Kurzweil PC4

[AnotherScott]

Is there a sitar sound available to load in?

[The Piano Man]

PC4 looks good but still loving my PC3x. I know they divide opinion but I love the Triple Strike pianos. The Studio Grand with a touch of longer release edited in works for me. It cuts through so well but still has plenty body.

 

I used to own a Nord Piano and the sound was just lost when playing live. It didn’t matter what program I used or what setup. 
 

The PC3x, even in mono, into a EV ZXa1 is almost perfect for me. Just a little bassy when I go direct in without a mixer. 
 

So, one slightly OT question: 

 

I see the PC4 has onboard eq via knobs. Can I adjust the low, mid and hi eq on the PC3 and, if so, how?

 

step by step guide would be amazing!!

 

Looking for the quickest way to take some low end out of the Studio Grand program. 

[ioannes]

On 6/9/2020 at 6:05 PM, hipogrito said:

Hi,

 

The P in FPGA means Programmable. Lena is programmable and it evolves. The CPU and the rest of the system also matters on what's possible to do for the keyboard, by the way.

 

As of today:

 

The PC4 has a Lena that is capable of doing 256 voices of polyphony + 32 units of FXs for programs + global FXs.

The SP6/Forte SE have a Lena that is capable of doing 128 voices of polyphony + 32 units of FXs for programs + global FXs.

 

Each of our voices has 4 DSP slots for things like a filter.

 

Last, these are Flashplay (Patented) voices. We don't need to preload the samples in RAM in order to play them. We can play them straight out of NAND flash.

 

A lot of power in one single chip.

 

And tomorrow could be different.

 

Regards,

Fran

 

Hi Fran, reading your post I understand the core of current Kurz workstations is an FPGA; I wonder if it is possible to know more about the logic diagram, of course nothing about hardware details but an overall view (i.e. FPGA core, D/A converters, I/O interfaces ......); I 'd like understand main-blocks a (kurzweil) workstation is made by (I have PC2X and PC3K6) with respect Korg or Yamaha (I know they have a pc-based core)

 

Thanks

Ioannes

 

 

[hipogrito]

Hi Ioannes,

 

Other than the information at kurzweil.com we cannot give any more details of the architecture. But yes, Lena is an FPGA that can be updated on the field. We have actually included updates of Lena at least in one product updates. 

 

Regards,

Fran

 

[Mighty Motif Max]

Interesting fact - most of the KB3 presets in the PC4 use an inferior rotary/leslie sim than the identical presets on the PC3. I loaded in the full PC3 soundset and, as I thought I remembered, the organs sounded much improved over the same-named factory presets in the PC4. Take a patch like "PerfectStrangers" - it's really weak on the PC4. Load in the PC3 version, and it's like a whole new organ. It had been bugging me since I got the PC4 but I thought that maybe I wasn't remembering the PC3 presets accurately...since the PC3's been out of commission since before I got the PC4 I couldn't do a direct comparison.

 

For reference, some member in the Kurzweil PC Series Group on Facebook converted the PC3 and KORE64 presets to fit in the PC4 categories and has those files available for download.

PC3 Presets: https://www.facebook.com/groups/kurzweilpcseries/permalink/5721021754621218

KORE64 Presets: https://www.facebook.com/groups/kurzweilpcseries/permalink/5746894368700623/

 

 

[Al Coda]

On 8/19/2022 at 7:19 PM, hipogrito said:

Lena is an FPGA that can be updated on the field

 

Kurz should licence HX3 which runs on FPGA too.

 

I can imagine, with some clever code porting, it should be possible and we´d get an amazing accurate dual manual tonewheel- and leslie clone in the next upcoming KURZ flagship.

 

 

A.C.

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, Al Coda said:

 

Kurz should licence HX3 which runs on FPGA too.

 

I can imagine, with some clever code porting, it should be possible and we´d get an amazing accurate dual manual tonewheel- and leslie clone in the next upcoming KURZ flagship.

 

 

A.C.

 

I'd buy that keyboard instantly....

[kaptainkeys]

On 8/24/2022 at 4:03 PM, Delaware Dave said:

 

I'd buy that keyboard instantly....

You aren't the only one...

[The Piano Man]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:32 AM, The Piano Man said:

PC4 looks good but still loving my PC3x. I know they divide opinion but I love the Triple Strike pianos. The Studio Grand with a touch of longer release edited in works for me. It cuts through so well but still has plenty body.

