Viscount Legend Soul

[Delaware Dave]

2 hours ago, JohnDoe said:

Why can´t Viscount just give us a proper technical/ user info of the "Soul", like a YT rundown of the organ, not the player? 

All of the "HammondOrganPeopleNerds" know that JoeyD can play, but give us relevant info re. the Legend Soul.

Or is it still in prototype stage, like they don´t know the final result?

I saw in a post that some functionality of the soul would be backported to the legend, when i inquired about which functionality it was specific to the C/V upgrade and leslie sim improvements. So if you want the improvements and not concerned about the new keyboard contacts then save yourself $2k and purchase the legacy legend series.

[HammondDave]

2 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

I saw in a post that some functionality of the soul would be backported to the legend, when i inquired about which functionality it was specific to the C/V upgrade and leslie sim improvements. So if you want the improvements and not concerned about the new keyboard contacts then save yourself $2k and purchase the legacy legend series.

I agree… are multi-contacts really worth it?

[AnotherScott]

13 hours ago, JohnDoe said:

Why can´t Viscount just give us a proper technical/ user info of the "Soul", like a YT rundown of the organ, not the player? 

All of the "HammondOrganPeopleNerds" know that JoeyD can play, but give us relevant info re. the Legend Soul.

Or is it still in prototype stage, like they don´t know the final result?

I was under the impression that the only difference between this and the other current Viscount organs is the new multi-contact key feature. What is it that you're eager to find out?

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I was under the impression that the only difference between this and the other current Viscount organs is the new multi-contact key feature. What is it that you're eager to find out

Multi-key contact isnt the only upgrade.  Watch the joey D video, he explains all of the upgrades including new effects, new bass only output and other features. If you didnt see the video you would thnk that multi-key is the only improvement.  There may be others but we dont really know unless someone details them.  I think that was John Doe's point.

[AnotherScott]

Ah, I didn't watch the video. I know Joey D is a monster player, but that style just makes my skin crawl.

[JohnDoe]

1 minute ago, Delaware Dave said:

Multi-key contact isnt the only upgrade.  Watch the joey D video, he explains all of the upgrades including new effects, new bass only output and other features. If you didnt see the video you would thnk that multi-key is the only improvement.  There may be others but we dont really know unless someone details them.  I think that was John Doe's point.

Precise! It is a new model and therefor is it necessary to find out what´s different to the other models. Especially if you (me) are on the way to place an order!

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, JohnDoe said:

Precise! It is a new model and therefor is it necessary to find out what´s different to the other models. Especially if you (me) are on the way to place an order!

I would guess that at that price, we are not going to see a lot of orders until we have more answers about the keyboard feel, etc.  

[JoJoB3]

On 5/18/2022 at 8:27 PM, ChoppedHam said:

Rather than 8 more contacts, a selling point for me would be a keybed duplicating the Hammond's key geometry and physics, i.e. longer keys, felt stops and the right tension as the key is depressed.

Agreed.  The closest has been the Hamm-Suzuki XK line with their own keybed (rather than the usual Fatar products).  Although that isn't 1 to 1 against the orig either.

I certainly do like the multi-contact sim (can be adjusted btw) but moreso the rocker switching which is near necessary in the heat of a live organ-centric performance.  The UI - soooo many years late for some reason.  But their price...ridiculous.

That said still VERY happy with XK3C system thru a vintage 122 when clone is required (even when not).

[JoJoB3]

10 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Ah, I didn't watch the video. I know Joey D is a monster player, but that style just makes my skin crawl.

Jimmy Smith, Jack McDuff, and Jimmy McGriff (and many more) make your skin crawl? 
I can promise your favorite famous Hammond rawkers do not share this same sentiment. 

[Bobbo Fett]

10 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Ah, I didn't watch the video. I know Joey D is a monster player, but that style just makes my skin crawl.

Damn...

[JoJoB3]

On 6/11/2022 at 6:06 PM, Delaware Dave said:

I saw in a post that some functionality of the soul would be backported to the legend, when i inquired about which functionality it was specific to the C/V upgrade and leslie sim improvements. So if you want the improvements and not concerned about the new keyboard contacts then save yourself $2k and purchase the legacy legend series.

Better yet, if you want to play Hammond but don't have a real leslie then keep the clone you have and consider getting one instead of 'upgrading' clones.  Likely the biggest upgrade you'll do.
A sim will always be a sim. The distance between 2 points is a straight line.

[HammondDave]

12 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Better yet, if you want to play Hammond but don't have a real leslie then keep the clone you have and consider getting one instead of 'upgrading' clones.  Likely the biggest upgrade you'll do.
A sim will always be a sim. The distance between 2 points is a straight line.

 

I would argue that in a live performance, a good sim will sound very close, if not indiscernible, to a miked Leslie.

