Kurzweil PC4

[Synthaholic]

On 5/20/2021 at 11:31 AM, miden said:

Referring to posts above, that Kurzweil Creator looked ok UNTIL, I read it needs iLok

I bought Kurzweil Creator from Chicken Systems. I had concerns about iLok, also. But the owner wrote back and said:

 

Quote

 iLok isn't just a physical dongle anymore. There's a free Cloud service that works too. The only
reason for the iLok Physical Dongle add-in option is just in case you
want a physical dongle. It's not mandatory. There's no additional expense.

(The physical dongle is helpful for a couple reason: you can run
Translator effectively on multiple computers, plus the physical
dongle can be used for any iLok-protected software. We have about 47
licenses on our physical dongle here. But, again, it's not mandatory.)

 

 

I had no issues and no additional expense. I just signed up for an iLok account and was good to go! So don't let that stop you from purchasing Kurzweil Creator or any of their other Creator and Translator programs. They have quite an array of programs. Unfortunately, I haven't messed with mine very much yet. I want to auto-sample (built-in to the Creator) all my old synths and rack modules, then sell them. I just haven't found the time yet.

[Synthaholic]

Ok, I know I posted about these inexpensive Kurzweil PC4/PC4-7 power supplies before but I cannot find that post.

 

Just a heads up that after 300+ setups/breakdowns I noticed the wires were loosening from the block. When I finish playing, the first piece I unplug is this power supply, and I've always "fished" it up off the floor by the end that plugs into the keyboard, figuring that the block is not very heavy. I won't be doing that any longer. I'll save this one as an emergency spare.

 

[Synthaholic]

On 8/24/2023 at 10:20 PM, Synthaholic said:

I bought Kurzweil Creator from Chicken Systems. I had concerns about iLok, also. But the owner wrote back and said:

 

 

 

I had no issues and no additional expense. I just signed up for an iLok account and was good to go! So don't let that stop you from purchasing Kurzweil Creator or any of their other Creator and Translator programs. They have quite an array of programs. Unfortunately, I haven't messed with mine very much yet. I want to auto-sample (built-in to the Creator) all my old synths and rack modules, then sell them. I just haven't found the time yet.

This is a damn impressive list of sample import formats:

 

Products : Kurzweil Creator : Import Formats (chickensys.com)

[ehand]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:17 PM, bfields said:

Just unboxed a PC4 and played around for an hour.

 

My only immediate complaint is the aftertouch--it's so hard to engage, I doubt I'll ever use it. I found the "Pressure Map" and "Press S Override" settings--I don't suppose there's any other calibration I've missed?

 

[ehand]

I have the same problem. It wasn't a problem on my PC3 (which died). I used pressure to control the Leslie speed. It worked very smoothly. That's nearly impossible on my PC4, even with the press S override, the lightest touch setting and max pressure. I've tried every combination - no dice. 

[Delaware Dave]

2 hours ago, ehand said:

I have the same problem. It wasn't a problem on my PC3 (which died). I used pressure to control the Leslie speed. It worked very smoothly. That's nearly impossible on my PC4, even with the press S override, the lightest touch setting and max pressure. I've tried every combination - no dice. 

The issue is a hardware issue, i.e. the keybed they are using.  The solution is a software adjustment.  Send a note to Kurz and they can make a software adjustment to the pressure map so that pressure will engage more easily.

 

[AnotherScott]

42 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

The issue is a hardware issue, i.e. the keybed they are using.  The solution is a software adjustment.  Send a note to Kurz and they can make a software adjustment to the pressure map so that pressure will engage more easily.

If something is a hardware issue, i think the solution is rarely a software adjustment, beyond maybe making "working around" something so as to make something bad a little less bad! But we'll see what happens...

[felis]

5 hours ago, ehand said:

I have the same problem. It wasn't a problem on my PC3 (which died). I used pressure to control the Leslie speed. It worked very smoothly. That's nearly impossible on my PC4, even with the press S override, the lightest touch setting and max pressure. I've tried every combination - no dice. 

 

You can set the press s override up to 300.  I think if you could set it up to 3000, there might be some progress.  🤣

[Tom Williams]

1 hour ago, felis said:

 

You can set the press s override up to 300.  I think if you could set it up to 3000, there might be some progress.  🤣

On my PC4-7 (does that come out to negative 3?), I found 200% to be pretty good.

