows you to store up to 16 Program Change parameters for external gear (Program Change and any LSB/MSB bank change that may be needed)

 

Ah, okay - fair enough.

 

I didn't pick the Juno DS up just yet. It's still available but a friend has a Fantom 7 (I don't know which exact model, just "F7") that he's considering selling to me, so I'm waiting for him to think about it and then I'll go from there. If I miss out on the Juno DS and my friend decides against selling me the Fantom, so be it. I believe most Fantom 7 models would be a step up from the Juno DS, right?

 

He said "Roland Fantom F7" but I don't see that particular model, for all I know it's an X7 or a G7 or an FA-07, I honestly wouldn't have a clue, but I think they'd all be preferable over the Juno, depending on how far back it goes, maybe. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

17 minutes ago, summerinstereo said:

 

Ah, okay - fair enough.

 

I didn't pick the Juno DS up just yet. It's still available but a friend has a Fantom 7 (I don't know which exact model, just "F7") that he's considering selling to me, so I'm waiting for him to think about it and then I'll go from there. If I miss out on the Juno DS and my friend decides against selling me the Fantom, so be it. I believe most Fantom 7 models would be a step up from the Juno DS, right?

 

He said "Roland Fantom F7" but I don't see that particular model, for all I know it's an X7 or a G7 or an FA-07, I honestly wouldn't have a clue, but I think they'd all be preferable over the Juno, depending on how far back it goes, maybe. 

 

EDIT: See two posts below for clarification - forgot the timeline of the Fantom FA76 to Fantom S.

 

Original message: "There's also an original Fantom S 76 that would be arguably a step down from the Juno DS as its soundset is a bit older. I believe the Juno DS is using part of the Fantom X/G soundset."

[summerinstereo]

Just now, Mighty Motif Max said:

 

There's also an original Fantom S 76 that would be arguably a step down from the Juno DS as its soundset is a bit older. I believe the Juno DS is using part of the Fantom X/G soundset.

 

I didn't know this, thanks for sharing - so as long as the Fantom is X/G series or more recent, then it would be a step up.

 

Hopefully, I can find out what model it is tomorrow and go from there.

 

Had no idea there was an S series that would be a step down from the Juno.

[Mighty Motif Max]

1 minute ago, summerinstereo said:

 

I didn't know this, thanks for sharing - so as long as the Fantom is X/G series or more recent, then it would be a step up.

 

Hopefully, I can find out what model it is tomorrow and go from there.

 

Had no idea there was an S series that would be a step down from the Juno.

I need to correct that statement slightly upon further review - the S series was only a 61 and an 88. But the original first generation of the Fantom was only available in a 76-er, the Fantom FA76. The FA76 is basically an XV-5080, so a definite downgrade from the Juno DS. The S-series is improved a bit (but it's the previous model to the Fantom X, which is when the sounds started to get a lot better across the board). I'm not sure how well that lines up with the Juno DS. I wouldn't go older than a Fantom X these days though. I had a Fantom XR for a while and it was pretty nice even by today's standards.

 

FA76:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/roland-fantom-fa76

https://www.roland.com/global/products/fantom/

 

Fantom S:

https://www.roland.com/us/products/fantom-s/

[AnotherScott]

IIRC...

 

Original Fantom (76) had the 64 mb XV-5080 soundset. The later Fantom S (61 or 88) was the first model with a new sound set, though also 64 mb. The Fantom X (available in all 3 sizes) had a 128 mb sound set which included the 64 mb Fantom S sound set (at least most of it, possibly all). The Fantom G had a 256 mb sound set but did not include the entirety of the 128 mb Fantom X sound set (though it did have a lot of it). The 64 mb Juno DI had a subset of the Fantom X sounds, it may or may not have included some Fantom G sounds, I don't know. The 128 mb Juno DS has the 64 mb Juno DI sound set, and another 64 mb whose provenance is unclear. Presumably they are largely additional Fantom X and maybe Fantom G sounds, but they don't necessarily all come from there, I guess you'd have to review the data lists in detail. But some of the new "DS bank" sounds have "SRX" in their patch names, so those presumably came from SRX cards (optional sounds for the Fantom S/X), rather than from a Fantom itself. (You can also load the contents of your choice of almost any single complete SRX card into the Juno DS expansion memory.)