[Delaware Dave]

More info about new features improvements:

 

The new organs in the Legend SOUL line incorporate new hardware and software improvements.

Hardware Improvements

- 9 contacts keyboard (patent pending) : Viscount has designed and developed a new keyboard capable of reproducing the 9 contacts that made the phonic wheel organ and its creator, Laurens Hammond, famous. The system consists of both physical components and software processing to virtually reproduce the feeling of the mechanical organ.

- New LCD screen to navigate the menu and its functions

- Mod Wheel

- Wooden top for improved structure and aesthetics

- New Red Walnut colour (available in black too)

- black octaves now playable (i.e for external sounds)

Software IMPROVEMENTS

- Additional organ models (Transistor & Pipe)

- New Rotary simulation

- Enhanced effects

- Contact setting parameters

- Lower manual section sendable to a different amp

- New pedals basses

In particular:

Additional organ models

3 Tonewheel Factory ( JDF-30, JDF-50, JFD-70 )

3 Tonewheel User (BC-1936, B3-1956, A100-1961)

2 Transistor (Farfisa, Vox)

2 Pipe (Symphonic, Baroque)

17 Pedals (Tonewheel, Farfisa, Vox, Symphonic, Baroque, Organ Bass, Upright Bass, Finger Bass, Fretless Bass, Picked Bass, Slap Bass, Rhodes Bass, Tuba Bass, Synth Bass 1, Synth Bass 2, Synth Bass 3, Synth Bass 4)

After production, it will be possible to expand the number of models available for the 3 organ families (Tonewheel, Transistor, Pipe) and the bass family (Pedals).

For the Tonewheels we already have the models from the previous Legend, for the Transistors we could think of other models from the period such as the Moog Cordovox, Ace Tone, Viscount Imperial, for the Pipes the Theater Organ, Romantic Organ.

ROTARY SIMULATION

The rotary simulation was rewritten in order to have a simulation very close to the original.

For this purpose, the most famous historical models were analysed and measured in an anechoic chamber and the most commonly used microphonation modes were evaluated. There will therefore be different configurations to emulate some of the original models. In this review, the respective amplifier and drive models were also emulated with 'virtual analogue' algorithms.

VIBRATO/CHORUS

The Vibrato/Chorus simulation was revised to better approximate the original. For this purpose some original Hammonds were measured and analysed.

NEW EFFECTS

Ring Mod, Flanger, Phaser, Wah, Tremolo, Delay

[Outkaster]

On 6/10/2022 at 2:49 PM, Noah DC said:

I kind of don’t see what the problem is here? Seems good to have high-profile support for the development of more and better clonewheels across the cost spectrum, especially considering the inevitable increase in B3 scarcity over the long run?

B-3s aren't scarce.  They were made for 20 years.  Him endorsing it doesn't have anything to do it.. 

[bill bosco]

52 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

More info about new features improvements:

 

The new organs in the Legend SOUL line incorporate new hardware and software improvements.

Hardware Improvements

- 9 contacts keyboard (patent pending) : Viscount has designed and developed a new keyboard capable of reproducing the 9 contacts that made the phonic wheel organ and its creator, Laurens Hammond, famous. The system consists of both physical components and software processing to virtually reproduce the feeling of the mechanical organ.

- New LCD screen to navigate the menu and its functions

- Mod Wheel

- Wooden top for improved structure and aesthetics

- New Red Walnut colour (available in black too)

- black octaves now playable (i.e for external sounds)

Software IMPROVEMENTS

- Additional organ models (Transistor & Pipe)

- New Rotary simulation

- Enhanced effects

- Contact setting parameters

- Lower manual section sendable to a different amp

- New pedals basses

In particular:

Additional organ models

3 Tonewheel Factory ( JDF-30, JDF-50, JFD-70 )

3 Tonewheel User (BC-1936, B3-1956, A100-1961)

2 Transistor (Farfisa, Vox)

2 Pipe (Symphonic, Baroque)

17 Pedals (Tonewheel, Farfisa, Vox, Symphonic, Baroque, Organ Bass, Upright Bass, Finger Bass, Fretless Bass, Picked Bass, Slap Bass, Rhodes Bass, Tuba Bass, Synth Bass 1, Synth Bass 2, Synth Bass 3, Synth Bass 4)

After production, it will be possible to expand the number of models available for the 3 organ families (Tonewheel, Transistor, Pipe) and the bass family (Pedals).

For the Tonewheels we already have the models from the previous Legend, for the Transistors we could think of other models from the period such as the Moog Cordovox, Ace Tone, Viscount Imperial, for the Pipes the Theater Organ, Romantic Organ.

ROTARY SIMULATION

The rotary simulation was rewritten in order to have a simulation very close to the original.

