Kurzweil PC4

[Coker]

Do you suppose these can be set to whatever color you want, tailoring them to mean something in particular to you?

[Synthaholic]

What again is the distinction between a Pink controller button and a Blue one? I've searched the .pdf of both the Getting Started Guide and the PC4 Musician's Guide for the words 'Pink' and 'Blue' and 'Buttons' and I can't find any explanation for the two colors.

I think we've stumbled onto a theological mystery. Presumably the lights have four states -- off, blue, magenta (pink) and red. In single-voice mode they indicate button on-off status. In multi mode they sometimes seem to indicate layer status. But when I set up a KB3 thingy in multi mode, all 9 button lights decided to indicate whether the Leslie is slow or fast. (Conversely, or perhaps perversely, they also ceased to indicate any KB3 patch data.)

 

It's very odd that there is no mention in the guides. And I've also had Leslie triggering issues, where sometimes it takes two pedal presses to turn it on and off (set to Toggle) and sometimes it only takes one. I've been trying to nail down the exact behavior. Also having a bug with songs stopping playback when exiting Song Mode to either Program or Multi.

[3rdAct]

I did a little research to try to find a gig bag for my PC4-7 (though the manufacturers" websites often make it impossible to determine the inner dimensions, outer dimensions and/or weight of their cases!).

 

I ended up finding and buying the Kaces 'Luxe Series Keyboard Bag, 61/76 Key' (KB4715). It cost me only a little over $100.

 

KB4715

 

The case's interior dimensions are listed as: 47" x 15" x 5.5'

The PC4-7 is listed as 46.54â³ x 14.07â³ x 4.24â³

 

I just received the case and it"s a really nice fit for the keyboard. The interior straps are not ideally placed for the PC4-7. The one on the right works well, but the one on the left lays across the control section (with the sliders).

 

The case looks pretty nice and has some foam padding for minor bumps. There is roughly an extra inch in height and I might put some extra foam on top of the keyboard for added protection of the controls. I weighed the case and it came in at only about 4.5 lbs.

 

Looks like it"ll work out well!

[Synthaholic]

Does anyone else leave the white plastic on their Kurzweil piano-style sustain pedal? http://i.imgur.com/4i6Ckte.gif

[AnotherScott]

Thanks Scott. I just downloaded and briefly looked at the Kurzweil Creator manual, and it includes auto sampler functionality. I checked out SampleRobot - definitely pricier; not sure if it's better but no support for any Kurzweil formats on output that I could find...

Good point... If you used SampleRobot to create a soundfont, you still might want the Kurzweil Creator to load that Soundfont into the PC4, so might as well just use Kurzweil Creator to begin with! Unless SampleRobot has features that either make it faster/easier to do the sampling, or provides better results. They also have a free demo, IIRC.

 

Yeah, I thought of using them both as well... I'll probably opt for Kurzweil Creator, see how working with it is, hopefully it is good enough.

Did you ever get around to trying Kurzweil Creator?

 

There's a Black Friday 50% off special on it at the moment (which they're extended through tomorrow), making it $39.95

[hipogrito]

Hi,

 

The Switch buttons LED colors go as this:

 

If the button has a MUTE ZONE functionality, then the ON state is RED+BLUE (pink/purple). If you are using the SOLO functionality then you'll get RED

If the button has any other functionality, then the ON state is blue.

Off is always Off.

 

In short, if you see pink it means that you are controlling the Zone Mutes. If you see Blue it means that you have any other MIDI CC/Destination in there.

 

Regards,

Fran

[Tom Williams]

Thanks, Fran. That clarifies a lot.

 

There's an exception though: I have a multi that switches KB3 presets (10 zones all on MIDI channel 1), and when i press the Toggle Leslie Speed pedal, all the buttons go blue for fast and dark for slow. They still do their KB3 functions -- but the colors are only changed by the Leslie speed. It's a weird one.

[jarrell]

Thanks Scott. I just downloaded and briefly looked at the Kurzweil Creator manual, and it includes auto sampler functionality. I checked out SampleRobot - definitely pricier; not sure if it's better but no support for any Kurzweil formats on output that I could find...

Good point... If you used SampleRobot to create a soundfont, you still might want the Kurzweil Creator to load that Soundfont into the PC4, so might as well just use Kurzweil Creator to begin with! Unless SampleRobot has features that either make it faster/easier to do the sampling, or provides better results. They also have a free demo, IIRC.

 

Yeah, I thought of using them both as well... I'll probably opt for Kurzweil Creator, see how working with it is, hopefully it is good enough.

Did you ever get around to trying Kurzweil Creator?