[Littidy]

On 2/27/2023 at 8:18 AM, MalH said:

I'd very much appreciate it if someone who has a Numa X were able to perform a similar test e.g. create a setup that sends an internal piano sound to the left stereo output and a Korg Module piano panned to the right channel and record the output playing a few isolated notes. You can get the latency by looking at the wave in any DAW or post it here.

I’m not in a position to do that test. But I have played korg module with the Numa X and the latency is very minimal. It’s hardly noticeable playing Ivory with the built in pianos.  I use it to add flavor to my patches in the numa. It’s a great board and keeps improving with updates.  The Rhodes/Wurly are getting much better and I don’t miss my Crumar Seven as much as I did at first.  Seven still is the best Rhodes/playability combo out there. Feels real.  But that’s another subject. 
 

Numa X with Neo Soul keys is great as well. Very expressive. 
 

hope it helps. I’ll try to record it at some point. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

The Fantom X is when the newer piano samples came in, so that difference alone is worth considering I think.

[summerinstereo]

It was the original Roland Fantom F76. I picked up the Juno DS.

 

My thoughts on it are torn straight down the middle.

 

The sounds of everything besides the straight up keys are phenomenal, I seriously love most of the sounds in this thing, and I understand it's got some room for flexibility as well. The grand piano sounds are terrible, unfortunately.

 

Since it's the DS61, the keybed is a lightweight synth-action style that just feels bad to play for piano stuff. Jamming out on synth sounds is awesome.

 

I negotiated a better deal on it, and it will suffice - I'll check out the expansions and see if there's a decent piano sound in there, but even if not, the piano sounds are definitely passable. I just think they're not as good as some VSTs I've got on the PC and I think the default Korg Module piano sound is better too, actually.

The electric piano keys are great imo, I think they're about equal to Neo Soul Keys.

 

 

The weight of the DS61 is great, so light and easy to carry around - but that keybed is a problem that will wind up having to be addressed, I'm really going to want an 88 weighted key keyboard.. maybe I can just get some super basic 88 key weighted keyboard, like the Casio I sold and call it a day.

 

61 keys feels restricting as well, it's annoying as heck on the low end - I notice it quite a bit already, I go to play octaves with the left hand and hit empty space haha.

But whatever, I'll adjust.

 

I'll give it some time. I can't see myself enjoying this keybed for straight up piano/keys gigs. The keybed feels like a toy.

I think the mini keys on my Akai MPK Mini Play are actually better to play. lol.

 

I'm sure the DS61 will grow on me though, it really is just the keybed that has me not completely in love with it off the bat.

 

Already tested it with the iPad and it worked flawlessly, after being set up correctly.

EDIT: Another issue is sometimes it doesn't register the note I played, I've messed with the velocity and tried each option out, but every now and then it just straight up doesn't register a note.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

that keybed is a problem that will wind up having to be addressed, I'm really going to want an 88 weighted key keyboard.. maybe I can just get some super basic 88 key weighted keyboard, like the Casio I sold and call it a day.

If you choose an 88 that has a standard 5-pin MIDI Out, you'll be able to connect it directly to the Juno, and use it to play Juno sounds. If you choose an 88 that also has MIDI zoning, you'd be able to split/layer multiple Juno sounds over its 88 keys. Casio PX-5S would be a good lightweight choice for this, and IMO it has better EPs than the Juno as well (especially after you add the additional EPs you can download from the Casio forum).

