Yamaha CP4

[Joe Muscara]

We looked at the PX-5S, and loved the sounds, but the set- up seemed very complex, and we're not mad about the tiny screen. Maybe once you got used to it, it wouldn't be so bad. The other two haven't quite reached the shops around here yet!

 

Neither of has had much experience with Yamaha, but have seen horror stories about their user interface, that's why we were drawn to the CP4.

 

There are two shops within 50 miles which we hope will have all three boards in stock at the same time, but it will,probably be a couple of months yet. We want piano action, good piano and other sounds, easy operation in a PX5s to CP4 price range, Organ isn't important, as we will have the Mojo, and weight doesn't matter, as it's for home use.

 

You wouldn't think it would be difficult in this day and age, but it's a nightmare. We downloaded the PX-5S handbook, and can't even find layers and splits in the menu! That's why the CP4 looked so attractive, just press a button!

 

However, at the end of the day, the sound is paramount, so we'll wait and see when stock arrives.

 

SSM and Keyboard Girl

I wouldn't say the PX-5S is complex, and the small screen actually does very well. You can quickly get the hang of this board. Layers and splits are very powerful and not terribly hard. A quick dig on one of the Casio sites (casiomusicforums.com or the Facebook group) will turn up answers. Like this one about layers.

 

http://priviapro.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/creating-a-quick-layer-on-the-px-5s/

[J Graul]

I thought hard about the MOXF8 before settling on the CP4. But since my CP4 will be sitting right beneath my PC361, I have no need for other sounds outside of pianos/e.pianos. My choice was based on the reviews here of the keyboard.

[Six-string-man]

 

SSM and Keyboard Girl

I wouldn't say the PX-5S is complex, and the small screen actually does very well. You can quickly get the hang of this board. Layers and splits are very powerful and not terribly hard. A quick dig on one of the Casio sites (casiomusicforums.com or the Facebook group) will turn up answers. Like this one about layers.

 

http://priviapro.wordpress.com/2013/04/09/creating-a-quick-layer-on-the-px-5s/

 

Maybe it isn't complex to you, maybe we're just thick! Thanks very much for the link Joe, but surely stuff like this should be in the manual!

 

We certainly haven't ruled the Casio out, we're just waiting to A/B it. Or maybe that should be A/B/C it, seeing as there are still three contenders.

 

SSM

[Joe Muscara]

Have you looked at both Casio manuals? There's one that's the manual in the box, and the more in-depth one they list as the tutorial. I'm not saying either is great, but the second one has more stuff.

 

Personally, I think a lot of people are finding some basic info like this online, and then they're off to the races.

[mate stubb]

Forget the Casio manuals, and programming on the board itself.

 

The data editor for the PC is awesome, you can learn your way around 3 or 4 screens and everything is laid out right there.

[mate stubb]

We have just ordered a Mojo, and are looking for an 88 key something-or-other to sit underneath it, We ruled out the Motif and Kronos, they are just too expensive,

 

We had come down to the PX-5S, the CP4, or the MOXF, A different one seems to be flavour of the month every day!

 

PX-5S under Mojo is my current rig. Take a look in the stand construction thread for a pic.

[Bif_]

Based upon my experience with the Motif and CP instrument series, here's what I think you're going to find.

 

1) The CP4 will offer the best piano-playing/sound experience. On previous models in the CP series, piano's were primary and other sounds were a distant secondary. This seems to be a marketing strategy. It kind of makes sense. If the CP4 had a Motif under the hood, they probably wouldn't sell any 88 key Motif's.

2) The MOXF is the only workstation of the three boards you're considering. It will offer the greatest breadth/variety of sounds and would be a great choice if you want to sequence songs on it.

3) The PX5S offers a very good piano playing/sound experience but it won't be as good as the CP4. In general, the non-piano sounds won't be as good as those on the MOXF. It does offer some great layered/arps that are quite unique. 256 note polyphony is very cool but probably doesn't matter for how you'll use the instrument.

