Viscount Legend Soul

[francesco verni]

2 hours ago, Adan said:

Thank you Francesco for participating in this thread.  Is there an english version of an owner's manual available?

Yes, you can find the first release user manual attached. But please, consider that we will update it soon. You know that when a new instrument comes out you (as a company) have to consider to adjust the refine...

 

 

Legend Soul 273-261 (EN-IT) ed10.pdf

[francesco verni]

 

 

[Johnny Laird]

Soul 261 arrived here in Dublin this afternoon from Thomann.De. UK/Ireland Power supply alas will arrive tomorrow so have to wait to power it up. Lovely looking and can confirm no Legend engraving on the side of the unit.

 

[Edit: Got there in the end - very difficult and I wonder if this is either a teething issue or flat out just not recommended by Viscount] Was advised by Thomann that the Legend Live metal stand is compatible - the rubber points connect at the front of the unit but I'm having a devil of a time trying to get the stand screws into the keyboard base. One will go in, but connecting the other side feels a few millimetres out. I wonder if there's any hints I can follow to figure this out (Francesco? :)) before I reengage Thomann. Any help is appreciated! 

 

I'm a pianist/pipe organist engaging belatedly getting on the Hammond train, so happy to answer any questions that don't rely too much on Hammond/Clone playing experience!

[Dockeys]

Good to see another Irish forumite! And congrats on the legend. I have the legend live and really like it. The newer one is just too expensive for me at present. Wondering if the lcd screen on it is able to save presets so if you get a chance you might confirm if it’s still 2 presets per manual you can save or can you now save a larger bank of orders?
 

Am waiting on the legend live firmware update that they promised once the 261 was released. Enjoy your new purchase. 

[Johnny Laird]

Will do Dockeys. So far I can see two presets keys and two drawbar set buttons for each manual. LCD screen is positioned with the buttons on the upper manual on the left hand side so will report back once I get powered up.  Thanks for the welcome!

[Spider76]

58 minutes ago, Johnny Laird said:

 Lovely looking and can confirm no Legend engraving on the side of the unit.

This is great news actually, I could never stand the light wood and that huge engravings on the sides. Did they also remove that big black "Soul 261" on the top of the panel, that was visible in renderings and prototypes? To me it looked really toyish on such an expensive instument...

[Johnny Laird]

Here we go - just a little Joey sig under the top notes of the lower manual. Simple is better, right?

 

[HammondDave]

Very nice….  Weight?

[Johnny Laird]

22.5kg is the Spec on the website and I've no reason to doubt. I can lift the whole thing in a way that I couldn't with my previous keyboard (an 88 key Roland from mid 2000's that I'd stick longways on my foot and walk around)! Lighter than expected but again I flag my lack of Clonewheel/Hammond experience

[Spider76]

21 hours ago, Johnny Laird said:

Here we go - just a little Joey sig under the top notes of the lower manual. Simple is better, right?

Really nice, congrats on your new buy!

I just saw that Thomann now has detailed pics of the 261 (not yet of the 273). It definitely looks great, really a classy board!

[Dockeys]

20 hours ago, Johnny Laird said:

22.5kg is the Spec on the website and I've no reason to doubt. I can lift the whole thing in a way that I couldn't with my previous keyboard (an 88 key Roland from mid 2000's that I'd stick longways on my foot and walk around)! Lighter than expected but again I flag my lack of Clonewheel/Hammond experience

I think the 261 is lighter? It’s listed as 19.5kgs. The 273 is around 22kgs. Nice to have a matching stand as well but it’s pretty pricey. 😳

[HammondDave]

23 hours ago, Johnny Laird said:

22.5kg is the Spec on the website and I've no reason to doubt. I can lift the whole thing in a way that I couldn't with my previous keyboard (an 88 key Roland from mid 2000's that I'd stick longways on my foot and walk around)! Lighter than expected but again I flag my lack of Clonewheel/Hammond experience

50 pounds?  No go for me…

[b3plyr]

Looks like a great board, but the weight says no to me.

