Grammys 2024

[stillearning]

7 hours ago, TommyRude said:

…Bad:  Joni Mitchell - -  OK, I love Joni Mitchell, Both Sides Now is a magical treasure that will live on for generations.  But she’s way way way past performance age.  Would have been better to have others perform it, and then maybe give her a lifetime award or something.  I don’t know who talked her into it, but c’mon.  Other folks have demonstrated they can still perform at a high level in very advanced age, i.e. Tony Bennett.  But here, not so much.  Maybe Joni can still operate behind the scenes, write, record, inspire, maybe do some spoken word at the nursing home.

For me, what makes a performance great, is when it resonates inside, in a way that’s hard to describe. Her performance did that. Didn’t care that it wasn’t musically perfect. Made me enjoy it that much more. 

[Outkaster]

16 hours ago, TommyRude said:

No I didn’t, but that supports my point exactly.  Whoever prodded her into this should be ashamed.

 What if she wanted to do it on her own?

[jerrythek]

I was torn... it was great to see that her recovery continues, and she was making cool choices in phrasing and interpretation, showing her still active musical mind. On the other hand, it sounds as though she was singing down an octave! I enjoyed the treatment; surely Jacob chose his piano part as a bit of a tribute to Bill Evans Peace Piece. But... he showed little care for touch and dynamics in the intro etc. It could have been way more subtle. Yes, I know, he's not known for that characteristic, right?

 

Reezekeys reminded me of a perfect performance of hers that spoke to the advance of years and her changed voice/vocal range, that I prefer:

 

 

The Grammys (and Oscars etc.) often do this, paying tribute to iconic artists that are past their prime. At least she's still here to appreciate her much-deserved accolades. 

[Anderton]

When Joni Mitchell was at the TEC Awards a couple years back (I think it was for a lifetime achievement award), she was not able to sing. Several people did cover versions of her songs and truly did her music justice. It was interesting to hear the songs separated from the performer, so you could hear just how genius her songs are on their own. One particular cover, sorry I can't remember who did it, absolutely brought the house down. It was a fitting tribute that accommodated her condition, yet presented her contributions in the best possible light.

[Mark Zeger]

I care most about the jazz categories. My only disappointment was in the large ensemble Grammy. The music of Darcy James Argue’s Secret Society moves big band repertoire forward from the foundation of Gil Evans & Bob Brookmeyer. The Grammy voters do what Grammy voters do and gave the award to the Count Basie Orchestra album of blues with a slate of guest vocalists. While the Basie album is very good, Argue’s “Dynamic Maximum Tension” continues breaking new ground and was more deserving.

 

 

[SMcD]

Didn't tune in, but someone mentioned earlier that they thought Stevie was faking his performance and I'd love to know why.

[MathOfInsects]

22 minutes ago, Mark Zeger said:

I care most about the jazz categories. My only disappointment was in the large ensemble Grammy. The music of Darcy James Argue’s Secret Society moves big band repertoire forward from the foundation of Gil Evans & Bob Brookmeyer. The Grammy voters do what Grammy voters do and gave the award to the Count Basie Orchestra album of blues with a slate of guest vocalists. While the Basie album is very good, Argue’s “Dynamic Maximum Tension” continues breaking new ground and was more deserving.

 

 

Been a fan of his punk-rock big-band approach for ages. I shared one of his tunes in a seminar when I was in grad school, and brought a plague of crickets upon the world. I'm glad to see him getting notice. 

[ProfD]

The real question is why does anyone around here care about the Grammys.😁😎

[Docbop]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

The real question is why does anyone around here care about the Grammys.😁😎

 

I treat the Grammy's like most award show I just look at the list of winners the next day for the few categories I like.   As I get older I know fewer and fewer names of "big" name artists anymore.  I follow some of the new artists so I have an ideas what's going on.  I feel I can't comment on something I haven't given a fair listen to, unlike others who listen with their eyes. 

[HammondDave]

In this age of extreme cynicism we continue to judge artists based on their early abilities. Some artists improve with age, others battle physical and sometimes mental deterioration which affects their musicianship. One thing it does not affect however, is their soul.
 

Brava, Joni. 

[Mark Zeger]

3 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Been a fan of his punk-rock big-band approach for ages. I shared one of his tunes in a seminar when I was in grad school, and brought a plague of crickets upon the world. I'm glad to see him getting notice. 

Maybe 15 years ago, Ingrid Jensen told me she just recorded Infernal Machines and I should get it when released. Love that album! I think his most recent is his best since that debut.

[Ivan May]

22 hours ago, Motif88 said:

One of the few Grammy moments worth watching. I tuned out in the late 80's/early 90's...

I have mixed feelings myself about the Grammys. When former Grammy president Neil Portnow announced a few years ago that female artists need to “step up” if they want to be nominated for a Grammy, that’s when I started losing interest in watching the Grammys.

