Yamaha CP4

[Aidan]

Welcome to the forum, dxb.

 

Although both of the models you mention have a decent set of supplementary sounds in addition to acoustic and electric pianos, you should be aware that this isn't their main focus.

 

If what you really need is a keyboard with the widest sonic palette possible, then you'd be better looking at a 'workstation' style keyboard such as the Yamaha Motif series, the Korg Kronos or Kurzweil PC3K series.

 

For orchestral instrumentation, of the three mentioned above, the Kurzweil is widely acknowledged as the best - it's a staple of orchestra pits in musical theatre, for example.

 

However, for acoustic piano, it's also the weakest of the three in most people's books. In fact, with the exception of the Kronos, none of these offer piano voices to compare with the CP4 or 700NX. And none of the three offer keybeds that feel as 'authentic' as the two you were initially thinking of.

 

Given your background, I'm going to guess for now that the piano sound and feel is going to be your priority. In which case, the CP4 for me has the edge - wooden keys, much lighter than the Roland (in case you ever decide to/need to gig with it somewhere), and a large number of sounds from the Motif series (although, based on my experience with the earlier CP5, many probably don't sound quite as impressive as their Motif equivalents, probably due to a lack of the 'variable articulation' engine present in the workstation).

 

Hope that helps!

[dxb]

Thanks a lot Aidan! That really helps!

 

And you are right, for me the piano sound is priority. I tried both CP4 and Roland700 and piano sounds of both are just fine (in CP4 a bit metallic in the lower keys).

 

As a rule, I perform at the venues, were there is always a grand piano, I usually do not bring my instrument along- so, the weight wouldn't be important to me.

 

So, in terms of realism of the sound of acoustic instruments CP4 and Roland are equal?

 

Is there any program existing, which could help one to improve the realism of the sound of recorded instrumental track? (Sorry, I'm a girl with classical background and absolutely incompetent in this field :-)

 

 

[Ashville.Guru]

Is there any program existing, which could help one to improve the realism of the sound of recorded instrumental track?

The Roland Integra is an external module that will add very authentic and expressive accoustic sounds to any digital piano. This is the simplest and most practical solution in your context. This works through MIDI, i.e. you play the sounds from your DP.

 

It will not improve pre-recorded tracks, and I don't think there's anything that can do that practically.

 

- Guru

[Aidan]

The Integra would be a great addition to either of the two pianos (though possibly it would make more sense to go with the Yamaha to avoid duplication and give more variety of sounds), however, the OP didn't state her budget and I suspect she won't want to be also paying another chunk of money right away for a module.

 

Dxb, if you're not going to move them, I think the choice is less clear between the Yamaha and the Roland and must come down then to personal preference - which feels and sounds better to you.

 

As I said, both have a nice range of 'other' sounds to at least get you started but I would predicate my choice first and foremost on piano sound and feel. Further down the line, as you're not gigging it, you could always add software instruments like the Vienna Symphonic Library (click here for demos), which is far superior to anything available in hardware.

 

I'm interested in your comment about the lower end of the CP4 sounding metallic - this is an issue I personally find with the Roland Supernatural Grands (although I've yet to try the CP4 in person, I should add).

 

However, you are presumably aware that there are three separately sampled pianos in the Yamaha - a CFX (the new and default sound, I think), a CIIIFS and an S6 7ft grand? It might be worth having a good dig into the Yamaha to make sure you've auditioned all three models before jumping the other way.

 

Final thought: if this is going to live at home permanently, and you have the space and budget, perhaps you might be happier with a console ("furniture") style digital piano. For practice purposes, one button turns everything on, it'll feel much sturdier and the amplification will have been tailored to the piano.

 

However, getting to the same level of sound and feel is more expensive in that route, for obvious reasons. But it may be worth looking at if you have the budget.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Another possibility would be the new Kurzweil Artis - which combines many of the PC3 series sounds with a new and considerably more detailed group of acoustic piano patches.

[AnotherScott]

if you would have to choose between Yamaha CP4 and Roland 700NX in terms of the most natural/realistic sounds of classical instruments (piano, strings, flute etc), which one you prefer?

...

I tried both CP4 and Roland700 and piano sounds of both are just fine (in CP4 a bit metallic in the lower keys).

You are comparing two models that are both well regarded. The piano sound of the CP4 vs. RD700NX is a matter of personal taste. It isn't a case of "majority rules" -- even if, on a given day, you happened to get responses from 4 people here who preferred the Yamaha and only 1 who preferred the Roland (or vice versa), neither is right, and only one person's opinion matters. If after you evaluate them yourself you don't have a strong preference, then you would decide based on other factors. But you should listen to them through the same playback system, preferably a quality set of headphones, to eliminate the variability of how they sound through particular amps.

