Viscount Legend Soul

[jamesgordon]

https://www.viscountinstruments.com/musical-instruments/legend-soul/

Let the shouting begin. 

[Dockeys]

I saw somewhere that they were launching some new products at upcoming NAMM but assumed it was a Leslie type speaker. I guess the legend was due an upgrade? Looks like a digital screen as well so memory to save presets? Handy addition. I like the darker shade of wood as well. 

[bill bosco]

radical , wonder if they were able to use the tp/80  fatar keybed , looks expensive , though .  i'm more excited about the rotary cabinet , i'm thinking

it'll be reasonable , pricewise .

[Outkaster]

I think after 20 odd years of clones we are getting to the point of splitting hairs.

[ElmerJFudd]

Mainly a cosmetic change?  Smaller footprint on the 61 model? 

[jerrythek]

I read on FB that they have 9 key contacts... most of them virtual, but that's a new "first" in the key scanning technology battle.

 

Jerry

 

[Dockeys]

Maybe smaller but heavier, 1.5 kilos heavier. 

[Adan]

"VISCOUNT Legend Soul 261 organ, designed and engineered in Italy in cooperation with Joey DeFrancesco, provides incredible expressive capabilities. It comes in a perfect portable solution with an easy-to-use interface. Legend Soul 261 uses the latest in tonewheel modelling technology with the addiction of our patent pending keyboard able to reproduce the iconic 9 contacts mechanic in digital way, allowing exigent musicians to play without compromise the fabulous original organ sound."

 

Two notable things here.  First, Joey was cooperative.  No one had to threaten to break his fingers.  

 

Second, if this is the first keyboard that comes with an "addiction," does Viscount also offer a 12-step solution?

 

More seriously, it looks interesting, but I'm not sure I could judge the value of a virtual multi-contact simulation without actually playing it, and these will not be available in stores.  I think the virtual simulation on the Hammond SKPro actually does contribute to the playing experience, so this might be as good or better.

[Morrissey]

1 hour ago, Dockeys said:

I saw somewhere that they were launching some new products at upcoming NAMM but assumed it was a Leslie type speaker.

 

I also recall they teased a Leslie clone.  Maybe a FB post with an image of a rotating horn?

[Garubi]

a video showing the 9-contacs keyboard... 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, Garubi said:

a video showing the 9-contacs keyboard... 

 

That’s impressive. 

[cphollis]

Looks very interesting.  Some years back, digital piano slabs got good enough that you didn't miss the real thing so much.  Looks like we're getting very close here.

[Adan]

That video is impressive, and not what I was expecting.  Hopefully Viscount is also loosening up the Fatar action a bit, as Crumar and Hammond have done, to bring it closer to the buttery feel of a well-worn Hammond.  The existing Viscount Legend models are known to have a slightly stiffer feel than other clones.  The differences may be subtle, but the subtleties matter.  I'm thinking the tactile benefits of incremental contacts would be diminished if the action is too tight.

[Spider76]

6 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Mainly a cosmetic change?  Smaller footprint on the 61 model? 

Mahogany wood (MOAR WOOD!)

9 "virtual" contacts

Screen (presets?)

Pipe and transistor organs

On-board effects

USB to host and to device

 

Seems like a pretty big upgrade, before even knowing if the B3 engine itself has been improved.

 

If only they ditched those awful "LEGEND" engravings on the sides and the gargantuan full-moon switch...

[Delaware Dave]

Interesting that they said patent pending.  what's the patent about, virtual key contact technology?  Hammond has that now. If they do get a patent what does this mean for SKPro's virtual contacts?  Will they force Hammond to pay a royalty for the use? force hammond to drop the technology?  

[Joe Muscara]

7 hours ago, Adan said:

our patent pending keyboard

 

6 hours ago, Adan said:

Hopefully Viscount is also loosening up the Fatar action a bit

My guess is that it's not a Fatar, unless they had Fatar build it to their specs.

[Jon E]

Compared to my Viscount Legend Live (TP8O) the video seem to show a lower trigger point before the virtual contacts trigger the first busbar tone. However this is probably closer to the trigger depth of a real Hammond and a necessity for the implementation. Talking about splitting hairs between the clones the action might be the last barrier. Pricing?

[jpgxk3]

Doesn't the HS SK pro have only 3 contact sounds? The short demo from Viscount sounded very much like my old Hammond console layering tones. Love to see a full demo sans overdrive until the end of demo to be able to hear what they have going on on now. Hold some chords and add in the effects etc...looking forward to hearing that. 

[16251]

Virtual contacts for Dummys.  What does this add to the touch?