[Delaware Dave]

43 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

Looks like a great board, but the weight says no to me.

 

and the price.....

[Outkaster]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:06 AM, francesco verni said:

 

Very nice!

[Johnny Laird]

On 2/22/2023 at 2:32 PM, Dockeys said:

Good to see another Irish forumite! And congrats on the legend. I have the legend live and really like it. The newer one is just too expensive for me at present. Wondering if the lcd screen on it is able to save presets so if you get a chance you might confirm if it’s still 2 presets per manual you can save or can you now save a larger bank of orders?
 

Am waiting on the legend live firmware update that they promised once the 261 was released. Enjoy your new purchase. 

Hi Dockeys, I've taken ages to respond! Just wanted to confirm it's two presets per manual. There is a dial (upper manual, far left corner) that can be used to switch programs (which you can save across the entire organ setup as opposed to just the drawbars with the set up, I think 128 of these) but I imagine unworkable for mid-tune switching for nearly everyone.

 

One week in and it's a delight. I'm running through a home separates stereo at the moment and the sound is terrific to my ears through that. More features than I need, but the various pipe organs are welcome for me, and the digital rotary effect a joy (though please note I have nothing to compare to!) to play around with (as are palm slides for the first time in my life).

 

I'm working my through Dave Limina's 'Hammond Organ Complete' book and it's doing a good job introducing me to the Hammond's (and clones') idiosyncrasies.

 

Pedalboard18 and non-Viscount bench on the way so I can really start knuckling down...

 

Any Hammond newbie life hacks are more than welcome here!

[LX888]

I have been

off the forum for awhile... there was a registration snafu... 

 

I would love to hear the Viscount Key B with key contacts! But just about the only way to do this would be to order one... that's not going to happen. But I totally support what is going on here.

 

What happened to me recently was that someone on ebay virtually gave away a Viscount EXP module. I love this thing! Once again whoever seems to be designing these things knows what they are doing

 

On my Viscount Legend Live there is a very cool 30's Hammond BC emulation...and on this module they also have a different BC model ..... I really like both of them. The chorus vibrato is more shallow and the best I can describe it just reminds me of Ray Charles or something....something that Ray might have used... just has kind of a wicked feel. Very bluesy. Other clones do not have anything like this...one of the things that makes Key B unique.

 

Also loving the EXP leslie sim. I have the HX3 and Mojo modules  and the leslie sim editing drive me nuts on both of them. If anyone needs a Mojo module or HX3 PM me for a good deal. Viscount nails it!

 

And still loving the original Numa 1.One of our list members sold a friend of mine the Numa that Joey played at NAMM and he signed it also. Number 006.

 

I hope to someday hear this recent Viscount but I am so happy with this module its a non issue

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

4 hours ago, LX888 said:

The chorus vibrato is more shallow and the best I can describe it just reminds me of Ray Charles or something....something that Ray might have used... just has kind of a wicked feel. Very bluesy. Other clones do not have anything like this...one of the things that makes Key B unique.

 

The smaller the C/V value the more shallow.  C3 is the 'deepest'.  so on other clones try C2 or C1 and you will get a shallow sound.  Also, on the Mojo you can set the Vibrato mix so that even C3 is more shallow than the delivered setting.

[Dockeys]

1 hour ago, Johnny Laird said:

Hi Dockeys, I've taken ages to respond! Just wanted to confirm it's two presets per manual. There is a dial (upper manual, far left corner) that can be used to switch programs (which you can save across the entire organ setup as opposed to just the drawbars with the set up, I think 128 of these) but I imagine unworkable for mid-tune switching for nearly everyone.

 

One week in and it's a delight. I'm running through a home separates stereo at the moment and the sound is terrific to my ears through that. More features than I need, but the various pipe organs are welcome for me, and the digital rotary effect a joy (though please note I have nothing to compare to!) to play around with (as are palm slides for the first time in my life).