 

As for orchestral instruments, the CP4 includes a subset of Yamaha's Motif XS sounds, so that should generally be better than the RD700NX. Roland's better orchestral sounds ("SuperNatural") are not used in the RD700NX.

 

Is there any program existing, which could help one to improve the realism of the sound of recorded instrumental track?

If you're recording into a computer, you should record both the audio and the MIDI. By recording the MIDI as well, you could choose to replace the audio sound with a new sound you may prefer in the future. If these are for tracks you've already recorded, and you did not record MIDI, if the parts are single-line parts (a violin part, a flute part, etc., where only one note is played at once), you may be able to use a program that can generate MIDI from those recordings, and then you could use that MIDI information to generate an audio track of a new sound playing the same notes. I know such programs exist, but I have no personal experience with them and don't know how well they work.

[I-missRichardTee]

dxb Thumbs up on Kurzweil in general, esp for piano plus orchestral.

Your budget?

 

[Aidan]

MBK, good call on the Artis, though I've not played it yet. No idea how available the Kurzweil brand is in the UAE. Tee, I honestly think a classical pianist would be unimpressed with the PC3 pianos compared with the current top end Roland and Yamaha models. Sits OK in the mix, but not a soloist's piano, IMO. The Fatar actions on the Kurzweils are also some way behind the cutting edge, unfortunately.

[allan_evett]

 

Truth be told, Allan and I have been in cahoots, shrinking and enlarging our Kronoses. God that doesn't sound good....

 

Sorry for spilling the beans, brother Allan, but it is fun to horse-trade every once in a while....win-win.

 

Brilliant, man; love it !

 

Actually, I blame brother Bobby here; he's the one who tossed out the Kronos 61 / CP4 idea a while back - and it was an 'Aha ! ' moment.

 

I've done one gig with the CP4, plus some digging in at home. It's an extremely well done, stage workhorse. Action-wise, it's likely the best stage piano I've played. While the pianos offer a lot a variety, and are highly playable, the electric pianos are a huge, step-up for my live, sonic arsenal. So I'm not missing the Nord ep's, - at least not too much (that new, amped Wurli is a monster, though; the Yamaha Wurli is not, quite, that ).

 

Overall, the CP4's a solid, compact piece o' kit. I'll add to the discussion as I spend more time with it.

[Dana.]

If I were a classical pianist and needed a digital substitute, I would find a keyboard with an action I liked and supplement it with True Keys.

[Aidan]

Curse you, Evett!

[Aidan]

If I were a classical pianist and needed a digital substitute, I would find a keyboard with an action I liked and supplement it with True Keys.

 

Or indeed, any other software piano of your choosing. But I get the feeling dxb is looking for an all-in-one, turn it on and play solution at the moment and is perhaps a bit intimidated by technology (I trust I'm not being unfair or patronising, dxb, just the impression I got from previous remarks!)

[dxb]

Dear ALL!

Thank you so much for your suggestions!

 

Initially, my preference was for CP4 (based on the touch feeling), but wasn't sure if I would miss a lot of sound opportunities by not taking Roland.

 

I also noted some other great instruments suggested- Kurzweil, Korg, Nord. Unfortunately, these brands are not available here. Even Yamaha and Roland have a waiting period to be delivered, especially newer models. I think, it's due to lack of demand. As a rule, in UAE gigging musicians bringing the instruments from their home countries...

 

So, I think, I'm going for CP4. I'll keep you updated once I have it!

 

Thank you once again!

 

 

 

[Marillo]

dxb...you will love the CP4. I have just moved from Roland to Yamaha and in making my choice the action of the board was my priority. I'm of the view that most of the samples in the top stage pianos are ALL perfectly usable, and any differences are a matter of taste.

 

So although the Yamaha's sound is brighter than the Roland's lovely warm Supernatural, I'm getting used to it and any qualms are far offset by the fantastic action.

[Moonglow]

 

Truth be told, Allan and I have been in cahoots, shrinking and enlarging our Kronoses. God that doesn't sound good....

 

Sorry for spilling the beans, brother Allan, but it is fun to horse-trade every once in a while....win-win.

 

Brilliant, man; love it !

 

Actually, I blame brother Bobby here; he's the one who tossed out the Kronos 61 / CP4 idea a while back - and it was an 'Aha ! ' moment.

Now see what the hell you started here, Bobby? And then Allan's "shrinking Kronos" thread got me to thinking....

