Viscount Legend Soul

[francesco verni]

 

 

 

[francesco verni]

On 3/31/2023 at 4:52 PM, HammondDave said:

“9 Contacts”?… 8 more things that can fail. I wonder how that sounds?

 

It seems prejudice to me 😂

[Adan]

Maybe Ham-on-Dave knows better but my understanding is the "9 contacts" in the Soul are not physical contacts, but rather a magnet system, so no additional moving parts and no metal-on-metal friction.  I wouldn't necessarily expect that to be a risky component.

 

As I said above, I had a hard time choosing between Soul, SKXPro, and Mojo Classic.  I'm a Crumar fan, currently owning a Mojo 61 (but it's on the other coast right now) and a Seventeen, and formerly owned a Seven.  I think the Mojo is a great clone, and the Classic costs significantly less than the Soul.  However, regarding reliability, Viscount is far more confidence-inspiring.  They're a larger and more well-established manufacturer.  The Soul exudes quality in every button and knob.   The hardware on Crumar products feel second-rate.  The buttons on my Seventeen feels especially cheap and sometimes don't work.  The volume knob has no resistance and so it's easy to overshoot your target.  The internal power supply on my Crumar failed after 6 months and so I had to be sent a new unit under warranty.  I sold the Seven to a friend who later told me he had to replace the motherboard twice (but sill loves and gigs with it).  So when I read the online complaints (including from our own David Bryce) about Crumar reliability, I believe them.  That said, my Mojo has never had a problem.  It's about batting averages, and you can't judge that from reading anectdotes on the web.

 

As for keyboard feel between the Mojo and the Soul, I don't think that's much of a deciding factor because they both feel great and both significantly better than the unmodified Fatar in the Electro or Legend Live.  They do feel different from each other.  The Mojo feels nicely sprung, but only sprung.  The Soul feels closer to semi-weighted, and to me feels just a bit more like a real Hammond (even though a real Hammond is not semi-weighted, so I realize that may read as a weird comment).  But again, they both feel great, and preferences may be subjective.

 

I left my Mojo in California (wait, could that be the title of a song?), so I can't put it side by side with the Soul to compare sounds.  I think that would be necessary to making judgments about which sounds better.  Same amplification route, similar settings, etc . .. They both sound so good, I think it's a tough comparison and subjectivity will play a large role.

[francesco verni]

1 hour ago, Adan said:

Maybe Ham-on-Dave knows better but my understanding is the "9 contacts" in the Soul are not physical contacts, but rather a magnet system, so no additional moving parts and no metal-on-metal friction.  I wouldn't necessarily expect that to be a risky component.

 

As I said above, I had a hard time choosing between Soul, SKXPro, and Mojo Classic.  I'm a Crumar fan, currently owning a Mojo 61 (but it's on the other coast right now) and a Seventeen, and formerly owned a Seven.  I think the Mojo is a great clone, and the Classic costs significantly less than the Soul.  However, regarding reliability, Viscount is far more confidence-inspiring.  They're a larger and more well-established manufacturer.  The Soul exudes quality in every button and knob.   The hardware on Crumar products feel second-rate.  The buttons on my Seventeen feels especially cheap and sometimes don't work.  The volume knob has no resistance and so it's easy to overshoot your target.  The internal power supply on my Crumar failed after 6 months and so I had to be sent a new unit under warranty.  I sold the Seven to a friend who later told me he had to replace the motherboard twice (but sill loves and gigs with it).  So when I read the online complaints (including from our own David Bryce) about Crumar reliability, I believe them.  That said, my Mojo has never had a problem.  It's about batting averages, and you can't judge that from reading anectdotes on the web.

 

As for keyboard feel between the Mojo and the Soul, I don't think that's much of a deciding factor because they both feel great and both significantly better than the unmodified Fatar in the Electro or Legend Live.  They do feel different from each other.  The Mojo feels nicely sprung, but only sprung.  The Soul feels closer to semi-weighted, and to me feels just a bit more like a real Hammond (even though a real Hammond is not semi-weighted, so I realize that may read as a weird comment).  But again, they both feel great, and preferences may be subjective.

