Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[cphollis]

If anyone would like to take on a great project for our community, consider distilling the 1000+ random messages on this thread to a short FAQ. Obviously, there's a lot of interest from this crowd.

[theGman]

^^^ I imagine when this new shipment's future owners get their sweaty hands on their new SS3s, after a week or two of playing around, we're going to have one heck of a new thread or two on tweaking tips for the amp.

 

I can't wait to see the first rotary mount for it...you KNOW someone is going to do it. Then Aspen will come out in 2016 with his own LeSS3lie cabinet.

[Aspen]

.... I tried putting it right on the floor leaning up against the back wall.

...

 

You know that gives you a mostly unnaturally emphasized mid-low "bass" sound, right ? I mean lots of guitar amps aren't neutral, low in distortion or full range AT ALL, that's a given from the past. But aside from being able to create a sound field that's pleasing (like anything from a Bose L's to a Leslie Box), which of course is a fine art, I think it's interesting to note that putting the sound you create on a decent, passable stereo producing (moderately big) PA system has become part of the (electronic) musical stage game since the 80s. Something to think about is that apparently people search for a way to use synth sounds that have a stereo image that doesn't work well that standard way, and come up more with the idea of low distortion.

 

T.

 

Theo, as a guitarist from my 9th birthday, a guy who started selling guitar amps right out of HS as the first manager of a little upstart pro guitar shop in Hollywood called The Guitar Center (1967) and as a man lucky enough to start and keep my own company (Groove Tubes) for over 30 years customizing, designing and building guitar amps, and finally as the author of the Tube Amp Book w/ over 140,000 copies sold...I think I can say with some authority that the guitar amp is AT LEAST a 50% partner in PRODUCING the sounds guitarist love. There is no one "perfect" amp, there are 100's of them! That's because, much like guitars, amps (a product of their design, their tubes, their speakers and their cab), ALL sound different...and that's a GOOD thing. There are LOTS of good choices.

 

However, the same can NOT be said for keyboard amp solutions. I believe that is because modern keyboards have evolved into the "complete package". They record best, DIRECT!

And, when played live, they require crystal clear REPRODUCTION (not to be influenced by some colored PRODUCTION, or for that matter an amp that distorts in ANY way.

 

So, IMHO, the target for a KB amp designer is to AVOID distortion. But there are SO many types of distortion to avoid. The obvious ones are harmonic distortion (THD), intermodulation distortion (LF notes distorting HF notes), dynamic distortion (measured in slew rate or transient response), and just plain poor frequency response, usually due to cheap speakers and especially (uug) cheap Pizeo tweeters.

 

Unfortunately, most the lower price point (under $1K) KB amps have way too much of these above mentioned "audio sins, they just sound bad. Good sound is expensive. Which is why many KB players are gravitating to powered PA cabs as they are designed to be more "accurate" sonically speaking (and hence more expensive too!)

 

But there is another type of distortion, perhaps the worse one of all for a modern keyboard player playing live; I call it "image" distortion.

 

One big reason why modern keyboards record so well direct is that 99% of them are STEREO, so they are ready made for stereo recording! Their carefully sculpted "models" of that Hammond/Leslie or that 73 Rhodes, or even that 9' grand are so realistic because the heavily rely on the designers use of stereo imaging to recreate that "being there" classic sound.

 

However 99% of the KB amps today are mono, or else players struggle lugging around a pair of powered PA cabs to try and produce that stereo image...which can be worse than mono unless YOU are standing in the "sweet spot" (leaving the rest of the room to suffer in the "sour spot").

 

IMHO, it is the mono interpretation of a stereo event, or the vain attempt of a traditional stereo PA cab approach, that causes this "image distortion", and is at the core of such widespread discontent and controversy regarding keyboard amplification in live venues today.

 

Guitar players have perfected their amps, long ago, and there are literally DOZENS that are generally agreed to sound great. But can the same be said for modern keyboard amps?

 

Recording guitar amps is a constant battle to make it sound as good as it does in the club. But it's the other way around for a KB Player...where it has ALWAYS been impossible to get your live sound anywhere NEAR as good sounding as your recordings!

 

Keyboard amplification, as I found it when my partner and I invented CPS, was BROKEN...period.

 

And the simple reason is this; Mono distorts (read; DESTROYS) Stereo...it's just physics.

 

Once you hear you keys in stereo, mono sucks. I call that "image distortion", and no matter how low you amp and speaker may be in all the other conventional distortion measurments, if you have "image distortion" you will never be at peace.

 

And THAT Theo, is WHY everyone here who has heard a CPS system, or those who are using the newest Center Point Stereo Spacestation v.3 amp (which is quite sonically evolved over the previous 2 versions), is telling you "this is different, you have to hear it", and that the old rules about speaker placement do not necessarily apply....like leaning it back against a wall.