 

I'm presently using a Jupiter-80 with my Nord Stage (classic) and a small rack to compensate for the lack of rompler-type patches in the Stage. But I'm getting really, really, tired (or getting really, really old...) of carrying and setting up that damn rack. So my goal is to see if I can get the JP-80 and Kronos 88 to work as a two-keyboard solution. I keep telling myself that something is wrong (i.e., with me) if I can't somehow get this to work.

 

Sorry for the side-bar gentlemen (and ladies), carry on!

[Bobadohshe]

Now see what the hell you started here, Bobby?

 

Dude, I blame YOU. You're the one that started me on the quest to have the most streamlined sexy setup with this thread (alas the pic links now seem broken).

[Moonglow]

Now see what the hell you started here, Bobby?

 

Dude, I blame YOU. You're the one that started me on the quest to have the most streamlined sexy setup with this thread (alas the pic links now seem broken).

LOL!

 

 

P.S. Said rack is the aforementioned rack I am now trying to eliminate.

[Theo Verelst]

Maybe one day the Kurzweils can do just about the same sounds as the CP4 (which when you know how to edit the presets and effects can be exceedingly stunning).

[agitato]

How does the yamaha cp4 compare overall (the 10 lb difference and speakers or lack thereof, aside) with the kawai es7?

[PJHarmonic]

 

Interesting. You folks have saved me lots of time by doing what I'm striving to get done. I need a super-streamlined setup--one that is up-to-date. I've been (and still am) carrying my trusty debut model Kurzweil K2500 all over everywhere since it came out. Paired with my even older Korg O1/W-fd for gigs requiring left-hand bass (which I have to do a lot) and running through a Bose L1 w/double-subs, I have been satisfied with what sound and capability I have available. I need the K2500 for organ. Yet, I also needed the other sounds--EPs, strings, synth leads, all of itincluding when I use it for bass while using a lead, brass, clav or string on the O1/W. (I switch between which unit will play bass, and which will play the sound I'll have I'll have up front.)

 

That said, I took some trips overseas and got stuck with some crappy units as my keyboard in those towns. (Sometimes good stuff, too.) I didn't like being a victim of those places, so I set out to find what would work in a portable sense. A couple of years ago, I took a bold step and got a Muse Research Receptor 2 (with Komplete 6, although I was expecting 5), a software synth unit that I could bring to gigs, and have those sounds available. I would pre-program what I needed, and take that to Wherever and run MIDI into whatever keyboard they provided.

 

Well, the Receptor adds substantially to my runaround rig in terms of more cables, and it is best used with a monitor connected (so..still more cables), and I haven't been going overseas much in the past few years. So the Receptor is being studio gear now. I still needed to solve a major problem: gigs where I just needed a light (not so heavy) piano-like keyboard and an amp.

 

Almost done. Last year, I tried to solve the light piano problem by checking out--long-distance--the NumaPiano by StudioLogic. Joey D had been pumping the NumaOrgan, and Greg Phillinganes was endorsing the piano. Both had the same light weight23 lbs. I listened to videos, and read some reviews. Then I pulled the trigger a little over a year ago and ordered it without ever having played it!

 

I've been using the NumaPiano for all that time now. It's interesting. I like it, but I hate it. The quirky white frame is actually kinda hip, although I didn't think so at first. But it takes 10-15 seconds for the thing to kick all its software on and start up! This, in a keyboard that seems to have some weird software issues, and will occasionally cut itself off in the middle of a gig!

 

Long story short, Im now looking at the Yamaha CP4. Unlike the Numa, which only has 2 pianos, 1 Rhodes, 1 Wurly, one of those DX-historical smooth-jazz bell Rhodes (and a Clav, a string, a voice pad, 2 organs, an acoustic bass and 1 electric bass), the CP4 boasts an arsenal of pianos, a cache of Rhodes sounds, and lots of others. And everyone is talking about how the touch is on the CP4. The touch on my NumaPiano is sometimey; sometimes its fine, but if I double-up on notes Im asking for trouble. The Numa has helped me to concentrate on my execution, but Im at a point where I just want to play what feels right, and not have to worry about any inherent nuttiness from my keyboard.

 

My idea for a setup right now is the possibility of the CP4. Strangely enough, Im also looking at the Yamaha DXR15, a powered speaker. It weighs under 50 lbs, has a very deep bass, about 1000W, two ¼-in. inputs as well as a mic plug, and that will work for when I may need to play keyboard with keyboard bass in a small, quickie combo setup. The Bose, as great as it sounds, can require too much lifting and moving for a 1-hour gig with a vocalist at a small party or gathering. Im hoping the CP4 has a couple of decent basses in it that I can use. Ive been using the electric bass in the Numa recently (because I have an Eb sticking in the lower register of the O1/W), and, surprisingly, I can tweak a pretty phat bass tone out of that thing!

