Yamaha CP4

[AnotherScott]

Actually, we don't even know that those three faders can be used to simultaneously control the volume of even three zones. The functionality isn't clear just from the picture. Until we get more info, we don't really know exactly how those faders work (what they are assigned to, what alternate functions they may be able to perform). So I think its premature to complain about it now. I'm sure there will be plenty to complain about later. ;-)

 

As for pretending, I know we were both being a bit facetious, but I was also trying to make a point. I can imagine that, in developing a board, an engineer can say "hey, if we just do such-and-such, we can enable a cool extra function, and it won't add anything to the cost." The answer from a supervisor could be either (a) "don't do it, because if the feature is there, then people will complain that there's no separate front panel control for it, and we can't add a front panel control without increasing cost, and we're already right at the edge of where we want our costs to be" or (b) "sure, put it in... it's free, and it's better to have a limited version of that feature than not to have the feature at all." I'd prefer the latter. There are probably lots of nice things they could do that would minimally to the cost, but they do have to draw lines somewhere. So in this hypothetical scenario, the board would still be good regardless of whether it is 3 zones with dedicated controls or 4 zones without a dedicated control for the fourth zone... but out of those two possibilities, I think the second is better. I guess I'm more of a glass half full guy. ;-)

[Moon Zero Two]

one neat thing about the CP5 is that it has five zones with knobs and on off buttons - of course that is for the internal sounds (4) and a mic - I have not tried to use it as a midi controller, this is my live performing board. However having the four knobs to adjust the level of the splits and layers is very useful.

 

I want to know if the music rack I had to buy separately for the CP5 will fit the CP4. And honestly why isn't the music rack included on all models, I mean come on.

[AnotherScott]

And honestly why isn't the music rack included on all models, I mean come on.

All the people who are using the piano as the bottom board of a two-tier gig setup have no need for it. Heck, the people who opt for a Motif don't even have the option of a music stand. Glass half full. ;-)

[Bif_]

Sometimes I just fail to understand the decisions that are made dusting product development.

 

Here's a few good ones:

 

Korg Polysix- no sustain pedal input

 

Yamaha Motif ES- compact flash card nearly obsolete when product came to market

 

Kurzweil PC3- xD card (required for OS updates) nearly obsolete when product came to market/no USB memory support

 

Yamaha CP300- abysmal EP's

 

 

It does seem odd that the CP4 may have less controller functionality than the CP5 but as AnotherScott said there'll be time to complain after we see the real feature set.

 

Greg

[Theo Verelst]

... Glass half full. ;-)

 

But with which substance?

[Dana.]

Yamaha CP300- abysmal EP's

I don't agree. Actually, I think they're pretty good -- definitely superior to what's in the CP33 and P series.

[Bif_]

Yamaha CP300- abysmal EP's

I don't agree. Actually, I think they're pretty good -- definitely superior to what's in the CP33 and P series.

 

Yikes! My problem is the radical velocity switching between samples.

 

I feel like Yamaha just said "yeah, those will be good enough". The CP300 AP is so playable. Doesn't make sense for a 'Stage Piano' to not have primo EP's too.

 

 

[Dana.]

Yikes! My problem is the radical velocity switching between samples.

 

I feel like Yamaha just said "yeah, those will be good enough". The CP300 AP is so playable. Doesn't make sense for a 'Stage Piano' to not have primo EP's too.

 

I think that's a fair assessment, and in fairness to Yamaha, they upped their EP game bigtime with the CP1/CP5, which, IMO, have primo EPs. I expect the ones in the CP4 will follow suit.

[BRW]

Sometimes I just fail to understand the decisions that are made dusting product development.

 

Here's a few good ones:

 

Motif XS - the decision not to support all the PLG plug-in boards people had collected for the ES

 

Fantom-G - the decision not to support SRX plug-in boards people had collected for the Fantom-X (and XV racks)...and bringing out a completely new format, ARX, which faded just after three cards.

[AnotherScott]

Motif XS - the decision not to support all the PLG plug-in boards people had collected for the ES

PLG cards weren't selling anymore. So Yamaha probably looked at what it would cost to add PLG card support to the XS versus how many sales they would lose by not including it... and I have a feeling they made the right choice, from a business perspective.

 

Though considering that the worst thing about the PLG cards was the kludgey interface, it would have been interesting to see if they could have taken advantage of the large screen of the XS to come up with a smoother integration of the technology. Though also, from what I understand, supporting the PLG cards in the XS would not have been trivial, as it wasn't built on the ES architecture, but was more of a ground-up redesign.

