Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[NoLights]

I had a Space Station MK II for awhile. It was OK, but never really impressed me on acoustic piano. So I'm reluctant to jump on this bandwagon. Is the new version really significantly better?

 

[HAMEGZ]

I had a Space Station MK II for awhile. It was OK, but never really impressed me on acoustic piano. So I'm reluctant to jump on this bandwagon. Is the new version really significantly better?

 

Buried in these 23 pages of posts are comments on the reproduction of the digital acoustic piano, and comparisons with earlier versions,

[NoLights]

Thanks. I've been following the thread off and on and probably missed it.

 

[HSS]

Thanks. I've been following the thread off and on and probably missed it.

I had a similar question about AP's through the new SS3 earlier in this thread WRG to an older GT SFX100 SS I own. The suggestion from the gang was to use a sub and utilize the new SS3's mid and high EQ knobs to try to improve the AP sounds. I've been using a sub off and on with my older SFX100, as well as external EQ, and it improves the AP's a little but IMHO they are still compromised vs. other "normal" amps I have. Perhaps the new SS3's improved speakers and layout will do the trick with AP's; I don't know. I would love to get my hands on a new SS3 and do a simple A/B comparison of AP's with my SFX100 or any older SS.

 

Despite my whining above, I'm very happy with my older SFX100 for organ and EP's in low to moderate volume live situations, and the AP's through it are at least usable. At the end of the day, if the new SS3 improves at all on the older SS's, IMHO it's a damned good little amp for organ players. If the AP's are significantly improved vs. the SFX100, I'll probably try to pick one up.

[Joe Muscara]

I had a Space Station MK II for awhile. It was OK, but never really impressed me on acoustic piano. So I'm reluctant to jump on this bandwagon. Is the new version really significantly better?

 

Buried in these 23 pages of posts are comments on the reproduction of the digital acoustic piano, and comparisons with earlier versions,

And Aspen has posted some videos of some keyboards playing acoustic piano sounds through it. Search the YouTubez.

[Aspen]

What I noticed is that at soft volumes the bass is lost but as you get cranking the balance of low/hi improves. Maybe Aspen can comment on that. I had a Leslie 147 that did this too a few years ago.

 

Yes, I believe this could be the case. I think the answer lies in understanding the system design and it's components.

 

Typical of a Coax (concentric) style speaker, which mates a cone and horn style transducer, the MF 1" throat horn driver (Eminence ADP50) is roughly 6dB more efficient than it's 8" cone speaker...that means it takes a lot less power to wake it up...so it really "cuts" thru at low volume levels.

 

By contrast, our 8" CX2008 woofer, while sweet and smooth, wakes up at higher power levels...it moves more air when it's pumpin'.

 

This coax design is a favorite of mine, I love working with Tannoys and Genelux studio monitors in the studio, and I have Klipsh Horns driven in my MC30 McIntosh tube mono blocks in my pool room! I was blessed to inherit a pair of Urei 809 studio monitors for APR studios (driven by MC60 tube amps). I love their "time aligned" characteristics, and the "in your face" character of a horn design coupled with a good cone woofer...but there are these same trade offs...they sound best when cranked up a bit (I like playback fairly loud!)

 

By contrast, I am NOT a fan of the "all cone" design approach, most famously seen in the Bose speakers. This approach basically arrays multiple (cheap) car speakers that have a peaked midrange character (no lows or highs) compensated by a heavy dipped EQ midrange filer that "flattens" the overall response. All good on paper, but this approach is extremely inefficient so they need 20x the power to get he same SPL as compared to an efficient design like a JBL 2 way, or a Tannoy coax. When the speaker requires SO much electronics to compensate for their horrible frequency response, then I am basically listening to an EQ...which just bothers me.

 

By contrast, the coax approach, even a 2 or 3 way approach, just sounds more natural to me. And also, tube amps LOVE efficient speakers (and as you may know, I favor tube amps :>) I am not alone in this evaluation, and that's probably why you rarely see a Bose speaker in a recording studio control room and never in a mastering room.