For this purpose, the most famous historical models were analysed and measured in an anechoic chamber and the most commonly used microphonation modes were evaluated. There will therefore be different configurations to emulate some of the original models. In this review, the respective amplifier and drive models were also emulated with 'virtual analogue' algorithms.

VIBRATO/CHORUS

The Vibrato/Chorus simulation was revised to better approximate the original. For this purpose some original Hammonds were measured and analysed.

NEW EFFECTS

Ring Mod, Flanger, Phaser, Wah, Tremolo, Delay

i like the choice of color but i could live without the wood top , i think it looks cheap somehow  or like some early clone from 30 years ago . the playable 

black octave is a great idea , something i miss about the numa organ , but instead of transistor models , i think some EPs would have been more useful . does

anyone care about having a state of the art Hammond clone that can sound like a farfisa ?  (  forgive my anti transistor rant , i had one as a kid ) .

[funkyhammond]

17 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Better yet, if you want to play Hammond but don't have a real leslie then keep the clone you have and consider getting one instead of 'upgrading' clones.  Likely the biggest upgrade you'll do.
A sim will always be a sim. The distance between 2 points is a straight line.

 

I agree that an organ clone with a real Leslie is a great combo if you can make it work for you, practically. But if you're avoiding dealing with a real console organ, then you probably are also avoiding dealing with a real Leslie, for one reason or another (cost, size/weight, transportation, maintenance, etc.). And from what I'm hearing in the NAMM videos, the Viscount rotary speakers remind me more of the Motion Sound stuff and not like the real Leslies -- which are not the most practical things to deal with.

[JohnDoe]

1 hour ago, Outkaster said:

B-3s aren't scarce. 

 

In US no, but elsewhere perhaps?🤔

And expensive?

And lack of skilled technicians?

[dazzjazz]

36 minutes ago, JohnDoe said:

 

In US no, but elsewhere perhaps?🤔

And expensive?

And lack of skilled technicians?

B3s and all console organs are scarce in Australia, as are technicians. We mostly have late model C3s we loads of foam cancer issues. I’m lucky to have a good A100 and teach on a 1959 C3. The latter has a stiff action but sounds great. 

[nadroj]

Organists: do you see the pitch bend and effects as a cool extra feature you might actually use sometime, or just a gimmick? 

[funkyhammond]

Just now, nadroj said:

Proper organists: do you see the pitch bend and effects as a cool feature you might actually use, or just a gimmick? 

 

What is a proper organist? I see pitch bend as useful for triggering external synth sounds for some funk and fusion stuff. Effects are a tool and they can be used musically or as a gimmick. There are rare occasions where I might use effects on organ for some kind of heavy or psychedelic vibe, especially with the leslie stopped. And then there are guys like this...

 

 

 

 

 

[nadroj]

You quoted my post just before I deleted the “proper” part 😂 I don’t know, which is why I switched it to “organists”. 

[Al Coda]

23 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Better yet, if you want to play Hammond but don't have a real leslie then keep the clone you have and consider getting one instead of 'upgrading' clones.  Likely the biggest upgrade you'll do.
A sim will always be a sim. The distance between 2 points is a straight line.

 

The Hammond tonewheel organ wasn´t made w/ the Leslie in mind,- it doesn´t NEED a Leslie urgently.

A clone has to sound right before running thru FX like "leslie sim" or a real Leslie.

When you urgently need a real Leslie for a clone,- the clone is bad.

See Brian Auger not using a Leslie at all,- and even he is or was endorsing Viscount Legend, I heard he wasn´t too much satisfied w/ sound and action, at least compared to his "real deal" chop.

Now, I´m not a Leslie hater and know, for the organ and for different styles of music, you need different amplification and different cabs,- rotary speakers or not.

So yes, for a clone, the "leslie sim" should be as perfect as possible too,- but is possibly the hardest task to realize in digital world and running thru nothing else than 2 audio outputs which is far from 3D audio (in a room).

So sometimes, the damn "leslie sim" ruins the clone too.

 

I´d be really surprised when Viscount beats HX3, the latter being in constant development too.

Viscount, also offering the complete package of haptics, was up to now more affordable than MAG.

But that seems to change now,- until MAG prices will rise significantly too.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

Posted on their facebook page...

Quote

 

For current Viscount Legend series owners. Francesco from Viscount explains a glimpse into the update’s heading our way. You need to decipher what pertains to the Legend series and not the new Soul line.

Dear members,

I am Francesco from Viscount International and I represent Legend organs in Italy.

I am writing this post to be clear about a few things after a great NAMM show for us.

Last week we presented the Legend Soul organs line and the new Rotary speakers developed by Viscount.