[AnotherScott]

IIRC, the issue with the difficult PC4 aftertouch is that the aftertouch sensor is physically located far into the key. If you slide your finger up into the key when you press down for aftertouch, it will be easier to trigger it. (ETA: I'm talking about the white keys here. The front of the black key surfaces are already close to the AT sensors.)

[felis]

20 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

On my PC4-7 (does that come out to negative 3?), I found 200% to be pretty good.

 

I've got both the PC4 and the PC4-7.  I think the AT on the pc4-7 is better.  Not a lot better, but some.

I think the percentage is a multiplier, because at 0, I have to stand on the key to get any response.

Set to 300, I just have to use an unreasonable amount of pressure.

 

A while back, I had a PC3le, and the AT on that felt absolutely perfect to me. 

It had other problems though, and the editing left a lot to be desired.

[Delaware Dave]

18 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

If something is a hardware issue, i think the solution is rarely a software adjustment, beyond maybe making "working around" something so as to make something bad a little less bad! But we'll see what happens...

Disagree with you on this issue; the software needs to be adjusted to accommodate the differing keybed used.  Now that being said even making a software adjustment might not be enough to accommodate a 'perfect' adjustment but there should be an improvement by making a software adjustment.

 

[Meta]

Anyone know how to set up the PC4-7 to have momentary footswitch control of Leslie speed (fast speed only when footswitch held down)?

 

Thanks!

[Tom Williams]

3 hours ago, Meta said:

Anyone know how to set up the PC4-7 to have momentary footswitch control of Leslie speed (fast speed only when footswitch held down)?

It's doable.  You will need to edit the effects chain.  On its MOD page (the effects chain's, not the patch's), select (typically) box 2 -> speed and assign a pedal, probably the soft pedal?, to it.  Save that version of the effects chain, and then use that saved chain on whatever patches you want. 

[ehand]

On 9/28/2023 at 12:28 PM, Delaware Dave said:

Disagree with you on this issue; the software needs to be adjusted to accommodate the differing keybed used.  Now that being said even making a software adjustment might not be enough to accommodate a 'perfect' adjustment but there should be an improvement by making a software adjustment.

 

I should call Kurzweil and discuss this - the Medini keybed, and the required AT setting vs the software setup.  If they have the same software routine as the PC3, a numerical setting may need to be changed for the Medini keybed.

[ehand]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:56 AM, Tom Williams said:

It's doable.  You will need to edit the effects chain.  On its MOD page (the effects chain's, not the patch's), select (typically) box 2 -> speed and assign a pedal, probably the soft pedal?, to it.  Save that version of the effects chain, and then use that saved chain on whatever patches you want. 

I'll look into that - could be less hassle than the toggle (or pressure!).

[ehand]

On 9/27/2023 at 9:20 PM, Tom Williams said:

On my PC4-7 (does that come out to negative 3?), I found 200% to be pretty good.

I'm pretty sure I've tried 200%, but I will certainly try again!  Thanks for the info!

[Rich42]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:57 PM, Meta said:

Anyone know how to set up the PC4-7 to have momentary footswitch control of Leslie speed (fast speed only when footswitch held down)?

 

Thanks!

Yes, if the organ program is in a multi, go to the Control section and set your sustain pedal to CC29 with ON value set to 127 and OFF set to 0. Otherwise, edit the organ program itself: go to the Params page, highlight anything in the left column, then hold the ENTER button and press the Variation button. Once it jumps to the speed parameter, highlight the word Variation, then hold the ENTER button and step on your sustain pedal to reassign it. Test it out. If you like it, save it as a new program.

 

[Coker]

Has anyone noticed how setting up Kurzweil boards is much closer to computer programming than other boards?

[Tom Williams]

4 hours ago, Coker said:

Has anyone noticed how setting up Kurzweil boards is much closer to computer programming than other boards?

Yes -- and I consider that a good thing.  VAST can go deeper than I probably ever will go with it -- even deeper-er now that we have explicit DX-style FM (and a superset of that!).

 

Disclaimer: I'm an aging computer guy, been programming since the late 1970s.  That may have biased me towards VAST nerd-vana in the first place.

[Coker]

You’re not alone. When my company was experiencing a shortage of programmers back in the 70s, we successfully recruited from a local music college for computer trainees.  Something about the brain being wired similarly for music and programming.

[Jim Alfredson]

16 hours ago, Coker said:

Has anyone noticed how setting up Kurzweil boards is much closer to computer programming than other boards?