 

Of course, there are obvious advantages to the Bose approach, cost; making power amps and EQs is MUCH cheaper than making highly efficient speakers. The Bose approach provides an extremely high BOM to sale price ratio (read; profits!), something like 40 to 1, where as a typical efficient speaker approach like my SS is around to 5 to 1.

 

Also worth noting, all 4 transducer components are driven by Class D amps. Interestingly, Class D amps like to be cranked, and their THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) spec actually IMPROVES at higher power levels (unlike conventional amps).

 

Finally, the total system is "tuned" to be "flat", it's design is kinda a cross between a pro PA system (w/ it's tri-amped power design), and a studio monitor (w/ it's computer modeled filters to smooth out the component and cab package..BTW, the side peaker is also "modeled"). We "tuned" this box to be "optimum" at "medium to high" power levels (say 40%+), so it may sound a but thinner at low levels and if you are playing at lower levels, and you have a mixer w/ EQ, you may like to boost the bass a bit.

 

I think we've all had a home Hi Fi system with a "loudness" switch, this is designed to boost low bass (and upper highs) for use at lower listening levels. So this is really nothing new.

 

Hey, maybe I should add a loudness contour switch on my next design? Naw, you guys have a mixer w/ and EQ for that! I like to keep the product simple to operate, the less knobs the better. I've had many suggestions for "features" to add like DSP trims (vocals, instruments, ect.) and/or extra channels and/or stereo FX...and I can't argue it would make my speaker more versatile and attractive...but it would also raise the price, significantly!

 

Believe me I listen your many "feature" suggestions and I have thought about them all. Then I look at the buffet of $150 stereo mixers on the market with 6-8 channels, 3 band parametric EQ on each channel, and 99 stereo DSP FX...and I sit down until the thought goes away.

[Aspen]

I'll try that tip sometime of putting the SS in a corner.

Nobody puts SS in the corner.

 

Okay, lame joke. But seriously, as a solution for the side-firing speaker blasting out the drummer, what about placing the speaker upside down, so that the side-firing speaker is facing the opposite direction? Assuming you are elevating the whole unit (so the HF driver wouldn't be on the floor), would this be a viable solution?

 

I have been working with these for 14 years...and I can tell you from experience; reflections are your friend. I think it sounds better as you walk away from it, especially if you are off axis.

 

Yes, by all means; use the walls, use the corners (even better, 2 walls!).

 

FYI, for trade shows I've even made a hinged folding 2 pane plexi back wall (about 1" high) and positioned it like a Klipsh folded horn directly behind the back side of the SS...WOW!

 

So play around with placement guys, the more surfaces the side hits the better the interaction with the "the front speaker system, the better the "mix", and that all enhances the CPS 3D magic.

[Aspen]

FYI; some have asked us for Max SPL measurements, and I want to report on that progress.

 

I enlisted the"master"; Dr. Marshall Buck to bring his computer measurement gear out to our big room at APR where last week we made some "real" measurements. FYI, Dr. Buck was the guru (JBL, Cerwin-Vega!, Alesis Monitor One, past AES president) I called on to "tune" both the MK2 and later even moreso tune the V.3 project. NOTE: The early SFX100 and Spacestation had NO modeling and some folks complained about the fidelity and especially the AP sound, but they LOVED the "gag" which worked so well on the Leslie sims. I admit they were far too boxey and "midrangey" (spl?)

 

I will have a full SPL report on both the Front and Side speaker, and how we made the measurements on the CPS website sometime next week when Dr.Buck has finished his report.

 

But I can tell you this; it is almost exactly what I have said it was during that 5 piece band demo we did at the Amp Show in Van Nuys a month or so ago (see JazzMammal's report on this thread). The SS V.3 average Max SPL, of both Front and Side, is around 105dB.

 

FYI, that is layman's translation for; LOUD!

[AndyW]

Thanks again Aspen!

[ADino]

Anyone here get to try this with a Receptor,

laptop setup or Musebox?

Id love to try this thing.

Im interested in AP tones, not organ.

Not that theres anything wrong w/that:D

 

[AndyW]

AP sounds great up high from my SK2. The odd range is from middle C down to the G on the bottom of the bass clef--sounds 'boxy'. I've found that EQ can do a lot for that sound.

 

Is this what some of you are finding?

