Yamaha CP4

[lekanout]

Thanks for the kind words:

16251:

To understand the CP4 ,just a few advice:

-Saving your own setups is made on the performance mode.

You have 128 reinscriptible performance to put your own sounds(one single sound,one split or layers and diverse things.

(You can scroll between the performance pushing the performance/play button and turning the dial)

 

-you can program your own piano sound by selecting one of the 3 pianos you want,and after you can modify all you want in the effect chain.

(to choose the sound you want in the performance mode,just select a performance, select a sound with the 16 category sounds buttons on the right,and scroll with the dial to choose the exact type sound you need to tweak)

 

On the left side of the cp4 panel you have:

-chorus

-reverb

-part effect A

-part effect B

 

So:

1-select your piano type

2-press shift and

-reverb

-chorus

- effect part A

- effect part B

when you do that,you're directly in the edit menu of these effects.

 

3-Choose the effect you want for the piano you selected,and move in the page parameters with the < > or up and down buttons.

 

4-Tweak and modify what ou want.

 

5-press the "store"button,select a performance destination,valid(yes/no)and it´s ok!

 

In the data list pdf available on your CDrom,you will find all the effect parameters you can tweak.

 

If you want to tweak the basic parameters for the sounds,just press edit,and you have to scroll to find the "zone part edit",push enter..

..and after you can find 2 pages in these menus to modify the sound:

1-play mode

2-filter/eg

 

On these menus you can tweak the adsr,filter..lfo...etc etc

Same procedure for saving and it's ok!

 

Hope that helps.

Ps:

Take a moment(just half an hour for exemple)and just try to sit in front of your CP4.

Go in the edit mode,and scrool in the menus(and enter to valid the page,scroll in the parameters,push exit to go back in the previous menus...always the same way).

There are not so much pages on the cp4,so if you learn to navigate in the system you will be more familiar with it and you quickly integrate your keyboard to be more efficient.

 

 

[16251]

Thanks for the kind words:

16251:

To understand the CP4 ,just a few advice:

-Saving your own setups is made on the performance mode.

You have 128 reinscriptible performance to put your own sounds(one single sound,one split or layers and diverse things.

(You can scroll between the performance pushing the performance/play button and turning the dial)

 

-you can program your own piano sound by selecting one of the 3 pianos you want,and after you can modify all you want in the effect chain.

 

On the left side of the cp4 panel you have:

-chorus

-reverb

-part effect A

-part effect B

 

So:

1-select your piano type

2-press shift and

-reverb

-chorus

- effect part A

- effect part B

when you do that,you're directly in the edit menu of these effects.

3-Choose the effect you want for the piano you selected,and move in the page parameters with the < > or up and down buttons.

4-Tweak and modify what ou want.

5-press the "store"button,select a performance destination,valid(yes/no)and it´s ok!

 

In the data list pdf available on your CDrom,you will find all the effect parameters you can tweak.

 

If you want to tweak the basic parameters for the sounds,just press edit,and you have to scrool to find the "zone part edit",enter..

..and after you can find 2 pages in these menus to modify the sound:

1-play mode

2-filter/eg

 

On these menus you can tweak the adsr,filter..lfo...etc etc

Same procedure for saving and it's ok!

 

Hope that helps.

ps:

Just try to sit in front of your Cp4,go in the edit mode,and scrool in the menus(and enter to valid the page,scroll in the parameters,push exit to go back in the previous menus...always the same way).

There are not so much pages on the cp4,so if you learn to navigate in the system you will be more familiar with it and you quickly integrate your keyboard to be more efficient.

 

I'm at work and can't experiment but, if you could, answer me this question (maybe you already did but I do customer service so my attention is limited. I know when I have an EP with stereo vibrato picked I can hit effects button and tweak the effect. Can I save the settings to the same patch? Sometimes these factory patches revert to original settings after leaving sound and coming back to it. I just want to modify the factory sound and worry about setups later. - thanks

[lekanout]

Ok.

Like i said,the structure for saving is on performance mode.

Whatever you modify,if you don't save it in one of the 128 performance presets,you loose what you did.(when you change the performance or turn off the keyboard)

 

That´s the only way(if i'm correct)to save and recall your own settings.