 

I used to own a Nord Piano and the sound was just lost when playing live. It didn’t matter what program I used or what setup. 
 

The PC3x, even in mono, into a EV ZXa1 is almost perfect for me. Just a little bassy when I go direct in without a mixer. 
 

So, one slightly OT question: 

 

I see the PC4 has onboard eq via knobs. Can I adjust the low, mid and hi eq on the PC3 and, if so, how?

 

step by step guide would be amazing!!

 

Looking for the quickest way to take some low end out of the Studio Grand program. 

 

[Delaware Dave]

52 minutes ago, The Piano Man said:

 

The PC3x has two EQ's:

• A global EQ which can be seen when you go into Effects Mode (i.e. push the effects mode button to the left of the screen).  That unfortunately is global and reducing the Bass would globally reduce the bass on all programs.
• to reduce the bass on just the program itself, edit the program, then go into the "PROGFX" soft button and add an EQ 'box' to the effects chain (so your adding EQ to that effects chain).  Adjust the bass down and save the effect (save the effect as a 'user' effect so that it doesn't impact other programs using that effects chain), then save the program.  It would only impact that specific program. 

Easy peazy.

[Tom Williams]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:01 AM, Al Coda said:

 

I can imagine, with some clever code porting, it should be possible and we´d get an amazing accurate dual manual tonewheel- and leslie clone in the next upcoming KURZ flagship.

It seems tome they ought to be able to provide that with current hardware for splits and/or external MIDI controllers.  We've got plenty of polyphony to spare at this point.

[Delaware Dave]

20 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

It seems tome they ought to be able to provide that with current hardware for splits and/or external MIDI controllers.  We've got plenty of polyphony to spare at this point.

 

My understanding is that it has something to do with the chip (Lena? Mara?) that they use that only accomodates one KB3 to be used.  The VAST organs are almost as good and can be used on the lower or split manual.  The only issue is that KB3 organs are phased-locked notes and VAST organs are not.  Using them on the lower manual disguises that to some degree so I use that as my workaround but yes, two KB3's, improved C/V, fixing the percussion to not go through the C/V and improving the leslie; you'd have a great  organ ROMPLER.  Even putting KB3 through a Vent or GSI BURN sounds pretty darn good as it sits now.  Small/quick gigs that's what I've been doing, nobody is the wiser (other than me).

[AnotherScott]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:01 AM, Al Coda said:

Kurz should licence HX3 which runs on FPGA too.

I don't believe there is any inherent compatibility whatsoever between differently designed FPGA environments. FPGA is basically a processor that can be reprogrammed for different purposes, but once it's programmed to operate in a specific fashion, it is as different from other-programmed FPGAs as two different designs of microprocessors would be, with likewise no compatibility between them. Though I admit this is at the edge of my knowledge.

 

On 8/22/2022 at 11:05 PM, Mighty Motif Max said:

Interesting fact - most of the KB3 presets in the PC4 use an inferior rotary/leslie sim than the identical presets on the PC3. I loaded in the full PC3 soundset and, as I thought I remembered, the organs sounded much improved over the same-named factory presets in the PC4. Take a patch like "PerfectStrangers" - it's really weak on the PC4. Load in the PC3 version, and it's like a whole new organ. It had been bugging me since I got the PC4 but I thought that maybe I wasn't remembering the PC3 presets accurately...since the PC3's been out of commission since before I got the PC4 I couldn't do a direct comparison.

Indeed, there are unexpected large differences between the original PC3 version and the PC4 version of some of the sounds of the same name. I checked out Perfect Strangers, and yup, it has a different rotary effect... "PerfectStrRty X" vs."DoubleDistRtry20", and its fx usage is 9/11 instead of 14/15 on the original. (I understand what the 9 and 14 mean, I don't understand what the 11 and 15 mean... but the new one uses fewer fx resources... and sounds like it.) I agree, the old one is better. It's not consistent, though. There are other sounds where I prefer the PC4 version, and others where there's little to no difference. And the difference isn't always the Leslie. On "CheckYoHead B3", "Classic Traffic," "Clean Perc," and "Dew Dropper," for example, the big difference is the amount of leakage. On "Ezra's Burner," it's Leslie and EQ and chorus (removed)... and in that case, I much prefer the new one. And so on. And it's not just organ sounds, some sounds in other categories differ from their PC3 versions as well. The EPs Woodstock Clunker and CP80 Enhanced have more effects on them in the new versions. But the organ category is where you seem to find the ones with the most audibly substantial differences,

 

(Disclaimer: I've loaded other sounds into the PC4, some of which could conceivably had the same names, so I'm not 100% sure which version of a same-named program came from where... but based on the numberings, I'm pretty sure what I've observed above is correct.)