 

I think they are all very good instruments. It's just a matter of what specific area you're focused upon and how much money you want to spend.

 

My .02. Good luck.

 

Greg

[AnotherScott]

The other Motif sounds described as "based on our flagship Motif" sounded a bit weak and watered down compared to what I recall from the actual Motif.

 

This is a huge disappointment to me, and may push me in the direction of the PX-5S or MOXF. I would not be happy shelling out that amount of cash for something where half the sounds are sub-standard.

Sounds being largely subjective, it is certainly possible that you may find some sounds on the PX-5S to be better than some sounds on the CP4. But it is also likely that you will find many CP4 sounds to be superior to what's on the PX-5S. From this perspective, the MOXF may be the "safest" choice, since you can load new sounds into the flash cards, so if there's some sound you need that isn't doing it for you, odds are that there will be some way to get a better version of it into the board. But then you have by most accounts the weakest action of the three. You'll just have to weigh all the elements: piano/EP sounds, additional sounds, action, interface, editability/customizability... obviously there's no right answer for everyone.

 

We looked at the PX-5S, and loved the sounds, but the set- up seemed very complex, and we're not mad about the tiny screen. Maybe once you got used to it, it wouldn't be so bad.

...

Neither of has had much experience with Yamaha, but have seen horror stories about their user interface, that's why we were drawn to the CP4.

The CP4 will be the most straight-forward. I would say that the MOX series is operationally simpler than the PX-5S. Both require spending some time with them to get them set up the way you want, but I think you can get farther without a manual on the MOX than you can on the Casio (which is a good thing, since the Yamaha manuals can be so obtuse). The bigger (and therefore more informative) screen helps, as do the buttons which are more numerous, better laid out, and more clearly labeled.

[Stokely]

I thought hard about the MOXF8 before settling on the CP4. But since my CP4 will be sitting right beneath my PC361, I have no need for other sounds outside of pianos/e.pianos. My choice was based on the reviews here of the keyboard.

 

This will hopefully be my rig in the (not too distant) future. Of course I'll need to play the cp4 if I can find one, but I think it will perfectly complement my pc361, which can continue to be a "do everything" board for quick/tight gigs. Can't wait to try this thing out. Or I might get a used cp50 if I spot one, quite a difference in $$ and maybe not *too* drastic a difference in quality (opinions welcome!)

[AnotherScott]

Or I might get a used cp50 if I spot one, quite a difference in $$ and maybe not *too* drastic a difference in quality (opinions welcome!)

If action is a big part of what you're looking at, the CP50 action will be like the CP40, not the CP4.

[Dana.]

Or I might get a used cp50 if I spot one, quite a difference in $$ and maybe not *too* drastic a difference in quality (opinions welcome!)

If action is a big part of what you're looking at, the CP50 action will be like the CP40, not the CP4.

Having played all three yesterday, I don't agree. The CP50 action is closer to the CP4 than it is to the CP40. The CP50 is GH, whereas the CP40 is GHS (also used in the MOX8, MOXF8, P105, and P35). As I reported above, the CP4 action feels like the CP1/CP5 but with a heft and landing more like the CP33 (which uses GH).

[voxpops]

The CP50 action is closer to the CP4 than it is to the CP40. The CP50 is GH, whereas the CP40 is GHS (also used in the MOX8, MOXF8, P105, and P35).

According to Yamaha, the CP40 action is "88-key Graded Hammer (GH) keyboard." This is the same action as the CP50, P-155 and CP33, IIRC.

[I-missRichardTee]

Cp5 is cool.

[Dana.]

The CP50 action is closer to the CP4 than it is to the CP40. The CP50 is GH, whereas the CP40 is GHS (also used in the MOX8, MOXF8, P105, and P35).

According to Yamaha, the CP40 action is "88-key Graded Hammer (GH) keyboard." This is the same action as the CP50, P-155 and CP33, IIRC.