I've started to make my own presets with my own effect programmation,i saved all my work each time in a performance,valid..and all my work is perfectly recall.

 

So if you want to save the settings to the same patch,remember your patch is saved in a performance place.

Just modify what you want and store it on the same performance place and it´s ok!

 

You don't have another choice or another way to do.

[lekanout]

I think maybe i can understand your confusion:

When you go to select a voice in the 16 category voices,you just select a voice included in a performance.

You can't save one of these voice in a user voice bank.

There is just the performance mode for that.

 

That's how yamaha system think about the way to save.

On a workstation,you can often save a voice in a user voice place,or a performance in a user performance place.

On the CP4 whatever you do there is only one place:the performance mode.

 

So don't think"single voice"

But thinkl "single voice in a performance"

I was confused at first too,now it´s ok.

 

Just another thing:

The rd800 is on the same way:

All is saved in a performance too..

[16251]

I think maybe i can understand your confusion:

When you go to select a voice in the 16 category voices,you just select a voice included in a performance.

You can't save one of these voice in a user voice bank.

There is just the performance mode for that.

 

That's how yamaha system think about the way to save.

On a workstation,you can often save a voice in a user voice place,or a performance in a user performance place.

On the CP4 whatever you do there is only one place:the performance mode.

 

So don't think"single voice"

But thinkl "single voice in a performance"

I was confused at first too,now it´s ok.

 

Just another thing:

The rd800 is on the same way:

All is saved in a performance too..

I appreciate this public conversation

 

This is an area of DP's I've never liked. I understand the benefits but here's the thing. These companies always fill up the performance section with what they think we might like. I wish they would just leave a section blank. I always feel compelled to go through all of them, so as not to delete something I might like, but cause that takes time, I stay away from whole process and use the presets since I don't need many varieties.

 

IMO these co's should just leave first 20 or so blank so us consumers can add our favorites. I've found this issue on most boards I've owned

[lekanout]

Yes,i understand what you mean.

Actually ,i'm spending so much time to program and organize my stage configuration.

When you buy the CP4,the factory configuration isn't really usable:

All the 128 performance presets are not well organized.

 

To select quiclky your sounds on stage,the CP4 offer to navigate by group of 16 direct sound acces with the sound category buttons.

(performance presets 1-16,17-32,32-48...etc etc)

You just have to push shift and the performance button at the same time...

You can change the group of 16 direct access sounds by pushing shift and the + or -buttons.

It´s quite good to have 16 direct sound available in 1 push,but yamaha made this "shift and another button push"way to do a little boring for me.

 

But i bought keyboards since 30 years,it´s always the same:

Nothing is perfect.

I dont´t think so much on "how yamaha can do better",but "how can i do my best with this system"

 

While my CP4 is essentially used for keyboards sounds(i have other synth for complex layers)here's my organisation:

-1-16 for pianos(the 3 grands,a bright preset for each,a rock type preset for each,a light compressed preset for each..and some diverse own preset.

16-32 for rhodes(the first 8 for classical type rhodes presets,and the last 8 with my own like some distorded,flange and delays programmation.

-32-48:

the first 8 for wurly presets...the last 8 for clav type presets(all with my own programming

-48-64 for Dx type,and diverse various sounds..

etc etc

 

So if a sound enginner wants me to give him a compress piano or another thing etc et ..i know where are my sounds.

This is my simple and efficient way to do.

But i don't use the CP 4 to recall program changes or complex stage config..

[Theo Verelst]

The presets tell a number of pro-audio story lines, and I'd not be overly joyous to play the CP4 without my significant edits, so it isn't a good picture of the instrument to keep stuck with presets and normal small taste changes.

 

T.

[lekanout]

Well,i was refering more of the preset organisation than how they sounds.

Honestly,i found the factory preset really well done on the CP4.

 

All the acoustic pianos,different eps...etc etc are well designed.

It just sounds right!

The advantage is to be more efficient without spending so much time.

While i modify 80 per cent of the sounds,,when a sound is well done no need to tweak a lot.

 

What i dislike is for exemple the reverb level on factory performances:

A little too much for my taste.

[Theo Verelst]

The organization tells a pro audio story. I'm sure even a humble Yamaha microcontroler programmer could figure out it's sensible to put apianos with apianos and epianos with epianos, that's probably not the motivation.

