Yamaha CP4

[Michiel]

http://www.sonicftp.com/news/images/21152_2.jpg

 

Nice pic at sonicstate.

 

Having a hard time listening to the audio files, they take an afwull long time to load, or am I the only one having this trouble?

[Marillo]

My laptop won't play the video files for some reason.

 

Also, interesting that Sonicstate have the UK price of the CP-4 as £2035...has that been confirmed? Sounds pricier than I'd hoped.

[Pale]

I always found the Wurly in the CP5 completely uninspiring

Disagree bigtime. Also, IIRC, there was an OS update that improved the playability.

 

I disagree as well, wurlitzer on my CP5 is one of my favourite sounds on it. Sounds great, and feels good to play.

[Dana.]

The more photos of the CP4 I see, the more I like how it combines all of the physical design elements of the CP1/CP5 and CP300/CP33 that I like: body of the CP33, buttons of the CP1/CP5, sliders of the CP300, silver/Rhodes-esque stripe on the CP1/CP5, same wheels as the CP1/CP5, etc. It's an attractive broad board.

[burningbusch]

Yes, an English owner's manual would be appreciated so I might edit this when I get a chance to look through it.

 

Seems that the voicing structure is quite a bit different than the CP-1/5 where you had:

VOICE==>PRE-AMP==>MOD/FX==>POWER AMP==>REVERB==>MASTERCOMP==>MASTER EQ.

 

Now it looks like it's

 

VOICE==>INSERT FX (A/B)==>CHORUS/REVERB==>MASTERCOMP==>MASTER EQ.

 

The "modeling" parameters from the CP-1/5 don't appear to be available. Previously you had access to things like key-off noise level, hammer stiffness, strike position (EPs only), decay and release times. There also appears to be no equivalent to the POWER AMP section.

 

Seems that the modeling parameters are locked into the model variations provided. You take one of the models and then assign insert FXs to your liking. A much simpler approach, but not as versatile.

 

One thing I felt was missing from the CP-1/5 is an full range EQ that can be assigned at the voice level and saved with the performance. The Master EQ is a room EQ only. With the CP-4 you can have two insert FXs so one can be EQ and the other modulation, for example. You can, BTW, assign a PreAmp model to one of the insert FXs so that aspect hasn't been lost.

 

Long winded way of saying things are a bit different under the hood. Probably won't affect 99% of the users.

 

Busch.

[burningbusch]

Also note that the large assignable knobs (6 on the CP-1, 3 on the CP-5) have been eliminated. These were assignable at the performance level and gave you real-time control over things like stereo vibrato intensity, vibrato speed, mod intensity, etc.. These were fully assignable to parameters throughout the instrument.

 

That's somewhat of an unfortunate deletion. Don't know how much real-time control is available on the CP-4.

 

Busch.

[dazzjazz]

Also note that the large assignable knobs (6 on the CP-1, 3 on the CP-5) have been eliminated. These were assignable at the performance level and gave you real-time control over things like stereo vibrato intensity, vibrato speed, mod intensity, etc.. These were fully assignable to parameters throughout the instrument.

 

That's somewhat of an unfortunate deletion. Don't know how much real-time control is available on the CP-4.

 

Busch.

 

Ah that's interesting, perhaps you can assign one parameter per patch to the mod wheel?

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some kind of real time control on "the best digital piano Yamaha have ever made"

 

I'm buying this for three reasons.

 

Firstly, my gigging needs have changed. Second: The Nord Stage is great as we all know, but even though I got used to the sub-par finger-to-sound connection on APs, there were kinds of articulations and 'vibe' that I couldn't coax out of the board. I mostly liked the Yamaha Studio grand for jazz, and the Bright Yamaha for rock/blues, but I never felt entirely confident I could do what I needed to do. It's a pity, as I will miss the Rhodes that play so damn well from the Fatar action, and the synth section which is mighty indeed.

 

Third reason: Despite having not laid hands on one, I've owned several incarnations of Yamaha DPs to instinctively know what I'm gonna get. I nearly bought a CP5, loving the sounds and action, but the user interface and weight scared me away. Now that it seems they have addressed this (and then some!) I'm happy to take the plunge.

[AnotherScott]

Also note that the large assignable knobs (6 on the CP-1, 3 on the CP-5) have been eliminated. These were assignable at the performance level and gave you real-time control over things like stereo vibrato intensity, vibrato speed, mod intensity, etc.. These were fully assignable to parameters throughout the instrument.