The new Legend Soul 273 and 261 won’t replace the current Legend line but some of the new features (as the new Vibrato/Chorus improvements new Simulation, Tweaked sound and too other new features to mention) will be shared by both the lines after the update. The new 9 contacts keyboard system is our biggest improvement in terms of realistic keyboard feeling and is a unique feature researched by purists.

Soon we will release audio and video to give you more info on these great instruments. I am sure that those who tried it at NAMM (even if the fair is not the best place to play and record) understand what I am talking about.

The current Legend(s) will be improved consistently, while the new Legend Soul will represent our top class organ, especially for those who are not only looking for a beautiful sound generation, but also for the 9 Contacts keyboard feeling.

The organs at NAMM were prototypes, without 100 % of the features working, but you will have examples to listen to soon. Below you can see all the new features incorporated in the Legend Soul organs.

 

(and then the feature list, already posted above by Delaware Dave)

[Noah DC]

20 hours ago, Outkaster said:

B-3s aren't scarce.  They were made for 20 years.  Him endorsing it doesn't have anything to do it.. 

It’s just common sense. If B3s weren’t scarce, people would not be able to charge many thousands of dollars for them. And even if that weren’t true, the idea that B3s won’t be scarce a few decades down the road is silly. There is a finite number and they break and no one is making more. If a prominent player gives his stamp of approval to clones that encourage people to play even if when they can’t afford a $4,000 organ, that is good for anyone who appreciates the instrument and doesn’t want it to die out. 

[Outkaster]

18 hours ago, JohnDoe said:

 

In US no, but elsewhere perhaps?🤔

And expensive?

And lack of skilled technicians?

I will give you that that skilled techs are scarce.  Sal Azzarelli dies in 2016 and John Schubarb died in 2020 and I knew them both.  Two guys on the top of their game.  I guess if you are in the business you are going to see the situation differently.

1 hour ago, Noah DC said:

It’s just common sense. If B3s weren’t scarce, people would not be able to charge many thousands of dollars for them. And even if that weren’t true, the idea that B3s won’t be scarce a few decades down the road is silly. There is a finite number and they break and no one is making more. If a prominent player gives his stamp of approval to clones that encourage people to play even if when they can’t afford a $4,000 organ, that is good for anyone who appreciates the instrument and doesn’t want it to die out. 

And they get paid to endorse shit that they don't play live.

[Noah DC]

32 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

And they get paid to endorse shit that they don't play live.

On the one hand, who cares, but on the other hand, may as well point out that this is literally untrue. 

[HammondDave]

24 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

On the one hand, who cares, but on the other hand, may as well point out that this is literally untrue. 

No one should fault Joey for selling his services to companies who make good products. I have been following Joey‘s endorsements for many years, and all the products he endorsed were very good for the time. It’s just natural that some companies will overtake others and his endorsements may change due to this, and also due to the fact that he is a smart businessman. 

[Outkaster]

24 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

No one should fault Joey for selling his services to companies who make good products. I have been following Joey‘s endorsements for many years, and all the products he endorsed were very good for the time. It’s just natural that some companies will overtake others and his endorsements may change due to this, and also due to the fact that he is a smart businessman. 

 That's fine.  I don't base anything on what an artist endorses as it's usually fleeting.

[Delaware Dave]

1 hour ago, Outkaster said:

 That's fine.  I don't base anything on what an artist endorses ....

 

+1.  It's not the way I roll...

[JoJoB3]

On 6/13/2022 at 6:49 AM, HammondDave said:

 

I would argue that in a live performance, a good sim will sound very close, if not indiscernible, to a miked Leslie.

Without a doubt there's a (big) difference in-room (that's you and players onstage or in-room) between a sim out a stationary speaker vs a Leslie pushing air.   The argument of 'does the audience care' is totally valid but that's not what we're talking about. I'm also not talking about which is easier either (we know the answer to that).

If you have an SK, a Legend, an XK, a mojo, a MAG, a new soul, etc. they ALL will sound infinitely better in room with a real leslie vs the sim from an amp/speaker.  It would take no time to A/B test the difference (which will/should be obvious). I'm just suggesting considering holding off doling $ for yet ANOTHER expensive , new hyped clone or pedal promising the sound of the impossible.  Instead save some pennies and buy a leslie for your recent clone as your next upgrade (at least try it).

There's a reason ideal vintage leslie models are snapped up right away - they make a vintage hammond (and now clones) sound best. And now there are 3rd party options to try as well.

I'm also NOT saying real Leslie a must otherwise your clone & sim are crap (again, audience care factor). That's ridiculous. But as for which will always sound better for the player, all in-room/onstage, etc. the real leslie is possibly one of the strongest upgrades to consider.  You're so close with your clone anyway, it's worth a test.  Don't like all that comes with it? Fair, as it's a decision. Just return it.