 

If it sounds so right, probably either you're not used to much, or your monitoring coloring helps you. Try a very high quality headphone amp and a set of cans trusted to be neutral, there's all kinds of edges and strange sounds that do not belong there. Of course in a loud band, that might not always be audible, but it isn't perfect (yet), and has considerable potential to o higher ! The reverb sensitivity is a sign probably however you listen isn't making you "feel" the sound through the excellent reverb adds warmth. Of course it's a sound design choice to want more or a whole lot less reverb, but how it often comes across here makes me think people don't hear the rev tail nice enough to enjoy it, nor do people seem to understand the interaction of excellent effects like in the CP4 with a room/small or big hall natural sound.

 

T.

[lekanout]

Theo:

In my organization,this is not because i want to put e piano with e pianos,ac piano with ac piano...etc etc.

The only thing i want to do is to find the right sound quickly.

I thought a lot about that,and never found a better solution.

 

Fot what you said about my coloring monitor,a listening a very quality headphones..etc etc:

When i say the CP4 sounds right,it's because yamaha engineers found a good compromise with good samples from 2014.

 

When i buy a synth,i never look for all the bad things i can find in the sound.

I'm just trying to adapt my playing to the sound..and that's all!

I'm essentially a live player,i need realistic keyboards sounds for the audience,a good keybed...etc etc

 

My vision is simple:

Less is better for sounding right on stage.(so less reverb for example,or less low frequencies..etc etc)

 

We have some subtiles considerations about sound,samples etc etc in the forums,between us.

...but on stage how the audience can hear your 3000 layers piano samples?

That's why for example i always find a good sound with the kurzweil old samples pianos(i had 1 year gig with a PC3k8)

We are not alone on stage(except for solo gigs)so who cares about the best and bigger piano sound in the world when you have to take your place in the mix with a band?

 

The yam CP4 is well done for helping me to find easilly the good sound for me on stage(playing rock'n roll,pop,soul and blues..)

And all he effect ar really very very good,if you tweak you can find very good vintage emulations like in the past,even if it´s numeric.

 

For top keyboards sounds(samples,effect chain..etc etc),i don't have bad things to say with the CP4.

It's really a good bang for the buck at a good price.

I would have surely pay more without problem for the same CP4 with a little fun to use,less plastic and more metal..and always 17,5kg.

 

[Al Coda]

... Try a very high quality headphone amp and a set of cans trusted to be neutral, there's all kinds of edges and strange sounds that do not belong there. Of course in a loud band, that might not always be audible, but it isn't perfect (yet)

 

Well, you have probably overseen all these instruments are made for players, not testers.

You don´t need a "loud" band to mask artefacts coming from modern technology,- playing it in a mix is more than enough and to my taste it is also good enough performing some solo tunes even it will never be 100% on par w/ the real things.

I think that rules for all the DPs out there, even these which aren´t released up to now.

 

While you´re free to buy gear for analysations, the most perform, hopefully entertain the audience and make some cash.

So,- relatively good looking, good sounding and affordable lightweight/portable toys are welcome. The demand for absolute perfection is 2nd or 3rd row as also some matter of taste.

 

Go into a pro recording studio and you´ll find a audio-optimized room, a maintained grand piano, Rhodes, Wurli, Clavinet & Hammond, amps & leslie and all the mics as well as the recording gear needed to get the real world experience for a rental fee.

No need for these ROMplers and/or digitally emulating instruments in such facilities,- and if, they use software.

 

DPs are made for the home user who cannot afford or has no room for a real grand and all the other stuff mentioned above. They are also for the stage and usable as controllers.

I think that works.

 

A.C.

[lekanout]

Totally agree al coda.

 

I'm convinced today by the sound quality of these stage pianos(like the cp4,kawai or RD800)

I can't imagine a keyboard player with a bad sound from these on stage.

They are full of good parameters and functions to sound good.

if you try to find where are the bad things with samples,you will always find somethîng.

But who cares?

 

Just try it,if your connection is bad buy another better for you..

But all of these are good products and have the proffesional sound for high level gig.

If there is a bad sound,it´s because of the keyboard player,engineer etc etc..