Yikes. I played a CP40 last night and it felt more like GHS than GH, and I have played both actions extensively on all the boards mentioned. If it is indeed GH, Yamaha has tweaked it, perhaps to get the weight down and so that's why it feels more like GHS. I did notice that it felt smoother than the MOX8 and other boards that use GHS.

[Six-string-man]

Based upon my experience with the Motif and CP instrument series, here's what I think you're going to find.

 

1) The CP4 will offer the best piano-playing/sound experience. On previous models in the CP series, piano's were primary and other sounds were a distant secondary. This seems to be a marketing strategy. It kind of makes sense. If the CP4 had a Motif under the hood, they probably wouldn't sell any 88 key Motif's.

2) The MOXF is the only workstation of the three boards you're considering. It will offer the greatest breadth/variety of sounds and would be a great choice if you want to sequence songs on it.

3) The PX5S offers a very good piano playing/sound experience but it won't be as good as the CP4. In general, the non-piano sounds won't be as good as those on the MOXF. It does offer some great layered/arps that are quite unique. 256 note polyphony is very cool but probably doesn't matter for how you'll use the instrument.

 

 

Thanks Greg, that's really helpful. I suppose we won't really know until we manage to "audition" them all. How would you rate the piano/other sounds on the MOXF? We are quite unfamiliar with modern Yamaha sounds. KG used to have an old MM6, and a lot of the sounds on that were fairly cheesy IMHO.

 

SSM

[scales]

What type of sounds other than AP/EP are you interested in? I can scroll through mine and see what's there if you like.

[Dana.]

Those pipe organs better be good in the CP4 or that could be a deal breaker.

 

I also need the capability to split the keyboard to have a Moog bass in LH and good cutting through harpsichord in the RH. I'm doing this Bach-Scarlatti tribute band but we're trying to give it an urban flavor.

 

If it can't do that, well later for it...

[Six-string-man]

What type of sounds other than AP/EP are you interested in? I can scroll through mine and see what's there if you like.

 

That's good of you, thanks. Basically, everything! We want an all-round board, to complement the Mojo. AP and EP are obviously paramount, but strings, brass and guitars are also important.

 

SSM & KG

[Stokely]

Back on the feel thing, the only one out of cp5/cp50/cp33/cp4/cp5 actions I've been able to try is the cp50--and only because Sam Ash had a p155. I liked it, so as long as the newer boards have that (or better) I'm sure I'll be happy. Not sure what the s90xs has but I like it too. I *don't* care much for the action in the mox8/p105 but I'd expect that is not the same as the cp4. With the price difference relatively close between cp4 and cp40, if I buy new at all it will probably be the cp4.

 

Besides action, how are the non-piano sounds on the cp50? EP, clavs, strings, horns would be the main ones I'd use.

[AnotherScott]

Of the ones you mentioned...

 

MOX8/P105 = GHS (also MOX8F, P35, P85, P95, and some DGX)

 

Up from there:

 

CP33/CP50/CP40/P155 = GH (also CP300)

And I believe that the S90XS is similar, though it is not graded.

 

And at the top, the NW actions:

 

Graded = CP4

Not graded = CP5 (also CP1)

 

There has been uncertainty about whether the GHS actions in two different GHS boards are necessarily identical, or similarly whether every GH action is the same... but they are at least roughly in the ballpark, compared to the boards with completely different action designations.

[WesG]

FWIW - I played a P35 and a P105 back to back not long ago, and was astounded that the P35 felt much better.

 

The next day I played a different P35 and P105 back to back -- and thought the P105 felt better - and that it felt the same as the MOX8 at that store.

 

I played a DGX650 the other night. It felt different again.

 

None of these are SIGNIFICANTLY different from each other. I can't explain my first set of observations, but I suspect at least that Yamaha has different key tops for some lines, even if they are using the same action.

 

FWIW my daily driver is a well-worn DGX 620.

 

BTW, I played the CP5 at a rehearsal one night not long ago when I was filling in for someone. All I can say is WOW that thing is AWESOME.