 

Luckily, today you can pick up a used Motif Rack ES pretty inexpensively, and put your PLG cards in that. Put that on a new MOXF and you have pretty much the whole Yamaha Motif series library in a lightweight, well priced package.

[Sam Mullins]

Mod/wheel could be next to the controls , lower to the keys if technically possible (see my mockup picture). It would free up the entire upper part of the instrument and is also more consistent in design esthetics. Apple would have put them there ;-)

 

Apple would have eliminated the mod/pitch wheels (as unnecessary as cursor keys) and made you use a mouse instead.

[JeffLearman]

Korg Polysix- no sustain pedal input

No kidding? I always regretted not getting a polysix, but lack of sustain would have been a serious disappointment. I guess I don't regret it so much, now.

[Bif_]

Korg Polysix- no sustain pedal input

No kidding? I always regretted not getting a polysix, but lack of sustain would have been a serious disappointment. I guess I don't regret it so much, now.

 

No kidding!!

 

I read the story somewhere not terribly long ago from one of the American engineers involved in the project. They had a list of 10 or so things they wanted to include (one of them the sustain pedal) and the head cheese from Korg in Japan slashed through nearly everything on the list. Sustain pedal didn't survive. Hard to believe but true.

[Theo Verelst]

Sorry, must have been really jet lagged, it's this Friday, September 12 that the website for the CP4 will be opened..

 

I hadn't remembered the time there'd be demo vids, but I had put the stuff on, made some coffee, and thought "let's hit it!" somewhere monday morning, because those sounds are interesting, and probably allow various tunings that may mix well. The CP5 is still 2200+ euro in EU, so the importation taxes or market make me not think: hey maybe something cool and cheap is coming up.

 

T

 

[orangefunk]

I think its a great price for what is supposed to be the CP1 replacement. Can't wait to try it.... hope the Rhodes sounds are good on it... with no velocity switching...

 

Great that it weighs the same as a 73 key SV1... wonder how they did that!?

 

[Dana.]

Can't wait to try it.... hope the Rhodes sounds are good on it... with no velocity switching...

I don't recall hearing any obvious velocity switching when I've played the CP1/CP5's Rhodes sounds, and I've played them many times. Perhaps Busch can confirm; I'm sure he did more critical listening when he had the CP1.

[scales]

This is torture... I just ordered a CP-5 and it arrived today. I haven't even taken it out of the box and then I saw this thread. I have 30 days to return it. I'll have to eat the shipping but it might be worth it for the 16 less pounds.

[JFP]

These are bad times for dealerships. They must be anxiously looking at stage piano's sold the in last 30 days and keep fingers crossed people don't start sending them back or cancel orders now that new gear is being released. Times we're already tough. Hope the manufactures compensate them in some ways, like stock protection rebates.

[Bif_]

This is torture... I just ordered a CP-5 and it arrived today.

 

If the $$ are anything close going from the 5 to the 4, I'd wait for the 4.

[Aidan]

This is torture... I just ordered a CP-5 and it arrived today.

 

If the $$ are anything close going from the 5 to the 4, I'd wait for the 4.

 

Sadly (for the store, anyway) +1

[Athan Billias]

Can't wait to try it.... hope the Rhodes sounds are good on it... with no velocity switching...

I don't recall hearing any obvious velocity switching when I've played the CP1/CP5's Rhodes sounds, and I've played them many times. Perhaps Busch can confirm; I'm sure he did more critical listening when he had the CP1.

 

We don't think you will be disappointed, the SCM on the EP sounds does eliminate any velocity switches.

[Athan Billias]

Let's make a stage piano with four zones

- Yeh ! Good idea; let's give it four faders then

- No no no no, too expensive (says guy in suit); two faders thats more than enough !

- Ah...come on... give us the faders - we need them

- Ok ok ok, we'll give you three; but that's the max we can do. Otherwise we go bankrupt and the CP production cost will soar (an extra $ 3 dollar cents)..

 

Although entertaining, this not really the way we make decisions. The basic reason that there are three faders is that there are three internal parts so there is a fader for the Main, Layer and Split sounds.