 

There's a Black Friday 50% off special on it at the moment (which they're extended through tomorrow), making it $39.95

 

Sorry for the late reply... I did get Kurzweil Creator, but haven't really used it; got off onto other things. My problem was finding good quality bass sounds; in particular I had a Kurzweil bass CDROM, but I couldn't access it as it was in proprietary Kurzweil format (designed to be read by CDROM drives attached directly to a Kurzweil via SCSI). I started hacking a program to read it (there was source code available, just not for MacOS), but it was painful going as apparently the disc format was different. Anyway, long story short, I decided to spend my time on music instead of software development at least for now :-)

[Synthaholic]

Wow, when you combine all of those Ballpark Stops into a Multi it makes for a nice Ballpark Organ. Obvious, I know, but I was surprised there weren't already compiled Multis for the Ballpark. Diapason, Flutes, etc. in the factory Multis.

 

I've been looking for a decent church-like organ to play some Christmas carols with. There aren't many selections to choose from. Soft Stops (205) isn't bad. I was looking for something closer to the Alesis Program 'Communion', which is near-perfect for them (and also 'Here Comes The Bride'). Especially 'Joy To The World'.

[Synthaholic]

After an exhaustive search, I can find no Soprano Saxophones in the PC4-7. Now how am I going to play my Kenny G songs?!?

[Stokely]

Grr, I'm tentatively in the club but Guitar Center keeps moving the dates on me (presumably, the dates are moving on them from Kurzweil). They gave me a discount when I purchased, so I want to endure, but it's getting hard to wait! I have my new Omega Pro stand to put it on!

[Tom Williams]

After an exhaustive search, I can find no Soprano Saxophones in the PC4-7.

That settles it -- mine's going back. A man has to have standards, you know.

[Tom Williams]

Wow, when you combine all of those Ballpark Stops into a Multi it makes for a nice Ballpark Organ. Obvious, I know, but I was surprised there weren't already compiled Multis for the Ballpark. Diapason, Flutes, etc. in the factory Multis.

 

I've been looking for a decent church-like organ to play some Christmas carols with. There aren't many selections to choose from. Soft Stops (205) isn't bad. I was looking for something closer to the Alesis Program 'Communion', which is near-perfect for them (and also 'Here Comes The Bride'). Especially 'Joy To The World'.

Although it has all the nice individual stops from the PC3, the PC4 has an amazingly small selection of Multis. (The former had some nicely designed pipe organ setups.) You've reminded me that I want to replicate my 16-stop PC3 pipe organ.

 

By the way, I'm heartbroken to report that, unlike on the PC3, I cannot use a remote MIDI keyboard on a single channel to drive multiple layers (multiple stops). Rephrasing that a bit, a single channel external keyboard can only drive one layer at a time on a PC4. (I'm really hoping someone shows me I'm wrong about this.)

[Mighty Motif Max]

...

 

By the way, I'm heartbroken to report that, unlike on the PC3, I cannot use a remote MIDI keyboard on a single channel to drive multiple layers (multiple stops). Rephrasing that a bit, a single channel external keyboard can only drive one layer at a time on a PC4. (I'm really hoping someone shows me I'm wrong about this.)

I'm trying to remember whether I had successfully gotten that to work earlier in the year when I was doing the two-way MX61 and PC4 midi configuration. Have you tried adjusting the input source to MIDI only, then setting the midi input channel (or whatever it's called - I'm 600 miles from my PC4 right now) to your single-zone controller's channel? I feel like something along that line is what I had working, but again I can't remember 100% whether I got that working or not. I had the PC4 and MX-61 controlling each others sounds in various multis as well as their own, but I don't remember whether I ever used more than one PC4 sound from the MX or not.

[bfields]

By the way, I'm heartbroken to report that, unlike on the PC3, I cannot use a remote MIDI keyboard on a single channel to drive multiple layers (multiple stops). Rephrasing that a bit, a single channel external keyboard can only drive one layer at a time on a PC4. (I'm really hoping someone shows me I'm wrong about this.)

 

I'm pretty sure there are multiple ways to do that.

 

E.g. in multi mode, you can set "input channel" (on the "main" screen) to the channel used by the external keyboard. You can do that for multiple zones, and then the external keyboard will play all those zones.

[Stokely]

Got a question about the KB3 engine, specifically the Leslie. I have a pc361 (retired due to issues) and am pretty familiar with that iteration of the KB3...I'm not sure if the PC4 has seen changes to it in quality or fx.

 

Anyway, my question is for anyone that has compared the Lester K pedal leslie to the onboard. I've been considering trying out this pedal but only if it's at least a slight improvement. I have B-3X on an ipad but am wanting quite simply to not rely on it. I play rock and like a bit (to a lot) of overdrive. From what I remember, the overdrive was not a strong point of the built-in KB3. If the pedal is not an improvement, that's great too as simple is always great!