 

I'm working my through Dave Limina's 'Hammond Organ Complete' book and it's doing a good job introducing me to the Hammond's (and clones') idiosyncrasies.

 

Pedalboard18 and non-Viscount bench on the way so I can really start knuckling down...

 

Any Hammond newbie life hacks are more than welcome here!

Thanks for getting back to me about the presets. Yeah I don’t think a dial maybe robust enough for quick changes but depends on how fast it turns or even how much time you have to turn it in a live scenario. Anyway thanks for looking into it for me. 
 

It looks like a great machine. There is some information on video tutorials in this thread:

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/170781-best-video-tutorial-to-learn-b3/

 

And it might be worth looking through this older thread. It's mostly text-related B3 resources books etc but a few video ones too....
 
https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2751826/Re_Hammond_instruction_book#Post2751826

Enjoy the Legend!

[Johnny Laird]

On 3/6/2023 at 2:52 PM, Dockeys said:

Thanks for getting back to me about the presets. Yeah I don’t think a dial maybe robust enough for quick changes but depends on how fast it turns or even how much time you have to turn it in a live scenario. Anyway thanks for looking into it for me. 
 

It looks like a great machine. There is some information on video tutorials in this thread:

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/170781-best-video-tutorial-to-learn-b3/

 

And it might be worth looking through this older thread. It's mostly text-related B3 resources books etc but a few video ones too....
 
https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2751826/Re_Hammond_instruction_book#Post2751826

Enjoy the Legend!

Thanks Dockeys - gonna have a look at this.

[LX888]

I mixed around on the Mojo module and it does not do what the Key B module does as far as emulating the older BC etc. type organs.

 

The Mojo is good don't get me wrong.I go into McIntosh Audio near where I live and he gets in just about everything these days for me to try. No Viscount Soul has showed up yet... so I see a lot of Crumar and HX3 related stuff. I have to say...the new Mojo keybed is impressive! Not sure I could live with editing it on an I phone or whatever they do and it does need editing IMO.

 

But I hardly ever have an issues with a Key B type product. And I never have to edit the damn thing. The Key B leslie sim is not as intense as some of the others. The spin is more moderate.

 

The thing that drives me crazy as far as leslie sims go is the way they affect percussion. One thing I am doing about this is to have a separate module...in my case HX3... and trigger just the percussion . So on The legend Live you can run that into the Aux in. To me it matters because when you use slow percussion...you can really hear it get affected by the sim.I don't think I would do that on a gig but at home... I don't send percussion through the sim.

 

Probably sounds crazy I admit. But the Key B Viscount is unique in the way it emulates the older organs.

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, LX888 said:

The thing that drives me crazy as far as leslie sims go is the way they affect percussion. One thing I am doing about this is to have a separate module...in my case HX3... and trigger just the percussion . So on The legend Live you can run that into the Aux in. To me it matters because when you use slow percussion...you can really hear it get affected by the sim.I don't think I would do that on a gig but at home... I don't send percussion through the sim.

 

It seems weird that this would be a problem since, on the real thing, of course, the percussion does go through the leslie. If a board's percussion sounds wrong going through the leslie, to me, that points to a flaw either in the percussion emulation or the leslie emulation.

[Delaware Dave]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

It seems weird that this would be a problem since, on the real thing, of course, the percussion does go through the leslie. If a board's percussion sounds wrong going through the leslie, to me, that points to a flaw either in the percussion emulation or the leslie emulation.

consider the source ...  

[Adan]

My Legend Soul 261 arrived today.  I've been planning to get a dual manual clone for over a year since selling my SKPro (wish I could figure out how to modify my signature!).  Even as of last week I was undecided between the SKXPro, the Crumar Classic, and the Soul, but based on everything I could hear and read on the internet decided to roll the dice with the Soul.

 

There's a lot to dig into with this keyboard and I've' only scratched the surface, but here are first impressions.