That's what i'm always trying to do if i'm not happy live:

"What i did wrong",not "this keyboard don't sound good"

 

We are in a good period,even some cheap keyboards sounds right now.(the problem is more the keybed quality or other things)

[Synthaholic]

I heard a CP4 paired with an SK1 last night. Sounded good. Very bright, although that may have been the EQ.

[RD57]

So you go to your sets of 16 by hitting shift and performance buttons. ...then to get to your individual performances within your set of 16 you have to hit shift and + or - ??? So there is no way to move from Perf1 to Perf13 unless you scroll up to 13? No buttons for quick moves?

[lekanout]

No don't worry

 

When you hit shift and the performance button on the same time,it´s like you are in a "quick selection voice mode"

After that you're able to switch quickly by pushing 1 of the 16 voice category buttons:

 

So 1 push and direct access to switch between perf 1 and per 13 and direct selection to one of the 16 perfs of the group.

 

It´s just less easily to move between groups of 16:

To move between groups,you have to push shift and +

 

Example:

If you want to move between perf 3 to perf 50:

You push shift and + to scroll between group 1-16 to 17-32,one more time between 17-32 to 33-48,and one more time again from 33-48 to 49-64.

After that(3 push to access to this group)just another push for the direct access to the perf 50.

 

Sorry if i'm boring,hope that helps..

 

 

[Danny Linguini]

Reviving this old relic of a thread because I feel like it.

 

I love this board.

 

As some of you may have seen (and be bloody sick of reading about), I picked up a PX-5S for practicing at home. Sounds nice, much better for practicing than the Kurz SP4-7, but damn that action is heavy. And something about the decay/sustain on the AP's is just not natural sounding. And I cannot get the velocity response to be more real piano-like. It's a nice board for the price with nice sounding pianos, but for me, it can't touch the CP4.

 

Every once in awhile I unbag the CP4 at home to set up sounds for new songs that I want something other than a AP for. So of course while it's out, I hammer away on it. And goddammit what a fantastic feeling and sounding board, especially through the SS3. This is one of those rare finds that when you sit at it, it just inspires you to keep playing. There is absolutely no question in my mind that this was the best board for me and my live gigging, and my only regret is that I don't have another one to keep at home.

 

The one thing I'm kind of upset at myself about is that I haven't really dove (dived?) very deeply into the controls. The worst example of this is what lekanout is talking about in the post just above this one -- I just cannot get the steps to assign and recall quick select voice mode embedded in my crappy memory without RTFM. The reason is mainly that when the board is set up, I'm too busy playing it to want to waste time plowing through the semi-useless manual (it only gets a semi-, because the there's the PX-5S manual that is absolutely totally useless). That is probably my only complaint about this board, that quickly assigning and accessing performance set-ups is not as intuitive (to ME) as I'd like it to be.

 

But setting up the performances themselves is now a breeze, and I can just get lost wading through the banks of pads and synths. And of course there's the pianos. Yamaha knocked this one out of the park.

[AnotherScott]

I picked up a PX-5S...something about the decay/sustain on the AP's is just not natural sounding. And I cannot get the velocity response to be more real piano-like.

I feel the same, and found Mike Martin's pianoaltatk patch to be a substantial improvement...

http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/files/file/5-pianoaltatk/

 

There are also numerous amp envelope and compression/limiting settings you can play with that might help (I don't know which of these Mike may have already employed in his patch).

[MoodyBluesKeys]

@sleepingbear

zzounds has a blemished CP4 for sale right now under $1650. Maybe you could have TWO CP4s (sez the guy with all 3 sizes of PC3).

[Danny Linguini]

@sleepingbear

zzounds has a blemished CP4 for sale right now under $1650. Maybe you could have TWO CP4s (sez the guy with all 3 sizes of PC3).

Ooh, that is tempting. I wonder if they'd take the PX-5S in trade!

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Always pleased to encourage GAS. I have no idea if they accept trades, but don't recall seeing them selling used gear.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Always pleased to encourage GAS. I have no idea if they accept trades, but don't recall seeing them selling used gear.

