NEO VENTILATOR II

[Craig MacDonald]

Jim,

 

I'm not sure what happened. My message to you no longer exists, so either the msg failed to send, or I failed to send it properly.

 

Either way, I sincerely apologize, it was my intention for you and I to discuss this off-line via PM rather than in the forum.

However, I want to restate for everyone to hear that I am absolutely NOT suggesting that you are "a shill for the manufacturers that you happen to be endorsed by", and I have repeatedly stated very clearly that I recognize you work with these companies because you believe in their product (not the other way around). I will send you a PM and you can choose to respond or not as you see fit.

 

Again my apologies for the problem with the PM.

[Tomkeen]

Speaking of inappropriate comments, I wonder how the women on this forum feel about this one..

 

Well then, let me defend myself the same way you do. Ready?

 

"I have lot's of experience with women in their period. I have discussed the issues the period brings up with them and they all agree that they can get really bitchy. Since I've had so much experience I consider myself an expert on this topic."

 

Kind of ridiculous, right?

[Craig MacDonald]

Keep it up Tomkeen! Please, your silly comments are making me look good!

 

And somehow I get blamed for dragging this thread off topic.. wow!

[TKN]

 

I would assume that most people agrees that everything a person expresses is based on their own point of view, his or her experience, etc. It should be unnecessary to end all sentences with a statement that the position is based on his or her own opinion.

 

I greatly appreciate your participation in this forum Jim, and I appreciate that you are expressing your personal opinion as regards both clones and Leslie simulators. I never doubted for one second that your statement is based on your experience as a musician. There is absolutely no need to end all sentences with a statement that it is based on your own opinion. :-)

 

Please forgive me for my bad English.

 

 

 

[JoJoB3]

Being a Hammond (real Hammond, meaning furniture mover) player I will concur, I wouldn't really opt to choose ANY of these leslie sims for an important show, unless it's a quick and dirty casual and/or a show where the organ simply can't go (very few and far between). But...where the Burn shines is in the studio (real organ preferred). If you don't know why I say this then you haven't played with it. Multi-functional little thing.

McGriff "bark"?...yep! Shiney "Groove Holmes wash"?...yep! Jimmy in paradise ala 1965?...damn close! Of course I assume you've heard the ROCK samples.

Just as good as most recordings with the 21H, 122, 145? I'm shocked to say...yep! (if not better in some cases).

 

Factor in all the other bells and whistles and...it's kinda crazy. Very happy with the Burn and looking forward to more updates added.

 

But...what is with this "hardware war" stuff? The Vent (1 or 2) will fit part of the above just as well. It's how you use it, right? Why waste time doing the apple/windows thing with these?

 

Rawk on!

 

PS: I certainly didn't read Craig's post as some slam on Jim.

I read the post, I think that's hogwash.

 

Everyone go to their respective 122's and time out!!

 

Actually, I think you are missing the point.. most players who perform with real hammonds take real leslies with them.. These sims are targeted at clones and guitar players and, based on the release of Neo Instruments newest products, I would say that guitars are their primary focus (when you consider their recent products mini-vent for guitar vs poorly thought out mini-vent for keyboards with no remote, and the Ventilator II with really only one new thing.. a second guitar mode).

 

I think that the number of real hammond players performing with a vent/burn or whatever is completely insignificant compared to the number of clone users that own ventilator/burn sims.. Furthermore, I'm convinced that the lack of midi and new guitar modes, suggest that they're really going after the guitar effect market which I expect is MUCH larger than the clone or real hammond market.

 

Just MY opinion of course..

[JoJoB3]

Jim! How was NAMM? Saw your posts! Jim doesn't give a rip about the leslie sim war.

...wait...huh??

(I keeed)

 

But wait Jim, personally I'd have to disagree (obviously given my posts) - but - that's also because I have my own druthers on what I want see and hear from these d*mn things. I had the vent in house for a bit but wasn't as enamored with it after day 3 (plus this one didn't have the 1/2moon setup...which bummed me out). It was however an excellent, basic, get it donw, 122 sim as many attest. This Burn is rather different (and not in a bad way). Check it out if you can. I just got the 3-way halfmoon in for it and it makes it even more fun.

 

* But if I could I'd send you this Burn thing to mess around with I would I think you'll see what I mean when talking "in the studio". Plus in the long run, I think the Burn is cheaper (accessories, accessories).

 

I still say though - plenty of room for all these sims. Buy the one you dig. I got no horse in this race...the real leslies come out for the gigs!

 

Or...waste time talking about gear you should be playing (ducks and covers).

 

The Vent still sounds better than the Burn. The Burn might be more flexible, but the Vent is the better, more authentic Leslie sim.