Yes. That’s what I love about it. No esoteric values with no meaning. Filter from 0 to 127?!? What does that MEAN? Nah, in VAST the filter is measured in Hz, just like it should be. LFOs in Hz, envelopes in seconds, etc.

[SMcD]

A few weeks ago, I drove down from Winnipeg to Fargo to pick up the PC4 (88) I'd ordered from Guitar Center, thereby replacing my old PC3LE8. The good folks there were gracious enough to let me set it up in the store and noodle for an hour to see if I liked it enough to make the 4-hour drive home with it.

 

My first impression of the Medeli action was that it was...sluggish. Heavy and a bit slow. But I realized that I have that complaint about a lot of DP's. I started to wonder if it was a "me problem" - lately I've been playing a lot of Hammond and very little piano (in fact, prior to this trip, it had been a full 3 weeks since I'd even touched anything weighted), so I figure my "piano muscles" have started to atrophy. With that in mind, and given how hard the sounds blew me away, I decided to bring it back to Winnipeg with me and put it through its paces. Worst-case scenario, I have until the end of October to haul it back to Fargo for the return.

 

What follows are some of my observations, impressions, and a few questions. Responses to any and all of these are welcome and appreciated.

 

1. By Day 1 at a local jam session, I was getting used to the action, and I think I'm even starting to come around to actually liking it. I found myself working with the weight instead of against it - "swinging the hammers", so to speak. Obviously it's a somewhat-wanting imitation of a real grand piano action, but many of the acoustic uprights I've played are inferior to the Medeli.

 

1a. I'm still not a huge fan of the way the "impact" feels at the bottom of the key-travel. Sometimes when I'm playing fff, it jangles the nerves in my fingers/hands/wrists in a vaguely "funny bone" sort of way. This might have something to do with aftertouch: obviously, including AT necessarily affects the way the keys feel when bottomed out. But I've also noticed that my nerves tend to like the PC4 less when I come back to it after a few days off, so I'm willing to chalk some of this up to "piano muscle atrophy". I'll continue to figure it out over the next few weeks.

 

2. The sounds, man. The SOUNDS. The new pianos are a HUGE improvement over the old Triple Strikes, and this thing has the ballsiest Rhodes patch I've ever heard. Everything else has the kind of rock-solid quality I've come to expect from Kurz, and I'm excited to push it even further once I start downloading some more patches. I'm sure I'll also have fun learning my way around the new FM engine.

 

3. I appreciate that the reduced number of patches cuts back on some of the "bloat" that plagued the PC3 line, but I do find myself frustrated at some of the exclusions. A 100-series Wurly like the old "WhatdISayWurly" patch would've been a nice factory inclusion, for instance. I'll also admit to missing some of the GM sounds. Some of them still have their keymaps present so I just have make custom patches for them (e.g. the super-corny "Orchestral Hit"), but there are some I can't find which I'll presumably have to load in as samples (e.g. the helicopter, which I find to be a crowd-and-band-pleasing way of opening "Fortunate Son" on gigs 😜). If anyone's got any insight into less-annoying ways of fixing these deficits, I'd love to hear it.

 

4. This is a minor grievance since it's quite easy to fix myself, but I question some of the choices on the factory presets. The default Wurly patches all have vibrato mapped to the Mod wheel, whereas I would've preferred it to be tremolo as it was on most of the old PC3 patches. I'm also puzzled as to why so few of the EP patches have distortion mapped to anything on the front panel (which was also fairly standard on the PC3). Seems odd to force me to menu-dive so that I can have a Wurly with slider-adjustable overdrive.

 

5. This is the first keyboard I've had where the support for balanced TRS outputs is advertised. I need to do more experimentation to see how big of a difference it makes, but it's a shame that the cables in the box are so damn short. Especially since the whole point of TRS is to allow for longer cables with less noise, no?

 

6. I wish the bottom of the board was flat. My QuikLok Monolith (which, admittedly, is pretty beat-up and rickety) is just too narrow for me to fit both of the PC4's endcaps on it, so it's a nightmare getting it to lie on the stand without wobbling. Can anyone recommend a stand that can keep it stable?

 

7. Alright, I know that this problem isn't limited to the PC4, and I know that mentioning it may revive a long-standing war on this forum BUT HAVING SAID THAT: I wish there were more mono patches. There are only two dedicated mono pianos, both of which are slightly less detailed than their stereo counterparts; and most of the non-piano sounds seem to be designed for stereo. It always annoyed me that the synth patches on the PC3LE8 seemed too damn quiet, and having that same problem with the PC4 is making me wonder if it's due to phase cancellation from running in mono. I could always use the old "run the right channel only" trick, but that just trades phase cancellation on some patches for having "only half the sound" on others. Those of you running your PC4's in mono, what's your experience been?