 

First, the action.  My biggest fear was that the action would be stiff like the Viscount Legend Live.  I played a friend's Legend Live and thought it felt very similar to a Nord Electro, at least as stiff if not stiffer.  Not so the Soul, and this is major good news!  The action of the Soul feels very good right off the bat.  Definitely not excessively stiff.  Not quite like any other clone I've played, it sort of has its own feel that I would say is arguably closer to a real Hammond than any other clone, and yet not quite like a real Hammond either.  I've owned a Hammond and played many others, but it's been a few years since I had my hands on one, so the feel is not fresh in my memory, but I'd say the Soul, though not quite the same, is not too far off from it.  To me it feels semi-weighted.  And maybe it is, with whatever physical modification was needed for the multi-contact system, but that's just speculation.

 

Interestingly, the multi-contact system by its nature means the trigger point is not quite as high as the regular Fatar keys, and that was something I noticed right away as almost a deficiency, because I couldn't skate on the keys quite as easily as I could with, say, the Mojo or the SKPro.  But if memory serves, that's also the case with a real Hammond.  So it seems with the multi-contact system you get something but you also lose something, which might be an argument in favor of the SKPro's virtual multi-contact system over that in the Soul.  But at the end of the day, if you can't play great organ on either the Soul or the SKPro, don't blame the instrument!

 

So, about all I can say at this point is the Soul feels much better than the regular Legend.  To compare it with a real Hammond and the Mojo or SKPro, I think you'd have to get the side by side.

 

The multi-contact system is cool, for sure, and does make it feel more lively.  Again, I don't have a real Hammond to compare it to, but just going from memory I'd say the Soul has come very close to capturing that aspect of a real Hammond.  I played around a little with the depth adjustment, and it does make a difference though at first blush it seems subtle.

 

As for how it sounds, so far so good.  I'm really not sure it's better sounding than the SKPro and the Mojo, but I think it's right there in the conversation for which is the best.

 

What the Soul has to a greater extent than other clones is real time control and authentic layout.  Even though I've spent a lot of time on clones that don't have that, I have to say I appreciate having it on the soul.

 

I midi'd in my Reface CP to the lower manual and that worked fine, though I did not try to use the internal sustain, instead using the sustain pedal input on the Reface.

 

That's it for now.  I'll report back after I spend more time with it.  I'm not ready to say the Soul is clearly better than the Mojo or the SKPro.  I think they're each going to have their fans.  I can say for sure it's a great clone, instantly inspiring, and a big step up from the Legend Live.

 

i'm putting together an organ trio with a guitarist/vocalist.  We haven't found a drummer yet, but we've started shedding tunes.  With any luck, this thing will soon be gig tested Full Frontal Organ!

[LX888]

Are 9 contact points really that critical in a loud rock or blues environment?

 

A local piano shop recently dropped off a fairly mint and low mileage C-2 at my house. I have a headphone out so I can really hear what is going on. I installed the Trek II percussion so I am all set.

 

On this... I can barely hear the contact point unless I use an extremely light touch. I ran my Legend module through the preamp and I really can't her much difference unless I back off the way I play quite a bit.

 

This C-2 cured me of GAS for a clonewheel.I have Mojo and Legend modules and by the way...don't try to tell me the Legend has inferior CV!

 

Just love the C-2 by the way....1954. What I hear is a difference in the preamp. I have to say I prefer the 2 series. On the Legend, the BC sample is a game changer for me. I use it quite a bit due to the CV of the BC... it is different in such a cool way. It has become a must have... Glad they thought of it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Adan]

6 minutes ago, LX888 said:

Are 9 contact points really that critical in a loud rock or blues environment?

 

 

No, and I'm not sure anyone is saying they are critical for anything.  My feeling is, in the rock and blues context the 9 contacts just translate as a "click," and that click is adequately simulated without actual multi contacts.  Arguably, the subtelty of the feel is more relevant to jazz or any style where a light touch is de riguer.