[stoken6]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If you choose an 88 that has a standard 5-pin MIDI Out, you'll be able to connect it directly to the Juno, and use it to play Juno sounds. If you choose an 88 that also has MIDI zoning, you'd be able to split/layer multiple Juno sounds over its 88 keys. Casio PX-5S would be a good lightweight choice for this, and IMO it has better EPs than the Juno as well (especially after you add the additional EPs you can download from the Casio forum).

+1 (again) on a weighted controller underneath a versatile top board. And of course you can run the Juno into Casio's audio ins, and avoid the need for a mixer.

 

Cheers, Mike

[summerinstereo]

11 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If you choose an 88 that has a standard 5-pin MIDI Out, you'll be able to connect it directly to the Juno, and use it to play Juno sounds. If you choose an 88 that also has MIDI zoning, you'd be able to split/layer multiple Juno sounds over its 88 keys. Casio PX-5S would be a good lightweight choice for this, and IMO it has better EPs than the Juno as well (especially after you add the additional EPs you can download from the Casio forum).

 

That sounds like a cool idea - the Casio PX-5S however is like $1700aud and the idea of spending that in addition to what I've already spent is completely insane.

 

I don't think I can get along with the keybed on the Juno DS, so I'm thinking I'll sell it and move on. It keybed makes me feel like I'm playing on a drug addicts teeth.

The sounds from the Juno are excellent, but this keybed is just a no-deal.

 

As a solo act, I don't want 2x keyboards in front of me so a dual setup is out of the question.

 

I could sell the Juno DS and profit probably $200-300aud, looking at what others are selling the DS61 for.

Similar situation with the iPad.

 

I need to have a think about what to do, because there's a fair few options running through my head, and some of them might be a little extreme.

 

Right now I'm thinking of flipping the Juno DS61 for a profit, and picking up either a decent 88 key weighted MIDI controller or a basic 88 weighted key digital piano that I can also use as a MIDI controller. I think the iPad idea is still good though. The DS61 doesn't have a place to put the iPad - which is also adding a little to my negative feelings on the Juno, because it adds extra BS on my end - I'll have to be reaching over the keyboard to mess with the iPad that's attached to a stand behind it or whatever.. nuisance. Would rather it be either on a music stand attached to the keyboard itself, or at least secured in some way to empty space on the keyboard but the DS61 doesn't have space for that.

 

Other grievances I have with the Juno DS, are the expansion thing only allows 1 pack at a time - you can have them all on the USB though. But, it's annoying and a little time consuming to switch between them and I don't feel they add anything amazing or game-changing anyway.. there's nothing in the expansion packs that would sway someone from considering selling it, to keeping it, or whatever. Nothing major in the expansion packs.

 

Also, dealing with the menu system is already annoying as heck - I'm just never going to want to mess with sound editing on this thing, I hate all the menu-diving and it's not a touch screen, it's annoying to use.

 

Really feeling an 88 key MIDI controller or "stage keyboard" without the menu-diving BS would be a better idea.

Not in a financial position to do that, without selling things, and even then I'd probably only reach a mid-tier one used. LOL.

Which is fine. I don't need a high quality, world-tour ready, professional grade instrument.

But I do need something easy and intuitive to use, and I do generally gig 2-4x a week so it's gotta be somewhat along those "professional" lines (sound-wise and durability-wise).

 

Wish I didn't sell the Casio CDO-130. With the iPad, that would have been more than fine.

All the complaints about the Juno DS61 would probably be things I'd happily gloss over, if the keybed didn't massively suck - at least now I know that I "need" 88 weighted keys (even though I seriously don't use them all, it's just a feel thing..).

 

[Reezekeys]

18 minutes ago, summerinstereo said:

The DS61 doesn't have a place to put the iPad - which is also adding a little to my negative feelings on the Juno, because it adds extra BS on my end - I'll have to be reaching over the keyboard to mess with the iPad that's attached to a stand behind it or whatever.. nuisance. Would rather it be either on a music stand attached to the keyboard itself, or at least secured in some way to empty space on the keyboard but the DS61 doesn't have space for that.