[cedar]

Very close to ordering this myself, but have one specific question:

 

Can anyone give me an idea how the SSv3 compars to the Alto110a solely in terms of volume (as opposed to tonal quality)?

 

(This is a description of the Alto: http://www.altoproaudio.com/products/ts110a)

 

I purchased the Alto110a kind of as a stopgap, with the expectation that I could use it for home, as a monitor and for very small jazz gigs (like when playing duets). For those purposes, the Alto is fine and it actually has more power than I expected. During one gig at a small bar with a rock band, I was able to run my Hammond xk1C through the Alto (though used a PA for my CP4).

 

I do not like the sound in the Alto for AP, and assume that the SSv3 would be a big upgrade just in that department. But I am curious whether the volume and projection is significantly greater.

[DanL]

To me, the Alto stuff is along the lines of Behringer or the low end Mackie gear. Serviceable, but not great. I haven't rec'd my SSv3 yet but I'm sure it's going to sound a lot better than my low end Mackies, which have been relegated to rehearsal use just so I don't have to haul more gear back and forth to practice.

[cedar]

To me, the Alto stuff is along the lines of Behringer or the low end Mackie gear. Serviceable, but not great. I haven't rec'd my SSv3 yet but I'm sure it's going to sound a lot better than my low end Mackies, which have been relegated to rehearsal use just so I don't have to haul more gear back and forth to practice.

 

I agree and am sure that the SSve actually produces a better sound. I'm asking about a volume comparison simply because that's a quick and easy way for me to get an idea about the power of the SSv3.

[Jazzmammal]

The SS will blow that Alto into the weeds as well as your mind. There's several posts in this thread talking about the power of the SS. I don't have the Alto but I do have the EV ELX112P and it's a very loud powered PA speaker. I've been using that for my keyboards at gigs for the last few years. The SS puts out similar to that.

 

Seriously.

 

Those who are sitting on the fence about this, just buy it. This thing is so hot right now if you don't like it (very unlikely imo) you could sell it to somebody here in a heartbeat. With shipping and a small discount you might be out a hundred bucks. Consider that a rental fee to allow you to check it out. As hot as this is right now you might not even have to discount it at all.

 

Bob

[AndyW]

The SS will blow that Alto into the weeds as well as your mind. There's several posts in this thread talking about the power of the SS. I don't have the Alto but I do have the EV ELX112P and it's a very loud powered PA speaker. I've been using that for my keyboards at gigs for the last few years. The SS puts out similar to that.

 

Seriously.

 

Those who are sitting on the fence about this, just buy it. This thing is so hot right now if you don't like it (very unlikely imo) you could sell it to somebody here in a heartbeat. With shipping and a small discount you might be out a hundred bucks. Consider that a rental fee to allow you to check it out. As hot as this is right now you might not even have to discount it at all.

 

Bob

 

+1

If you are using Hammond sounds then order one immediately. It is louder than you would ever think but in a way that is different from sticking your head in front of huge speaker cab in a stadium.

[mate stubb]

I'm sure this is answered somewhere in the hundreds of responses, but does this cabinet really weigh 40 lbs. as Sweetwater says?

[HAMEGZ]

I'm sure this is answered somewhere in the hundreds of responses, but does this cabinet really weigh 40 lbs. as Sweetwater says?

 

no it doesn't,

 

my scale said 39

 

must be the speakers cause the amps are digital

[John Tweed]

About a half-a-dozen gigs have gone by with the SS3 I'm still very happy with the sound. They were mostly of the relatively loud blues/rock variety, always with a bass player and varying numbers of guitar and horn players. I did not use a sub.

 

At all times the SS3 was loud and clear, except for one occasion where there was too much competition for anything to be heard properly! If anything it may be easily driven too loud due to its wider dispersion when compared to a QSC K10 (which I have been using), and I received some requests from the drummer at one gig to ease it back a notch (very politely). Otherwise comments were all positive in terms of level and the clarity of the overall sound, both from the bandstand and audience perspective.