 

The VentII is not necessarily a replacement for the original. The original is no longer available. This is a new model that features a couple of improvements.

 

It cannot be understated how important real-time control is with the Vent. All the primary functions are a dedicated knob away. No menu diving, no staring at a screen. One thing I love about the original Vent is that the DRIVE and DISTANCE knobs are right there, which I often adjust per songs with Janiva (and no, presets wouldn't work because my tastes change every night depending on the room, the atmosphere, the audience, how the song is being played that night, etc.)

[JoJoB3]

I'm convinced..once the aliens come down for attack they're gonna keep the musicians. Gut feeling.

 

Just sayin

 

 

 

You could debate Leslie sims or we could all watch this and chill.

 

http://i.imgur.com/k8OZr.gif

 

I love this!!! , absolutely fascinating beyond words.

Sadly , most people haven't known about this , and it doesn't even seem to interest them.

 

Brett

 

I wonder if they have Mellotrons in other galaxies...???

[Tomkeen]

Keep it up Tomkeen! Please, your silly comments are making me look good!

 

And somehow I get blamed for dragging this thread off topic.. wow!

 

Don't worry. It's what I do. No matter how silly you get, there's always someone who can get a lot sillier.

 

I'm kind of an equalizer, I guess.

[JoJoB3]

Btw: I can't find the clip right now but I heard the Hammond Leslie pedal(w an sk). Sounded pretty good too!

[JoJoB3]

Well wait a sec, given the sheer diff in number of gtr players vs. Hammond players, it's not foolish at all to target that audience. No? Even Hammond has a lot more media of guitarists out with their new pedal.

GOD FORBID A GUITARIST HAUL THE REAL DEAL! (pansies!

 

*yes, I'm kidding.

 

Wow, very disappointing... Based on various forums I think a lot of people were waiting to see what the Ventilator II had to offer before committing to a Burn or waiting for the new Ventilator.. I expect cthat the guys at Crumar/GSE should start gearing up production.

 

I am really shocked that the guys at Neo Instruments would release such an overpriced and uncompetitive product. I get that some people prefer the sound of the squashed sound of the Vent, OK, but no midi, no new emulations (147 or other), no reverb and really.. two new guitar modes...? When you look at the mini-vents lack of remote and the Vent II's new modes for guitar.. it's obvious that Neo Instruments aren't listening to keyboard players. IMHO

 

One last thing.. it's pretty fugly..

[WesG]

I dunno, man. Most guitarists don't know what to do with a Leslie; most organists do.

 

If I was Neo, I would worry about staying the big fish in the small pond, rather than trying to be a small fish in a big pond. As it stands, the competition in the organ space is gunning for them and guitar space really doesn't give a crap. Leslies with horns are a waste on guitar, anyhow. Guitars need Leslie 16 and 25 sims. Line 6 couldn't even sell guitarists enough Roto Machines to bother keeping them in the catalogue...and they HAD a Leslie 16 sim!

[HammondDave]

I dunno, man. Most guitarists don't know what to do with a Leslie; most organists do.

 

If I was Neo, I would worry about staying the big fish in the small pond, rather than trying to be a small fish in a big pond. As it stands, the competition in the organ space is gunning for them and guitar space really doesn't give a crap. Leslies with horns are a waste on guitar, anyhow. Guitars need Leslie 16 and 25 sims. Line 6 couldn't even sell guitarists enough Roto Machines to bother keeping them in the catalogue...and they HAD a Leslie 16 sim!

 

I agree...

 

If I had a dollar for every guitar effects pedal I saw this weekend at NAMM...

 

I don't think many guitar players will be buying either a Vent II or Burn at those prices.

[Losendoskeys]

I dunno, man. Most guitarists don't know what to do with a Leslie; most organists do.

 

If I was Neo, I would worry about staying the big fish in the small pond, rather than trying to be a small fish in a big pond. As it stands, the competition in the organ space is gunning for them and guitar space really doesn't give a crap. Leslies with horns are a waste on guitar, anyhow. Guitars need Leslie 16 and 25 sims. Line 6 couldn't even sell guitarists enough Roto Machines to bother keeping them in the catalogue...and they HAD a Leslie 16 sim!

 

I agree...

 

If I had a dollar for every guitar effects pedal I saw this weekend at NAMM...

 

I don't think many guitar players will be buying either a Vent II or Burn at those prices.

 

Exactly.

 

Guitarists don't generally spend money in the same amount as we keyboardists - we have to because keyboards are expensive.

 

Likewise they will squeal like crazy if they have to shell out cash on a single effect unit like a Leslie sim - they would generally rather have a multi-effect unit for the same cash.

 

Unless they want a particular effects pedal like one of their heroes they will make do with a multi-effect version.