 

I left my Mojo in California (wait, could that be the title of a song?), so I can't put it side by side with the Soul to compare sounds.  I think that would be necessary to making judgments about which sounds better.  Same amplification route, similar settings, etc . .. They both sound so good, I think it's a tough comparison and subjectivity will play a large role.

Dear Adan, 

 

nice point of view. 

Basically, there is less risk than the other clones. We have no rubber, so no contacts  wear along the years. That's why I strongly believe that it is necessary to have a try before criticize, or at least have good informations about the object. 

 

In general, have two dsp instead of one, standard of all the clones. Betweeen the Legend Soul and the current Legend organs there is a big difference in terms of computing calculation capability too. I don't know what H/S does in the XK line, which is the premium line, as the SOUL for Viscount. Moreover, the keybed and the feeling. While every company can/will reach a reliable sound (subjectivity is very important in the end...), also the Simulation, C/V, effects...( it is possible to reach), what is hard to recreate is the hammond feeling. taling about the Soul keyboard, I feel calm and sure in saying that there is no competitor, it not subjective anymore  

 

In the next months we will see more feedbacks, and I am confident that we will have its position in the "clone map" very clear in our mind..  

[Delaware Dave]

Are there any plans for a Soul single manual organ (like the solo)?

[francesco verni]

 

Dear Dave, 

 

not yet. The Solo now will be updated with the C/V and Sim. 

I will be happy in receiving your taughts. 9 contacts system on a single manual would mean a single manual more expensive than the Solo. In my experience, many players who play the Solo are rock - funky oriented.. so I am wondering.. would it be a good move to have 9 contacts system in a single manual in your opinion?

 

thanks for your suggestions

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, francesco verni said:

 

Dear Dave, 

 

not yet. The Solo now will be updated with the C/V and Sim. 

I will be happy in receiving your taughts. 9 contacts system on a single manual would mean a single manual more expensive than the Solo. In my experience, many players who play the Solo are rock - funky oriented.. so I am wondering.. would it be a good move to have 9 contacts system in a single manual in your opinion?

 

thanks for your suggestions

 

Would agree.  I'm a rock oriented player so missing  the 9 contact partials is not a big deal; you wouldn't be able to hear it anyway except that the 'stabs' are louder than they should be because I'm getting all potential 9 contacts rather than the perhaps just the last 4 drawbars or so.  At any rate, for rock I would agree, not a big deal.  It is a bigger deal for jazz when squabbling comes into play but my way around that (when I'm playing jazz oriented music) is just to reduce the 16' drawbar so that it is fainter; it kind of gets me to the same place.  Having the updated C/V  and leslie sim moved to the Solo are probably the biggest improvements.  I do like the sound of the new leslie sim; the updated C/V doesn't sound any better to me than the Mojo's C/V, but at least the C/V is no longer a weakness.     

 

For me, price is an issue; not because I can't afford it but because I can't justify the price for the feature set.  Two Mojo classics (new with warranty) are  $3900.  One Soul 261 is about the same price.  Calculations I used:  got the USD price from Thomanns US site, added 20% for VAT and $60 shipping for both.  Or if I purchase two Mojo 61's and two lower manuals I now get the flexibility of using one or two manuals or a 2nd weighted keyboard as the lower manual (depending on the gig requirements) plus the new Yamaha CFX piano, Rhodes, Wurli, and Clav included in the Mojo 61 that isn't in the Soul so that I can just bring a Mojo and a lower manual with me and be able to play a gig with no other instruments needed, and still have a 2nd setup at home, studio or another location or spend $1900 for other new gear. 

 

Again, my two cents, others will disagree; but that's the lense I view it through.  I'm sure you need to price it in order to get the investment back for the new technology (I get it) but being a Finance-centric person I view everything from a bang for the buck point of view, I'd give up the 9 contacts and rather have the other features and save a ton of money.  See the problem? 

 

[Adan]

The Soul has a lot of features the Mojo does not have.  Whether those features are worth the higher price tag will depend on stuff that's individual to each player. 

[Delaware Dave]

50 minutes ago, Adan said:

The Soul has a lot of features the Mojo does not have.  Whether those features are worth the higher price tag will depend on stuff that's individual to each player. 

 

And the Mojo has features like a new Acoustic Piano, modeled Rhodes, Wurli, Clav D6 that the Soul doesn't have; making it "potentially" a one-board solution, at least alot closer to a one-board solution than the Soul.  There are blues gigs where those 4 instruments plus the organ/leslie are all I need to play the gig.