 

Initially I had the amp on the floor behind me. Previously I've used the K10 in the same spot in wedge position, angled up. With its wide dispersion the SS3 was OK, but better when either higher up (chair or milk crate) or leaning back against something. Putting it on a sub would be ideal. The recent suggestion of putting it in a corner to take advantage of reflections is a good one which I'll try - with a Leslie the reflections can really help to fill the room.

 

I did notice the lack of the extra bottom end compared to that of the K10. Usually I run that in the Ext Sub position when working with a bass player. I haven't yet done a proper comparison of the two yet but the K10 even in this position has a bit more down there. Having said that the only time I really noticed this was when holding a low piano note and letting it ring on at the end of a song.

 

At the end of the gigs the SS3 level setting was at 6-7. I experimented with width and and mid/tweeter levels at various times, generally running them around midway. Having never had a rig that works quite like this, I've found the best approach is to 'tune' the SS3 to the room, using either a familiar mp3 (here's where the demos often found in synths can be quite handy) or to the sound of the piano which seems to be more finicky than the organ.

 

On two nights some other keyboardists had the opportunity to play the rig and were all impressed with the amp's sound. It also gave me a chance to have a listen from the floor and confirm others' listening experiences. The band and other musicians present were also impressed by the level and quality of the sound on and off stage.

 

Keyboards used:

Hammond SK1>Ventilator and direct outs

Privia PX3

Yamaha CP4

Korg Triton LE>Ventilator and direct outs

 

The SK1 organ sounds great, never better and with minimal fiddling of the SS3 knobs. Winding up the SK1's bass fattens the low end, whereas on the K10 I'd leave it in the mid position. Running in stereo the Ventilator rotation becomes apparent , and it loses the phasiness that I hear in mono when the rotors are speeding up. At one gig we played a short set of Booker T tunes and the organ sounded magnificent, loud and full, detailed, very musical, wonderful to play. There's no doubt that organ into a leslie simulator is absolutely killer thru this amp and to a large extent makes me just want to play organ. I've never liked the SK1 piano much, but the SS3 improves it, and with a bit of tweaking maybe could even be made to sound reasonable. The Wurly sounds fat and full though and I tend to use this a lot in preference to "piano" in these situations.

 

By the time I did a second gig with the PX3 I was hip to the idea of tuning the SS3 for the piano (ie width, mids and highs) for the room, before I touch any other eq. This sounded good, but the mono piano thru the K10 works well too in loud bands where there's not a lot of subtlety required from the piano.

 

The CP4 acoustic piano sounds better through the SS3 than anything else I have tried for solo playing. At a loudish gig I used the CP4's master EQ to fine tune the sound and I wasn't totally satisfied. Next time I'll tune the sound on the SS3 first as I did with the PX3. Electric pianos and stereo effects were impressive. Autopan is not as dramatic as with widely spaced speakers, but it sounds much better than a mono tremelo.

 

I used the Triton by itself on one night, playing a lot of chorused ep on stage with 3 horns and 2 guitars. It seems it's not to hard to overdrive the SS3 if it's in the wrong spot and there's too much else going on onstage. I noticed some distortion at times. An overload led would be useful and not too expensive, Aspen?

 

At home I've been using the SS3 to listen to music. It definitely needs a sub for this, else it lacks depths to my ears but otherwise works well, and I intend to use it for keyboard monitoring while recording at home.

 

I've rigged a crossover up using the K10 via a Nord Micro Modular with a low pass filter. This may be a gigable solution for left hand bass and I will be trying it out in this configuration in a couple of days .

 

[RandyFF]

Thanks for the awesome gig report!

 

"I've rigged a crossover up using the K10 via a Nord Micro Modular with a low pass filter. This may be a gigable solution for left hand bass and I will be trying it out in this configuration in a couple of days ."

 

Not sure what you mean by this. Would you explain a bit what you mean?

 

 

[Aspen]

It seems it's not to hard to overdrive the SS3 if it's in the wrong spot and there's too much else going on onstage. I noticed some distortion at times. An overload led would be useful and not too expensive, Aspen?

 

John, I am listening. Thanks for sharing!

Of course most any amp can be driven into distortion, either by saturating the input stage or just simply running out of power (headroom). Although I have not experienced that (yet) in my applications.