 

But until you hear it, well it's going to be hard to explain (but I've done my best!).

[jimkost2002]

Aspen, you've explained it perfectly!!!!!

You've lived it fom the design end....I've lived it from the player's end!

I've used everything from $40,000 boutique guitar amps, Pre-CBS Fender Twins, "keyboard amps", going direct and Powered PA Speakers---both stereo and mono configurations.....

Can't wait for my SS v3!!!!!

[Al Quinn]

Great explanation Aspen! Through the years I've tried, purchased, and sold many speaker / amp combinations, and agree with what you've said. It's been an expensive adventure. Although years ago I was dissatisfied with an earlier version of the SS and returned it, I'll likely check out the new version as the reviews are so positive.

[Theo Verelst]

I've listened to a number of what I considered "normal" live PA systems since, say, the 80s. When well adjusted, and of course the right non-trivial effects in place, I found them largely ok to listen to, which at the moment isn't always the case. To me it seems that the "new" sound people do not respect, nor learn, the mastering of the difficulties of composing and using a decent (moderately big) PA system. Also, the keyboard/synthesizer programmer persons that sit behind their IMO rather limited monitoring (what happens to edges of the sound in the mid-frequency range on a 2-way system, seriously ?) and make the "perfect" whatever patch aren't really getting anywhere I care about.

 

Projecting or reproducing a sound in preferably a nice "live" listening space is an interesting subject, but even explaining the limitations of digital is already a great difficulty and appears to require university breeding at the moment to even explain. I like guitar amp sounds, am aware of various design criteria (which of course includes some sort of ear-damage control which preferably works really good), and wholeheartedly agree they're not the same thing you want from a keyboard amp. The latter is bound to end up big, preferably more than 2 way, more power than a guitar amp, and with controlled radiation patterns, which is the hardest in the high frequencies, hard in the mid range, and increasingly easier in the low frequency ranges. Of course you don't need the lowest frequencies per se for a keyboard rig, but if you can get close to full range it helps prevent a lot of transient errors.

 

Low distortion I have been a fan of since I build my own audio stuff as a teenager, so I am very aware of how much "wrong energy" can easily bounce of every wall in a listener space, making even high-end HiFi distortion figures certainly not enough for auditive neutrality, except maybe for certain specific ranges of sounds/effects. A fact I think has been a drive in the better PA system design and led to the use of all kinds of (pro) effects in live sound reinforcement.

 

I'm all for a lightweight, nice sounding keyboard solution, even though I have my doubts about the transverse wave generation being the exact solution to the most prevalent problems, it's a fun idea I recall from having a big tube ("valve") radio with pretty nice FM sound to it in the early 80s that could do that. I think I understand some of the issues, and just like the Bose Direct/Reflecting system, I'm sure it has it's merits.

 

Myself, I'm more interested in getting a Lexicon and a (bigger but not necessarily heavy) full range sound system to agree with each-other, some other interesting DSP and the (digital) instruments and the listening space to preferably get for instance a cinema sound that can even properly amplify a Leslie or your Spacestation for a moderately large audience, which is possible, and a true challenge !

 

T.

[mak1457]

Has Keyboard magazine published their review yet?

[Aspen]

Has Keyboard magazine published their review yet?

Has Keyboard magazine published their review yet?

 

They haven't yet asked me for a test unit, not that I have any to spare right now (The Teamsters are still sitting on my shipment and we can't get it released...I am getting ready to storm those docks myself and liberate my speakers!)

[DanL]

Used my SS3 in what I thought would be the most volatile situation last night- the weekly blues jam. It's a really live room, wood floor, high ceiling. They use a thick carpet for the band area but it's still easy for things to get out of control with a bunch of players on stage at once. With my K10, aimed right at me, I still had the sound guys telling me I'm too loud. With the SS3, and having been asked to turn down on several occasions with my other bands, I knew it was coming. Add in it's a tight space and the SS3 was about 2' from me, I was prepared for the worst. I set it on the floor and leaned it against the wall, off to my left but angled a bit towards me. There is a set of double doors to my right and one of them was open so it gave a place for the side speaker to reflect off of.

 

The sound guys loved it. They said the amp sounded perfect, the volume was perfect, and they couldn't be happier! All the players commented on how good it sounded.

 

Another guy said he owns one of the older ones and uses if for a PA, on a pole, with a sub for a duo he's in.

 

I've done just about every gig/jam scenario with the SS3 now, from large stages and big rooms to tight spaces and small rooms, and it's handled every one of them very well. In the next few weeks I'll do a couple of my remaining venues I haven't used it on. Both are rooms I normally use IEM's on, but I'm going to try the SS3 on them.

[DulceLabs.com]

It sounds like the SS does a very good job of filling the venue.