 

That's somewhat of an unfortunate deletion. Don't know how much real-time control is available on the CP-4.

If those things are controllable via MIDI CC, then one could put an i-device on it and use some on-screen knobs to control those parameters in real time.

[dazzjazz]

The sliders on the front are multi-purpose. To their right are buttons to select Chorus and Reverb. I imagine you can assign other effects to these per patch and then control the amount with the slider.

[burningbusch]

The sliders on the front are multi-purpose. To their right are buttons to select Chorus and Reverb. I imagine you can assign other effects to these per patch and then control the amount with the slider.

 

Could very well be. Need the manual.

 

Busch.

[LX88]

I listened to the CP4 sound clips.

 

I can't always tell much about acoustic pianos from clips. They sound good overall, but then ,so did the Casio PX 350 clips and when I went to play that I didn't like it at all.

 

The electric piano clips I can tell a little more about. The problem is, in a lot of cases a lot of EP's sound thin. I don't know why... I guess it's easier to get them to "honk" that way, which is what a lot of people like.

 

What some people don't realize is how fat and warm a later model Rhodes can really be. Ditto for something like a Wurlitzer 140.

 

I am not going to judge the CP4 till I actually can play one. The CP5 Rhodes was fairly effective overall, but I often find myself hoping for a little more warmth, particularly in the lower register.

 

So I am hoping that the CP4 has that capability.

[BRW]

 

The "modeling" parameters from the CP-1/5 don't appear to be available. Previously you had access to things like key-off noise level, hammer stiffness, strike position (EPs only), decay and release times. There also appears to be no equivalent to the POWER AMP section.

 

This is very disappointing, if true. How can this be "the best stage piano yet" when they've eliminated features that were a major part of the CP1/CP5, featured heavily in their promotion for instance?

 

I have created some great AP and EP patches on the CP5, that utilize these very options, even if they might not be that important in the night-by-night gigging world (and actually...some of them aren't that useful or realistic to begin with).

[BRW]

Also note that the large assignable knobs (6 on the CP-1, 3 on the CP-5) have been eliminated. These were assignable at the performance level and gave you real-time control over things.

 

That's somewhat of an unfortunate deletion.

 

Also, agreed.

[Michiel]

some other pics from the sweetwater site

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-CP4_detail6.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-CP4_detail18.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-CP4_detail7.jpg

 

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-CP4_detail8.jpg

 

 

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/images/closeup/750-CP4_detail25.jpg

 

 

 

[Pale]

 

One thing I felt was missing from the CP-1/5 is an full range EQ that can be assigned at the voice level and saved with the performance. The Master EQ is a room EQ only. With the CP-4 you can have two insert FXs so one can be EQ and the other modulation, for example. You can, BTW, assign a PreAmp model to one of the insert FXs so that aspect hasn't been lost.

 

Long winded way of saying things are a bit different under the hood. Probably won't affect 99% of the users.

 

Busch.

 

You can do that with CP5. Each of 4 parts has two fx inserts (mod/fx and power amp), and each one of those fx inserts can be a 5 band EQ. So you can actually have 2 EQs assigned to each vocie, and have that saved as a performance.

[BluesTone]

Am I to understand all manner of drum samples and backing rhythms have been scrapped? Why cater for all the usual suspects except one?

 

Maybe to prevent rogue rhythms from ruining one's piano performance on stage?

[orangefunk]

Shame about the rhythms... they were always a nice first step to getting something down. Mind you the RD700GX rhythms were truly awful... but I always thought Yamaha were pretty good in that respect.

 

About rogue rhythms, I had a few nasty incidents with hitting bossa novas and demo buttons when playing live...

[I-missRichardTee]

A lot of us respect your opinion and I would like to know more about why it didn't work for you. Your comments about the CP5 were part of why I bought one six months ago and I really like it. I was considering selling my CP5 to get a CP4 for the lighter weight and seemingly improved piano. Thanks for your feedback.

 

John

 

Thanks John and again sorry to alarm you. Can't say I don't recommend you turning over the CP5 and updating. But I still feel , even after playing the CP4, the CP5 is a very viable and cool ax. In fact if I were to come upon a closeout or barely used one at a great price, I wouldn't hesitate to grab it .