Q; I wonder, are you using a mixer b/w the KB and the SS? Then you'd have that clip indicator and be better able to set your gain structure.

While an LED Clip light may not be expensive, the question is "where to PUT it"? If we put it on power amp, then it may not prevent over driving the input stage with too hot of a signal BEFORE the power stage hit max, or if we put it on the input stage the SS may "clip" before max power is achieved. The solution would be two controls; gain sensitivity and level like you'd find in a mixer. But now we are back to adding mixer "features", like extra channels and EQ...and I believe I have already addressed that earlier; so many cheap mixers out there w/ 99 stereo FX and all the rest...and you can buy one of those for a fraction of what it would add to the cost of a SS.

But regarding "distortion"; if the amp is hitting it's max power we can not do much about that....everything has it's limits. But if the input is overloading from too hot of a line signal...we can always just turn it down.

We didn't want to make he SS input sensitivity so low that you could not drive it to full power with a weaker KB signal, so we had to make our V.3 input sensitive enough for use with a (lower output) Keyboard. But at the same time, not so sensitive that a line mixer could distort it too easily (and the user may not be able to turn it low enough). So it's a delicate balance, and a design challenge to be sure.

This is why, given the option, I would always use the SS w/ a mixer so I can clearly set my gain chain to protect the SS input stage. In that setup, the mixer balances levels of all the various sources; KB, backing tracks and vocals and should easily drive the SS to full power with it's Level set around 12 o'clock.

Most KBs will need more "Level" than a mixer to do that. But not a lot more...maybe 2-3 o'clock. Perhaps some keyboards with lots of gain and/or a hotter signal level could distort the input earlier, but I have not come across that situation (yet).

But again John Tweed, THANKS for a thorough report...keep them coming! It really sounds like you are dialing in the best setups already. It also sounds like you are playing in various and louder bands, what with multiple guitars, multiple horns and drummers...something even I have not dared to video (yet, stay tuned!).

I mean hey, that our little eleven square inch (footprint) box with an 8" spk is cutting it for those kind of gigs is very encouraging...considering it's up against amps (and drummers) with far more "cone area" and power!

I also see you like elevating it, I like that too, and in "band scenarios" usually a good idea. But as you may also notice that reduces bass response, so it's a trade off.

However, and IMHO when playing in those larger bands, elevating the SS on top of a medium sized powered sub (150-200 watt w/ a 10"or 12" woofer) and set for 125Hz limit, should give you more "poop" before distortion in future, and add a floor of sonic support that will surely satisfy someone who's reference is a real Leslie, or a real 9' grand....and you will enjoy it even more!

[Jazzmammal]

It also sounds like you are playing in various and louder bands, what with multiple guitars, multiple horns and drummers...something even I have not dared to video (yet, stay tuned!).

 

I mean hey, that our little eleven square inch (footprint) box with an 8" spk is cutting it for those kind of gigs is very encouraging...considering it's up against amps (and drummers) with far more "cone area" and power!

 

I really think this is what you need to do next Aspen. You may remember me saying at one point "I need my sax player". What I really wanted to say was "I need my drummer, bass and sax player". I did ok playing LH bass I guess but it's not my thing, I'm a full band player.

 

I think it would be great to do a demo with a funk/rock/blues band with a horn or two. I can tell you for sure you don't need to throttle the guys down, just let them play normally for your room, the SS will keep up just fine and if you need some keyboard help...

 

Bob

[ChrisDespo]

I also see you like elevating it, I like that too, and in "band scenarios" usually a good idea. But as you may also notice that reduces bass response, so it's a trade off.

However, and IMHO when playing in those larger bands, elevating the SS on top of a medium sized powered sub (150-200 watt w/ a 10"or 12" woofer) and set for 125Hz limit, should give you more "poop" before distortion in future, and add a floor of sonic support that will surely satisfy someone who's reference is a real Leslie, or a real 9' grand....and you will enjoy it even more!

 

Aspen, great amp- didn't know what i was missing all these years playing in mono until I started playing live using my SS w/ true stereo! Definitely a game changer ...