 

Do all tones sound great through it or is it better at some than others?

[Raymb1]

Hi Aspen. Is the shipment off-shore or on-shore? Ray

[ITGITC]

I've done just about every gig/jam scenario with the SS3 now, from large stages and big rooms to tight spaces and small rooms, and it's handled every one of them very well.

 

Wow.

 

I'd like to hear it.

 

It would be nice to be able to say, "All keyboard amps pretty much suck EXCEPT for..."

 

And I'm pretty sure that's Aspen's goal too.

 

Best of luck, Aspen.

 

 

[hardware]

What's up with the Teamsters..?

 

[rickzjamm]

Aspen,

What a class act you are, great job explaining the SS V.3 with such clarity.

I've ordered mine & looking forward to breaking it in. As the saying goes... for those who understand no explanation is needed & for those who don't no explanation will do.

[mak1457]

I've lived 33+ years w/o a SS, so I'm sure I'll live another few days w/o it.

[theGman]

This is really interesting; a new form of technology is awaiting many of us within a month or so. Doesn't happen very often.

 

[HammondDave]

I am looking forward to hearing this magic 8" speaker battle Marshalls and Twins.

[spazzkey]

I have been using my Acoustic Image ten2 for almost 5 years now!! and I love it - 28 lbs and plenty of power for those Marshalls and Twins - bring 'em on!!

 

And I've been following this thread for a while now...

 

So I just got a pre-NAMM (Not Available, Maybe in May?) cold call from Joe at Sweetwater - the only thing I'd ever purchased there was an F7 pedal a couple of years back - through Joe after he'd been on the job for a month - so now he's checking in with me and I ask about the space station - he's never heard of it - but he pulls all the relevant info and I go for it - on the list for February as the two January shipments are spoken for... should be interesting to see how it compares to the ten2...

[cphollis]

Another gig with the SSv3. This place had a stage that was designed for a singer duo, but -- yes -- we crammed five pieces (two guitars, keys, drums, bass) in like an evil game of Tetris.

 

No room for proper placement of my keyboard amp -- it sat immediately next to the right side of my throne, tilted up. I was expecting a miserable night, but the beauty came through. Nice rich sound everywhere, including my ears.

 

Couldn't have done that with anything else, I think.

[Aspen]

Hi Aspen. Is the shipment off-shore or on-shore? Ray

 

Hi All, I wish I had some better news, but instead I feel like I'm a CNN reporter trapped in a bad dream progressing into a nightmare.

 

Here's what happen this WEEK; the ship docked and the container was off loaded. So far good, right? nOoops, not so fast./...now we are squarely in the hands of the Teamsters union...and they are hungry for attention.

 

However, our container has not been assigned a "clearance" warehouse (yet). And my daily check revealed absolutely no progress. I am still calling daily, waiting for the next chapter, seemingly powerless against the Teamsters union ":slow down". This is all creating a massive backlog. Usually, this Jan 2 arrival would be in my hands 2-3 days max.

 

Thursday my agent (who is also seemingly powerless in this story) "reminded" me that during this union action slowdown clearance times are now running 10-14 days. To which I reminded him it HAS been 14 days!

 

I know you are all going to be disappointed, and nobody understands that more than me. I have already prepaid everything months ago and I can not get paid until I can deliver...I am not amused.

 

To make matters worse, believing I wold have extra units in hand weeks ago, I have promised several Spacestations to industry friends for NAMM demonstrations, and show set up begin Monday. What do I tell them?

 

Fortunately, I have a few local pals that own the v.3, and this weekend I am going to start making calls to them (read; begging) hoping they will loan me theirs for NAMM week so I can meet my obligations.

 

So cross your fingers that I get this shipment on Monday. If not, then I will have to go with plan B...and I hate borrowing gear!

 

Believe me if I have any good news you'all be the first to hear it. And I am truly sorry any inconvenience these delays have caused, but I believe you deserve the truth.

 

[Aspen]

Been keeping up with the LA/LB port "talks", here's the latest, the longshoremen are protesting proposed "night shifts" to clear up the backlog created by the truckers who just recently settled THEIR strike...that created the backlog:

 

http://www.americanshipper.com/Main/News/ILWU_to_protest_restricted_night_shift_at_Port_of_59233.aspx?taxonomy=Labor

[HammondDave]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the docks and unions. There was a time in America when we used to manufacture our products here at home. With all these products being built in China the chances of these delays are increased.

 

It's tough for small businesses to make it. Outsourcing can save money so that the small guy can produce a product that can compete in price with the musical conglomerates. But it can also come back and bite you in the ass.

 

I am sure that your friends here in the Keyboard community understand what you are going through and will be patient.