 

The CP5 had four internal parts. And four knobs to control them. When interviewing CP5 users, there were several main comments. People preferred faders to knobs for controlling volume. Also very, very few people actually layered anything on their left hand, using the LH exclusively for bass. Our market research also said that the vast majority of people do not connect their stage pianos to anything and actually use the CP series on stage by itself as their main and only keyboard. If we put a fourth fader on the unit for a majority of people it would not be a useful feature and be confusing because three of the faders controlled internal sounds and one did not do anything for most users.

 

We try to be diligent in listening to end users when designing products and provide the most reasonable solution for the largest target user group.

 

By the way, you can set the three Faders to control three zones and use a foot controller to control the other.

[Mike Martin]

Korg Polysix- no sustain pedal input

No kidding? I always regretted not getting a polysix, but lack of sustain would have been a serious disappointment. I guess I don't regret it so much, now.

 

The MIDI Retrofit kit I have on mine adds a sustain pedal input.

[Dana.]

Athan,

 

To my knowledge, Yamaha has never offered a proper upright sample. Sometimes a grand is too big; sometimes you want a "character piano." Nord currently offers excellent samples of numerous brands of uprights. What's the likelihood of Yamaha offering a U5 (or similar) sample in the future? I think most users would find this to be a welcome addition.

[AnotherScott]

When interviewing CP5 users, there were several main comments...We try to be diligent in listening to end users when designing products

What I want to know is, how do you get on the list of folk to be interviewed? ;-) I have quite a few suggestions I'd love to make to the designers of the MOX! Really, it's a great board, and I'm looking forward to replacing it with a MOXF, but there are a number of things about it that I think were, let's say, questionable design decisions... things I think could have been substantially improved, mostly things that are interface related and wouldn't require any change to the hardware at all, but would make a big difference in ease and usability.

[voxpops]

When interviewing CP5 users, there were several main comments...We try to be diligent in listening to end users when designing products

What I want to know is, how do you get on the list of folk to be interviewed? ;-) I have quite a few suggestions I'd love to make to the designers of the MOX! Really, it's a great board, and I'm looking forward to replacing it with a MOXF, but there are a number of things about it that I think were, let's say, questionable design decisions... things I think could have been substantially improved, mostly things that are interface related and wouldn't require any change to the hardware at all, but would make a big difference in ease and usability.

 

I think that the "focus group" base must be pretty small for most manufacturers, otherwise the decisions they make would probably be somewhat different. I can see what Athan's talking about with regard to the changes made for the CP4, but then that brings up the question of why the CP5 was designed the way it was in the first place: who wanted a convoluted interface, for example, or to haul 55lbs? But of course it's not just Yamaha that makes head-scratching decisions sometimes, so I agree that it would be nice if they all trawled their net a little wider when searching for input.

[LX88]

I agree with the above post. I just could not do 55 lbs. at this stage in my life. So I went with a 37 lb. Roland that I have been actually quite happy with.

 

And then there was the fact that Yamaha simply would not put a usable electric piano together with something like the CP33. You talk about head scratching...I could never understand. I certainly wasn't going to haul an 88 key Motif.

 

Hopefully those days are long gone. I am looking forward to hearing the CP4.

 

 

[voxpops]

, but then that brings up the question of why the CP5 was designed the way it was in the first place: who wanted a convoluted interface, for example, or to haul 55lbs? .

 

I think the fact that it was *only* 55 lbs and basically replaced the 72 lb. CP300, it looked like a lightweight in comparison. In addition, we were all 5 years younger too.

 

Yes, I thought about the change in weight from the CP300, but then I also thought about the change from the (similarly speakerless) sub-40lbs CP33!

 

 

[AnotherScott]

that brings up the question of why the CP5 was designed the way it was in the first place: who wanted a convoluted interface, for example, or to haul 55lbs?

Interesting point. So maybe the CP5 was internally designed as a new platform without user input, and then when it didn't sell as well as hoped, they did focus groups to find out why, and that led to the CP4. Maybe they wouldn't do the same kind of focus group on something like a MOX which sells extremely well just as it is. But boy, it frustrates me that, as good as it is, I think it could easily be a whole lot better. (We'll see if the MOXF has any pleasant surprises in this area...)

[orangefunk]

, but then that brings up the question of why the CP5 was designed the way it was in the first place: who wanted a convoluted interface, for example, or to haul 55lbs? .

 

I think the fact that it was *only* 55 lbs and basically replaced the 72 lb. CP300, it looked like a lightweight in comparison. In addition, we were all 5 years younger too.

 

Maybe we could make a "Law of Ferris" kind of rule here....

 

base weight of some 80s behemoth - (current age x some quotient (to be debated here))