[TommyRude]

1 hour ago, Ivan May said:

I have mixed feelings myself about the Grammys. When former Grammy president Neil Portnow announced a few years ago that female artists need to “step up” if they want to be nominated for a Grammy, that’s when I started losing interest in watching the Grammys.

yeahbut…. did you notice the lineup for best album?  7 females, 1 male.  The pendulum swang pretty hard this year.  OK and appropriate the nod goes to Taylor Swift, just for the mega global cultural impact.  Although raising my hand - I haven’t heard a single song of hers the past year, unless it was playing in an elevator.

[Outkaster]

3 hours ago, HammondDave said:

In this age of extreme cynicism we continue to judge artists based on their early abilities. Some artists improve with age, others battle physical and sometimes mental deterioration which affects their musicianship. One thing it does not affect however, is their soul.
 

Brava, Joni. 

 You said it better than me. 

[Steve Nathan]

On 2/5/2024 at 6:12 AM, George88 said:

Stevie Wonder didn’t actual piano, right? His arms were moving as if they were.  However, his arms moved the same way when the piano wasn’t sounding and the camera never caught his hands on the keyboard. Why?

The piano you heard at the beginning of the Tony Bennet tribute was coming from the Tony Bennet video. Probably the great Ralph Sharon.  Stevie played after that.

[Docbop]

All the music on the main Grammy show is pre-recorded so everything on stage was just acting like they are playing.    The Grammy Pre-Show where they give out most of the awards that aren't seen on the TV is one of the last award shows that has a live band for the event.   Too bad it isn't reversed and the main Grammy show have a live band like in the old days. 

[o0Ampy0o]

The clips available of Stevie are of the last finale lines and he is just holding his hands out without weight in the keys so maybe he would only step on the video piano and opted not to play much of the whole performance?
 

What was sad and flat out rude and callous was Mariah Carey's manner of treatment towards Stevie when she accepted an award.

 

[TommyRude]

7 hours ago, Outkaster said:

 What if she wanted to do it on her own?

of course that may be the case.  My rant was based on a snap reaction to seeing the performance, without any knowledge beforehand about anything recent she’s been doing.  I see now that Brandi Carlisle has been the driving force (as Mike mentioned earlier).  It just seemed to me that she wasn’t really genuinely into it, kinda picking up the cane and randomly tapping it, it just struck me as dragging someone up there who would be more comfortable living out their golden years away from the stage spotlight.  Of course Brandi and everyone (including me) has a heartfelt admiration and respect for Joni, and the audience of course is going to applaud.

[David Emm]

Its hard to get too worked up about the Grammys in general, but many notables have been nominated, including Yes, King Crimson, Robert Fripp solo and more. Jeff Beck won SIX of them, so the flashiness over pop divas doesn't mean players of merit aren't being heard.

[TommyRude]

I would LOVE to see them do away with the produced/pre-recorded pieces, and just have it all live performances.  I thought they did that a few years back, and it was awesome!  Maybe not feasible, many artists may not want to go that route, a bad moment might negatively impact a career.  But real-live would be so much better.

[TommyRude]

OK, so maybe I was way off base on my initial reaction.  If folks are willing to shell out $$ to come and see you play, no matter how old you are, and they have a great time, who’s some knucklehead internet warrior to say anything about it?  One of my friends posted up this - don’t know if it’s accurate but so what! 😁😂

[ProfD]

13 hours ago, TommyRude said:

Looking at the list of senior citizens still touring, my 1st thought was that most of the members of their backing bands are young enough to be their sons, daughters, grandchildren or great-grandchildren.🤣😎 

[TommyRude]

9 hours ago, ProfD said:

Looking at the list of senior citizens still touring, my 1st thought was that most of the members of their backing bands are young enough to be their sons, daughters, grandchildren or great-grandchildren.🤣😎 

I went on the road last summer, I could have been grandfather to other members of the group 😂😂😂😂

[stoken6]

On 2/7/2024 at 4:07 AM, TommyRude said:

OK, so maybe I was way off base on my initial reaction.  If folks are willing to shell out $$ to come and see you play, no matter how old you are, and they have a great time, who’s some knucklehead internet warrior to say anything about it?  One of my friends posted up this - don’t know if it’s accurate but so what! 😁😂

Frankie Valli? Yes I guess strictly speaking he does "tour" (in that he moves from venue to venue), but he doesn't do much singing while he's on stage. I suspect some of the others on that list (certainly not all) may come into the same category.

 

I've heard the argument "people don't care that it's playback, they still have a good time" and I'm uncomfortable with it.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[o0Ampy0o]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:49 PM, Docbop said:

All the music on the main Grammy show is pre-recorded so everything on stage was just acting like they are playing.    The Grammy Pre-Show where they give out most of the awards that aren't seen on the TV is one of the last award shows that has a live band for the event.   Too bad it isn't reversed and the main Grammy show have a live band like in the old days. 