 

That's why my reply said "my two cents"; those other features have no real value for me; I don't care about adding Wah Wah to the organ or other funny things; in fact you can go into the Mojo and add Wah Wah if you wanted as an effect now. My point was, those other features aren't worth $1900 additional to me.

 

Again, my two cents (now I'm up to 4 cents).

[francesco verni]

12 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

And the Mojo has features like a new Acoustic Piano, modeled Rhodes, Wurli, Clav D6 that the Soul doesn't have; making it "potentially" a one-board solution, at least alot closer to a one-board solution than the Soul.  There are blues gigs where those 4 instruments plus the organ/leslie are all I need to play the gig.

 

That's why my reply said "my two cents"; those other features have no real value for me; I don't care about adding Wah Wah to the organ or other funny things; in fact you can go into the Mojo and add Wah Wah if you wanted as an effect now. My point was, those other features aren't worth $1900 additional to me.

 

Again, my two cents (now I'm up to 4 cents).

Thanks Dave for your detailed opinion.

you are right when you say that this is not a “all in one” solution, the 9 contact patent has been developed because Joey and our team basically taught that this would be the greatest improvents in “coming closer” that feeling,  reproduce that feeling that only an old drawbar organ can gives you. Very purist oriented..

Thinking about the sound, warmer ,thinner..louder… and the instrument behaviours (Leslie sim, drawbars settings,percussion etc etc)..  I personally believe that every company has arrived at a very high level/ price . That s why Joey guided us trough this innovation, knowing him, I think no one alive had his Hammond knowledge and sensibility. Making a step ahead..
So it insert it in a high level clone line (xk5) with several software features and a special hardware feature. And also, I agree with you about the music genre, you probably don’t need it. 
thank you for you ideas on a single manual .. for all well accepted!

[JohnDoe]

Hi Francesco!

More questions:

Does the Legend have higher triggerpoint than the Soul?

Will the coming sim/ C/V updates for Legend fit into the existing editor?

Where can I find the editor for Soul?

[Adan]

42 minutes ago, JohnDoe said:

 

Does the Legend have higher triggerpoint than the Soul?

 

Francesco will know the correct answer, but my guess is that it depends how many drawbars are out on the Soul.   All out, the key triggers at the very top, no play at all.  This is, of course, real Hammond behavior.  I'm not sure I fully understand the depth trigger adjustment but it seems like the highest drawbar always triggers at the top and other drawbar tiggers can be adjusted to some degree.

[francesco verni]

30 minutes ago, JohnDoe said:

Hi Francesco!

More questions:

Does the Legend have higher triggerpoint than the Soul?

Will the coming sim/ C/V updates for Legend fit into the existing editor?

Where can I find the editor for Soul?

Ciao John, 

 

the trigger point concept changes here a little bit because is adjustable, depending on where you want the first contact begin to sound. So it is editable, there are presets made by us, but of course, you choose

 

Yes, it is an update, so i am quite sure you will have the same editor working  The Soul and the future Rotary speakers will have one dedicated editor each.

 

The Soul editor will be realeased in these days.. 

[francesco verni]

39 minutes ago, Adan said:

Francesco will know the correct answer, but my guess is that it depends how many drawbars are out on the Soul.   All out, the key triggers at the very top, no play at all.  This is, of course, real Hammond behavior.  I'm not sure I fully understand the depth trigger adjustment but it seems like the highest drawbar always triggers at the top and other drawbar tiggers can be adjusted to some degree.

Yes Adan, thank your for this statement. Real hammond behaviour..  Moreover, with this new dual core organ, we have the possibility to improve it in all the features. One of those, is the random contact sequences, as you know.. while pushing a key on hammond, the 9 contacts close togheter but not always in the same way, so there is a sort of randomness... and we will this feature too. 

Sorry for my english, sometimes it is hard to explain technical questions😝.. 

 

[HammondDave]

On 4/3/2023 at 4:54 AM, Adan said:

Maybe Ham-on-Dave knows better….

Wow…  I have not heard sophomoric name insults like that since the last news cycle. 
 

Of course they don’t use 1950’s technology in the Soul.  I think you may be mistaking a bit of cynical humor with a lack of intelligence. 
 