 

More seriously - since you REALLY seem to like the CP4, why not have one at home, and one for the road? Learn about one, and know both. I liked the PC3X voices (88 key), so added the PC3 (76 key). The PC361 was later when they were on sale. I have the same custom patches on all of them in the same locations. Definitely makes it easier to remember where specific patches are located.

[ApprenticeGary]

Hi, my dear cp4 owner friends, here I have some question.

Is the cp4 keybed like Cp300 keybed?

Here 's my story.I practice on the FP4 in the day and gig on a yamaha G5 grand at night almost daily. The best thing about FP4 is that it takes no warm-up during the transaction between it and the G5 grand. Practicing on the FP4 doesn't make the first 30 mins on the Yamaha grand feel weird. Everything's smooth and natural.

But it's not the case with CP300. A month ago, I rehearsed intensely with a band on a CP300 which belongs to the reheasal room. A responsible and expressive keybed as it has, my first 30 mins of evening gigs was totally ruined , because I had to readjust my touch to the grand piano.

I want to know if the keybed on these newer yamaha models like CP4 are improved to feel more natual. Anyone has the experience of playing some hours on CP4 and then switching to a real grand?

 

[NoLights]

Hello! And welcome to the forum.

 

I'm not sure I know what you mean by "feel weird." I think you've had a hard time going from the heavier action of the CP-300 to the lighter action of the grand.

 

I used to have an FP-4 and I liked the keybed action. As I remember, it was fairly light. I have had several Yamaha keyboards with weighted keys (Motif ES8, S-90, S-70XS -- and a long time ago, a P-80). They all feel similar (though some had "graded hammer action" and some had "balanced hammer action" which makes a little difference). They are not too different from a CP-300. Overall, Yamaha actions tend to be a little bit heavier than the FP-4. My guess is that the G5 grand has a somewhat lighter action as well, which makes the transition between the FP-4 and the grand easier.

 

I now have a CP-4 with a different action -- and a Yamaha P-255 with the more common graded action. The CP-4 is noticeably lighter than the P-255. It takes me some time to get used to the P-255 after playing the CP-4.

 

I think you might find the transition easier with a CP-4. But the only way to tell is to try them for yourself. Maybe you can find a music store with a CP-4 and an S-70XS/S-90XS/P-255 so you can play them side by side.

[Doerfler]

Maybe you can find a music store with a CP-4 and an S-70XS/S-90XS/P-255 so you can play them side by side.

In Beijing? That would be grand.

[Al Quinn]

Hi, my dear cp4 owner friends, here I have some question.

Is the cp4 keybed like Cp300 keybed?

Here 's my story.I practice on the FP4 in the day and gig on a yamaha G5 grand at night almost daily. The best thing about FP4 is that it takes no warm-up during the transaction between it and the G5 grand. Practicing on the FP4 doesn't make the first 30 mins on the Yamaha grand feel weird. Everything's smooth and natural.

But it's not the case with CP300. A month ago, I rehearsed intensely with a band on a CP300 which belongs to the reheasal room. A responsible and expressive keybed as it has, my first 30 mins of evening gigs was totally ruined , because I had to readjust my touch to the grand piano.

I want to know if the keybed on these newer yamaha models like CP4 are improved to feel more natual. Anyone has the experience of playing some hours on CP4 and then switching to a real grand?

 

I practice on a Yamaha C3 grand and gig with a CP4. The transition from one to the other takes no adjustment (for me). This is one of the things I like most about the CP4. I previously had a Nord Stage 2 HA88 and the transition time was so significant I sold it. So, I get what you're asking and can only offer my personal experience. This is so subjective your experience may differ.

[ApprenticeGary]

Big Thankyou to NoLights and Al Quiin !Your information and explanation solved my problem perfectly.

BTW,I tried some new higher-end Yamaha clavinovas(not the top models) recently, to find the action to be more natural than earlier yamahas. In fact, they reminded me a bit of my Roland FP4, bottoming out softer, unlike CP300. I don't know if it's how CP4 feels like.

[WesG]

There is a new Clavinova with wood keys that feels just like the CP4 to me. It even has many of the same sounds. I think it is worth around $3000 US.

[seclusion]

Does anyone know if USB midi will be updated from 32bit to 64bit for Mac for the CP4?

The next Mac OS will not support 32 bit.

My Roland midi Um 101 is also 32 bit.