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

Picking up from my previous post, there are differences all over the place. One whose design choice particularly baffled me is 12SAWMWheelLead. Smartly, the PC4 version makes use of aftertouch, whereas the PC3 version apparently did not... but they also completely changed the actual mod wheel effect.

 

The head-scratcher here is that the AT and mod wheel both do the same thing! Wouldn't it have made more sense  to leave the mod wheel doing what it had always done, and have just the AT do the new thing? Instead, they have a created a situation where someone coming from a PC3 will no longer have the mod wheel do what the expect, AND even a new-to-Kurzweil player only has one, identical mod effect available regardless of whether they use the wheel or the aftertouch, when they could have had the additional expressive option of having mod wheel do one thing and AT do another, giving the player a performance choice of two different effects, which could be used individually or in combination. It seems they had to go out of their way to make it work worse than if the they had simply added the AT effect and left the MW effect the way it was. 

[ehand]

On 2/2/2021 at 7:16 PM, bfields said:

 

That's a good tip, thank you! It's still pretty tough, but, yes, if I aim for the right spot it's better.

 

Now my next problem is the expression pedal.... I tried the two I have on hand (Roland EV-5, Yamaha FC-7), and they both reach 128, but neither goes lower than 40-50ish. Other keyboards I've used have some kind of global pedal calibration menu, but I'm searched the manual and the menus and I'm not finding anything.

I'm having a very hard time getting a suitable pressure setting on my PC4 to change the rotation speed in a multi with a KB3.  It was easy on my PC3.  I didn't have to mess with press S percentages.  There's not adequate info in the manual.

[ehand]

If anyone discovers a great setting for using pressure to change Leslie rotation speed on the PC4, please let me know.  Thank you!

[Tom Williams]

3 hours ago, ehand said:

If anyone discovers a great setting for using pressure to change Leslie rotation speed on the PC4, please let me know.  Thank you!

We oughta be able to use a flip-flop FUN, triggering at an AT pressure of 120 or greater. 

For starters, here's a flip-flop I created a few years ago:

 

FUN       Operation       Input A    Input B
======    =============   =======    =======
FXFUN1    a - b           ON         FXFUN2
FXFUN2    Sample b On a   Soft Pd    FXFUN1

Then on the MOD page:

Box     Param   Adjust   Source   Depth
=====   =====   ======   ======   =====
Box 2   Speed   Slow     FXFUN1   1

I'm already off to bed, so I am just reposting old code; but I think if you replace FUN2's Soft Pd with Channel AT, and replace FUN1's ON with some absolute number between 0 and 1 (like .8, maybe), it might get you somewhere.  I think.

[bfields]

8 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

We oughta be able to use a flip-flop FUN, triggering at an AT pressure of 120 or greater. 

For starters, here's a flip-flop I created a few years ago:

Woah, that's awesome.

 

I don't think replacing the "ON" value does anything useful, though.  Seems like you need input A to FUN2 to be (channel AT - threshhold), for some threshhold value.

 

Without that it's going to trigger whenever pressure goes above 64, which may be good enough?

[ehand]

12 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

We oughta be able to use a flip-flop FUN, triggering at an AT pressure of 120 or greater. 

For starters, here's a flip-flop I created a few years ago:

 

FUN       Operation       Input A    Input B
======    =============   =======    =======
FXFUN1    a - b           ON         FXFUN2
FXFUN2    Sample b On a   Soft Pd    FXFUN1

Then on the MOD page:

Box     Param   Adjust   Source   Depth
=====   =====   ======   ======   =====
Box 2   Speed   Slow     FXFUN1   1

I'm already off to bed, so I am just reposting old code; but I think if you replace FUN2's Soft Pd with Channel AT, and replace FUN1's ON with some absolute number between 0 and 1 (like .8, maybe), it might get you somewhere.  I think.

Thanks Tom!  I've never tried programming the FUN settings, even on my old PC3.  I'll give it a try.