 

There are many of these kinds of iPad clip stands to be found online -

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

That sounds like a cool idea - the Casio PX-5S however is like $1700aud and the idea of spending that in addition to what I've already spent is completely insane.

Lower cost hammer-action 88s with 5-pin MIDI include Kurzweil SP1 and Korg D1, but they don't have MIDI zoning, so they would play one Juno DS sound at a time rather than multiple. If you look at used gear, there are many more choices, since it used to be common for lower cost models to have MIDI jacks on the. So possibilities include Yamaha P35/P85/P95, Kawai ES100/ES110, and lots of older Casio Privia models.

 

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

I don't think I can get along with the keybed on the Juno DS, so I'm thinking I'll sell it and move on. It keybed makes me feel like I'm playing on a drug addicts teeth.

The sounds from the Juno are excellent, but this keybed is just a no-deal.

In the lower price range, for a 61 semi-weighted, for a better action, I'd look at the Casio CT-S500, as mentioned earlier. It's not as versatile as the Juno DS, but it may do enough. 

 

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

Right now I'm thinking of flipping the Juno DS61 for a profit, and picking up either a decent 88 key weighted MIDI controller or a basic 88 weighted key digital piano that I can also use as a MIDI controller. I think the iPad idea is still good though. The DS61 doesn't have a place to put the iPad - which is also adding a little to my negative feelings on the Juno, because it adds extra BS on my end - I'll have to be reaching over the keyboard to mess with the iPad that's attached to a stand behind it or whatever.. nuisance. Would rather it be either on a music stand attached to the keyboard itself, or at least secured in some way to empty space on the keyboard but the DS61 doesn't have space for that.

That Casio CT-S500 has a music stand, and also free panel space if you don't mind blocking the speakers. But if you want to go with an 88, I think their CDP-S360BK looks like an interesting low-cost choice, though I have no personal experience with it. For MIDI control of an iPad, again, the PX5S is most versatile, and has some free panel space, but it sounds like that's more than you want to spend, even if you sell the DS61 and put that money toward it. Though it's been around long enough, you might find a used one at a good price. Korg Kross 88 could be another good used possibility (either the older or newer version)... still pretty light, but bulkier in its size. 

 

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

Other grievances I have with the Juno DS, are the expansion thing only allows 1 pack at a time - you can have them all on the USB though. But, it's annoying and a little time consuming to switch between them and I don't feel they add anything amazing or game-changing anyway.. there's nothing in the expansion packs that would sway someone from considering selling it, to keeping it, or whatever. Nothing major in the expansion packs.

That reminds me of the old joke about 2 people in a restaurant, where one says "the food is terrible," and the other replies, "yes, and the portions are so small!" If the expansions have nothing you're impressed with, then only being able to load one is not much of a sacrifice. But I think the idea isn't that people would routinely load different ones in, but rather, they would find the one that seems to offer them the most for their needs, and stick with that one. Of course, if you compare it to the various Casios, those don't allow you to load new sets of samples at all, so that's another solution to the problem of only being able to load a small amount of them. ;-)

 

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

Also, dealing with the menu system is already annoying as heck - I'm just never going to want to mess with sound editing on this thing, I hate all the menu-diving and it's not a touch screen, it's annoying to use.

Ah. You'd probably feel the same about the PX-5S and Kross. Though PX-5S, Kross, and Juno DS also have downloadable computer editors.

 

[summerinstereo]

9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Lower cost hammer-action 88s with 5-pin MIDI include Kurzweil SP1 and Korg D1, but they don't have MIDI zoning, so they would play one Juno DS sound at a time rather than multiple. If you look at used gear, there are many more choices, since it used to be common for lower cost models to have MIDI jacks on the. So possibilities include Yamaha P35/P85/P95, Kawai ES100/ES110, and lots of older Casio Privia models.

 

Okay awesome, thanks for this info.

 

9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

In the lower price range, for a 61 semi-weighted, for a better action, I'd look at the Casio CT-S500, as mentioned earlier. It's not as versatile as the Juno DS, but it may do enough. 