 

 

[16251]

This all sounds like the second season of The Wire. Just get McNulty on the case. He'll hook you up.

[DanL]

I am looking forward to hearing this magic 8" speaker battle Marshalls and Twins.

 

It'll definitely hold it's own. It might not win the battle but it'll put up a good fight! It really depends on how loud they are playing though. One gig on a big stage I had my guitar player with a 2x12 Fender Bassman amp that he's worked up for guitar closer to me than the SS3 was, and I could hear it fine.

[Dave Bryce]

Guys -

 

I appreciate Aspen keeping us all up to date on what's happening with the shipment - it's really cool to have access to first hand info - but please avoid any comments on current affairs/things that would take this thread in a political direction.

 

Thanks!

 

dB

[Aspen]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the docks and unions. There was a time in America when we used to manufacture our products here at home. With all these products being built in China the chances of these delays are increased.

 

It's tough for small businesses to make it. Outsourcing can save money so that the small guy can produce a product that can compete in price with the musical conglomerates. But it can also come back and bite you in the ass.

 

I am sure that your friends here in the Keyboard community understand what you are going through and will be patient.

 

 

I hear you Dave. It would be great if I could build 100% of the Spacestation here at home and not have to deal with freight delays, bills and importation nightmares like this one now. However, I am proud that my current SS v.3 is about 50% Made in USA; the 2 primary coax drivers are made by Eminence, in Eminence Kentucky. These are then shipped to their cabinet shop in Dongguan (near Hong Kong) where the v.3 is assembled with it's locally sourced electronics.

 

I consider this a step in the right direction. My first two CPS Spacestations were 100% Chinese made, and although my cost was 40% lower, I felt I needed to improve the sound. If I have learned anything after nearly 50 in this business...sound matters! The speakers are biggest part of my BOM (Bill of Materials), so I "splurged" on speakers, and we ship them half way around the world and back! But I think it's worth it.

 

The great folks at Eminence speakers partnered with me and custom made my 8" coax for the v.3, and the USA made APT driver is one of their standard mid drivers. Eminence Speaker is a class act top to bottom...I've used their speakers for 30+ Years, and they also offer great value.

 

Frankly spoken guys, without them as my vendor partner in this late life adventure, and Sweetwater Sound as my retail partner (another great American success story!), there is NO WAY the v.3 would be on the market today, much less have garnered 100,000+ views and 1,000 replies here on this wonderful website. These 2 partners will allow me to ramp up production to meet the demand, and also allow me to focus on new designs...which is what I really enjoy doing!

[cphollis]

Keep those new product designs coming, Aspen. The SSv3 is a winner.

[Dave Osoff]

Aspen - Thanks for the continued updates and info! I'm also on the list for the next shipment from Sweetwater.

[TomKittel]

Here's a report from a gig this weekend. I played with a blues/rock band. Two guitars, bass, drums, keys (mainly piano, rhodes and organ). I brought my PX5S, a SK1/Vent and a small Mackie 402 mixer. The stage was pretty small. I had to position the SSV3 much too close on the right side next to my keys. In the same distance on the left was one of the two guitar amps, a mid-sized 2x12 Engl tube combo. Both guitarists were way too loud like always. But the SSV3 coped with the sound level of the band VERY WELL. I had the SSV3 volume at 12 o'clock which is only 50 percent and it was loud as hell! It covered the stage very well. With some sounds the SSv3 produced even too much bass. I had to turn down the bass EQ of the PX5S piano sounds. All keys sounded fat, clear and loud. A really amazing piece of gear!

 

Tom

 

 

[Aspen]

OK boys, finally some good news to report; Got an email from my frustrated freight agent that our container was finally released from hostage late last night, after 20 days in "union limbo" and that it would be broken down today.

 

I am expecting delivery tomorrow morning. I have already scheduled a pickup later tomorrow to ship most of these off to Sweetwater, and in turn you.

 

A fate would have it, I have been in Anaheim all day setting up our Aspen Pittman Designs booth, debuting the CPS Spacestation v.3 to the world (outside Keyboard Corner). I was scheduled for more set up all day tomorrow, so this has complicated my life somewhat...never seems to be a dull moment.

 

But fear not, you guys will come first, so I will be sure to get your speakers off to Sweetwater before heading back to Anaheim...even if I have to work until midnight to get the booth ready.

 

So, if everything goes as planned, and I can get then in&out tomorrow, SW should have them in time to start filling your orders by next Monday!

 

For my many export customers, also patiently waiting, I still need to do the 230v conversions on your amps and so that can't happen until after NAMM next Monday...but I promise all of your orders will be ready to go by Monday, Tuesday at latest. You will be getting direct emails from me when they are ready to ship.

 

I can not thank you guys enough for your patience, understanding and support through out all of this delay, your faith in me and my product is humbling.