 

Miley Cyrus was singing live. She broke off and threw in "I just won my first Grammy" something like that. Also sort of reprimanded the audience for not singing along. She also had the camera close up and it clearly was singing live.

 

But typically I have seen headsets and mics held like ice cream cones covering singer's mouths assisting the ruse. I didn't watch the broadcast but there are clips all over of Cyrus's performance.

 

She really needs to layoff the effort to be cool in hard rock circles. Everything is prefaced with F-N's and she scream-sings trying to prove she isn't a Disney teenie pop singer. She had a surprisingly good voice. That Flowers song sounds like a 50 year old chain smoker.

[HSS]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:07 PM, TommyRude said:

OK, so maybe I was way off base on my initial reaction.  If folks are willing to shell out $$ to come and see you play, no matter how old you are, and they have a great time, who’s some knucklehead internet warrior to say anything about it?  One of my friends posted up this - don’t know if it’s accurate but so what! 😁😂

FWIW... I don't know if it qualifies as "touring", but Bob Weir and Mickey Hart are doing a several week residency at the Sphere here in Las Vegas beginning in May with Dead and Company. Bob and Mickey are probably around 80 but they'll be backed up by some young guns, including John Mayer.  Needless to say, the local Deadheads, some of whom I play with in a Dead tribute band, are salivating about it and spending small fortunes reserving seats for all of the shows. I'm not a Deadhead (and I'm cheap) so I won't be joining 'em. 

[Floyd Tatum]

14 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

She really needs to layoff the effort to be cool in hard rock circles. Everything is prefaced with F-N's and she scream-sings trying to prove she isn't a Disney teenie pop singer. She had a surprisingly good voice. That Flowers song sounds like a 50 year old chain smoker.

I didn't get that from Miley Cyrus' Grammy performance - she sounds mature, yes, and she ain't no soprano, but not like a smoker at all, to me.   I guess, kind of a Cher vibe.   After reading this thread, I first watched her video for this song (which definitely woke me up!), and then her Grammy performance, which somehow had a darker quality to it.   I suspect the Grammy performance is more like what she really sounds like.   Pretty good.

I really wish female entertainers had more modesty.   Each new generation of female pop singers feels like they have to shock people to get cred.  Not all of them, but some, to be sure.  Imagine where this leads.  Who do we have to thank for this - Madonna?  I don't know.   Maybe it's understandable, when the most obscene porn is waiting in the wings.

 

[o0Ampy0o]

29 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

I didn't get that from Miley Cyrus' Grammy performance - she sounds mature, yes, and she ain't no soprano, but not like a smoker at all, to me.   I guess, kind of a Cher vibe.   After reading this thread, I first watched her video for this song (which definitely woke me up!), and then her Grammy performance, which somehow had a darker quality to it.   I suspect the Grammy performance is more like what she really sounds like.   Pretty good.

I really wish female entertainers had more modesty.   Each new generation of female pop singers feels like they have to shock people to get cred.  Not all of them, but some, to be sure.  Imagine where this leads.  Who do we have to thank for this - Madonna?  I don't know.   Maybe it's understandable, when the most obscene porn is waiting in the wings.

 

 

I was speaking of the single not her Grammy performance which is what I meant when I said that Flowers song rather than just keeping focused on the Grammys. Have you listened to the single? She definitely sounded fine on the Grammys. It is the version played on the radio which sounds like a 50 year smoker. 

[Floyd Tatum]

25 minutes ago, o0Ampy0o said:

I was speaking of the single not her Grammy performance which is what I meant when I said that Flowers song rather than just keeping focused on the Grammys. Have you listened to the single? She definitely sounded fine on the Grammys. It is the version played on the radio which sounds like a 50 year smoker.

I watched her "official video" for Flowers, and I didn't get a smoker vibe.   Like I said, she's got a lower-range voice, but I don't hear smoking in either the video (which I'm assuming is the same as what's played on the radio) or the Grammy performance.   By "50-year old smoker", are you referring to how her voice is a lower-ranged voice?

[David Emm]

57 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

I really wish female entertainers had more modesty.   Each new generation of female pop singers feels like they have to shock people to get cred.  Not all of them, but some, to be sure.  Imagine where this leads.  Who do we have to thank for this - Madonna?  I don't know.   Maybe it's understandable, when the most obscene porn is waiting in the wings.

 

Eh, once you've seen one girl singer with cruise missiles filling out her top, you've generally seen 'em all. Kate Bush went for a bit of sexy, but she was never crass. I also have a fierce luv for The Roches' "Keep On Doing," produced and briefly played upon by Robert Fripp. I've never taken to a female artist based on just her looks. I always seemed to HEAR the Annie Lennoxs and Annie Haslams, got dazzled and THEN saw a picture of them. They'd already established what made them powerful, so the promo shots were secondary. Makes the whole process taste sweeter.