 

For me the Vent is aimed at the keyboard market and as the King is dead, long live the King.

All the thousands of new keyboard players on the planet will hear about the Vent or Burn and make their choice.

 

All IMHO of course...........

 

[CEB]

I don't know. Guitarist are spending some stupid money. They are shelling out $300 on ebay for used modified Tube Screamers circuits.

 

IMO true leslie sound is lost on guitar. Guitars don't push the enough Harmonic content to put a Leslie to good use. I think guitars sound better with less accurate and less subtle devices.

 

You older rock guys know the tone of a Leslie has as much to do with registrations, note selection and number of notes as it does with how hard you mash the gas pedal. Six little pieces of wire don't cut it. Not enough polyphany. LOL

[Craig MacDonald]

Hey glad we're back on track and my apologies to all for the part that I played in dragging us OT...

 

Clearly there is a lot of interest in the question "what is the market for this new Vent II and what's with this price?" (so it's not just me) It's a big f-ing mystery ... simple replacement for the original? Big fish in a small pond...? guitarists looking for cheap multi-effects vs guitar collectors willing to spend any amount for "that" guitar or "that" sound.. Internal sims which are improving vs external leslie pedals, brand new guitar pedals entering the market... all of these factors influence the market for the Vent stuff (as well as lots of things that haven't been mentioned here). I love JoJoB3's question.. how often do you see a guitar player performing with a real leslie?

 

Obviously we can speculate all we want but only time will tell. In the mean time, I think this is healthy discussion (others might disagree) but CEB is thinking of a new sim and can't decide between the mini-vent and the Vent II and I'm sure that others are pondering Burn vs Vent, and maybe the new HS Leslie pedal is coming into the mix as well (I'm a tad surprised to hear it's been out for months and I'm sure how it managed to stay under the radar..?). I'd be interested in hearing it JoJoB3 if you can find that clip. I'll have to go look for this.

 

 

[CEB]

Vent II is not released yet but I won't be going out until 1st week of

May. I think I am waiting on Vent 2 because it has a seperate button for the brake.

[Dave Bryce]

Okay, I've had about enough of this...

 

The rules quoted by Craig that Steve Fortner posted were established (and written) by me, so I feel safe in saying I'm the best authority on what they mean and how they should be enforced.

 

Jim A is not employed by either Hammond or Neo. He's an endorsee. That's not the same as being an employee of a company. Further, Jim IS identifying himself as an endorsee - he is not in any way keeping it a secret.

 

My rules about employees of companies identifying themselves as such are specifically to keep people from coming here for the purpose of promoting their products and/or services. Jim A's presence here is (and always has been) first and foremost as a keyboard player. I have no problem at all with how he conducts himself.

 

Further, I believe that I know Jim well enough that I have no doubt that anything he says about any product - whether he's an endorsee or not - is what he genuinely believes to be the case, and that the last thing on his mind is to try and sell more units for any company.

 

Hopefully, that clarifies the Official Moderator Position. I'd really appreciate it if the thread could be allowed to return to it's original path now.

 

dB

[CEB]

Jimmy sure helped my ass out a lot getting that XK3 straightened out. Out of the box I thought it sounded like a Hammond with a bad re-cap job. ( I never had a new tonewheel maybe they were originally that brite) Just out of the goodness of his heart he helped get it sounding pretty good. ..... He knows his ****.

[Bif_]

Okay, I've had about enough of this...

 

The rules quoted by Craig that Steve Fortner posted were established (and written) by me, so I feel safe in saying I'm the best authority on what they mean and how they should be enforced.

 

Jim A is not employed by either Hammond or Neo. He's an endorsee. That's not the same as being an employee of a company. Further, Jim IS identifying himself as an endorsee - he is not in any way keeping it a secret.

 

My rules about employees of companies identifying themselves as such are specifically to keep people from coming here for the purpose of promoting their products and/or services. Jim A's presence here is (and always has been) first and foremost as a keyboard player. I have no problem at all with how he conducts himself.

 

Further, I believe that I know Jim well enough that I have no doubt that anything he says about any product - whether he's an endorsee or not - is what he genuinely believes to be the case, and that the last thing on his mind is to try and sell more units for any company.

 

Hopefully, that clarifies the Official Moderator Position. I'd really appreciate it if the thread could be allowed to return to it's original path now.

 

dB

 

I second that emotion.

 

[AnotherScott]

Okay, I've had about enough of this...

 

The rules quoted by Craig that Steve Fortner posted were established (and written) by me, so I feel safe in saying I'm the best authority on what they mean and how they should be enforced.

 

Jim A is not employed by either Hammond or Neo. He's an endorsee.