 

I see the extra outputs of the PC4 to be a big plus, as then potentially I'll just have KB3 go to those outputs and don't have to bypass the pedal constantly (and of course can have multiple sounds playing from the PC4).

 

 

2nd question: How useful is the ribbon controller, and does it fit properly on the 88-key PC4? I've got some gig money burning a hole in my paypal and might want to spend it before my wife gets wind of it I'm kind of in "toy mode", it being Christmas...also looked at a vocoder pedal!

[Synthaholic]

I just found this, which is a pretty decent Pipe Organ converted from the PC3. There's a link to download the Programs/Multis in the description.

 

[Delaware Dave]

This internal leslie sim sounds half decent.....

 

[Stokely]

I'm asking Guitar Center if I can "swap out" the PC4 for something else (Hammond sk pro) if they can give me a discount as they did for the PC4. The PC4 is still backordered and I've been given three different dates, nope nope and nope. I have several big gigs coming up and I really hoped to have this in hand almost a month ago, at this rate I have no confidence that this won't continue for months.

 

The Hammond checks a lot of boxes for me, albeit some different ones than the PC4. The monosynth will actually be handy for me, certainly I wish it was a polysynth.

[Delaware Dave]

There is a definite improvement in the leslie of the PC4 over the PC3.......

 

[Stokely]

That definitely sounds pretty good, I like that overdrive sound. From past experience with my pc361 (albeit with piano but it should be the same deal) I know I can midi up the organ to be played from my MODX if I decide to omit the Ipad or it glitches out on me again. Gah, I'm just frustrated from this backorder stuff and bad dates (like Indy almost ate) I've been given.

[AnotherScott]

This internal leslie sim sounds half decent.....

Yes, that's one of the better Kurz Leslie sim demos I've heard.

 

The Hammond checks a lot of boxes for me, albeit some different ones than the PC4. The monosynth will actually be handy for me, certainly I wish it was a polysynth.

and remember, the Hammond does still have a polysynth in it, except (a) the waveforms are all samples, and (b) they don't have front panel knob/slider control, editing is through the on-screen menus. I've had the idea of attaching a small sysex/NRPN programmable controller to provide real-time access to those "poly synth" editing controls as well. Not that I really need that, I just think it would be cool to be able to do it. ;-)

[AnotherScott]

As you said, the idea is to assign several parameters all to that foot pedal -- pitch changes, filter cutoff, OSC levels, pan, LFO speeds, FX wet/dry or time or feedback, etc.

 

On the Kronos, its "mod matrix" is called AMS, and most parameters have a freely assignable AMS source. For example, on OSC level, you choose select your AMS source (say footpedal) and its intensity (say -85). Select timbre2, assign its filter cutoff to footpedal, with a positive intensity. Select timbre3 filter cutoff assigned to footpedal also, but use a negative intensity. And so on.

 

Instant "SuperPedal."

It's the idea that you can take a single control (let's say foot controller, since that's something the Nord, Yamaha, Kronos, and Kurz all have) and have it do some operation (open a filter on one or more sounds, fade some other sounds in and out, move some drawbars, alter an effect, whatever) then have that same control simultaneously do another such operation, and then another, in order to end up with a single control that does all these things simultaneously.

 

Happily, the answer is yes, from probably the K2000 on up. The reason is that (my wording, not official) most synthesizer architectures push their modulation, but VAST pulls it. Let me elaborate.

 

With VAST, every modulation destination -- every filter, envelope, LFO, oscillator pitch, volume, DSP sound modulation, and effects parameter -- can "choose" its own modulation source. Most of these modulation destinations can also choose offset and multiplier factors -- they can decide when to pay attention to the modulation source, and how much attention to pay to it.

 

For example, on a guitar patch I tie envelope sustain level and then overdrive level to the mod wheel; then I tie overall volume (output from the overdrive effect) inversely to the mod wheel, so volume remains more or less constant while the fuzz goes up. I can take it further if I want: I can have a second layer a couple of octaves up, simulating speaker-to-string feedback, also be activated by the mod wheel after it gets 2/3 of the way up. At the same time, perhaps I pull back the chorus effect a little bit to increase a feeling of presence. etc.

 

...and I have only used one modulation control. I still have 9 sliders, two CC pedals, and at least 5 switches available, each one of which can control between one and ALL the parameters of the program.