[16251]

Played CP4 at Guitar Center. The piano was on the highest tear with no speakers, no sustain. Asked for some headphones and a sustain pedal. DP too close to wall so headphones with adapter would not work, pedal had wrong polarity. After giving rep sh*t for everything I just mentioned, he finally got on same page and brought a stand, sustain pedal that it came with and some nice headphones. It's always the same story at GC!

 

None of the samples blew me away with eq flat, but I was able to make them all sound pretty good with some tweaking. I thought the EP sample was not even when you really spanked the note. The hardest hit seemed too loud -reminded me of P80, but sound was closer to real Rhodes. Couldn't find a way to add stereo panning, which is a benchmark, when I try a new DP.

 

I like the action very much. The plastic seemed very cheap looking. I only spent about 10 minutes and plan to revisit. Would I consider parting with my Roland FP4, probably not considering the $2200 price and no internal speakers. I wish they could of made the effects easier to find and add. I'm not a fan of Nord sounds, but you gotta love the ease of adding effects to a sound.

[LX88]

16251 -

 

I am a Roland "Superior Grand" ( RD300GX ) owner, so I am curious as to how the CP-4 stacks up against that. I really like the older Roland Rhodes and Wurli. Any comparisons to those would be of interest to me, because I like the Roland weight, construction and sound pretty well.

[Charleston]

It's always the same story at GC!

 

 

Sounds like a good story. They set everything up for you to demo it the way you desire, for the 10 whole minutes.

[The_Star_Guy]

Here is the Support page from the Yamaha website describing the various actions and their respective differences.

 

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/musical-instruments/keyboards/digitalpianos/pf85/54/3279/What_is_the_difference_between_the_natural_wood_NW_graded_hammer_GH_3_graded_hammer_GH_and_graded_hammer_standard_GHS_keyboards/?current_page_id=3&sort=undefined&type=

[Stokely]

I've noticed some weird "action perception" stuff myself...the p105b I tried felt better (and different) than the mox8 to me yet I understand they have the same action. It may have been pre-conception (I didn't know at the time they were the same) and of course there may be differences in programming, sounds/fx, and perhaps the velocity curve settings that influence how you think it "feels".

 

Enough talk, I need to find these things!

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I've noticed some weird "action perception" stuff myself...the p105b I tried felt better (and different) than the mox8 to me yet I understand they have the same action. It may have been pre-conception (I didn't know at the time they were the same) and of course there may be differences in programming, sounds/fx, and perhaps the velocity curve settings that influence how you think it "feels"

and also possibly whether you're playing through internal speakers...?

[LX88]

I also thought that the Yamaha P-35 felt different that the P:-105, but in a good way. It may have something to do with how the sounds respond to the keys.

 

For whatever reason, I like the P-35 quite a bit. It may be my favorite of the lightweight Yamahas with speakers. I just like the way they voiced the tones.

 

If there was some way to run this with a subwoofer and the internal speakers at the same time, you might be surprised by it. This is the way my Yamaha Nocturne works,and the sub really warms things up. I like it quite a bit and don't think it needs any improvement.

 

Sometimes I can even be dissapointed with some fairly good acoustic pianos because the Nocturne sounds so even and good.

[AnotherScott]

If there was some way to run this with a subwoofer and the internal speakers at the same time, you might be surprised by it.

Yes, I'm always disappointed when a piano with internal speakers doesn't provide some way to keep using them while sending a signal out to anything else.

[scales]

"The plastic seemed very cheap looking." Well I agree but after transporting the CP-4 I'm not complaining. I'm selling my Motif XS-8 and getting a small synth to replace it. After lugging it around for the first time in a long time it felt like 100 lbs. compared to the CP-4. I love the metal chassis on the XS-8 and CP-5 but there has to be a compromise somewhere when it comes to weight. With the cry from keyboard players for lighter keyboards, I think the days of nice metal chassis keyboards is coming to an end. But then again, Nord makes a fairly light keyboard with a nice metal body and wooden end pieces.