 

I have a question regarding your comment using a sub along with it ... I have the SS and a powered sub (I'm using my Presonus Temblor T10 250W) and was gonna start bringing the sub with me for bigger venues (150+ seats or so) and outdoor gigs. The Temblor has an adjustable crossover built in along with a HP filter option and outputs for left/right to send to mains. Do you recommend plugging my sound source (keys) directly into the left/right inputs of the sub and then using the built in crossover along with the HP filter and sending the outputs to the SS or should I be hooking it up the other way around (go INTO the SS first and then out to my subwoofer using the SUB OUT to my subwoofer)? I'm assuming I should do it the way I have been by going into the sub first, but would like to know the proper way to do it ... I seem to recall on some of your videos it seems like you may be doing it the reverse (going INTO the SS and hooking up the sub to the SUB OUT) ...

 

Sorry if this is elementary but I just want to get the most out of the SS V3 ...

 

Thanks again!

[Aspen]

 

Aspen, great amp- didn't know what i was missing all these years playing in mono until I started playing live using my SS w/ true stereo! Definitely a game changer ...

 

I have a question regarding your comment using a sub along with it ... I have the SS and a powered sub (I'm using my Presonus Temblor T10 250W) and was gonna start bringing the sub with me for bigger venues (150+ seats or so) and outdoor gigs. The Temblor has an adjustable crossover built in along with a HP filter option and outputs for left/right to send to mains. Do you recommend plugging my sound source (keys) directly into the left/right inputs of the sub and then using the built in crossover along with the HP filter and sending the outputs to the SS or should I be hooking it up the other way around (go INTO the SS first and then out to my subwoofer using the SUB OUT to my subwoofer)? I'm assuming I should do it the way I have been by going into the sub first, but would like to know the proper way to do it ... I seem to recall on some of your videos it seems like you may be doing it the reverse (going INTO the SS and hooking up the sub to the SUB OUT) ...

 

Sorry if this is elementary but I just want to get the most out of the SS V3 ...

 

Thanks again!

 

Thank YOU for the kind comments, and there are no questions to elementary...in fact yours is interesting because I am not really sure which way is best

 

Actually Chris, I think both ways will work fine but I am not sure which may sound best. My guess is your way is probably better.

My little swap meet $50 HiFi subs in the videos only have RCA jacks and/or speaker terminals...or I might have tried it that way myself!

There may be another advantage your way, if the pass thru on your sub has filtering that removes low bass from the SS signal...then it may actually sound better (check the manual).

On the other hand, I am not sure if you would have matching sensitivities b/w the sub and SS input stages, as a sub is designed for a power amp and our SS for a KB up to a Power amp level. So as long as there are not any "buffering amps" that might lower impedance and/or signal levels, and thereby possibly add some noise floor, and/or change signal levels...then I think you are OK. As you have been using it this way before, that is probably a non issue.

When in doubt, do what I do; try it both ways and see! Then pick the way that sounds best to your ears, those are your ultimate measurement tools. Then, please post it here so I can learn from you!

[Dave Bryce]

There may be another advantage your way, if the pass thru on your sub has filtering that removes low bass from the SS signal...then it may actually sound better (check the manual).

The T10 can actually be used either with it's LPF engaged or without, depending on how you want to run it - but either way, you should plug into it then through it to the SS because that's the configuration that gives you the most flexibility.

 

Also, the T10 can be set up with so that you can turn the bass management network on and off with it's footswitch, so you can easily compare and see which way of running it sounds the best in any environment.

 

Personally, I like to let the satellites run full range and lose energy naturally, then use the variable filter control to dial the sub in so it starts to gain energy right about where the satellites start to lose it. Much more natural sound, IMO.

 

dB

[ChrisDespo]

Aspen and Dave - thanks for the suggestions ... Really appreciate it ...

 

I'm currently using it like you said, Dave, going directly into the T10 first and making adjustments and using the footswitch on the T10 to bypass the T10 and A/B the sound (with and without T10 active) ... so far I kind of like the way I have it setup now with the T10 active - I have disabled the onboard HPF and have full range passing through to the SS - setting the input gain at unity on the T10 from my PX5S. I've got the crossover set around 125HZ per Aspen's recommendation above and that seems to sound pretty darn good to me ... (On the SS, I have the level set around 12 o'clock, width at 2'oclock, miss at 12 and HFQ around 1) ... I'm testing using various sounds like AP, EP, organs (using my Kurz PC3 mostly for them), Strings, and just hooking up a music source (iPad) for streaming music through it ... everything I've pumped through it so far sounds really clean, so much so that I've been pumping music through it as my home stereo while I'm working from home lol ... this setup just blows me away and can't wait to start using the T10 for the first time live with my SS after Thanksgiving ...