I think a distinction here between what the Kurzweil can do here (in terms of this "Yamaha Superknob" type of functionality) compared to what Kronos can do is that, while Kronos can have the mod control simultaneously parameter X on timbre 1 and parameter Y on timbre 2, you can't have it perform multiple operations on the SAME timbre within a Combi, is that right? That is, compared to how the Kurz mod wheel (or other continuous control) can perform multiple simultaneouls tweaks on the same Program (or Yamaha's Superknob performing multiple simultaneous operations on the sounds in a single Part, or Nord's morph also being able to perform multiple simultaneous modifications on the same sound), yes?

[Stokely]

This internal leslie sim sounds half decent.....

Yes, that's one of the better Kurz Leslie sim demos I've heard.

 

The Hammond checks a lot of boxes for me, albeit some different ones than the PC4. The monosynth will actually be handy for me, certainly I wish it was a polysynth.

and remember, the Hammond does still have a polysynth in it, except (a) the waveforms are all samples, and (b) they don't have front panel knob/slider control, editing is through the on-screen menus. I've had the idea of attaching a small sysex/NRPN programmable controller to provide real-time access to those "poly synth" editing controls as well. Not that I really need that, I just think it would be cool to be able to do it. ;-)

 

 

There wouldn't be any filters or envelopes (other than those sampled), correct?

 

There wasn't much in that regard on my Electro either and as long as I had another keyboard present for polysynth stuff it wasn't a biggie. I used the strings and other ensemble parts on the Electro (and my VR700 for that matter) with success.

 

Still debating if I want to try for "almost all" the boxes (nord stage 3)--most of the boxes (something like the Hammond) or back off a bit and go with say a Mojo 61 that would be a great complement for an all-rounder.

I'll see what the GC rep says, I floated the idea of cancelling the order if they could offer a deal on something else. I'm trying to be patient but I dislike being told target dates three times only to find after I contacted them that "now we are seeing X". If the damn date is "I don't know" then tell me that, don't give me concrete dates and then "whoops" when I contact you.

[AnotherScott]

The Hammond checks a lot of boxes for me, albeit some different ones than the PC4. The monosynth will actually be handy for me, certainly I wish it was a polysynth.

and remember, the Hammond does still have a polysynth in it, except (a) the waveforms are all samples, and (b) they don't have front panel knob/slider control, editing is through the on-screen menus. I've had the idea of attaching a small sysex/NRPN programmable controller to provide real-time access to those "poly synth" editing controls as well. Not that I really need that, I just think it would be cool to be able to do it. ;-)

 

There wouldn't be any filters or envelopes (other than those sampled), correct?

Incorrect... full filter and envelope controls are available for the sampled sounds. And the selectable samples include, not just full instruments (strings, horns, guitars, pianos, whatever), but also waveforms (saw, square, assorted pulse). So it can operate as a "synthesizer" on the sampled waves, as all the workstation-style boards from Kurzweil, Roland, Yamaha, and Korg can. But there are no non-sampled waves (except in the mono section) so there are certain synthy behaviors you won't get. In this respect, it is similar to, for example, Roland Juno DS, Korg Kross/Krome, Yamaha MOXF. Which is still plenty flexible.

[Stokely]

That's actually pretty cool, I didn't realize that. Of course a lot depends on what samples are available, but I had no idea you could manipulate them to that degree. I'm sure there are "synth things" you might not be able to do (sync, pwm etc) but just being able to adjust a filter or adsr is pretty huge in a live cover situation IMO...

[Tom Williams]

Nice demo DD -- I also find the PC3/4 leslie quite adequate. One question though -- where did you get a left-handed PC4? Several of my southpaw friends have asked if one was available.

[3rdAct]

I'm trying to be patient but I dislike being told target dates three times only to find after I contacted them that "now we are seeing X". If the damn date is "I don't know" then tell me that, don't give me concrete dates and then "whoops" when I contact you.

I experienced exactly the same situation with my PC4, and then all of a sudden it was in, a few weeks earlier than the latest date they had given me. Apparently the dates are given to GC by Kurzweil. The thing that kept me holding on, besides liking this keyboard, was that I was told that I was on the list for one of the units in the next scheduled shipment, not on some extended waiting list.

[Stokely]

Yeah, I'll hold fast, it's not a critical "need" but I did have some important gigs (including one audition that could lead to some great gigs) coming up that I was hoping to use it on.

 

The Hammond has caught my eye and might eventually be the 2nd keyboard in my rig instead of the MODX, paired with the PC4 (which could do certain gigs by itself also). Scott's info about having some ensemble flexibility is quite interesting to me. As with many of you surely, I go round and round trying to plan the perfect rig and sometimes end up back where I started

[Delaware Dave]

where did you get a left-handed PC4?

 

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