 

This is enough for an opener. So will come back and check your summaries about the CP4, and see who in the Detroit area (GC, are you with me?) will order one in-house so I can check it out. But you guys have made me hopeful that this will work out. And, yes, touch is major. A good sounding keyboardNord?can crap you out, mentally, when the touch is not up to par. Ive played whole gigs with the Nord, and the touch on that keyboard does not impress me. Ive sat-in on my friends rigs that included various Nord models, including the Stage 2, various Electro models, and even one of the Nord Pianos. Something about the touch doesn't do it for me. AnywayIll lurk on.

 

PJHarmonic

 

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

Now see what the hell you started here, Bobby?

 

Dude, I blame YOU. You're the one that started me on the quest to have the most streamlined sexy setup with this thread (alas the pic links now seem broken).

LOL!

 

 

P.S. Said rack is the aforementioned rack I am now trying to eliminate.

 

It's the circle of (gear) life.

[agitato]

Do you think the acoustic piano sounds of the cp4 are superior to the es7?

[Pianolando]

I'm thinking about getting one of these but I'm wondering about the split capabilities. Does anyone know if it's possible to use a layer as the left split and a single sound as the right one.?

 

What I'm thinking is for instance:

Piano layered with pad (with the pad controlled by the control pedal) on the left side and high strings or a synth lead on the right side.

 

Surely this should be doable? Thankful for any user input!

[kazantsakis]

According to the owner's manual (page 27), the "supported part configurations" include: "Playing two overlaid Voices at the right side of the keyboard and a different Voice at the left (layering and splitting; CP4 STAGE only)".

 

But I don't know whether this means you could play two overlaid voices on the LEFT side of the keyboard, as you want to do.

[MonksDream]

One way to accomplish that on some boards is to set up the sound stacks (2 on one side and 1 on the other) then swap their effective ranges, i.e. make the Right side C1 to C3 and the left one C#3 and up.

[lekanout]

hi guys.

I've just sold my Rd 700 nx,and now îm looking about the CP4 or the new Rd 800.

I consider these 2 stages pianos very good honestly..

But i've got a headache!

-the cp4 appeals me with the good pianos and i love the yamaha rhodes..(wich is very important for me)

Weight is a good advantage.

I've just tried the cp4 15 minutes,and had a great feeling with the keybed,not as lighter as the CP5(too much and that´s why i choose the roland with a keybed near perfect for me.)

So yamaha is on par with the rd 800 for the keybed i think now.

 

The problems on the cp4 are:

No modelisation parameters,ergonomy is not so good,too much plastic than roland..

 

I feel the Rd 800 better than the yam on the ergonomy(by far,the roland is near than my ex rd700 nx so i know why i feel that..)wich is more fun,easier and clear.

 

To resume,i love the piano on the two,but the rhodes seems more dirty and vintage on the yam.

All the rest i prefer roland.

 

What do you think about the new eps evolution on the rd800(because roland says it is an evolution from my old 700 nx),is there something who tried it and can compare with the cp4?

 

I really don't know what to take...

If eps and weight are the essential:cp4..

But all the rest yamaha miss something..

 

if you have some thought about that tell me i apreciate:-)(i will go to try them in shop soon but the cp4 seems rare in stock)

 

I did a google search,saw all the demos,it seems there is not so much information about stage piano,and not so much comparaison between them..

The roland Rd 800 threads are not so much too.

[Jazz+]

Play fast much?

[lekanout]

I'm gigging with 2 bands blues rock/southern rock 70,and i mostly play live with a nord piano 2 and nord electro 4.

 

But the nord keybed isn't as pianistic and heavy...

So i need a second stage piano with a better keybed for pure piano feel.I never practise on the nord but on my last roland and the next i have to choose.

I don't play classical music,just rock/blues/pop....

 

So all the fast blues and and rock´n roll type licks...

I had some old rd from roland and always loved them.

It was a good surprise with the CP4 because i found on the yam near the feeling i had from a long time with roland.

Dillemma!

[Kawai James]

lekanout, I would recommend also trying the Kawai MP7. Lower price than the Roland or Yamaha, yet voted the best all-round board in a recent comparison of stage pianos by 'Keyboards' magazine in Germany.

 

Cheers,

James

x

[lekanout]

Yes james,i agree.

I will try it if it is availaible in the shop

I have so much respect for kawai,looked the MP11,but the weight is a problem..

I forgot the MP7...i have to test it!

Thanks.