 

 

Overall, I'm enjoying the board a lot, but I'm hoping to learn to enjoy it even more over the coming weeks. At its price point, it might be the best combination of piano & synth available.

[AnotherScott]

27 minutes ago, SMcD said:

7. Alright, I know that this problem isn't limited to the PC4, and I know that mentioning it may revive a long-standing war on this forum BUT HAVING SAID THAT: I wish there were more mono patches. There are only two dedicated mono pianos, both of which are slightly less detailed than their stereo counterparts; and most of the non-piano sounds seem to be designed for stereo. 

 

In general, in my experience, most sounds on ALL boards are mono, only the effects are stereo. The exceptions are acoustic sounds that were sampled in stereo... typically acoustic piano and "ensemble" orchestral sounds.

[Jim Alfredson]

58 minutes ago, SMcD said:

4. This is a minor grievance since it's quite easy to fix myself, but I question some of the choices on the factory presets. The default Wurly patches all have vibrato mapped to the Mod wheel, whereas I would've preferred it to be tremolo as it was on most of the old PC3 patches. I'm also puzzled as to why so few of the EP patches have distortion mapped to anything on the front panel (which was also fairly standard on the PC3). Seems odd to force me to menu-dive so that I can have a Wurly with slider-adjustable overdrive.

David Weiser was not happy about the decision, made by someone at Kurzweil, to make all the factory patches have vibrato on the modwheel. It's a totally arbitrary decision and I agree it's silly. Thankfully it's easy to remedy with some basic programming.

[Dave Osoff]

Hello all,

I'm looking at potentially buying a PC4-7.  Who can chime in about the keybed/action?  I'm working my way through the 700+ comments on this thread 😉

I'm reading "76-note semi-weighted hammer action keybed with velocity-sensitive keys and aftertouch".  The pictures I'm looking at online look like piano style/waterfall keys. I have a Nord Stage 3 compact, MAG/UHL organs and a DMC-122 so I'm very familiar with those actions. The last Kurzweil I owned was way back in the days of PC2/PC2x and to be honest I don't remember them very well.  Any info / opinions / comparisons are appreciated.    

[AnotherScott]

The keys are piano-shaped, not waterfall shaped. But they don't have the weighted feel of hammer action keys, so in that respect, closer in feel to the PC2 than the PC2X. While I'd still prefer a hammer action for playing piano, the PC4-7's actions is not bad at all for piano, as semi-weighted actions go... in fact, I think it's one of the better ones. OTOH, while it's better for organ than hammer actions are, it doesn't feel as nice for organ as some other semi-weighteds do. I guess I'd say it's one of the better "compromise" actions, as everything is at least pretty decently playable from it, if if it's unlikely to be your first choice for a given task. It might be my first choice, or close to it, for an action that has to kind of work for everything, though. At least among boards that are, themselves, pretty lightweight.

[Dave Osoff]

Thanks, That helps a lot.  I remember having quite a few problems with the PC2 back then with mechanical issues, build quality which is why I abandoned Kurzweil for so long...  Based on what I'm reading on this thread, it seems most folks are pretty happy with the PC4, at least as far as mid-range keyboards go.  Would you say the durability / build quality is much improved with the PC4 over older models?  I know some folks on this forum also speak very highly of the PC3.

 

[pawelsz]

19 hours ago, SMcD said:

2. The sounds, man. The SOUNDS. The new pianos are a HUGE improvement over the old Triple Strikes, and this thing has the ballsiest Rhodes patch I've ever heard. Everything else has the kind of rock-solid quality I've come to expect from Kurz, and I'm excited to push it even further once I start downloading some more patches. I'm sure I'll also have fun learning my way around the new FM engine.

 

You need Purgatory Creek Soundware sounds released for Forte, at least MkII Rhodes which is free. All their sounds are well made. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

11 hours ago, Dave Osoff said:

...  Would you say the durability / build quality is much improved with the PC4 over older models?  I know some folks on this forum also speak very highly of the PC3.

 

It's a light plastic build vs the solid metal build of the PC3 series. If you wanted that build quality, the K2700 still has it (but doesn't have a 76 version).