Comparing boutique clone products with reasonably priced ones is a losing argument. For the average musician, these high priced instruments are only a dream for weekend warriors who make $80 a gig.  I have more respect for companies like StudioLogic and Crumar who make great products that are affordable for these musicians. 

 

It also makes me suspicious when manufacturer representatives who may have a conflict of interest commenting on this board. 

[francesco verni]

39 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

Wow…  I have not heard sophomoric name insults like that since the last news cycle. 
 

Of course they don’t use 1950’s technology in the Soul.  I think you may be mistaking a bit of cynical humor with a lack of intelligence. 
 

Comparing boutique clone products with reasonably priced ones is a losing argument. For the average musician, these high priced instruments are only a dream for weekend warriors who make $80 a gig.  I have more respect for companies like StudioLogic and Crumar who make great products that are affordable for these musicians. 

 

It also makes me suspicious when manufacturer representatives who may have a conflict of interest commenting on this board. 

Dear Dave, 

 

Don't you agree that  saying that 9 contacts system (in your opinion) means  “… 8 more things that can fail" is denigratory in some way? 

Without considering any brand name, I strongly believe that you need experience to judge. Experience means that you know very well what you are talking about... That's why I immediately take the opportunity to explain that actually you pointed out a very important NEW point that other clones don't have. We have no rubber contact, so no wear now. This no branding, it is just a technical truth.

 

There is nothing of not correct here.

 

 

[Adan]

Sorry, Dave, I do respect your opinion.  But you've been dishing out saucy humor for decades (going back to the old Clonewheel forum), so I just figured you can take it too.

 

As I said above just factoring in the cost of additional hardware on the Soul compared to the Mojo classic accounts for a big part of the delta in price difference.  Not just the amount of hardware, but the quality of it, because Viscount is clearly sourcing from better suppliers.  If having, for instance, two sets of drawbars per manual or individual knobs for percussion volume and sustain are not important, then maybe the Mojo is a better bang for buck choice.  Viscount and Crumar are to some extent serving different niches at different price points, which is how a free market should function.

 

As for Francesco's presence here as a Viscount representative, my own view is that it can be very helpful, especially when the product is boutique and doesn't have a massive public outreach department.  I think Keyboard Corner should cut some slack to the manufacturers who are not the Big Three.  We all benefit.

[HammondDave]

6 minutes ago, Adan said:

Sorry, Dave, I do respect your opinion.  But you've been dishing out saucy humor for decades (going back to the old Clonewheel forum), so I just figured you can take it too.

 

Oh, I can take it. I was just surprised. Anyway, I agree with the idea that you usually get what you pay for. I just don't appreciate the dissing of some of Viscount's competitors. My friend owns a Viscount, and I must say that I prefer the Mojo for several reasons: The keyboard feel; sound, and believe it or not; the customer support.

 

I bought my MOJO 61 soon after it first came out, and have gigged with it at least twice a month since. I even bought the excellent lower manual. Other than a bad chip that was quickly (within days) and inexpensively repaired (even though it was out of warranty!), it has performed every night.  No missing keys, sounds, etc. Built like a brick S***house!    I just updated the new acoustic piano and it sounds amazing!  

 

I am intrigued by the Soul. It is in the boutique range of organs, up there with the XK5. However, I won't buy a Soul for the same reason why I won't by the XK5. Too big and heavy!  For a 67 year old weekend warrior currently playing in three different bands (Classic Rock, Soul, R&B), I need the flexibility to use different rigs for different bands. And they all have to be light and small. So I have the MOJO 61 with or without it's lower manual, the combo of the MOJO 61 top manual and MODX for my classic rock band, and the MODX and iPad for my R&B band. In all of these rigs, there is no single board that weighs over 25lbs. That's the ticket for me. 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Adan said:

Francesco will know the correct answer, but my guess is that it depends how many drawbars are out on the Soul.   All out, the key triggers at the very top, no play at all.  This is, of course, real Hammond behavior. 

 

Actually, I think that's kind of backwards. The 9 contact points are fixed. If you have only ONE drawbar out, the sound will come on at one location, no play at all. (That one location may or may not be at the top.) If you have ALL out, each of the 9 component sounds are triggered individually, and that's where you get the "slop."