-Chris

[bluzeplayr]

I actually own two of the ss100 v2 amps. I bought one when they came out, and the other when sweetwater had their sale since I kept blowing the side speaker and needed a spare (i used an eminence open back as replacement side driver). I was running an electro 2 thru it (plus a little barbetta underneath), and the leslie sound has always been great.

 

I just ordered v3, hopefully I can sell the 2's to help pay for it ($200 each if anyone is interested).

 

One comment: with v2 and the nord e2, i would sometimes get complaints from the drummer or sax player next to me. It was because of a piercing high tone that sometimes emitted to the side. I never sat down to analyze it, but I'm wondering if the side signal (i think it's L-R) is different in v3 than it was in v2. Or if maybe the side-firing speaker has a different resonance that might soften this in v3. I used to think about putting together a hinged plexiglass reflector, and after reading aspen's post on the subject I kind of wish I had tried it.

 

Anyhow, I was wondering if the side signal is very different in the new version. I use a burn now and that seems to have helped.

 

Bruce

[Aspen]

I actually own two of the ss100 v2 amps.....

Anyhow, I was wondering if the side signal is very different in the new version. I use a burn now and that seems to have helped.

Bruce

Bruce, thanks for your support in past, hope to make you happy w/ the V.3, and I don't think you'll have any trouble selling the SFX 100 for $200 (they had a mic channel w/ reverb + the KB inputs....so was great for a small one man band application.) However, I don't think SW ever had those as hat model was a GC exclusive and (sadly) kinda rushed on the market to hit their Christmas targets...so we never got the time to do the acoustic modeling like we did on the later version MK2, and even moreso on the new V.3.

That also goes to partially answer you question on the "improvement" of side speaker response; yes...the V.3 is better than the MK2 (which had some computer generated filter correction to smooth the FR) and WAY better than the SS V.1 and SFX 100 we made at first (which had no corrections).

Also as compared to both these earlier SS units, the new V.3 has a MUCH better 8" coax (CX2008, w/ poly cone and rubber surround), and the Eminence APT50 mid driver. Both of these key components are made in USA and shipped to DG China for assembly, as opposed to the V.1, SFX100 and MK.2 that used all Chinese components. The USA parts are better, no denying it, but add cost which partially explains the higher selling price of the V.3 (that, and the market conditions from the former liquidation of all SS units at WAY under GT cost by Fender after I sold them GT in 2008, and when they decided not to continue with it)

Also with regard to the V.3, we are using a better quality 6.5" Eminence speaker, and we have done MORE computer modeling and filter improvements to BOTH Front and Side systems, PLUS added 4 new Class D amps, 3 of which are used in a tri amp Front speaker design....all of which also helps both lower distortion AND smooth out the FR.

NOTE TO ALL: After many "mods for friends" and subsequent requests, we will be offering a MK2 customer a DYI "V.3 component upgrade" kit. This is NOT going to turn your MK2 into a V.3, but it will be a VERY noticeable improvement and get you about 90% of the way there. Unlike the SFX100 and first SS, the MK2 does have some "modeling" to smooth out the FR, so adding the CX2008 and the L-pads to trim the MF and HF components gets you "close" to sounding like a V.3.

FYI, One CPS fan did this upgrade to his MK2 years ago all on his own and waltzed into APR studios for a comparison to my original MK2, which I thought sounded pretty good. It blew mine away, not even close! So I ordered some CX2008 spks and some L-pads right then and upgraded all of mine. I did the same for my pals like Michael Boddicker....everyone love it. Then Eminence discontinued the CX2008 and that stopped. I was "retired" as a manufacture at this time and spent years trying to interest Fender or anyone to bring the SS back on the market...but everyone turned me down (and I mean nearly every name at NAMM). So, that led to my "un-retirement" and the V.3 is now back on the market from a small company of one (me). But now that the amazingly cool folks at Eminence have not only custom made the CX2008 for me, and also partnered to actually make the V.3 "turnkey" using the CX2008 and other USA components...I finally got my "Bucket List" wish; the SS V.3 is back!