Actually, I believe he's an endorser, not an endorsee. That is, he endorses Hammond, Hammond does not endorse him. But... carry on. Or don't. ;-)

[JoJoB3]

I thought the topic was about the leslie sim vent 2 release. No?

[Craig MacDonald]

Dave thanks for the clarification.. personally I think that the term "employee" should be replaced with "agent" to cover any agent of a music manufacturer who's presence on the forum is not as "pristine" as our friend Jim. Not all "agents" of music companies have the high level of integrity that we all associate with Jim Alfredson, some may come with ulterior motives.

 

However, as far as I am concerned the case is closed, thank you for clarifying so we can move on.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

"I have lot's of experience with women in their period. I have discussed the issues the period brings up with them and they all agree that they can get really bitchy. Since I've had so much experience I consider myself an expert on this topic."

The diversion was worth it for this response alone. Thanks for the laugh, Tom. And it even corresponded with Craig's apologizing for PMs. ;-)

[CEB]

Well one thing I don't like is the remote pedal for the Ventilator only has 5ft or TRS cable on it. Picture does not show the cable joint.

 

Is it permanently molded on or is there a TRS jack on the pedal?

 

Thanks

 

http://www.neo-instruments.de/en/ventilator/options

 

[WesG]

The Vent II is really "Neo Ventillator 1.1" in my opinion.

 

Hopefully they have made some changes to the design which will make it more reliable, they have addressed a few minor user complaints (looks like they have stereo bypass now?) ... and that's it.

 

I bet it will be priced exactly where the 1.0 was. They need the minor improvements to keep the price from falling. Personally, I like the metal case.

 

I wonder where they are on development of a 147 amp sim. They could be releasing the Vent II as their new platform with basically the 1.0 software in it...then when the 2.0 software is ready, they bump the paint job, switch software, bump the price until the 1.1 is sold out...

 

Summary: from a software guy's POV, their lack of change smells like a marketing need to deliver *something* but the engineering reality that the software is behind schedule.

 

I would love to tear open a new and and old vent.

[Stale]

I bought the Ashby Pedal not the NEO one. It was half the price. It has a TRS plug so you can put any size cable on it. It looks like the Neo Remote has a removeable TRS on it as well.

[CEB]

Thanks!

[Craig MacDonald]

CEB,

 

I'm not sure if it's been posted here by anyone (if it has sorry for the duplication) but Ashby Solutions have come up with a very nice looking replacement/alternative to the traditional half moon switch.. Give that a look for your Vent II.. it looks very cool.

 

AND.. here's a tip that I'm pretty sure has not been posted here.. Bruce told me he was pretty sure he could wire it up for either a Vent/Vent II and/or a Burn, simply by changing the cable.. For those of us with both Vent/Burn in our rig, this is awesome (unless you get the cables mixed up of course)..

[Dave Bryce]

Actually, I believe he's an endorser, not an endorsee. That is, he endorses Hammond, Hammond does not endorse him. But... carry on. Or don't. ;-)

Right you are....

 

Have I mentioned that I've just finished four straight days of trade show?

 

personally I think that the term "employee" should be replaced with "agent" to cover any agent of a music manufacturer who's presence on the forum is not as "pristine" as our friend Jim. Not all "agents" of music companies have the high level of integrity that we all associate with Jim Alfredson, some may come with ulterior motives.

Thanks for the suggestion, Craig...but I actually don't think that's necessary. The forum has proven time and time again to be self-policing in that respect. People who come here with ulterior motives are usually set upon by the community pretty quickly - it's kinda tough to disguise that sort of thing for very long....

 

...and typically, if the forum denizens don't get them first, I find 'em.

 

Thanks, guys!

 

dB

[CEB]

CEB,

 

I'm not sure if it's been posted here by anyone (if it has sorry for the duplication) but Ashby Solutions have come up with a very nice looking replacement/alternative to the traditional half moon switch.. Give that a look for your Vent II.. it looks very cool.

 

AND.. here's a tip that I'm pretty sure has not been posted here.. Bruce told me he was pretty sure he could wire it up for either a Vent/Vent II and/or a Burn, simply by changing the cable.. For those of us with both Vent/Burn in our rig, this is awesome (unless you get the cables mixed up of course)..

 

My situation is where I don't use a halfmoon much. I usually change speeds with a kick switch on the swell pedal because I do too much stuff where I am playing a piano part with one hand and a organ part with another. I have the XK where it usally alternates between fast and brake.

 

5+years ago I was cover left hand bass. Half moon is nice if all I am doing is playing organ but I often do not have a free hand. I am look for some sort of footswitch.

 

It would be so cool if I could control the Vent from the 11-pin socket. I am way behind everybody on this sort of thing. I am still using real Leslies. My next gig isn't going to transport my rig via their trailer. LOL It needs to fit in a HHR.