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, Jon E said:

Compared to my Viscount Legend Live (TP8O) the video seem to show a lower trigger point before the virtual contacts trigger the first busbar tone. However this is probably closer to the trigger depth of a real Hammond and a necessity for the implementation.....

actually no.  with all 9 drawbars out the 1' drawbar on my b3 is triggered after 1/16th of an inch of depression and the remaining 8 drawbars are triggered pretty quickly. what i noticed is that the keys on the legend had to be depressed three quarters of the way down before all 9 drawbars are engaged. i hope that is adjustable ....  i like the technology but feel the implementation is over exaggerated unless it can be adjusted.  we'll see.

[HammondDave]

6 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

actually no.  with all 9 drawbars out the 1' drawbar on my b3 is triggered after 1/16th of an inch of depression and the remaining 8 drawbars are triggered pretty quickly. what i noticed is that the keys on the legend had to be depressed three quarters of the way down before all 9 drawbars are engaged. i hope that is adjustable ....  i like the technology but feel the implementation is over exaggerated unless it can be adjusted.  we'll see.

that’s the first thing I thought of.  Nothing close to a real Hammond console.  Maybe they got a little too cute?

[elif]

Rather than 8 more contacts, a selling point for me would be a keybed duplicating the Hammond's key geometry and physics, i.e. longer keys, felt stops and the right tension as the key is depressed.

[mate stubb]

1 hour ago, ChoppedHam said:

Rather than 8 more contacts, a selling point for me would be a keybed duplicating the Hammond's key geometry and physics, i.e. longer keys, felt stops and the right tension as the key is depressed.

 

I've chased that holy grail myself. I managed to duplicate the geometry and the physics, but not the multiple contacts.

[Adan]

11 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

actually no.  with all 9 drawbars out the 1' drawbar on my b3 is triggered after 1/16th of an inch of depression and the remaining 8 drawbars are triggered pretty quickly. what i noticed is that the keys on the legend had to be depressed three quarters of the way down before all 9 drawbars are engaged.

I'm glad you mentioned this, because it reminded me of my experience with how a real Hammond triggers (it's been a few years for me).  So is the Soul actually going to feel more like real Hammond?  Or did they overshoot the target?  I'll be interested in hearing unbiased reviews from experienced players.

[Delaware Dave]

7 hours ago, Adan said:

I'm glad you mentioned this, because it reminded me of my experience with how a real Hammond triggers (it's been a few years for me).  So is the Soul actually going to feel more like real Hammond?  Or did they overshoot the target?  I'll be interested in hearing unbiased reviews from experienced players.

someone mentioned in another forum that the virtual contacts can be edited for 'spacing'.  It's possible that they increased the spacing purely as a show and tell as to the technology (for video purposes) and hopefully it is adjustable so that the drawbars fire more like a real hammond.  I like the technology; interesting to understand the "cost' to the users for the technology.  Also would like to understand if you have a pre-virtual viscount legend can the firmware (if not hardware based) be added to a prior model.  I guess we'll learn more over the next few months.

[LX 88]

Joey had a lot to do with making the Key B sample what it is

 

I still have my Numa 1 and it still sounds great!  lot of people bitched about it on this forum but when I go back to it I love the CV and I love the leslie sim

 

I always did think the Numa 1 percussion was a little loud. My solution is to run a midi signal into an HX3 module and then feed percussion into the aux in. 

 

I am able to compare the current Viscount with a Mojo module I have And I am always tempted to tweak the Mojo.  The Mojo leslie sim drives me nuts but my favorite is actually the Numa sim. I also like to run percussion separate from the sim and also like upper drawbar tones from the HX3 with out the sim. I like to hear straight tones and spinning  tones mixed. Its sort of like percussion without vibrato which was a cool idea Hammond did when they added percussion to the B-3

[kenheeter]

I had a Numa 1 and absolutely loved it. The C/V was the best I've every played besides my Hamond. There were some reliability issues and the build quality was suspect. Also their software updates were quite difficult to do successfully. That original KeyB sample was great....

[AnotherScott]

On 5/18/2022 at 4:54 PM, Delaware Dave said:

Interesting that they said patent pending.  what's the patent about, virtual key contact technology?  Hammond has that now. If they do get a patent what does this mean for SKPro's virtual contacts?  Will they force Hammond to pay a royalty for the use? force hammond to drop the technology?  

You cannot patent a concept, you can only patent an implementation. So it could only be an issue if Hammond and Viscount both implemented the multi-contact idea the same way. And even then, "prior art" (showing that something has been done the same way before) can invalidate a patent.

[funkyhammond]

I just came across this thread and wow. Judging by that video, they have employed some kind of sensor that can tell the exact position of the key at any time. I've always wondered why that would be so hard to implement. Cost and reliability were my guesses. Anyway, if that's what this is, I wonder if that means they can also make a much more adjustable "feel" for triggering external sounds. No need to worry about only having two fixed contacts and deciding what high/low points are suitable for organ but not ideal for pianos. If the height of the note on and note off is programmable for external trigger, that would be another first.

[Spider76]

News from NAMM? Wasn't Viscount present with the Legend Soul and the new rotary speakers?