Thanks Tom!  I've never tried programming the FUN settings, even on my old PC3.  I'll give it a try.

[Tom Williams]

14 hours ago, bfields said:

I don't think replacing the "ON" value does anything useful, though.  Seems like you need input A to FUN2 to be (channel AT - threshhold), for some threshhold value.

 

Without that it's going to trigger whenever pressure goes above 64, which may be good enough?

If I were playing, I'd probably accidentally toggle the rotor speed just by hitting the keys hard; that's why I am not sure 64 (or .5, whichever way you look at it) will be good enough.   If tweaking the "On" doesn't solve it, I would probably add one more FUN to reduce the AT value, either by multiplication or subtraction.

[Dockeys]

Was looking at a PC4 online over the last few weeks as an alternative to the MODX8 I sold last year. The action seems to receive mixed reviews. Was going to buy one online and try it out as no store here stocks these types of Kurzweil boards. Was browsing last week at a well known European online store and they were €1799 new and as of this weekend they are now €1999? What gives with that kind of increase? 

[Fleer]

I still love that PC4-88 Medeli action and prefer it to the Fatars I played. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I bought the K-Sounds Epic Grand PC3K soundset yesterday, as over time I have become less and less fond of the stock pianos in the PC4. It's interesting...the stock 7' Yamaha sample is great for a lot of pop/modern worship/salsa playing, but the relatively short decay makes it less suited to solo piano or even ragtime. I've always treated it as more of an upright sample than a true grand piano sample, because of the great character it has...but the short decay isn't ideal for ballads or jazz. The 9' German Grand is better on the decay side, and is what I default to for most solo piano stuff, but I always feel like I can hear the sample stretch points - I definitely noticed this more with the old Triple Strike sample in my PC3, but it's always inopportune notes that jump out to me (like on the PC3 it was the C5-G5 range (if C4 is middle C). The German Grand is definitely an improvement, but I can't say that I've played a gig where I've listened back to the recording later/even while playing and thought that it really sounded like a grand piano; it fares better in headphones but the sample stretches or whatever I'm hearing are still noticeable. The 7' sample does, by contrast, sound much more like an acoustic piano, but the shorter decay limits it I think. I'm definitely curious if the full Forte samples sounded significantly better (since the K2700 is also "optimized", but with a bit more content at least). From some of the videos of the Forte that I've seen, it isn't clear to me whether what I'm hearing as "sample stretch points" sometimes with the PC4 are actually that - it might be part of the samples themselves since from what I understand the Forte has every note of the piano patches sampled.

 

Onto the Epic Grand - having been made for the PC3K, it's a smaller sampleset (121mb for the large bank, which I'm using). It has its own oddities - namely the midrange EQ settings, rather bright pianissimo samples, and a fairly short decay length on the "natural" samples themselves. The last one is made up for by some patches that have tweaked some settings to get a much more realistic decay. I've experimented with some EQ and I think I can get it in the ballpark of what I want. No matter what it's a significant improvement over the German Grand sample, in my opinion, just for realism. It remains to be seen if I can tame out the pianissimo layers so it feels more dynamic at low velocities. There's also one sample stretch (or something in the sample itself) that I hear on E1, that reminds me of the stock German Grand's rather boxy midrange in that octave, and the highest octaves are on the thin side, but it's still a better experience overall than the stock German Grand. I have a gig this week which will be the real acid test for the Epic Grand, and I'll report back on my impressions then.

 

Having played the Medeli action more than any other keybed over the past 1.5 years, it's good, but it's not as good as the Nord-tweaked TP40, or even the original Kawai RHC (in the ES110). It always feels like I'm fighting it a bit on up-tempo pieces (but I've played some acoustic pianos like that as well, so it's not an issue of realism there), and it seems that the overall travel is a bit deeper than expected for soft dynamics in particular. I've come to the conclusion that it's closer to a Yamaha upright action (think the P22 in particular) than anything else. Which is to say it's not bad at all - it's not my favorite but I've played worse, and I like it better than some acoustic actions I have played over the years.

 

Still loving the overall weight of the PC4...that plus my MODX7 is a nice lightweight powerhouse rig. That said, the MODX7 has a better build quality...I'm always a bit nervous about the PC4 just because it creaks and things at times, and I do treat my instruments well.