 

It's pretty debatable how much real multi-contact (as opposed to just a click emulation or the SKPro version of virtual multi contacts) adds to the experience.  I'll be thinking about that as I spend time with the Soul.  I personally don't see why anyone "needs" multi-contacts, but I also wouldn't be surprised if some die hard Hammond players say it's very important.  

[LX888]

I guess its great if you can afford a Soul. I haven't checked the price....

 

I do listen to the Joey D. NAMM show videos, but its hard to tell from those... his settings are all over the place. I am surprised at how loud his percussion seems to be.

 

There are some recordings where touch sensitivity shows up on a real Hammond tonewheel.  On Don Patterson's recordings you can really hear a soft attack that reveals key click and just the edge of tonewheel contact. Also Joey D.'s demonstrations....particularly squabbling .....demonstrate the contact effect so I know that it is a factor.

 

In my case... the way I use a clonewheels is mostly for fairly loud classic rock and blues settings. In that environment I doubt that the 9 contact thing would ever be an issue. 

 

But more power to who is ever able to afford these.  What I did come up with is how affordable it can be to have a C-2 or a B-2 with Trek II percussion. This C-2 was free! I just had to buy the percussion ...300 dollars but the thing is.... I am surprised  at how much I like it.

 

From the G G terminals on the Hammond preamps... you can wire up a headphone jack. Also... you can plug in a clonewheel and run it through the preamp and do a real A/B comparison between a clonewheel and a real Hammond. When I do this the Legend module comes damn close to the sounds on my C-2. 

 

A few years back it was not uncommon for people to be running clonewheels through tube preamps. I also have an outboard  B-2 preamp that I can use for clonewheels if I want to. This can also be something to try because these preamps show up on ebay from time to time.So If I really wanted to get fussy the outboard tube preamp is an option.

[Adan]

Legend Soul costs the same as the Hammond SKXPro.  I had an SKPro and loved the organ part, didn't care for the mono synth or the extra sounds, so in a sense if I bought the SKXPro I'd be paying for stuff i don't want.   Midi'ing a sound module or software to the lower manual of the Soul gives me all the bi-timbrality that I want.  

 

The Mojo Clasic is $1500 cheaper and you can do the same midi thing.  A big difference between the Mojo and the Legend is the controls.  When you think about the cost of hardware, the price difference between the Mojo and the Soul makes sense.  For people who don't need or want the extra controls on the Soul, the Mojo might make more economic sense for them.

 

As for which sounds better between SKXPro, Mojo, and Legend Soul, as I said above, I'm not prepared to offer an opinion except that I think all three are really really good.  Someone at some point will do a good ol' fashioned clone shootout.

 

There's a sign on the wall of one of my local bike shops that reads "My greatest fear is that I'll die and my wife will sell my bikes for what I told her I paid for them."

[HammondDave]

16 hours ago, Adan said:

No, and I'm not sure anyone is saying they are critical for anything.  My feeling is, in the rock and blues context the 9 contacts just translate as a "click," and that click is adequately simulated without actual multi contacts.  Arguably, the subtelty of the feel is more relevant to jazz or any style where a light touch is de riguer.

 

It's pretty debatable how much real multi-contact (as opposed to just a click emulation or the SKPro version of virtual multi contacts) adds to the experience.  I'll be thinking about that as I spend time with the Soul.  I personally don't see why anyone "needs" multi-contacts, but I also wouldn't be surprised if some die hard Hammond players say it's very important.  

“9 Contacts”?… 8 more things that can fail. I wonder how that sounds?

[Chummy]

I'm curious is somebody has experience with both Crumar Mojo classic and the Viscount Soul 261 and can comment about them in terms of sound (especially rotary emulation), keyboard feel .and reliability. I know the soul is a new product but what about the build quality, software bugs , crucial limitations etc. The crumar was reported to have some of those as I read on some forums