 

Dave, you had advised against buying the demo at GC... but the newly lowered price of $1300, made it irresistible. Basically you feel that sitting in a corner of GC, it was beat upon, and the action is "beat"? I guess in my hurry to get it, I figured action can be replaced. Is that a poor assumption on my part? Too expensive.. or not even doable?

[Moon Zero Two]

The cp5 didn't do anything for me. They won't be missed.

[Marillo]

UK people - DV247 advertising the CP4 at £1699, which is more what I had envisaged doing a basic dollar - sterling conversion.

 

Although I realise it often doesn't translate so easily (see Casio...)

[orangefunk]

good price. Almost half of the Nord Stage 2...

[I-missRichardTee]

The cp5 didn't do anything for me. They won't be missed.

Which 88 do you fancy?

[Dana.]

Posting this again to try to get a response...

 

Athan:

 

To my knowledge, Yamaha has never offered a proper upright sample. Sometimes a grand is too big; sometimes you want a "character piano." Nord currently offers excellent samples of numerous brands of uprights. What's the likelihood of Yamaha offering a U5 (or similar) sample in the future? I think most users would find this to be a welcome addition. Thanks for answering our questions.

[Moon Zero Two]

Sorry bad posting on my part I meant today that the cp5 rhythms didn't do anything for me. I will not miss them on the cp4.

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm kind of surprised that Bosendorfer samples aren't finding their way into any Yamaha products yet, but am not sure how vertically integrated the two companies are at this point.

 

I look forward to hearing the new piano sample (haven't heard the actual acoustic piano yet; just the previous ones from Yamaha). I've tended to only like Yamaha acoustics for pop/rock work and not for jazz (yeah I know most jazz cats use Yamaha these days) or classical, but am more interested in the action.

 

I still haven't had time to walk down the street to the local vendor that has the Kawai so hope to do that soon.

 

I will mostly use Pianoteq in the studio, but at least want the option of an inspiring piano sound to go with an excellent controller feel, when recording, practicing (I won't always want to have to turn my computer on) or gigging. The CP-4 so far looks to be a very attractive board for such purposes, with enough "extras" that I might lean towards it vs. a controller-only board.

 

Kudos to Yamaha for listening. It's still what it is -- a Yamaha Digital Piano -- but it pretty much folds in all of the criticisms us hold-outs had about the CP-5.

[Aidan]

I'm kind of surprised that Bosendorfer samples aren't finding their way into any Yamaha products yet, but am not sure how vertically integrated the two companies are at this point.

 

I sense it's part of Yamaha's brand strategy that their digital pianos are an integral part of the overall piano range, from big acoustics down. Adding the Bosendorfer name into that might arguably confuse the picture and perhaps in some eyes potentially dilute and cheapen the Bosie brand.

[Athan Billias]

Posting this again to try to get a response...

 

Athan:

 

To my knowledge, Yamaha has never offered a proper upright sample. Sometimes a grand is too big; sometimes you want a "character piano." Nord currently offers excellent samples of numerous brands of uprights. What's the likelihood of Yamaha offering a U5 (or similar) sample in the future? I think most users would find this to be a welcome addition. Thanks for answering our questions.

 

Sorry, although we are happy to provide information on current products we typically don't speculate on future products because things change so often with product plans.

 

What we can say is that we have put in the same request to the planning people because an upright piano has a very different vibe to it than a 9' grand !

[Dana.]

Sorry, although we are happy to provide information on current products we typically don't speculate on future products because things change so often with product plans.

Understood.

 

What we can say is that we have put in the same request to the planning people because an upright piano has a very different vibe to it than a 9' grand !

[Tobias Åslund]

The English manuals are now available on the Yamaha site

[The Piano Man]

...very, very few people actually layered anything on their left hand, using the LH exclusively for bass.

 

My layer is piano across the full 88 keys and bass over the bottom end up to E3. To me, this makes perfect sense for so many types of music. Certain pop music tracks aside, I have never understood why people want to lose the left hand of the piano when they layer a bass sound. It would be the equivalent of someone playing bass guitar whilst the guy on the grand piano only uses his right hand. Why do people want that!? I hope the CP4 can still do what I need, retaining piano across the full 88 keys.

 

Having read the manual, I can now answer my own question. The CP4 cannot do what I require it to do. Its zoning capability is alarmingly basic and completely rules it out for me, and I imagine, most serious stage performers. I will now be buying the Kurzweil Artis I guess, even though I am not so keen on its action or weight and bulk. I cannot believe Yamaha has left out the option for decent layering with adjustable key range etc.