[Mighty Motif Max]

On a positive note: my favorite feature on the PC4, aside from the strong controller features, vintage keys patches, and orchestral sounds, is one of the least advertised - the Key Triggers, or what I would call chord triggers. This is incredibly useful for modern pop music when you don't have a laptop-based rig to help achieve this. For example, I can cover string lines and house-style piano chord comps at the same time, whereas usually I would have all my fingers taken up by the piano part alone and have to compromise with layering a string patch under the piano part in the upper octaves, or similar. This video shows this feature on the Forte, but it works identically on the PC4.

 

 

 

My personal opinion, as a 20 year old guy seeing where a lot of the younger keys-playing market is heading, is that Kurzweil should start pushing this feature a lot more in their advertising. It's super useful in situations where you would be expected to run tracks otherwise (that's an entirely different discussion lol), and it seems like cover band repertoire is shifting mostly to either rock or '80s-2010s pop, with the pop side shifting to newer music all the time. This could definitely be regional as well, but I think the key trigger function is a hugely underrated feature on Kurzweil boards. If the total number of key triggers per patch could be increased that would also be great - as a workaround I've just duplicated parts in the multi with the same sounds and edited the remaining chord triggers to fill out any additional triggers I need, but it would be nice to have more available per part. But it's a super handy feature if you're covering modern pop music and don't want to run a laptop rig or tracks!

[Delaware Dave]

9 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

 I'm definitely curious if the full Forte samples sounded significantly better

 

They do ....

[Franz Schiller]

Hey gang, I just got my PC4-7 and I'm loving it!

 

Quick question, is there a way to set a default bass sound when you hit the Split button? It seems to default to 847 no matter what. I'd really prefer to default to a bass sound of my own choosing.

 

(Apologies if this has been discussed; I couldn't find it in a google/manual search.)

[Tom Williams]

On 12/3/2022 at 4:01 PM, Franz Schiller said:

Quick question, is there a way to set a default bass sound when you hit the Split button? It seems to default to 847 no matter what. I'd really prefer to default to a bass sound of my own choosing.

Yes and no.  The split, layer, and single modes are controlled by normally read-only Multi's (from faulty memory, they're around entry 2048). 

There is a special, undocumented developer mode that, among other things, makes those writeable.

 

Kurzweil did this because a lot of "warranty" problems turned out to be caused by users messing with those parameters and rendering them unplayable.

 

So you could, in theory, set up developer mode and then set up layer 2 to be the bass you want by default on all splits. 

 

What's recommended instead is to define your own splits and then select them via Quick Access.

 

Disclaimer: I have set my PC4-7 into Developer mode and significantly tweaked the settings.

Mea-Culpa-claimer: aforementioned tweaking put my second channel out of tune for nearly two years before I figured out what I had done wrong.

[Franz Schiller]

Thanks a bunch Tom!

 

So I guess accessing developer mode might void the warranty?

 

Yeah, I figure creating my own template was one way. My reasoning is that in a live group improv situation, that I might be on any given random program, and that I might need to kick on a bass split. And doing so with one button is obviously the best solution. But if I have to hit "split" and then enter a different memorized bass sound, that's a lot of extra steps. Likewise with switching on a user template, and changing the right hand zone to the program I was on earlier...if that all makes sense.

 

Thanks again!

[Franz Schiller]

I just installed the Dave Weiser sound set on my PC4-7 and they are sweeeeeeeeeeeet! In particular, I love the bass sounds. The PC4 stock bass patches are pretty meh, but Dave 's are excellent; my fave is the Beastie Boy fuzz bass.

 

Thanks Dave!

[Dave Weiser]

On 12/8/2022 at 2:23 PM, Franz Schiller said:

I just installed the Dave Weiser sound set on my PC4-7 and they are sweeeeeeeeeeeet! In particular, I love the bass sounds. The PC4 stock bass patches are pretty meh, but Dave 's are excellent; my fave is the Beastie Boy fuzz bass.

 

Thanks Dave!

Thanks for the shout, glad you like the sounds!

 

I'm happy to share my custom Kurz sounds with anyone on this forum. I've got custom sets for SP6, PC4, Forte and K2700 - the same "private reserve" stuff I give to my own customers. The sets include gig-ready pianos, more/better EPs, lots of virtual analog, and a few sounds that I've created for Broadway and big rock acts. Just shoot me an email and I'll send them over. weiserdav@gmail.com