[Adan]

2 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Actually, I think that's kind of backwards. The 9 contact points are fixed. If you have only ONE drawbar out, the sound will come on at one location, no play at all. (That one location may or may not be at the top.) If you have ALL out, each of the 9 component sounds are triggered individually, and that's where you get the "slop."

I think we're using the word "play" differently.  On the Soul, just like on a real Hammond, the drawbars trigger at different depths  So in answering the question "how shallow or deep do the Soul keys trigger" you necessarily have to talk about different depths for different drawbars.  

 

On the Soul, the highest drawbar tiggers at the very top of the stroke.  There is zero travel before it triggers.  I think that may be different than the SKPro or the Mojo, which if I'm remembering right, have a miniscule bit of travel before trigger.  

 

Interesting that a future update to the Soul may include random triggering.  I would love to see that.

[mate stubb]

I can't speak to a Viscount product I don't have, but I have owned tonewheel Hammonds for over 50 years and can speak to their action.

 

1. Contact firing order is random from key to key. There are 9 long springy copper fingers under each key, pinned at one end with a tiny palladium contact wire at the other end, and all pushed down simultaneously by a plunger that passes through the middle of the finger. 

 

Contact firing order is determined by the miniscule differences in contact tips being bent over years of use.

 

2. You can adjust the overall depth at which the contacts start to fire by loosening the front rail and sliding it up or down slightly (the mounting holes are slotted). When I built my organ controller from console parts I took extensive measurements on my other Hammonds and adjusted accordingly. If I remember correctly, key dip is quite shallow compared to piano at about 3/8". The top contacts start to fire at about 3/16".

[FrancViscount]

FULL GUIDE! 

 

Ciao!

 

 

[Chummy]

 

[KRK]

ciao,

as always, just clean sound at the moment... so as usual I have to think about it 🤣

just with smartphone (mono) mic, for the moment.

better audio demo is coming soon (check also the MeX channel on the tube 😉)

 

for the rock oriented ones... 🤣

[HammondDave]

29 minutes ago, KRK said:

ciao,

as always, just clean sound at the moment... so as usual I have to think about it 🤣

just with smartphone (mono) mic, for the moment.

better audio demo is coming soon (check also the MeX channel on the tube 😉)

 

for the rock oriented ones... 🤣

Sounds pretty good to me. 

[Johnny Laird]

Hey Francesco,

 

Quick question - my 261 Soul is going great guns but the four knobs beside the Volume on top left have a small problem (Keyclick/RotaryAmpGain/CrossTalk/Reverb). Whenever I turn the console on again, they all reset to zero, I have to give a small wiggle on each one to get the setting to kick in. I'm on v1.01 of the software so am wondering if this is by design or fault?

[francesco verni]

Hello Johnny, 

 

I believe your issue is not a real issue, but a function called "program Recall" , please write me at f.verni@viscount so I will easily find the answer with the team!!! ù

Grazie!

 

BTW, we have released tha alt.clones (as in the old legend) but also there are some specials coming on July 30th... I am sure you will appreciate!! Also, a new release on the Soul with new functions and few adjustments ( for example the pedal expression can be smoother). 

 

At your disposal as usual!

[Johnny Laird]

Will do - thanks Francesco. Tried you at f.verni@viscount.it - hoping that works. Looking forward to the updates

[b3plyr]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:28 AM, funkyhammond said:

I just came across this thread and wow. Judging by that video, they have employed some kind of sensor that can tell the exact position of the key at any time. I've always wondered why that would be so hard to implement. Cost and reliability were my guesses. Anyway, if that's what this is, I wonder if that means they can also make a much more adjustable "feel" for triggering external sounds. No need to worry about only having two fixed contacts and deciding what high/low points are suitable for organ but not ideal for pianos. If the height of the note on and note off is programmable for external trigger, that would be another first.

I just received a Viscount Soul 273. Haven’t played it much but my first impression is very good. Regarding the 9 virtual contacts, they really work as advertised! I think the comment above is correct. The magic is in the sensors. I think virtual is a little misleading, as there really are 9 discrete tonewheel sounds. And they are not randomly generated as they are repeatable when you press the key.

[JohnDoe]

 

Waiting for "some specials" and the new release!🍺🎹🍺