So now it is possible to make this component upgrade for any MK2 users out there.

This "MK2.3" kit includes the formerly discontinued CX2008 8" coax woofer that Eminence makes by custom order for our new V.3, 2x inline L-pads to trim you MF and HF, and associated small parts to make it easy work...along with pictorial directions. If you also want to upgrade the MF driver to their stock APD50 and their 6.5 side speaker these are available from many sources but I do not think that will be absolutely necessary...the original components are nearly the same.

I am not trying to "sell" anything here, so I will not discuss price per rules of this forum...but I thought this info could be useful to some of you with the MK2 units, but you will have to be handy with a drill (for mounting the L-pads) and connecting the wires. I should have this MK2.3 upgrade kit up on the Aspen and Associates website in a few weeks (and maybe the CPS website too) so stay tuned (no pun intended : > ).

 

[JohnCorda]

This sounds like a great speaker, and given that my Motion Sound KBR-3D is currently in pieces in my friend's workshop, I'm looking around for alternatives. Currently using my older KC-550 to cover gigs. Although my friend is probably going to bring the KBR3D back to life, I am thinking it remains as more of a back up amp.

 

I'm probably going to get one of the current KBR3D amps that are still in stock because, unfortunately the SSv3 doesn't have enough inputs. I was seriously considering this amp [the SSv3], with a VentII and I suppose also a sub. Maybe SSv4 will have an extra mono input for B3 emulator. I have an SK1 and an old Nord Stage, and I use both on gigs 90% of the time.

 

Edit: and also no easy outputs when needed for the sound guy which cover all my sounds (i.e. two XLR)

[Aspen]

I was seriously considering this amp, with a VentII and I suppose also a sub. Maybe SSv4 will have an extra mono input for B3 emulator. I have an SK1 and an old Nord Stage, and I use both on gigs 90% of the time.

Actually John, let me put that idea to rest right now; do not count on the SS V.4 having a built in mixer, and a bunch of inputs and/or any FX or EQ...for reasons I have already explained; just too many good small mixers on the market with all of that (and more) for $100-200. No way I can compete with that, and/or would want to burden the average guy with that extra cost. Anyway, it sounds like you'd be better served with one of those anyway.

Center Point Stereo has two prime directives; 1) KISS (keep it simple stupid) so that means keep the size and cost to a minimum so anyone can afford one, and 2) provide the only the stereo sound field that works everywhere and every time...nothing sounds like CPS.

I do not mean to sound prideful, but nothing can compete with our 300 degree 3D stereo sound field, it is just a fact, ask anyone who owns one.

Also regarding price; you can almost buy THREE SS V.3 for the price of one of your amps mentioned here. That's one for each keyboard, and one to spare (and hey, there you go; "multiple inputs" :>) Not to mention your SK1 will actually sound like it's connected to a Leslie (without the wind).

If and when I build the SS V.4, it will most likely resemble a big V.3; maybe 50% larger, 2-300% more power, and probably 50% higher in price.

But as of now I have no firm plans for that. I remain focused on just trying to catch up with current V.3 demand and back order. I am embarrassed to have under estimated the demand...but I wanted to start slow and be sure the product was right. There are a lot of dead pioneers.

But I completely understand you choosing to go with an "in stock" product at this point, and I don't blame you.

Delivery report: the 2nd run due late December is nearly sold out now at Sweetwater and will be sold out long before it arrives. The 3rd run is in process (FYI, this is a 120 day start to finish process), due early February, and which will very likely be sold out before it arrives too.

To end this constant BO situation, I just started a "triple" 4th run for March delivery. I hope that will catch up to the back orders and put some stock on Sweetwater's shelves.

Meanwhile, thanks for your honesty, candid remarks and great suggestions, they are very much appreciated. I hope I am giving you the same in return...you deserve it!