 

That Casio CT-S500 has a music stand, and also free panel space if you don't mind blocking the speakers. But if you want to go with an 88, I think their CDP-S360BK looks like an interesting low-cost choice, though I have no personal experience with it. For MIDI control of an iPad, again, the PX5S is most versatile, and has some free panel space, but it sounds like that's more than you want to spend, even if you sell the DS61 and put that money toward it. Though it's been around long enough, you might find a used one at a good price. Korg Kross 88 could be another good used possibility (either the older or newer version)... still pretty light, but bulkier in its size. 

 

The CT-S500 and CT-S1000V seem cool - I didn't realise they were semi-weighted keyboards.  

I'll check out the CDP-S360BK.

 

 

9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

That reminds me of the old joke about 2 people in a restaurant, where one says "the food is terrible," and the other replies, "yes, and the portions are so small!" If the expansions have nothing you're impressed with, then only being able to load one is not much of a sacrifice. But I think the idea isn't that people would routinely load different ones in, but rather, they would find the one that seems to offer them the most for their needs, and stick with that one. Of course, if you compare it to the various Casios, those don't allow you to load new sets of samples at all, so that's another solution to the problem of only being able to load a small amount of them. 😉

 

Ah. You'd probably feel the same about the PX-5S and Kross. Though PX-5S, Kross, and Juno DS also have downloadable computer editors.

 

 

The expansions are okay - I don't think they have anything gamechanging, they offer "more of the same", if that makes sense.

There isn't some amazing piano sound in there that blows away the presets it came with, the expansions sound fine, I just think they're not going to change anyone's mind on how good the product is.

 

I spent some time with the Juno DS61 tonight, I felt like maybe it's the kind of thing that I would have to adapt to, rather than the other way around.

 

There are an absolute barnload of good-great piano/keys sounds in here, I don't think any of them sound great as a straight up "piano" sound, but I found myself just getting lost in the sounds it does offer. Some of them seemed to dictate a different way of playing, and I really enjoyed just working with the sounds and changing how I'm playing songs, rather than feel disappointed with how it doesn't have a great standard piano sound.

 

In doing the above, the crappy keybed felt like less of an issue as well - like I'm working with the instrument, as opposed to trying to make it fit what I want - approaching the songs from a different perspective made me more open to it not feeling like 88 weighted keys, if that makes sense.

 

Really enjoyed playing it and might even consider taking it to my gig tomorrow, not to do anything with the iPad, and not to do anything with the pattern sequencer - which I haven't even started to learn.. but just to throw out some ambient, almost "singer-songwriter" songs. Sounds like a stupid descriptor but, for example, playing the Fairy Piano or Meditation Piano presets, slowing the songs down, just playing simple chords/inversions/triads (so, not playing the song "as it goes").. really sounded fantastic. 

 

This approach left so much room for my vocals too. There's a lot to love here, I think I'll get along with it just fine so long as I don't look at is as a piano and more as its own instrument. 

The 88 key version, I imagine, would be absolutely perfect for me. But I think perhaps one of the options you mentioned, or some other cheap 88 weighted keys option, alongside the DS61 would be fine as well. Not sure what I want to do with that side of things.

 

Feeling a bit more positive about the Juno tonight though, simple fact is it's not an 88 weighted keys keyboard with a fantastic grand piano sound and that's okay.

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, summerinstereo said:

The 88 key version, I imagine, would be absolutely perfect for me. But I think perhaps one of the options you mentioned, or some other cheap 88 weighted keys option, alongside the DS61 would be fine as well. Not sure what I want to do with that side of things.

The reason I hesitated to include that among my listed possibilities is, if it's for gigging, it's a bit hefty at 35.75 lbs.

 

(The Korg D1 I mentioned earlier is not much lighter, but as an adjunct rather than a replacement for the DS61, that could be seen as possibly an addition only for home use, whereas if you got the DS88 as a replacement for the DS61, that would be your gigging board.)